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Star Wars Galaxies

Star Wars Galaxies 

SWG Veteran Refuge  » The Official "We're Angry at SOE" thread

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689 posts found
  TeknoBug

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/07
Posts: 2166

11/30/07 7:05:43 AM#621

The problem with that is that they shouldn't have delivered it at all, they should have just stuck with the combat upgrade that was actually improving faster than it took the NGE to improve.


  Daboose

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/07
Posts: 2

12/28/07 5:52:12 PM#622

Too bad we can't just ask for the old game, and get a group of extremely skilled programmers, and restart the game to get it back up and running. Make is F2P or something. The only problem with that would be they would say no because they wouldn't want to lose the few customers they had.

  MSCav

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/05
Posts: 160

2/09/08 7:08:07 PM#623

Man, I miss this game!!!  SOE really screwed this game with the CU and then the NGE!

 

Whats that feel like SOE?  Going from like 300,000 players to 200?  You idiots lol

  o0unknown0o

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/06
Posts: 22

3/24/08 3:50:17 PM#624

I miss you, Pre-CU SWG :'(

o0unknown0o Xfire Miniprofile
  hipiap

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/06
Posts: 450

Don't Prove Mark Twain correct by opening your mouth and removing Doubt.

4/16/08 4:21:12 PM#625

For the readers; Paragraph 2 from the EULA of SW:G  :

 

2. To play the Game, you must: (i) purchase the Software (as defined below in Paragraph 7) for Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided and any expansion packs you wish to play ; (ii) have a fully paid Account; (iii) have a valid credit card (or, if we wish to make it available, a paid game card); and (iv) have an Internet connection (which we do not provide or pay for) to access your Account. In addition to any fees described herein, you are responsible for paying all applicable taxes (including those we are not required to collect) and for all hardware, software, service and other costs you incur to access your Account. Neither this Agreement nor your Account entitles you to any subsequent releases of the Game and/or the Software, any expansion packs nor similar ancillary products. You understand that we may update or otherwise enhance the Game and/or the Software at any time and in doing so incur no obligation to furnish such updates to you pursuant to this Agreement. You understand that online games evolve over time and, accordingly, system requirements to play the Game may change over time.

 

 

Put in Bold to be helpful.

MMO History: 2528 days in SW:G

  ArcAngel3

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/06
Posts: 2941

Momento Mori

4/16/08 11:09:01 PM#626

 

Originally posted by hipiap

For the readers; Paragraph 2 from the EULA of SW:G  :

 

2. To play the Game, you must: (i) purchase the Software (as defined below in Paragraph 7) for Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided and any expansion packs you wish to play ; (ii) have a fully paid Account; (iii) have a valid credit card (or, if we wish to make it available, a paid game card); and (iv) have an Internet connection (which we do not provide or pay for) to access your Account. In addition to any fees described herein, you are responsible for paying all applicable taxes (including those we are not required to collect) and for all hardware, software, service and other costs you incur to access your Account. Neither this Agreement nor your Account entitles you to any subsequent releases of the Game and/or the Software, any expansion packs nor similar ancillary products. You understand that we may update or otherwise enhance the Game and/or the Software at any time and in doing so incur no obligation to furnish such updates to you pursuant to this Agreement. You understand that online games evolve over time and, accordingly, system requirements to play the Game may change over time.

 

 

Put in Bold to be helpful.

SOE's definition of "update or otherwise enhance":

 

delete all your progress, delete your mastered professions, render you unable to interact with your pets, make all your crafted items useless, delete the professions that received new items and pets in the expansion you just paid for yesterday, render movement, chat and combat broken all at the same time.

Update and enhance: I don't think these words mean what you think they mean SOE.

By the way, where's the part of the EULA that says it's not valid in some jurisdictions?  You know, the ones that frown on taking money for one thing and then delivering something else.

  jakin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/27/04
Posts: 235

4/17/08 1:14:32 PM#627

Originally posted by hipiap

For the readers; Paragraph 2 from the EULA of SW:G  :

 

2. To play the Game, you must: (i) purchase the Software (as defined below in Paragraph 7) for Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided and any expansion packs you wish to play ; (ii) have a fully paid Account; (iii) have a valid credit card (or, if we wish to make it available, a paid game card); and (iv) have an Internet connection (which we do not provide or pay for) to access your Account. In addition to any fees described herein, you are responsible for paying all applicable taxes (including those we are not required to collect) and for all hardware, software, service and other costs you incur to access your Account. Neither this Agreement nor your Account entitles you to any subsequent releases of the Game and/or the Software, any expansion packs nor similar ancillary products. You understand that we may update or otherwise enhance the Game and/or the Software at any time and in doing so incur no obligation to furnish such updates to you pursuant to this Agreement. You understand that online games evolve over time and, accordingly, system requirements to play the Game may change over time.

 

 

Put in Bold to be helpful.

FWIW the part you're bolding has nothing to do with the point you're trying to make.

That part of the EULA simply states that SOE is under no legal obligation to provide a paying customer with any updates or enhancements they make - regardless of the fact that the customer is already paying for the service.  For instance - should they produce an enhanced graphical engine they have no obligation to provide that upgrade for free, they are within their rights to charge for it.

The second element of the para allows for such graphical upgrades (again as an example) and does not warrant that they will honour the current system requirements throughout the lifetime of the product.

Nothing in that para provides for the scope of change that the CU / NGE actually visited on their players.  It was unprecedented at the time and (given the success of the move) will likely not be repeated within the genre at any time in the foreseeable future.

  Betaguy

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2525

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

4/26/08 3:03:16 AM#628
I'll throw my anger in the pile /angry

  mishkof

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/28/08
Posts: 2

4/27/08 11:42:15 PM#629

Sorta forgot about this game. Just got done watching Episode VI.

/signed

Have been a (somewhat) happy customer of Eve for the last 2.5 years. Would have been SWG if it wasnt for the NGE.

  Arsani

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 1

5/02/08 2:24:48 PM#630

Hello, my name is 'Sani and I am a Smuggler.  And that pretty much explains why I am posting in this thread.

  Lateris

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/05
Posts: 1797

~perspective~

5/08/08 12:00:40 PM#631

I am done with SOE products for good. I have taken my money to CCP, Turbine, and elsewhere. I will never log in to the mier of SWG. Period.  I would rather drive my A4 into the ocean than subscribe to SWG. The way SOE treats their fanbase is wrong. They way items gets nerfed is lame. The NGE and the engine of SWG is still broken. Combat is still broken. Targeting is still broken. Quests are still broken. Collision is still boken. SWG is still broken. All that is left are mostly hicks, racists,  meth heads, drunks, and mental insurance cases with a very small number of decent human beings left.

I am a vet and I refuse to give you my money SOE. And I had 5 accounts going at once back in the day. 2 years of 1800.00 gone. Never to recover. You have also lost 3,000,000 a month since the NGE. Way to go Lucas Arts and SOE. 

 

And now I move on as a consumer, a journalist., word of mouth, and an ex star wars fan. My money goes elsewhere.  

  ArcAngel3

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/06
Posts: 2941

Momento Mori

5/14/08 11:41:12 PM#632
Originally posted by Lateris

I am done with SOE products for good. I have taken my money to CCP, Turbine, and elsewhere. I will never log in to the mier of SWG. Period.  I would rather drive my A4 into the ocean than subscribe to SWG. The way SOE treats their fanbase is wrong. They way items gets nerfed is lame. The NGE and the engine of SWG is still broken. Combat is still broken. Targeting is still broken. Quests are still broken. Collision is still boken. SWG is still broken. All that is left are mostly hicks, racists,  meth heads, drunks, and mental insurance cases with a very small number of decent human beings left.

I am a vet and I refuse to give you my money SOE. And I had 5 accounts going at once back in the day. 2 years of 1800.00 gone. Never to recover. You have also lost 3,000,000 a month since the NGE. Way to go Lucas Arts and SOE. 

 

And now I move on as a consumer, a journalist., word of mouth, and an ex star wars fan. My money goes elsewhere.  

 

  User Deleted
6/12/08 11:19:13 AM#633

 Lost Love 

     Still, after all this time, when I think of SWG's NGE I get a pain in my chest.  I don't think this pain will ever go away.  Seriously, it's a deep feeling of lose and betrayal, one that goes deep and cunsumes my thoughts with sorrow and remorse.  Many people would just roll thier eyes and say "whatever", but that's only becuase they didn't share what myself, and many others shared. 

LOVE for the game.

     I wonder if a lawyer could force them to bring back Pre-NGE on the grounds of mental and emotional anquish. The EULA does say that the owning parties  have the right to change the game as they see fit, however: to what extent?

     Please SOE bring back some servers for the Vets (Pre-Nge Players).  I'll even deal with the bugs, minimum support, increase monthly costs, whatever it takes to make this pain go away, I can't stand it anymore.

  kobie173

Novice Member

Joined: 8/05/06
Posts: 2240

7/04/08 9:58:15 PM#634
Originally posted by Uzleb

 Lost Love 

     Still, after all this time, when I think of SWG's NGE I get a pain in my chest.  I don't think this pain will ever go away.  Seriously, it's a deep feeling of lose and betrayal, one that goes deep and cunsumes my thoughts with sorrow and remorse.  Many people would just roll thier eyes and say "whatever", but that's only becuase they didn't share what myself, and many others shared. 

LOVE for the game.

     I wonder if a lawyer could force them to bring back Pre-NGE on the grounds of mental and emotional anquish. The EULA does say that the owning parties  have the right to change the game as they see fit, however: to what extent?

     Please SOE bring back some servers for the Vets (Pre-Nge Players).  I'll even deal with the bugs, minimum support, increase monthly costs, whatever it takes to make this pain go away, I can't stand it anymore.


 

Hey, I loved it too. But if you're talking about something that "consumes your thoughts with sorrow," you might want to seek some kind of therapy. Seriously, that is not healthy.

So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.

  Enowa

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/06
Posts: 18

7/13/08 2:08:44 PM#635

I think if your in business no matter how much money you've made. You really do need to listen to your base. eg. your fans the ppl that shovel there money into your product. their have been way to many rumors about why the leveling system etc has gone and the new shit game was created. I just know that soe does ruin everything. I was kinda stoked about the cross platform mmorpg dc comics until I heard soe is getting it. I stopped playing the game for 2 years almost. and just got back in.. sadly I only lasted 2 weeks. I am not sure if I am bias b/c I just lost the love of the game, just completly bored with all mmorpgs right now. mainly b/c their isn't a hardcore rp base in them now days.. but I am so over and done with this giant P.O.S. CALLED GALAXIES..

  Obee

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/06
Posts: 1560

7/13/08 2:25:13 PM#636
Originally posted by Enowa

I think if your in business no matter how much money you've made. You really do need to listen to your base. eg. your fans the ppl that shovel there money into your product. their have been way to many rumors about why the leveling system etc has gone and the new shit game was created. I just know that soe does ruin everything. I was kinda stoked about the cross platform mmorpg dc comics until I heard soe is getting it. I stopped playing the game for 2 years almost. and just got back in.. sadly I only lasted 2 weeks. I am not sure if I am bias b/c I just lost the love of the game, just completly bored with all mmorpgs right now. mainly b/c their isn't a hardcore rp base in them now days.. but I am so over and done with this giant P.O.S. CALLED GALAXIES..

 

I posted this before in a different thread, but SOE could greatly improve as a company without actually listening to their customers.  They just need to stop treating their customers as their enemy.  It wouldn't improve the crap they produce, but it would make a lot more people willing to at least give their crap a chance.  As it is, there is a significant number of former SOE customers that are not likely to be SOE customers in the future, even if SOE somehow manages to stumble their way to making a game that is worth playing.

SOE is a company that employs people that are openly hostile towards their customers.  The only reason SOE still has any customers is that there are people who are willing to be treated like crap and pay for the privilege.  At any professionally ran company, employees who treat their customers the way many of SOE's employees do would be looking for different jobs.  The problem is, the hostility is from the top down, so nothing will be done to change it until there is a major change in SOE's management personnel.

 

  stinney

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/08
Posts: 36

7/16/08 10:04:25 AM#637

Yes, years on I am still angry at SOE.

I live in the UK and a guildmate I met in SWG came over for my wedding. The friendships made in SWG went far beyond bytes and pixels.

SOE trashed that in a gamble to make more money.

 

Incidently, how is the the NGE working out for you money wise? ROFL!!!

 

Knowing that SOE are making less money with the NGE gives me a little bit of satisfaction.

I hate SOE, and I will only give them more money IF they bring back pre-CU and start fixing the bugs.

Other than that, they can kiss my ass, right on the crack.

  Nanachub

Novice Member

Joined: 4/29/08
Posts: 63

8/03/08 5:22:19 PM#638

Yep... still angry but its been a blast watching them cling on with all their will and to hammer the NGE down everyones throats and fail.

Shame on you

"Obi-Wan Kenobi: We were decieved by a lie; we all were. It appears that SOE is behind everything, including the NGE! After the death of CU, the NGE became their new apprentice."

  Rabenwolf

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/06
Posts: 1483

8/17/08 1:30:01 PM#639

I have a few things to say about SWG and what SOE had to do. First, you have to remember at the time SOE was heavily influenced by Movie Execs, and you cannot treat an MMORPG like a film. You can re-edit a film to make it better or tell a less confusing story... but it doesnt really work that way with mmorpgs.

That said. A few things happened that is not soley SOE's fault, but a fault within the entire gaming industry. First, Lucas Arts was sucking up a lot of the profits, followed by the massive success of World of Warcraft, SWG was failing to meet the required profits between what Lucas Arts was getting and SOE. Second, SWG devs made it quite clear that they do make changes based on the community. Casual gamers complained that the game was too complicated, while the non casual gamers complained it wasnt free enough. Casual players wanted that instant action and satisfaction... in my opinion they are the bane for most depth reliant game genres.

Now SOE and LA had to make a choice, they were not making enough profits, the casual gamers were tooting for changes, and at the time developers in the video game industry believed that simplicity is the same as accessibility, sadly this is still happening to this day because the "casual" gamer demands that they should get everything spoon fed to them, easy and quickly because they do not want to or cannot spend the time to achieve something. A steep learning curve, patience, and vast possibilities are the bane of this player group.

All these factors effected the decision SOE had to make, though it backfired. Imagine a group of people wanting change in the government of a certain country they wanted to live in. That government makes those changes to accomidate them, and in turn they return the favor of having their demands met by moving to a different country altogether. They always want something, and when they get it, they lose interest fast.This hurts the people who are the exact opposite, and represent the opposition to "casual gaming" game mechanics.

So to review:

1. SWG wasnt making an acceptable profit for Lucas Arts and SOE, especially when WoW proved to be a massive success, sending ripples of change through out the gaming industry.( SOE at the time was still part of Sony's Movie studio influence. All major movie studios own or run gaming branches now, Sony like the others were still figuring out to make it work as the industry of interactive entertainment was still evolving.}

2. SWG was open to the communities demands and sadly the Casual player base was the louder of the bunch alongside WoW's massive appeal to the same audience and its success, which SWG desperately needed.

3.  Developers confused Simplicity with Accessibility throughout the gaming industry, not just SOE, and it still happens to this day. It is the curse of Casual Gamer demands and the developers inability to figure out how to please everyone.

I cannot see how anyone can really hate SOE, when the real fault is found within the changing of the industry as a whole and the rising power of console born casual gamers and rising development cost.

Furthermore, Lucas Arts had more influence over the game's direction than Sony did, yet I do not see anyone really looking in their direction.

(""We really just needed to make the game a lot more accessible to a much broader player base," said Nancy MacIntyre, the game's senior director at LucasArts.

"There was [were] lots of reading, much too much, in the game. There was a lot of wandering around learning about different abilities. We really needed to give people the experience of being Han Solo or Luke Skywalker rather than being Uncle Owen, the moisture farmer. We wanted more instant gratification: kill, get treasure, repeat. We needed to give people more of an opportunity to be a part of what they have seen in the movies rather than something they had created themselves,")

Lack of required profits + Casual Gamers + Film influence  (via movie studios Lucas Arts and Sony) + WoW's success + changes in the game industry as a whole = The disaster that befell SWG. You cant just point at SOE and say they are the devil when theres so much more to it than that. SOE isnt flawless, but they are less to blame than these other factors as well as Lucas Arts, which felt the need for that change.

 

Hope this was educational.

 

  hipiap

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/06
Posts: 450

Don't Prove Mark Twain correct by opening your mouth and removing Doubt.

8/17/08 10:03:13 PM#640
Originally posted by Rabenwolf

I have a few things to say about SWG and what SOE had to do. First, you have to remember at the time SOE was heavily influenced by Movie Execs, and you cannot treat an MMORPG like a film. You can re-edit a film to make it better or tell a less confusing story... but it doesnt really work that way with mmorpgs.

That said. A few things happened that is not soley SOE's fault, but a fault within the entire gaming industry. First, Lucas Arts was sucking up a lot of the profits, followed by the massive success of World of Warcraft, SWG was failing to meet the required profits between what Lucas Arts was getting and SOE. Second, SWG devs made it quite clear that they do make changes based on the community. Casual gamers complained that the game was too complicated, while the non casual gamers complained it wasnt free enough. Casual players wanted that instant action and satisfaction... in my opinion they are the bane for most depth reliant game genres.

Now SOE and LA had to make a choice, they were not making enough profits, the casual gamers were tooting for changes, and at the time developers in the video game industry believed that simplicity is the same as accessibility, sadly this is still happening to this day because the "casual" gamer demands that they should get everything spoon fed to them, easy and quickly because they do not want to or cannot spend the time to achieve something. A steep learning curve, patience, and vast possibilities are the bane of this player group.

All these factors effected the decision SOE had to make, though it backfired. Imagine a group of people wanting change in the government of a certain country they wanted to live in. That government makes those changes to accomidate them, and in turn they return the favor of having their demands met by moving to a different country altogether. They always want something, and when they get it, they lose interest fast.This hurts the people who are the exact opposite, and represent the opposition to "casual gaming" game mechanics.

So to review:

1. SWG wasnt making an acceptable profit for Lucas Arts and SOE, especially when WoW proved to be a massive success, sending ripples of change through out the gaming industry.( SOE at the time was still part of Sony's Movie studio influence. All major movie studios own or run gaming branches now, Sony like the others were still figuring out to make it work as the industry of interactive entertainment was still evolving.}

2. SWG was open to the communities demands and sadly the Casual player base was the louder of the bunch alongside WoW's massive appeal to the same audience and its success, which SWG desperately needed.

3.  Developers confused Simplicity with Accessibility throughout the gaming industry, not just SOE, and it still happens to this day. It is the curse of Casual Gamer demands and the developers inability to figure out how to please everyone.

I cannot see how anyone can really hate SOE, when the real fault is found within the changing of the industry as a whole and the rising power of console born casual gamers and rising development cost.

Furthermore, Lucas Arts had more influence over the game's direction than Sony did, yet I do not see anyone really looking in their direction.

(""We really just needed to make the game a lot more accessible to a much broader player base," said Nancy MacIntyre, the game's senior director at LucasArts.

"There was [were] lots of reading, much too much, in the game. There was a lot of wandering around learning about different abilities. We really needed to give people the experience of being Han Solo or Luke Skywalker rather than being Uncle Owen, the moisture farmer. We wanted more instant gratification: kill, get treasure, repeat. We needed to give people more of an opportunity to be a part of what they have seen in the movies rather than something they had created themselves,")

Lack of required profits + Casual Gamers + Film influence  (via movie studios Lucas Arts and Sony) + WoW's success + changes in the game industry as a whole = The disaster that befell SWG. You cant just point at SOE and say they are the devil when theres so much more to it than that. SOE isnt flawless, but they are less to blame than these other factors as well as Lucas Arts, which felt the need for that change.

 

Hope this was educational.

 

I agree with everything you commented on.

 

But I have to add one thing to this...

 

It has been almost 3 years since the End of the CU era of SW:G.

At this point, anyone from before then has serious psychological issues if they are still ranting over OMG NGE FTL or crap like that.

 

Hope this was educational.

MMO History: 2528 days in SW:G

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