Stupid me, I replied to your post, and not to the topic thread.  I'm sorry, can you reply back to me with the text of what I sent, I lost my entire post when I submitted it.

Thanks.

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Originally posted by Furrbawl
Ah come on MMORPG staff, you can ask better questions than that! Put their feet to the fire.
How about these questions: - Why do you think you can run 100k simultanious players with DnL when the SoG server has to be rebooted multiple times a day due to stability issues with only 18,881 registered players?- There have been a lot of complaints about in-game framerates. Is the engine going to be optimized for performance or is it at it's final state?- There are numerous log in issues currently. Why were these issues not discovered during beta?
Your Q&A's with NP3 are too "fluffy" - you need to get hardcore with the developers. There are just too many unanswered and ignored issues.

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You cannot please everyone. Some of the posters say great questions, others say bad questions.

The problem with your questions is that they're all negative to begin with. The best way to get information from someone is not to be accusatory in the question.

For example, your first question isn't that far off from my question on the upward server capacity if you think about it.

Also, the Q&A mentioned that its the first of two that concentrate on SoG. We have a question about how tough this game is on PCs in the second half.

As to your final question... this is beta. So asking why something wasn't fixed in beta seems silly.

A few short sentences.

1. Flamers are always the loudest

2. General public sees mostly flamer input = general public discouraged

3. Farlan has implemented MANY improvements in the few weeks SOG has been open

4. Give it a month and see what people are saying

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Originally posted by Jackdog
Never thought I would see a company that would make SOE look honest, ethical, competent, and caring. Compared to this BS though SOE has my undying respect.

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Now Jack, that's going a little far with regards to SOE. Otherwise you have my full agreement. It's the first time I've experienced a company continually mislead their own beta testers and I started beta testing MMORPGs on The Realm in '96. In my opinion their business pratices are at best dubious and their skill in the dissemination of misinformation would do the MI5 or the CIA proud. I'm not suggesting in any way this is deliberate on their part, it may simply be down to a lack of competence.

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Originally posted by Sryn

A few short sentences.

1. Flamers are always the loudest

2. General public sees mostly flamer input = general public discouraged

3. Farlan has implemented MANY improvements in the few weeks SOG has been open

4. Give it a month and see what people are saying

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Posts like this are typical from the players who are relatively new, with 1 post, for example . . .

Dark and Light has been in development for over 4 years.  people get the impression that this game is still new and in its growing pains.  This is only half true.  It is NOT new.  It is so old that you can see it in SoG with its dated graphics (character models and animation, in particular, although the environments are still very good).

Months ago on the DnL forums, things were good.  Everyone remained patient and optimistic, even after the many delays and postponed release dates, the first of which was supposed to be in August of 2003.

It wasn't until recently that the whole community went to hell.  SoG does nothing to help the matter, and Farlan/NPCube do not communicate at all with the community, or their community service team -AD.

Then take into account their terrible coding, distribution of the game, and patching, lack of content (yes, even for an unfinished game, remember it is over 4 years old!), and BUGS.  Beta testers have not been testing for months.  The closed beta was supposed to start again in January, but it hasn't.  now SoG is the beta, which is no surprise, but there is no official and specific way to report bugs, so how does the game improve?

I can go on, but I think most of the community that has been around long enough to see the truth behind this game and Farlan/NPCube.  Once the newer community members are around for a while, they will see it too. 

[quote]Originally posted by LepidusAs to your final question... this is beta. So asking why something wasn't fixed in beta seems silly.[/b][/quote]

I agree with what you have said Dana, and I fully appreciate the position mmorpg.com in is when dealing with development teams. However I have to comment on this one. Farlan have continually and repeatedly stated that SoG was not a beta. They even told their own beta testers this prior to SoG launch. It is then no surprise, given this, that the majority of people simply believe what Farlan stated and expected SoG to be a complete and stand-alone game.

Now some of us might know SoG is a beta for Dark and Light because we have followed the project for some time and have insider knowledge to some extent, but others who do not have this perspective will take Farlan, NP3 and AD at their word. Remember it is only very recently that Farlan backtracked and admitted that SoG was indeed a beta, and this was only due to the fact it would have been too embarrassing for them to do otherwise in my opinion.

P.S. I am not breaking NDA when I infer I have been in beta. Dark and Light beta, as stated by AD on the beta forum, ceased upon the release of SoG and will not resume for some time. When it does resume all previous testers will have to reapply to test. I'm just making this clear for obvious reasons.

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Originally posted by RedRab
I agree with what you have said Dana, and I fully appreciate the position mmorpg.com in is when dealing with development teams. However I have to comment on this one. Farlan have continually and repeatedly stated that SoG was not a beta. They even told their own beta testers this prior to SoG launch. It is then no surprise, given this, that the majority of people simply believe what Farlan stated and expected SoG to be a complete and stand-alone game.

Now some of us might know SoG is a beta for Dark and Light because we have followed the project for some time and have insider knowledge to some extent, but others who do not have this perspective will take Farlan, NP3 and AD at their word. Remember it is only very recently that Farlan backtracked and admitted that SoG was indeed a beta, and this was only due to the fact it would have been too embarrassing for them to do otherwise in my opinion.

P.S. I am not breaking NDA when I infer I have been in beta. Dark and Light beta, as stated by AD on the beta forum, ceased upon the release of SoG and will not resume for some time. When it does resume all previous testers will have to reapply to test. I'm just making this clear for obvious reasons.

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Be that as it may, we've consistantly called it a beta on this site and in interviews with them. No one corrected us. Really, SoG was a clever marketing idea that has great potential. Unfortunately, people confused prequel with 'completed product'. The fact that they're not charging money - directly - for it and are not planning release for six months beyond its launch is a sure enough comment that no matter how you label this, you cannot expect anything more from SoG then you would any other game you're in a test for six months prior to release.

Which is to say... not much.

Games need time to come together and often gaps present in beta make a game seem worse than it truly will be once they have a chance to finish it.*

(* Disclaimer: The above comment is not directly about D&L, but rather a general truth in my experience with MMOs as a whole.)

I am really deeply disappointed by the answers the DnL Staff gave. I have never seen anyone lie so shamelessly. Just look at the first sentence:

As a player starts DnL, he is helped by Alchemic Dream to experiment step-by-step with each character’s skills and specialties.

As long as the Devs don't start to be HONEST and just lie at their player base, this whole game won't have a chance to survive.

Due to the fact that they now openly lie at us, I changed my hype to a lower score then before. Way to go, Farlan!

ONE server ONE map ONE game ..... you have to love that ... every game before release has bugs ...(some more than others) ... but you cant denie the concept ONE SERVER, this is a game thats gonna change the MMORPG gaiming era, i am not for or against DNL but i love the idea , and that to me is enough it give it a try

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Originally posted by wacko_wabbit

ONE server ONE map ONE game ..... you have to love that ... every game before release has bugs ...(some more than others) ... but you cant denie the concept ONE SERVER, this is a game thats gonna change the MMORPG gaiming era, i am not for or against DNL but i love the idea , and that to me is enough it give it a try

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It will only change if it works. So far in 2+  years of beta they could not make it work. Now in their so called prequel it is not working even after toning their graphics textures down to where things viewed at close quarters look as if you are using a Pentium 1 350 and a Voodoo Banshee.

I have also been in many a beta Dana and never saw a game 4 or even 6 months before release with this many problems. As Wacko pointed out every game has a few problems at release, however SoG/DnL surpasses even WWI Online and Shadow Bane at the moment. I cannot think of any game with this companies problems that ever enjoyed any modicum of success and NP3 should have done the right thing and admitted defeat a year ago instead of stringing the fans along on this ride to disappointment.

I was a little saddened reading these posts. Are people really that disappointed with the DnL team?

One of the earlier posters commented that people new to the game will not be familar with the history. I'll fully admit I  fall into that category. The information seemed very good on this game and examining their website looked very promising.

I only started to worry when the download with BitTorrent said it would take days to complete...

I guess I'll wait to read the next Q&A and see what it reveals...

Draxx

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Originally posted by Draxx
I was a little saddened reading these posts. Are people really that disappointed with the DnL team?
One of the earlier posters commented that people new to the game will not be familar with the history. I'll fully admit I  fall into that category. The information seemed very good on this game and examining their website looked very promising.
I only started to worry when the download with BitTorrent said it would take days to complete...
I guess I'll wait to read the next Q&A and see what it reveals...
Draxx

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Or maybe more.

-From the first day (im talking for new users, about the DEV chat announcing SoG), there're only lies. All dates given (except the pioner payment) were false, then the "ended game - presecuel of DnL" called SoG is an earlier betta (they still say that it's a finished game).
-More than 70% of people can only play at less than 12fps in minimal quality lvl of detail (also people like me with an ADM 2800+, 1.5Gb RAM and GForce 5600). If you're in zones with fog or snowing less than 6fps. (Check requierements from their webpage).
-Constant server crashes or Login-server crashes.
-Bugs just for trying to enter (dnlg.exe crash trying to load char). Or hours with Login-server down and noone could enter.
-In their +2days of maintenaince they're ever late opening server and with many crashes, and of course 3-4 bugs fixed and 5-6 new bugs :|
-From the opening of SoG they only implemented some new stuff, but no new NPCs, no quests, no Exploring habilities/experience, no crafting.
-When something happend, no news about, ONLY hours/days later of unnoficial information comes and is published in boards.
-Solutions of bugs and bad updates come first by users and UNNOFICIAL help than AD/ndl team.
-Only French/English boards/information ""intime"" all other ""official languages"" usually comes from hours to 3-4 days later (if it's translated), but it's ever translated before, many hours before by users (like skill-bonsai and " Quickstart Manual ".
-No information about server stats given by them (the only way is going to (again) unnoficial sites that shows the stat of the server or IRC, unnoficial help channel.
-Very unvalanced profesions.
-Client crashes with not aparent reason while loading.
-People that cannot enter anymore if they're kicked (disconections or something) because they appear as still loged (need a server reboot).
-Siege system is really crappy. Why do you want walls if only hides you/your_enemy but all ranged attacks avoid the walls ?
-Not really support. (They remind us that we're not betatesters and we can, but not must, inform them about bugs... but only by official way... they also remember that we shouldn't post the solutions, etcetc... from firsts days to now, its accepted we post it :) ), but not really solutions/answers to questions made, as in the Q&A. Still no answers about new NPCs, Quests, crafting, sieges, exploration exp/hablities, etc.
-Problems to get refunds of DnL Pioner from people who take the "offer" to get their money back if they wanted, asking it before 6 January (some people had problems to has it back, and for others couldn't have they money back, for the "free" SoG when they ever say that are different games and only payed for DnL... a game that noone knows when will be online......).

About 1/3 of place for DnL is out and for SoG users there's nothing new.
From today i couldn't play more than 30 minutes. 5 times i could play less than 5 minutes (i was kicked, while launcher saying server up and working, login server was down), later about 10 minutes of playing.
Personally i need to try playing 5-6 times everytime i try to get online, because the client is crashing while loading the char (and every time i must delete some files to have a chance to enter again), as many other people happend.

They major update was a file of 800Mb with only textures or new pics i dunno, and of course, more options for Fort construction, then another download of 90Mb, no, a lot of people was delayed one day more to get this download (and thanks for unnoficial help of other users who uploaded the patch into torrent file), first the information of how it should be installed was nule, then we've some info about from AD but its not normal having to download this 800Mb patch (only graphic with very few bugs fixed, more bugs implemented, and same CPU/Mem usage and as many few fps than before) and having to move/copy files from one directory to another (once installed) and then the addition patch of 90Mb :|

Well, for more info, or if you can not belive me... check official DnL boards and see it for yourself (may be worse than this ) and i really think that is has very good graphics and it's a good idea, but i can not trust them in they words/promises as they don't respect us and lies all the time, may be easier to admit things and not negate all. The fanbase WAS very huge but day after day are quiting thanks to all that.

The expectatives were great, the reality is very poor.
You may say i'm a flammer, but i think i'm only showing the reallity if not, check boards.

To their credit, there are many great features in the game such as the hugh landmasses, the field of view, and the great amount of creatures. I think the graphics are stunning. However I have a VERY high end computer and have heard that this might be necessary to fully enjoy the graphics.

On a more negative side, I am extremely disappointed with their server stability. There have been multiple days when I have been unable to log into the game due to various server side bugs and server memory leaks. The bugs that are currently plaguing SoG are horrendous. 2 of my three characters that I am allowed to create are permenantly "bugged"--they will not log into the game under any circumstances. That seems to be the situation with hundreds of others as well. My customer service ticket has yet to be answered but my guess is that they are swamped with tickets right now.

My advice is to wait this one out. There are serious problems with their server stability and game code right now. Hopefully they will be able to resolve them in time for the April release, but I expect a 6 month delay due to the massive problems that are occuring in SoG.

[My advice is to wait this one out. There are serious problems with their server stability and game code right now. Hopefully they will be able to resolve them in time for the April release, but I expect a 6 month delay due to the massive problems that are occuring in SoG.]

Cool at least its isn't all bad.  Thing I am not too keen on is this WAIT business...

Since the free download of the gamefile was released to the general signee's (<<< is that a word?) it took me almost 12 days with an average download speed of around 2k on a highspeed 1.5mbs DSL connection. Seems (as I mentioned prior to this post) that I spent more time HOSTing what I managed to download than anything else...

Now after finally finishing the download I have almost lost interest in the whole thing altogether!

I can only suggest they spend the time to set up a decent Patching system for all the bug fixes or they won't last 12months.

LOL

<edit>

After leaving this post I decided to install SOG and setup my chars and account etc. (yes I a signed up all those weeks ago!)

Well blow me down if it isn't the most lazy installer ever, and to top it off the exe file FAILS every time with a commandline error?? Now I Hexlisted the file and in the first three lines it says "can not be run in DOS mode" so wtf is this??

Looks like I dump 1.4gig of file or spend MORE time downloading some kind of patch?

sheesh ;-)

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Originally posted by wacko_wabbit

ONE server ONE map ONE game ..... you have to love that ... every game before release has bugs ...(some more than others) ... but you cant denie the concept ONE SERVER, this is a game thats gonna change the MMORPG gaiming era, i am not for or against DNL but i love the idea , and that to me is enough it give it a try

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That's not new is it ?

I mean, Eve-Online has one server, one world, 100K subscribers in the sam etruly persistent world which is player-driven in the extreme even today. No true instancing, open non-consensual pvp with distinct territorial control mechanics, complete and complex player-political scenery etc. etc.

Those boundaries are already moved, DnL comes far too late for that, if it will make release at all.

Still, if it does come out this side of my last breath I will probably try it out anyway. Their ideass seem ok, even altho the company clearly lacks what the better companies out there have: involvement with their playerbase.

edit: Oh, and I'd doubt their assertion they'll be able to have 100K simultanious users on their single shard btw. Eve Online holds the current record for that at about 25K concurrent users, and it's a definite strain on the hardware over there. They (CCP) are replacing their complete server cluster with fully up to date 64bit hardware and code and still expect to be able to sustain a max of about 40K users with optimum performance (in their world that really does translate to no lag btw), and maybe 70K users with the cluster at breaking point. 100K for a game yet to be realeased ? I doubt it.