General Discussion

---

Originally posted by Fion
I agree, D&DO feels about as much like playing Table Top D&D 3.5 as guzzling piss feels like drinking a Dew.

Neverwinter Nights 2 is do out this spring and as far as I'm concerned, nobody will give D&DO a 2nd chance.

"Wait you mean NWN2 is more like actual D&D with more online content then D&DO could dream of and no running through that same warehouse filled with boxes (this is what we call the CHEAPEST 'filler' TRICK IN THE BOOK!) and those few mobs behind that locked gate that I have done so many times now I could do it in my SLEEP!?!?

" You mean I could hook up with actual friends and my DM could write stories and build adventures and we could go through them JUST like in PnP?"

"You must be dicking me around if you want me to believe I wont be clicking my mouse while I trying to circle-strafe mobs while I pretend to use actual D&D feats and skills but instead get into fights that not only work like Pen & Paper but appear in real time with all the special feats and moves and even attacks of opportunities?"

"YOUR SERIOUS!?!? SCREW D&DO!"

---

Truer words have never been spoken, Fion I like the cut of your jib.

Haha, I edited because I thought I was being to harsh. I am not the type of person who bashes others for what they enjoy. I do hope D&DO finds some success as I dont wish anyone who has worked on a project for years to see that project fail (probably because it's happened to me.. lol, and it's not fun.)

I wanted to add that I think PvP would have opened up D&DO to new customers who enjoy the type of combat the game offers. Everyone saying PvP doesn't belong in D&D. I beg to differ. I've been DM'ing for 25 years now and, especially when 3.0 or 3.5 is taken under consideration, PvP plays a rather big roll in D&D, just not as you'd expect when thinking in terms of MMOGs. Examples:

In 3.0/5 edition, unlike previous editions, monsters are set up basicly the same way players are. Where in earlier editions they had their own entire system of stats (excluding basic str/dex/con/int/etc scores for the most part.) I mean there were similarities but also definate differences. In 3.5 monsters and players have the exact same stat system.

While this means it can take longer to set up an encounter, this also means that many monsters often can and do have character classes of their own. A simple example would be the Orge Barbarians found in the Monster Manual. They are ogres, with extra stats do to being Barbarians. Additional to that is the fact that many enemies you face in D&D are actually NPC's, not monsters. Especially at mid-high level, when you face more villians with monstrous guardians and more political intrigue and seiging, etc.

So do to this, players fight 'players' all the time. It's not uncommon for an enemy to be the evil priest of Wee Jas Cleric 6/Fighter 2, or the Warlord of the Badlands Fighter 6/Weapon Master 4. These enemies have the same skills, feats, abilities, spells, equipment, magical gear, cohorts and mercenaries, scemes and plots. They ARE characters, and Players.. they are the DM's players really.So PvP IS a part of the game, and always has been. Just its the players, vs their DM's ingenuity.

With the twitch based combat system and the spells and weapons and tumbling and what not. I think D&DO could have had a solid base of PvPers, and their so-so game likely to be successful mostly because of their lisence name, could have been a solid success.

I mean for cryin out loud, D&DO doesn't even have Prestigue Classes or... even Multi-Classing, a fantastic and integral part of D&D since 2nd freaking edition! (Note: at least since I last knew, which was when I last played about a month and a half ago.)

Now you see why I think NWN2 will just blow D&DO away in the 'playing D&D with your friends' dept?

Now if someone would just get off their arse and make a compeling World of Darkness Online already!

The one thing in MMOs today there is no shortage of is nursing little cry babies who for whatever reason cannot stop trying to compair one game to another.  Waaaa there is too much instancing. Waaa it has twitch combat.  Waaa I just dropped my bottle.

Come on folks isnt it time you all just cut it out?  If you like the game buy it and play - if you don't like the game then don't buy it, but if the latter is your choice please stop coming onto the forums with your grief and tears as it isnt going to change anything at all.

The game is solid, fun, and is an awesome time! Its not twitch as there is a certain amount of skill involved - you don't just stand there clicking a button.  It's almost like a dance - you engage in combat and throughout the entire encounter your moving and trying to counter act the creature your up against. You guys bash this more than you bash all the other game combined and on the other games you simply target and hit an attack key then sit back and see what happens.

I see so often that it doesnt have an MMO feel but there are people everywhere!! In the pubs, in the cities and in the dungeons.

News flash - only way to be in game right now is if you PRE-ORDER and there are a freaking TON of people online even in the wee hours of the night.

---

Originally posted by Valorus
The one thing in MMOs today there is no shortage of is nursing little cry babies who for whatever reason cannot stop trying to compair one game to another. Waaaa there is too much instancing. Waaa it has twitch combat. Waaa I just dropped my bottle.
Come on folks isnt it time you all just cut it out? If you like the game buy it and play - if you don't like the game then don't buy it, but if the latter is your choice please stop coming onto the forums with your grief and tears as it isnt going to change anything at all.
The game is solid, fun, and is an awesome time! Its not twitch as there is a certain amount of skill involved - you don't just stand there clicking a button. It's almost like a dance - you engage in combat and throughout the entire encounter your moving and trying to counter act the creature your up against. You guys bash this more than you bash all the other game combined and on the other games you simply target and hit an attack key then sit back and see what happens.
I see so often that it doesnt have an MMO feel but there are people everywhere!! In the pubs, in the cities and in the dungeons.
News flash - only way to be in game right now is if you PRE-ORDER and there are a freaking TON of people online even in the wee hours of the night.

---

It's called free speech Mmm'kay, if you don't like it move to China . You've said your piece, others have the right to speak their mind and let others know. Have you ever considered maybe people like simply targeting and hitting an attack key. You say there is skill, what skill when you are circle strafeing like there is no tommorow and mashing your attack mouse button with feverish play akin to whack a mole. This is a first person shooter twich game that rolls dice to see if you hit or miss just to make it somehow related to D&D combat, so they can call it D&D to appease the namesake. Doesn't that seem ridiculous? If you want to make a twich action rpg with circle strafes like Quake, then make sure when you use your l44t circle strafing skills to get in and swing the sword it connects, not miss 90% of the time like is the case here in DDO, because of a dice roll. Similarily with this technique you can solo most of this content and it becomes a game of how well you can time your hits while circle strafing hoping your die roll hits. This game has an identity crisis and thats being nice about it.

1) This game does not have feature X like game Y does.
2) Because this game does not have feature X, I will not play DDO.
3) I am representative of the majority of the people who are contemplating buying this game.
4) Therefore if I do not buy this game, few people will.
5) Therefore this game will fail.
(Please ignore the fact that if you do include feature X I will nevertheless only play the game for 2  months before becoming bored and leaving DDO for game Z)

This game seems to really split most gamers right down the middle.   Either some people really love it or others really hate it.    Most of the haters seem to fall into the 5 step program above.   

---

Originally posted by Odysses
1) This game does not have feature X like game Y does.2) Because this game does not have feature X, I will not play DDO.3) I am representative of the majority of the people who are contemplating buying this game. 4) Therefore if I do not buy this game, few people will.5) Therefore this game will fail.(Please ignore the fact that if you do include feature X I will nevertheless only play the game for 2 months before becoming bored and leaving DDO for game Z)
This game seems to really split most gamers right down the middle. Either some people really love it or others really hate it. Most of the haters seem to fall into the 5 step program above.

---

The same rules in your silly little schtik apply to you, especially the thing about being representative of the community. You may think you are witty and cool with your little "I am flaming X for multiple choice Y", but that was a cool and funny thing 1 year ago on the wow forums at best.. get a new a joke please.

Disclaimer: these are my own opinions and not the community at large, who may think you are funny and witty.

Ah I see. Because I think D&DO is a poor representation of a D&D game I'm a hater. Because I choose to voice my mind on these forums (which FYI forums are made for) I am a troll.

Who's the one doing the labeling here? It certainly isn't me.

Damn, I wrote up a long reply about the problem with the combat and stuff, but then the internet ate it.

Some people really need to take a step back and look at the things more globally. It is not just Fion here that "hates" on DDO. Looking at countless different forums and threads about ddo you can clearly see that there are plenty of people thinking the same. To ignore all of them because they are just haters due to their mum not breast feeding them as kid is the most dumb thing to do. Lots of people who give ddo negative feedback are wording their concerns very civilized and look at things quite objectively, as opposed to someone pulling out the old "yousa hata".

Turbine should not be mistaken in thinking that big license names like D&D and LOTR alone make for a success. Especially not in a game that needs to be supported for long with a monthly fee. I am playing the beta for a while now and today was quite frustrating as I realized the game doesn't get better as I hoped. Instead I just encountered more errors and big issues in balancing that took the fun out of it for me and the group.

I like the instancing in the game for the adventures very much, but Turbine failed to make the most of it. In an interview I just read the lead content designer claiming that the instancing helps them to create content that feels like you actually change things. Yeah right, thats why the sanctuary doors I opened in the first part of the quest were all closed again and the same big mob came at the same place I killed him before already, when I came back for the 2nd part. There is just so many claims in that one interview alone which are totally untrue if you played the game and saw for yourself it is really aggravating. Claiming that they didn't build a big world like in other mmo's because then it would all look too stretched and empty when their own game only has one big city that feels like a ghost town, that is what I call bullshit. Not that the game could handle masses of people anyways, with the few running around in the beta now it drops into a slideshow very easy.

But I guess now someone will tell me "but dude it is still beta, what do you expect". What do I expect? After reading the newspost that DDO has gone gold in the US I expect a finished game, not something that feels like a closed beta at best.