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Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes 

General Discussion  » Official "We're Angry about SOE" Thread

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323 posts found

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/05
Posts: 4551

The game isn’t designed to keep people playing." - Smed

NOW you realize that! - Shayde

6/04/06 2:18:44 PM#61
The reason $OE buggered SWG wasn't because they listened to the PLAYERS... but they listened to the EXIT INTERVIEWS of the people leaving and the FOCUS GROUPS filled with people who never played to find out where the game should go.

EW2 blows not because it isn't WoW... it's because after a complete revamp, it still blows.

But thanks for posting it thrice.

Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.

It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled :( - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me.
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/30/06
Posts: 5036

"The one you call messiah is a lie"--- Gary Numan

6/04/06 10:36:28 PM#62

I thought it was only the "vocal minority" that posted on forums, well it is according to $OE. So if they listened to the "vocal minority" and changed their product accordingly then they have fully earnt threads like these in multiple forums.

Also another failing of $OE is the fact that they don't play their own products, but admit publicly to playing and enjoying WoW. I play EVE and enjoy it, but if those DEVs at CCP said "Hey we all play WoW and really enjoy it, and we think they have some great ideas that could help our MMO" then they'd be crucified by the playerbase.

Still goodluck with Vanguard because you are gonna need it baby!

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"

CS Lewis


Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/06
Posts: 1372

6/05/06 1:07:00 PM#63

I think that while only a certain amount of gamers regularly post on forums, the percentage of active posters is high enough to represent a reasonably accurate sample of the customer-base. Saying that our views are in the minority simple because every single player doesn't post on the forums is like saying the president's 29% approval rating represents a minority opinion, because only a few thousand people are polled.

I also think it's funny how some of the posters here are saying that people come to the vanguard forums here just to complain about SOE. If you look at who is posting, you'll see that the anti-SOE sentiments are mainly coming from people who were already posting in the Vanguard forums before the SOE deal was announced.


Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 75

6/07/06 1:04:16 PM#64

Well here is a poster that has not posted in any of the Vanguard forums, and I have something to say about SOE.  Any game they lay their hands too, can no longer be called and RPG.  The only market SOE has ever been interested in is the power gamer.  If you dont like ganking people, if you dont like having to be power leveled just to play the game, if you dont like everyone wearing the same clothing because you have to have the best stats for your level, then SOE doesnt care what you think.

I was keeping an eye on Vanguard but I wasnt watching closely.  I dont know the details about how or when it happened but I can tell you that SOE is the reason I am not playing ANY MMORPGs at this time.  I am one of those old school RPG gamers that actually played EverQuest from the first month it launched.  EQ USED to be a good game.  It USED to be fun.  Then come the age of SOE.  Customer service?  just try it.  SOE has the absolute worst record when it comes to customer service.  They would rather nerf you, punt you, or ban you then actually deal with a problem you are having.

And for those of you playing EQ2, you folks dont really understand what and RPG is.  And for those of you playing WOW, you might as well just play console first person shooters, because WOW isnt even close to an RPG.  SOE is the reason all of the MMORPGs that are on the market right now have absolutely nothing to do with roleplaying.  Read the initials. MMORPS  Massively Multiplayer Online ROLE PLAYING GAME.  Not beat up your neighbor who happens to only be half your level so you can have his stuff or even worse, just because you can.  Not grind grind grind, loop hole to avoid the grind.  Not gear hunter, not uber bossy "this is about me and I dont care about you" game.  Sorry got off track a little.

Now that SOE ownes Vanguard I wont touch it with a ten foot pole.


Novice Member

Joined: 10/29/03
Posts: 926

6/07/06 3:53:18 PM#65
So, now it's Sony's fault that players (even in non-Sony games) don't role play? 


Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 75

6/07/06 6:02:59 PM#66

Well like an earlier post said, EQ was not the only game out at the time.  AC and UO were also online at the same time, in fact UO came out first.  And in the beginning it was PnP and MUD players that started playing MMORPGs.  When Sony took control of EQ, they already had a large player base from Console and FPS games.  Sony reworked EQ to make it more attractive to their player base.  That change effected the look and feel of every game that has come out since, because Sony did attract a very large population to EQ so everyone else followed the leader.

So yes I am saying that it was SOE that changed the design of MMORPGs.  I dont really like to play a RPG that has been butchered to attract ADD, attention hogging, instant gratafication, addrenaline junky, egotistical, me me me chair warriors with no respect for what RPG really means.  Yes I do blame it on SOE.


Novice Member

Joined: 10/29/03
Posts: 926

6/08/06 1:22:13 AM#67
Sony was actually in on Verant from the start. They had their hands in on EQ from the very begining. And I dare say, EQ was nearing it's peak when Sony fully brought Verant into the fold and turned it into SoE. By the time they started making the game easier and easier (PoP), the population had already peaked and other games were already hitting the market. And one of the big selling points of these new games is that they would take the hard parts (like level loss or corpse recoveries) out of the game. They were often marketed as easier than EQ. So, the rash of easier games weren't because they were following in EQ's footsteps (I actually remember seeing many accusations against SOE that they were taking those things from newer games), the rash of easier games came about from those whining that EQ was just too tiem consuming and they wanted everything now.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/26/04
Posts: 190

6/08/06 5:07:52 AM#68

Originally posted by Vendel

On another point, what is the compagny responsible for the most succesful mmorpg ever? what compagny worked to make the genre as popular as it is?

Blizzard (WoW), and before that NCSoft (Lineage).

Don't get me wrong, EQ did great things for the genre. But that is in the past.

SOE has been in a downward spiral since they did the original CU on SW:G. (Some) Players seem to have zero faith in anything that SOE is even remotely connected with. SOE have absolutely no regard for their customers. I was looking forward to V:SoH...right up until SOE became involved, I haven't even looked at the official site since that day. I will never again, in any way, shape or form give SOE any of my more money. Ever.

Look at it this way: you are a member of a gym and go there 3 times a week to do your thing. Then it gets bought out by a big chain who then proceed to remove the air conditioning, the vending machines, the excercise equipment and the trainers, all the while claiming it's what you want. Then they kick you in the face and say that even though /you/ weren't aware of it, that's what you really wanted. Would you stay a member of that gym? Would you ever go to another gym run by that company?

Or: you regularly fly between LA and New York on business. You always use the same carrier as you like the service they provide. They get bought out, replace all the stewardesses with new ones from Asia that have little or no understanding of the English language, they cut the seat size in half, do away with in-flight meals and entertainment then introduce new aircraft that tend to crash (all because they say it's what focus groups wanted). Would you carry on using that airline for that journey? Would you use that airline for any other flights?


Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/04
Posts: 457

6/09/06 2:29:29 PM#69

Ok, for starts, Age of Conan is being optimized to work with Windows Vista.  That's it.  It will also work with Windows XP.  It is not being developed by Microsoft Studios.

Funcom is the company that is developing it.  They developed the games Anarchy Online and The Longest Journey.  Anarchy Online, though a very rocky start, has developed it's own very loyal following.  I will admit that I don't play Anarchy Online, and am going off of third party information, but thier player base seems quite happy with the service and support that Funcom gives them.

Add to this the fact that Funcom has been quite forthcoming in showcasing the following:

1) Age of Conan's Class system

2) Melee and Ranged combat system.  Skill vs. Auto Attack.

3) Mounted Combat

4) Siege Combat

5) Player built cities and the PvE content it spawns

6) Prestige classes

7) The fact that the game is a single player game for the first 20 levels.  There are NO monthly fees until you bring one character beyond the single player game.  Upon doing this, you have the choice of running an alternate character from the beginning or starting the MMO aspect immediately.

Feel free to look up what I've announced.  They seem to be more than willing to show off what their game can do, and quite frequently keep their potential player base up to date.

They make no apologies for the fact that the game will be rated M (possible Adults Only), and the community seems more than happy with the fact that the game will NOT be for everyone.

There is still some WoW hatred there (I guess that's one thing Vanguard and AoC have in common), but for the most part, the community is mature, and generally do not degenerate into a flame fest.

My point on all this?

What has Sigil shown us?

Really though, where's the videos showing the "3rd Generation" MMO in action?  So far, it looks great.....picture wise.  But! It's nothing I haven't already seen before.

Don't get me wrong, I still have fond memories of EQ1, I'm even tempted every now and then to go back (my marriage and son keep me from it), so my interest in Vanguard is definately peaked.

But to be honest, from what I've seen of responses to peoples inquiries about the game, and the lack of response from the devs as far as actual game substance, I'm not all that impressed.

Folks, there's no doubt Vanguard is going to be hard.  In fact, I'm sure that the Nerf bat will be sitting near by waiting to ensure that Vanguard is going to live up to that name.

But treating people with the disrespect I see in the forums, though it might weed out the "weak", will have an affect on subscribers.  Remember, for the small elite that are out there, it's the mass of semi-casual people that will fund your dream.  If all you had on the servers were elite people, there wouldn't be enough people to pay the bills.  Sure you'll have your "Uber hard game" but for what? 6 months? A Year?

Uberness might help your ego, but it makes it harder to pay the bills.


Novice Member

Joined: 6/10/06
Posts: 6

I''m going to live forever or die trying.

6/10/06 2:57:37 PM#70
I know my whole guild from galaxies was all going to it, we were very exctied, then we found out SOE was involved.....and i cried........what was sigil thinking  ) :

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/04
Posts: 457

6/10/06 4:31:11 PM#71

SWG fans definately have an axe to grind with those guys.

I played SWG for 6 months.  It was very cool, had some neat concepts.  It wasn't my cup of tea, but I can see why those that loved it kept playing despite the constant screw ups by SOE.  I had figured that the NGE would have killed it, but sadly people are STILL holding on.


Novice Member

Joined: 9/19/04
Posts: 24

6/14/06 11:48:14 AM#72

None of us know what happened.  All we know is that SOE has horrible support in all of it's games.  If you get to talk to someone they are generally rude and tell you sorry but they can not help you. Have a nice day.

Did MS pull out or did Vigil pull out? Did SOE offer a backdoor deal because they need a success?


Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/04
Posts: 457

6/14/06 2:37:26 PM#73

It's something that no one will probably ever know.

This is usually due to companies living in fear of lawsuits and negative public exposure.

What I SUSPECT happened was that Microsoft asked Vigil to do something that didn't jive with their Vision, and they agreed to disagree.  SOE was more than happy to take VSoH on due to it's built up hype.


Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/06
Posts: 1372

6/14/06 3:02:26 PM#74

I think it's more likely that Microsoft was generally unhappy with the pace of production or the current state of the game. Microsoft isn't generally know for letting go of an IP once they have their claws in it. They would rather see a franchise die that have a competitor put the game out. If they were excited about the prospects for the game to be a success they certainly wouldn't have let it go.


Novice Member

Joined: 10/29/03
Posts: 926

6/15/06 12:57:55 AM#75
MS most likely wanted to ship sooner rather than later and Brad (along with all the beta testers) said it wasn't close to being ready to ship. I am sure if MS had owned it, then it would have either shipped half assed, or been killed just like Mythica was. Funny how they don't seem to tollerate their games being late, but their primary software is always running way behind and delivering much less than promised.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/18/04
Posts: 1555

6/17/06 1:40:20 PM#76

We aren't playing for SOE,  we aren't playing for Brad McQuaid, and  we aren't playing for John Smedely.

We are playing for OURSELFS.  Look around you!  Every other MMO out there is either old or sucks bad or both!  I guess I don't have much choice. 


Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/06
Posts: 1372

6/17/06 7:44:34 PM#77
I choose old over sucky....
  User Deleted
6/22/06 7:51:11 AM#78
Vanguard and SOE:


Novice Member

Joined: 6/27/06
Posts: 15

6/27/06 2:03:47 AM#79
Wow 8 pages heh ppl are upset at SOE. I stopped reading around page 3... but from the way posts were going and this last page n2sooner said probably everything I'd want to say, and probably said it better 

Novice Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 1028

6/27/06 3:37:20 PM#80
I was pretty disappointed when I'd heard that Sigil was crawling back to SOE.  I just cant imagine what Brad could be thinking.  It's hard to imagine SOE's reputation would simply be unknown to someone in the industry, so there must be some stipulation to their agreement that SOE can not, and will not touch the game itself, or be in charge of expansions (dear GOD please say they're not in charge of expansions!). But if that's the case, you would think Sigil would release more information about their dealings with SOE just to stop the fanbase they've built up from abandoning them. That is unless they have and I just havnt seen it.

In any case, Vanguard was the ONLY MMORPG I was looking forward to playing, and now thanks to this seemingly unpleasant turn of events, I'm having my doubts.  I may still give them the benefit of the doubt, I've been stuck with Wow for some time now.  I dont think it's a BAD game or anything, but nothing has really had that "suck you into the world and make you feel like a part of it to the point where real life is just boring and stupid because you'd rather be killing hundreds of monsters cuz you're an iksar and everyone hates you but you have to do business with them or get past them without being attacked and you have to trick them into trusting you first only to go back and kill them later when you're stronger and they're of no use to you" sort of feeling.....yeah, good times.

Anyway, I was hoping Sigil could bring that sense of false purpose that MMORPG's used to have back to the table, but if SOE sours that (or if the game just happens to suck, which I'm not totally ruling out either), then I guess there just really is no place left for MMORPG vets similar to myself.
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