---

Originally posted by Gynthazi

I'll have to re-comment :)

I can tell you know quite a bit about EVE and obviously nothing about DAoC. I've played both, extensively.. Since beta for EVE.

DAoC does all of these things you listed above. In fact with the revamped frontiers expansion castle keeps are not only taken, but take on different forms depending on the level they are upgraded too...

I'm not going to get into all the aspects of pvp that DAoC provides..i'm sure a community manager would be happy to list them for you (they probably have it as a cut/paste somewhere).. All i'll say is EVE, although it has its PvP aspects.. it's nothing DAoC didn't do first (in a fantasy setting of course)..

Sorry man.. Again, its just personal opinion on what I think has better PvP, but comparing them line by line on features just destroys EVE...can't argue with facts.

The worst of it is DAoC created the same stuff oh..what 4 years ago?

Have to give the Edge to DAoC hands down.

---

You obviously didn't play EVE, if you say "although it has its PvP aspects.. it's nothing DAoC didn't do first". Could aswell say that there is nothing in DAOC pvp that UO didn't do first with your logic.

Simple DAOC pvp is very risk free and meaningless compared to EVE where you risk losing a lot and victory and defeat means something.

---

Originally posted by leipuri

---

You obviously didn't play EVE, if you say "although it has its PvP aspects.. it's nothing DAoC didn't do first". Could aswell say that there is nothing in DAOC pvp that UO didn't do first with your logic.

Simple DAOC pvp is very risk free and meaningless compared to EVE where you risk losing a lot and victory and defeat means something.

---

You obviously never played DAoC. I've played both. Extensively. This is the problem.. It will always come down to opinions, but you skew the facts... love to get each community manager from EVE and DAoC to actually list all the functions of their PvP game so this can be settled (i'm WAY to lazy to do that and really don't care enough to try).

Bottom line though.. pvp is not risk free and meaningless in daoc.. only a moron could state such a thing.. or someone who's never played the RvR system.

Other thing is i'm not ripping on EVE in any way. Very different game to say the least, but when it comes to PvP it just doesnt add up... least as far as features go on a paper comparison.. sorry...

---

Originally posted by pirrg

Give it a rest, DAoC is just another generic zerg-fest mm. There is no real purpose or freedom in anything you do in that game.

---

Wow, that was the most intelligent, insightful post i've ever seen on these boards. If everyone could give the wonderful insight you did the community as a whole would be a lot better off.

Btw, I think you have to be 13 to be a member here. Did your mom approve of you joining before you did? Or did you just lie about your age.

---

Originally posted by Gynthazi

---

Originally posted by leipuri

---

You obviously didn't play EVE, if you say "although it has its PvP aspects.. it's nothing DAoC didn't do first". Could aswell say that there is nothing in DAOC pvp that UO didn't do first with your logic.

Simple DAOC pvp is very risk free and meaningless compared to EVE where you risk losing a lot and victory and defeat means something.

---

You obviously never played DAoC. I've played both. Extensively. This is the problem.. It will always come down to opinions, but you skew the facts... love to get each community manager from EVE and DAoC to actually list all the functions of their PvP game so this can be settled (i'm WAY to lazy to do that and really don't care enough to try).

Bottom line though.. pvp is not risk free and meaningless in daoc.. only a moron could state such a thing.. or someone who's never played the RvR system.

Other thing is i'm not ripping on EVE in any way. Very different game to say the least, but when it comes to PvP it just doesnt add up... least as far as features go on a paper comparison.. sorry...

---

I said "risk free and meaningless compared to EVE" which is true. Don't get me wrong it's alright to like risk free pvp. 

I wount bother list all features in EVE pvp, but simple put it this way. In EVE players are who shape universe and decide the rules when in daoc there is lot of in game rules dev team have set in place that try simulate what eve achive with player freedom. In eve dev team isnt holding your hand and it actually hurt when you fall down, because you risk losing something valuable. 

---

Originally posted by leipuri

---

I said "risk free and meaningless compared to EVE" which is true. Don't get me wrong it's alright to like risk free pvp. 

I wount bother list all features in EVE pvp, but simple put it this way. In EVE players are who shape universe and decide the rules when in daoc there is lot of in game rules dev team have set in place that try simulate what eve achive with player freedom. In eve dev team isnt holding your hand and it actually hurt when you fall down, because you risk losing something valuable. 

---

I do see your point in some aspect. I think bottom line though, we're comparing apples to oranges.. I think i'm leaning to DAoC more because they were the true originators or making PvP an important element in mmo's, and it's something i've not seen duplicated.

EVE on the other hand has a completely different aspect of PvP (in a completely different genre as well)....

Ahh well, not sure anyone could win this debate, it just comes down to preference...

---

Originally posted by Gynthazi

Originally posted by leipuri

I said "risk free and meaningless compared to EVE" which is true. Don't get me wrong it's alright to like risk free pvp.
I wount bother list all features in EVE pvp, but simple put it this way. In EVE players are who shape universe and decide the rules when in daoc there is lot of in game rules dev team have set in place that try simulate what eve achive with player freedom. In eve dev team isnt holding your hand and it actually hurt when you fall down, because you risk losing something valuable.

I do see your point in some aspect. I think bottom line though, we're comparing apples to oranges.. I think i'm leaning to DAoC more because they were the true originators or making PvP an important element in mmo's, and it's something i've not seen duplicated.
EVE on the other hand has a completely different aspect of PvP (in a completely different genre as well)....
Ahh well, not sure anyone could win this debate, it just comes down to preference...

---

Honestly in my experience with DoAC RVR was a zerg-fest in many cases, or in DaOC terms an /assist train. It definitely had some good aspects too it but it really isn't that different from existing MMO's out there. DaOC made PvP an integral part of MMO's but EVE made that PVP have purpose.

Didn't like either of those click-and-watch choices.

In my opinion, RYL has the best PVP, but you do have to reach a fairly high level to effectively participate, and average gamers don't have what it takes, so the games for the masses will always win these kinds of polls.

---

Originally posted by Minsc

---

Originally posted by Gynthazi

Originally posted by leipuri

I said "risk free and meaningless compared to EVE" which is true. Don't get me wrong it's alright to like risk free pvp.
I wount bother list all features in EVE pvp, but simple put it this way. In EVE players are who shape universe and decide the rules when in daoc there is lot of in game rules dev team have set in place that try simulate what eve achive with player freedom. In eve dev team isnt holding your hand and it actually hurt when you fall down, because you risk losing something valuable.

I do see your point in some aspect. I think bottom line though, we're comparing apples to oranges.. I think i'm leaning to DAoC more because they were the true originators or making PvP an important element in mmo's, and it's something i've not seen duplicated.
EVE on the other hand has a completely different aspect of PvP (in a completely different genre as well)....
Ahh well, not sure anyone could win this debate, it just comes down to preference...

---

Honestly in my experience with DoAC RVR was a zerg-fest in many cases, or in DaOC terms an /assist train. It definitely had some good aspects too it but it really isn't that different from existing MMO's out there. DaOC made PvP an integral part of MMO's but EVE made that PVP have purpose.

---

Someone already said eve had 200v200 battles, how is that not a zerg fest?

DAoC also has group vs group and 1 vs 1 conflicts. EVE also has situations where you need to zerg the enemy to win.

Neither game is more unique or better than the other. Though i do like DAoC more, since i got tired of getting gate ganked after beta finished.

Was a fun beta at least.

The PvP in EvE is very tactical for evey ying their is a yang. A 200vs200 fleet battle isn't just 400 ships duking it out it 400ship + all the ammo, where to store those ships, fuel, and command. Its takes 2000 people and a good bit of planning to make a 200vs200 battle happen. If EvE players played WoW they would be sacking Iron Forge and the Undercity and then hold them for ransom. PvP can have a perfound effect on the market. A Tech 2 producer goes to move 100 000m3 of morphit to a factory and gets gated by a competing corp now Tech 2 Cap chargers go from costing 10mil to 25mil to make up for the loss. A good 1/3 of EvE uses T2 Cap chargers and this 1 corp made 1/3 of those chargers meaning 2500 people are now effected by the price hike causing them to hike their own prices for gear or services. And that another thing EvE just doesn't have a manufacuring player driven industry and market and also has a service indusrty in the form of mercenaries, haulers, and, espionage. EvEs PvP has somthing very few MMO have, the ripple effect.

Actually, I agree and think that SWG should be the most stupid move category winner. I don't care what spin they put on it. SWG was a decent game, had an awesome crafting system with the ability to make items in various colors and designs and the devs killed it with CU1 and it's sequel CU2. SWG shouldn't be up in ANY best of category. Maybe if the worst or most stupid category existed, then the devs wouldn't want to win this category and would think before they produced something that the players didn't want in the first place.

The more I read this thread, the more I realize Eve and DAOC should not even be compared. How do you compare sci-fi ship to ship warfare and medieval person vs. person combat. Its not even close to being the same thing. I believe they should break this into two different categories. Sci-fi and fantasy.

No matter which way you look at it, the two sides will never come to an agreement. I went with DAOC because I don't play the sci-fi genre. If someone else doesn't play the fantasy genre, they obviously won't be picking DAOC.

As far as RYL goes.......well, I never heard anything good enough about that game to even bother with it.
I think you would actually have to have a game with a large enough player base to have a voice loud enough to be heard in order to compete with this competition, or Shadow Bane would be right up there also, and UO would still be in, as well as the origional AC.

No matter how innovative or great you think the pvp system is in the particular game you play, bottom line is that the reason it doesn't have enough votes to be a contender is that not enough people play it. If not enough people play it then I seriously doubt its because all the rest of us can't hack it, its just an outdated or over all inferior game.

I played both Eve and DAOC and I must say EVE is number 1

But thats just my 13 cents

Once again, I'll state that we have no intention of doing negative categories.

EVE pvp easy.

In EVE, you can lose a year's worth of effort by innumerable players over night. You have to not only fight with your weapons by the second, but fight with your brain over a period of weeks or months.

Lots of isk merely oils the gears. Predicting the moves of an opponent is the surest path to.. well staying alive for the next round at any rate. You look at sudden changes in behaviour of your pacific neighbors during a local conflict, and you start to be able to read all sorts of ominous signs into it. Dark Ages does doesn't have the same capacity to inspire paranoia.

EVE's mechanics do have their flaws though. Too much zoning is involved for one thing and no variance in combat environments. Dark Ages is probably a bit smoother in many cases, but that is also because the mechanics of engagement are somewhat simpler as well. EVE is also departing from the massive blob fights that grab the headlines due in part to devs playing catchup with server growth at least. There are lots more guerilla tactics being employed, as well as long term strategic POS conflict. Lag is, ironically, becoming EVE's friend in some way by pushing players out of the overcrowded safe zones. If CCP nerfs the bottlenecks again, we could see a bigger 0.0 population increase. Doubling or increasing the 0.0 population 10 fold without the blobbing would be.. well it would have a tremendous effect on the political makeup of EVE. Especially when not every face in 0.0 is someone at a gate waiting to shoot you. More variance could be a good thing.

EvE ftw!

My 0.01 ISK.

EVE 4tw, dont even try and argue, i'm too l33t  it really is the best MMO i've ever played, pvp and all, and in a lot of ways, the best game i've ever played period

edit: I hear a lot about how people view EVE with it's steep learning curve and the time and energy it takes to be good at it....kinda sad.....its not a game if you just jump in after one night of training or what-not and start pwning noobs left and right, the learning curve makes it feel like you actually accomplish something, and you show me any other game anywhere that lets you have 100+ man fleet battles  its much like naval combat, with fleet manuevering, and i love it, it requires maturity and thought, unlike a lot of games i run into these days.

Still sounds like a lot of you EVE guys commenting about DAoC have never played it, or havent played it recently, its more complex than just "zerg this, zerg that"

---

Originally posted by Gonodil

Still sounds like a lot of you EVE guys commenting about DAoC have never played it, or havent played it recently, its more complex than just "zerg this, zerg that"

---

I don't think StarWars Galaxies should be included in the "Best Story" catagory. SWG is based on a movie. The story line was not created by the game. The game was created by the movie.

To me this catagory should be based on story lines that were created for the game setting, story lines that are unique to the game and created by the game developers.

SWG is the only MMORPG that I know of (excluding the yet-to-be- released StarTrek) that is based on a story created prior to the game development.

The game developers didn't create the StarWars Universe. It was their's for the taking.