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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars Galaxies: Editorial: Audience Alienation

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381 posts found
  viadi

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/06
Posts: 817

Most good judgement comes from experience.
Most experience comes from bad judgement.

6/13/06 8:16:54 AM#21

its a shame that the drive for more customer drove everyone involved (vets) away and killed what could have been what wow was had only they thought about the game rather than the cash we would not be having this conversation today

nice story and well wrote thanks MMORPG.com

Tin Foil hats dont work.. its all a conspiracy

  Clattuc

Novice Member

Joined: 4/04/05
Posts: 165

6/13/06 8:18:04 AM#22
This excellent editorial is one of the few times I can remember MMORPG.COM showing some backbone when it comes to Sony.  Long overdue and well done.  Of course if it had appeared on the SWG Forums it would have been deleted as unconstructive and not "fun" :)

The sad fact is that although many other gaming companies will learn important lessons from the SWG debacle, SOE themselves can't see it and won't learn.  They had no plan and no clue; they still have no plan and no clue.  Some day the unit will be shut down, broken up, and/or sold to another company, with all new management.  Only then will the SOE Curse be lifted.
  auntisocial

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/06
Posts: 120

6/13/06 8:18:44 AM#23

Thank you for this very fine article. 

Aunti

  dulcenea

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/05
Posts: 18

6/13/06 8:18:54 AM#24

Very well said.

I don't know why nearly everyone but the SOE brass can see and understand that the CU2 was a bad idea (over the planned rebalance) and that the NGE was a disaster, and that the best way to fix the hate is to give the people (CUSTOMERS) what they want.

I played from beta through the first two years but when the CU2 came out, the addition of levels to my beloved SWG was the deal-breaker for me. Right now I'm not playing any MMORPG because nothing appeals to me enough to spend the money and time on. And I'm certainly never giving SOE my money for any other game again after what they've done to SWG and their customers in these last years.

And yet, if they were to bring back pre-CU and give us the orginally planned rebalance, I have to admit that I'd be back in the game in a heartbeat. With bells on.

*sigh* When will SOE ever learn? My fear? Never.

  freethinker

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/04
Posts: 779

6/13/06 8:19:27 AM#25
that opinion was both star warsy and iconic. well done. 

==========================

  Daveydje

Novice Member

Joined: 6/21/05
Posts: 12

6/13/06 8:20:07 AM#26

Originally posted by Amathe

I beta tested this game and played it for 6-9 months after release. This article is right (though there were other major problems).

Never in my life have I experienced such arrogance as with SOE and SWG.


Yeh... the arrogance drove me away eventually too. I left initally because of that... stuck my head back in for the CU... left... Then again for the NGE... and left for the last time... Theres only so much a person can take... only so many times you can get slapped in the face, before you decide the relationship isn't worth it... ;)
  Drinkman

Novice Member

Joined: 5/03/06
Posts: 2

6/13/06 8:21:44 AM#27

Very well put. The sad part is they are still added to the confusion with another combat change.

I just wish that SOE will admit that they messed up and just rollback to pre-NGE or pre-CU.

  tvalentine

Novice Member

Joined: 4/01/06
Posts: 4234

“The things you own end up owning you.” -Tyler Durden

6/13/06 8:22:24 AM#28

Awsome. it is about time someone voiced our opinions. You took the vets opinion and put it through a megaphone THANK YU SO MUCH. thats why i like this site, these people listen to you and voice it.

Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -

  royalpenalty

Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/06
Posts: 314

its hard to have an intelligent discussioin about something as stupid as the NGE...

6/13/06 8:34:19 AM#29
this is precisely what we veterans have been telling SOE for a year now.  obviously it fell on deaf ears, and now the game with more potential for success than any other is in its death throws.

SWG ADDICT...clean since the NGE

  lyndonuk

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/04
Posts: 10

6/13/06 8:35:10 AM#30
Being very blunt and honest here... (be nice for SoE to really take this on board)

I have played or beta tested 25+ MMOGs since 2000, EQ was my main game for 4 years, EQ2 on and off since launch, played MxO and SWG. I love SoE's games but I hate them as a company. Why?....

1) SoE can't seem to write a graphics engine to save their lives. Their games are the most laggiest out there. Even Guild Wars (which is free) has prettier low lag graphics.

2) Whenever SoE patch they always manage to mess up half a dozen other things, or the patch simply doesn't solve the issues it claims it does. This has almost become a joke within the community. Many wonder if SoE progammers are paid by the bug.

3) Yes running an MMOG is a business, but no other MMOG company so evidently puts $$$ ahead of the game. Most notable example of this was the early release of EQ2 to beat WoW to some $$$, even though most the beta community were screaming it wasn't ready. The money guys won over the dev team, and they have paid for that in the long run. The game MUST come first!

4) SoE meddle far too much, but they don't meddle to improve the game, they meddle to attract more subscribers. Has it ever worked for them? No! Learn this lesson.

5) 'Customer Care' - SoE have NO idea what this term means, in fact they probably don't even know what the words mean on their own!

6) Timesinks and Anality. SoE really seem to think that Work=Fun. Their games are full of tedium, timesinks and pure anal ways of doing things. For example - the crafting system in EQ2, probably the most anal thing I have seen in any MMOG ever!

7) No effort to prevent or clean-up 'out of theme' names or names that make phrases. Why go to all the effort to create a wonderfully immersive world like EQ2 and then let idiots call their characters stupid retarded names like 'Askificare Whyshouldi'... I mean, COME ON! Vanguard has a superb naming policy, use it for all your games.

SoE read and learn!
  Erillion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/25/04
Posts: 1963

6/13/06 8:35:55 AM#31

Excellent article -

no flamefest too , a refreshing change !

Have fun

Erillion

  royalpenalty

Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/06
Posts: 314

its hard to have an intelligent discussioin about something as stupid as the NGE...

6/13/06 8:44:58 AM#32

Originally posted by lyndonuk
Being very blunt and honest here... (be nice for SoE to really take this on board)

I have played or beta tested 25+ MMOGs since 2000, EQ was my main game for 4 years, EQ2 on and off since launch, played MxO and SWG. I love SoE's games but I hate them as a company. Why?....

1) SoE can't seem to write a graphics engine to save their lives. Their games are the most laggiest out there. Even Guild Wars (which is free) has prettier low lag graphics.

2) Whenever SoE patch they always manage to mess up half a dozen other things, or the patch simply doesn't solve the issues it claims it does. This has almost become a joke within the community. Many wonder if SoE progammers are paid by the bug.

3) Yes running an MMOG is a business, but no other MMOG company so evidently puts $$$ ahead of the game. Most notable example of this was the early release of EQ2 to beat WoW to some $$$, even though most the beta community were screaming it wasn't ready. The money guys won over the dev team, and they have paid for that in the long run. The game MUST come first!

4) SoE meddle far too much, but they don't meddle to improve the game, they meddle to attract more subscribers. Has it ever worked for them? No! Learn this lesson.

5) 'Customer Care' - SoE have NO idea what this term means, in fact they probably don't even know what the words mean on their own!

6) Timesinks and Anality. SoE really seem to think that Work=Fun. Their games are full of tedium, timesinks and pure anal ways of doing things. For example - the crafting system in EQ2, probably the most anal thing I have seen in any MMOG ever!

7) No effort to prevent or clean-up 'out of theme' names or names that make phrases. Why go to all the effort to create a wonderfully immersive world like EQ2 and then let idiots call their characters stupid retarded names like 'Askificare Whyshouldi'... I mean, COME ON! Vanguard has a superb naming policy, use it for all your games.

SoE read and learn!

why would you care what someone's toon name is?  i had a Dancer/Musician on Wanderhome named Rapan Pillage.  got a few complaints and one day SOE deleted the last name.  never could understand why it bothered anyone.  just curious.

SWG ADDICT...clean since the NGE

  Fatbast

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/04
Posts: 4

6/13/06 8:45:43 AM#33

When SOE took the SWG licence they did so because at that time they were the number one MMO 'specialists' in the business thanks of course to Everquest.  However it is worth nothing that Everquest was at that point beginning to show some signs of weakening thanks to the arrival of titles such as Anarchy Online, Asherons Call 2, Earth and Beyond and a few others still sat on my shelf.

During their time at the number one spot the criticisms levelled at SOE had largely been a poor customer service experience and under that what we would deem the 'usual' bugs,balance and content.  Nothing spectacular.  Its worth noting however that the way that SOE handled these complaints was with an almost mind blowing arrogance.

You play the game or leave, your choice - pretty much how it went.

This was not confined to EQ.  Those that followed also appeared to follow this 'Dev Culture' by ignoring the player base, working to some unfathomable agenda, dodging requests for Test Servers and producing third rate content.

Then the cracks began to show.  Whilst games like AO and DaOC had problems of their own players were now letting go of thier characters and slowly subs were falling.  For all thier faults the new companys were at least engaging thier players on the forums - AO especially worked hard after a disasterous launch to prove itself worthy to the cash paying public.

SOE released SWG as the biggest thing since sliced bread - And why not? A title as hot as Star Wars deserves a fanfare. What they did not do was alter their approach to the playerbase.

Even with the eventual demise of AC2 / Earth and Beyond and many "In production games" SOE decided to ignore the warning signs that the public was clearly able to hit that cancel subscription button.

When WoW hit it was as biggest event in MMO's. Even with the usual gamut of release issues, this was the 'something' else that people had been waiting for.  The exodos from other titles must have been felt across the MMO world and caused some serious re-thinks on the financial planning boards.  Buckle down, work on content and customer service and weather the storm by maintaining a quality product.

SOE took a different strategem.  In a fell swoop they REMOVED classes that some players had been developing since release day. They reduced the work that the hardcore few had put in to obtain the legendary Jedi status (You are our only hope Luke?) and instituted a "push this button to become a Jedi" option.  They had the audacity to damand payment for expansions that were virtually required to level the upper band of the classes (Mustafar) and the content was, probably SOEs most consistent feature - bugged to high hell.

The end result was what you see now. Empty cities, Player cities turning to dust and a server screen that has  LOW LOW LOW LOW LOW LOW across the board.

On the horizon are Vanguard, Pirates of the Burning Sea, Gods and Heroes, WoW Exp number 1 and a host of Niche games....good news for gamers everywhere.

Not so good for SOE.

In short you reap what you sow.  Sony is gathering the harvest of a disrespectful and arrogant attitude to the very people that feed and clothe its employees. 

Makes me feel all warm inside.

  Mythor

Novice Member

Joined: 3/09/04
Posts: 7

6/13/06 8:51:52 AM#34
I can't believe how many pats on the back this article is getting for the writer.
Everything in it was said far more eloquently any number of times 4-5 months ago when it became clear the NGE was a dud. The writing was on the wall 3 months ago as the servers became ghost towns and you could go an entire play session and only see one other person in your travels.

This article is at least 2 months too late, and that's being kind.
It really should have been saved and posted as part of a post-mortem in the inevitable: "Star Wars Galaxies: How To Successfully Launch A Game And Still Be Judged A Failure" article for when the servers are shut down at the end of the year.
  Clattuc

Novice Member

Joined: 4/04/05
Posts: 165

6/13/06 9:03:11 AM#35
The graphics engine dates from 2000.  For its time it was state of the art.  If you have a good enough graphics card, it still looks good.  Compared to some of these newer games like Dark & Light and Oblivion it looks REAL good.  And for its primary function of drawing a realistic Star Wars gameworld, it was and still is excellent.

Unfortunately, in their panicky dumbing-down of the game world into a sort of Super Mario Jedi's experience, SOE added a lot of unrealistic particle and flash effects that place a heavy burden on the engine and make it show its age.

How wonderful it would have been if SOE had held the gameplay model stable and focused its resources on a state of the art graphics engine revamp!  Imagine playing that good original game with twice the visual realism.  Oh well, maybe next title.
  defafnyr

Novice Member

Joined: 6/28/04
Posts: 83

Don''t make me break out my flying monkeys.

6/13/06 9:05:12 AM#36
Very good article.  Nailed it.
  lilmitch34

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 35

6/13/06 9:10:09 AM#37
I dont agree that the graphics were that well done, when it came out they were really good but when I do a free 10 day trial and my game lags bad with bad graphics while I can play games like Everquest 2 without any problems at all, theres no way Im playing.  I would have no problem opening up a account if they overhauled there graphics.
  MGRex

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/04
Posts: 1

6/13/06 9:12:02 AM#38

It is sad that they didnt bother paying more attention to us verteran's,  I honestly think the game would come back to its former glory if they just went back to what it was in the Original (Pre-CU) System.  The game was unique and wasnt like any other MMO out there.  Now its more like "The Clone Wars"  if anything, since everyone is the same.  If Sony Online Entertainment(SoE) or Lucasarts pay attention to this...then they should learn what thier mistakes are.  They lost thier subscriptions because of what they did to the game.  And I agree with what he said.  This is probably one of the best worded ways I've seen it said too.  Good Job! 

  duncan_922

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 1673

Respect my authority!

6/13/06 9:20:21 AM#39
Excellent Editorial!  It's only all that the veterans of this game have been saying since the CU!

SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!

  VMaxxx

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/05
Posts: 23

6/13/06 9:23:38 AM#40

Yeah, 2 year sub here.  They had me at every expansion, until the NGE.  I put up with the CUs, and they were "survivable", but when I unlocked my jedi and they gave it away for nothing, and then they killed both my kid's Creature Handlers that pretty much nailed the coffin for me.  I tried to come back, I converted on of my alts, and it was a WoW clone.  If I wanted that, I'd have been playing WoW.  They should have come out with an alternate WoW clone called Star Wars Battlefield MMO and made it all PVP or something and left the original alone for the non-button mashers.

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