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Originally posted by LiveWyre

Well, one thing is for sure. Marvel, the company that was almost bankrupt before its spiderman movie franchise went on a rampage when they realized their untapped source.

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Originally posted by thepatriot
Hmmm, where to begin, so many roadblocks to choose from ...
I believe the success of WoW is what made Lucas Arts force Sony to change to SWG to make it appeal to a wider audience in the hopes of emulating WoW's success. So don't blame Sony for the changes at SWG, of course there are a lot of others issues regarding that game that you can blame them for, but I would bet money that the NGE (or what ever the latest change is called) was 100% Lucas Arts idea.

That's my 2 cents.

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NCSoft didn't make CoH/CoV, Cryptic Studios did. CoH was looking for a publisher far before NCS started making a name for itself.

Decent article, though nothing we didn't know already.

NCSoft is better known for CoH/CoV than Cryptic Studios ;)

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Originally posted by thepatriot
Brad McQuaid help create EQ, but remember he was forced out of EQ because he wouldn't listen to the player base and enjoyed prloninging player grind agony as much as possible.

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I think holding CoH up as the superhero equivalent of WoW ("How will they break CoH's stranglehold on the superhero market") is kind of ridiculous. The subscription base for CoH is a boutique level, and for good reason.
I love supers. I was waiting for CoH for literally a YEAR before it was released. They made a number of decisions that ruined the game for me and a lot of other major supers fans. Of my RL friends who played and enjoyed CoH that I know, 8 out of the 10 have since quit. And all 8 would try another superhero game, branded or unbranded, if it were well designed.
I think of the two the SoE has the better shot. I'd rather play a game designed for PC than one designed for an Xbox. And while SoE doesnt exactly make me dance for joy with their design decisions, I'll take SoE over Brad McQuaid in a flat heartbeat.

One of the big questions is how much money each has for development. To get detailed stories and varied settings and adventures, you need either deep pockets or a REALLY innovative way of creating adventures quickly with a module tool. I think SoE has by far the deeper pockets. Keep in mind SWG was only like the fourth major MMORPG ever made. A lot has been learned about what works and what doesnt. Yes. You can have deep pockets and still screw it up (hello EQ2) but at least you arent shipping it because you no longer have money to polish the game.

And of course, you never know. CoH could grow a brain and release an actual, I dunno, EXPANSION to add desperately needed new content and bring players back. As opposed to an alternate game that adds very little to gameplay for current players and bleeds away players so that there are even fewer people for groups, missions, etc.

Ill tell u that SOE will never put the hands in my money again!

About DC and Marvel Comics, i think Marvel is way better and have the best heroes by far.

To be completely honest I don’t think either of them will be very good at all. Why – MMORPG’s based on existing IP’s are restricted in what they can and can’t do, they have the legions of rabid fans to deal with, often times decades of history  and a (most of the time) very controlling IP owner to deal with on every move they make.

If they are set in the time of the current super hero’s these issues become even more amplified. If they set it in a different time/universe without the well known super hero’s then what is the point of even having the Marvel / DC license?

I really don’t like the trend we are seeing in MMORPG’s at all with regard to existing IP’s being turned into games. SWG, Matrix, D&D, LotR, Star Trek Online and these 2 comic ones (am I missing any?).

Games like these are destined to be static worlds were nothing ever really changes and there is not story arc that evolves and changes the game. Maybe this is what people want – hell WOW is the most static world I have ever seen and people seem to like it.

Could one of these games not fall to the trappings I have listed – maybe? Perhaps DC will take the chance, have the game world evolve; follow the same story lines they are developing in their comics? A game world that is driven by the comics and perhaps some elements from the game world could drive the comics themselves. Have Batman out running around kicking the crap out of baddies instead of standing like a statue for photo ops (screenshots) and handing out quests. What if the ‘big names’ were actually controlled by live people employed by SOE so that you could be out fighting some baddie and Batman happens by stop, help, gives you some crap about needing help and then vanish. Ahhh who am I kidding – it won’t happen, not with SOE at the controls.

As for the Marvel one – Xbox, Microsoft and the king of the raiding mentality for a developer. This just sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Marvel and Microsoft, when two evil meet.  They are going to have a HARD time to convince me to even try their game...especially when it is Brad who is talking!    I am Looking dubiously at the Lawsuits fanbois!

SoE and DC...maybe, maybe not.  I am forgiving for past situations, especially that despite everything that can be thrown at SoE, they always care and try to improve their game.  They often do poorly, but they are trying, it is hard to remain angry at folks who do poorly (eh, remember when they put PINK and got flooded by feedbacks and choose to remove the pink after much H8tred?).  I am looking "indifferently" but interested.  I will throw them a *boogy* for the encouragement! 

CoV and CoH, despite many mistake, they are the best, or less bad, MMOs out there atm.  Imperator was looking to be better, but it is not fleshed out yet...and no idea about near to come MMOs, CoV and CoH are by far the best MMOs out there, to bad there is little end game, but a lack of end game is better than a wrong end game.  I am looking friendly at them and they can count on my subscription for now. 

I got a good chuckle out of this, and I totally agree. :D

There's this, then there's the fact that SOE is one of the most wobbly companies out there right now. It seems that their games have zero stability and I won't be putting any more money on their stuff.

As for the other game, I think that it could go great. This opinion is largely based on having been a fan of the X-Men forever. I'm too cynical about MMORPGs anymore, though, and final opinion is that they're all going to suck. lol.

None of these designers seem to have any imagination. They chuck their franchise off onto some business smuck and it's all down hill from there.

So sad, I'm becoming a MMORPG fatalist.

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Originally posted by Torak
The Marvel on would be the game to go with if I had to pick... Sony will rush the DC and release it incomplete then revamp it after 9 to 14 months. Then maybe again at the 2 year mark for good measure. On top of it they will more then likely stick with the tried and true EQ formula and one way or another we will more then likely end up killing rats to start with "over a thousand quest" (read basic kill task and fedx runs)
Sony DC NPC - "Hello SuperMMO Man, go out and kill 10 Super Rats for me and I will give you 10 Super Pies in return"
Another DC NPC - SuperMMO Man, you must bring this Super letter to NPC X right away...the fate of Superland depends on it. Return to me for a reward of 10 Super pennies!
LoL, I really hope they wouldn't do that.....but you know what they say, Past preformance is the best indicator of future

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Wheeeeeeeeewwwwweeeeeeeyyyy!!!

Who Blew that

 STINKER?!

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Looks like SOE has givin birth yet again to another: *Drum roll please*

DOOMED MMO GAME

The game knowing SOE will have no origionality, be a complete rippoff of CoH/CoV, change some of the names, and wabam! New SOE Creation.

I, will not, nor will i ever.

Buy into that greed enforced corporation, so i will not support this game what so ever.

Mark my words "This will be what it just is now, crap. smell that smell" *breathes deep*

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Just don't let them lick off your tears, when they crush your hopes.

P.S. I am very glad to see the response we get from other people. I cannot thank SOE enough for showing how terrible it is to the industry.

I think DC made a mistake going with SOE. I know far too many people, myself included, who will never ever play another SOE game. Personal issues aside, SOE has failed to capitalize on what should have been the easiest sell ever, a Star Wars MMO. That should say more than enough by itself.

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Originally posted by Wardrop

Should have went with another company. SOE's rep is really terrible. Nothing like playing russian roulette with millions. Gamers arnt that forgiving. But im sure it will appeal to someone. Just not me.

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After what I've read about SWG and my experience with Matrix Online, I'm kind of wary about any $OE MMO period.

What concerns me is the more-fanboi-than-thou attitude that adds to the steaming pile of drama that already happens in a typical MMO. Some people are not drawn to these games because they are huge fans of the franchise. They are drawn to them because they like MMOs but aren't fantasy fans. Games like these are something different to that type of customer. If the fanboys play thier cards right, they might add new fans to Marvel or DC or whatever. Instead, in games like this I've felt alienated.

That's what happened to me in MxO. I don't wanna whine or troll so I'll make this short: It looked different and fun, but I was educated rather harshly that I was not good enough to play because I didn't worship at the altar of Neo. Many people were treated like this and the public forums became a black hole of angst. Not fun. One could argue that $OE did them a favor by deleting the old boards and removing the public section.

The point I'm trying to make is that an exclusive attitude does not help an MMO succeed. Newbies coming to DC Online, or Marvel Online, or STO or whatever maybe just looking for a different game. This doesn't mean kiss every n00b's ass or you have to agree with everything they say. Settle down, agree to disagree, add them to the /iggy list or /report if they're being a prick, and remember it's a game and you're supposed to be having fun.

There are 3 Major players. Yes I called SOE a major player. Time will tell if SOE fails. I am sure Smiley or Smedly will be ousted soon. Will all of their MMORPG's in a downward slant SOE stock holders will call for changes but thats another thing.

SOE & DC Online. Lets leave the fact SOE can kill any good Idea and that they bought EQ their only real claim to fame. The DC Online game is planned to be a full MMORPG where you can play in the game world of DC even go against the DC villians. No way your going to play Batman or any Icon characters. But it will have crafting and resources and skills. Characters will have secret ID's and houses etc. There may even be dependant NPCs to your character. This will be a Full Scale MMORPG un-like the NCsoft 1/4 MMORPG. If SOE makes major changes in the next year and a half DC Online will rocket to success!

Marvel & Microsoft. Because it will be for the 360 in 2008 its hard to tell that it will be much of anything at this time. The upgrades and new features that will be added to the Xbox 360 over the next year will change it from anything we know now. The added PVR and DVD Burner etc are just a few items. By 2008 bandwidth will double and the audio channels for the 360 will be good. The blue tooth controlers are already outstanding. However I am sure any release to the 360 will be dummed down and set for kids. So I don't see any major MMORPG shifts in it.

NCsoft CoH & CoV. NCsoft has been making great profits because its the only Hero game in town. Its lame attempt at adding crafting and super team HQ's was a nice attempt. Their lack of long term play is already showing. Its really fun for about 30 days at a time. An speaking of time its about time they released a full MMORPG where there is crafting, ownership, vehicles, gadgets Secret IDs, loot of somekind if only endorements. I can only hope that they have something in the works to compete because if not there will be a huge challenage to maintain customers.

Plaa

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Originally posted by plaa

SOE & DC Online. Lets leave the fact SOE can kill any good Idea and that they bought EQ their only real claim to fame.

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Sony did not buy EQ.  3 in house employees proposed the idea for the game but the executives at Sony did not know what an MMOG was.  To avoid having Sony directly associated with it's potential failure they created Verant which was owned by Sony to develop the game and Sony remained the publisher.  After EQ was a sucess they re-absorbed Verant into SOE.  As to wether or not they can kill any good idea, the rest of their games prove that.

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Originally posted by plaa

NCsoft CoH & CoV. NCsoft has been making great profits because its the only Hero game in town. Its lame attempt at adding crafting and super team HQ's was a nice attempt. Their lack of long term play is already showing. Its really fun for about 30 days at a time. An speaking of time its about time they released a full MMORPG where there is crafting, ownership, vehicles, gadgets Secret IDs, loot of somekind if only endorements. I can only hope that they have something in the works to compete because if not there will be a huge challenage to maintain customers.

Plaa

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Not everyong is a loot whore and adding crafting to a game to just have crafting is foolish (ala SWG).  Other than Anakin making his own robot and pod racer or Luke making his own lightsaber, there was no crafting going on in the Star Wars movies (don't mistake repairing for crafting, lots of repairing in the movies).  Many fans of CoH love it because there is no loot or idiotic crafting.  Crafting has always been a means to an end not a reason to play for most gamers so as long as we can get it done without crafting there is no need for crafting.  MMOGs should not be a list of features, this leads to bad game design.  They should be designed to make sense within their own continuity and should stick to it.  Crafting is a feature and not a necessity.  Same goes for loot.

I have been playing CoH for going on 2 years now which is twice as long as I have played any other mmog.  It is fun, engaging and to the point.  It does not confuse the player as to what they are supposed to do or add in foolish and ill concieved features and it keeps true to the genre.  I have no faith in SOE's ability to make a fun and engaging game.  Their initial success is due as much to circumstances as to quality of product and they have proven that at best they can make a mediocre game.  SOE has said that about 4.5 million players have tried out Everquest, yet they could not break the 500k subscriber barrier.  A lot of those people won't ever play another SOE game.  Gone are the days when players would try anything that came out just because it was different and gone of the days when players will reward crap with their subscription money.  There are simply too many choices out there now.

I played COH/COV because of my love of comic books....DC and Marvel will both get a try from me when their respective games come out because of that love.

That being said I am well aware of the possible roadblocks to success for each game (SOE and Xbox 360) but if I am to call myself a true comics fan I have to at least take a look at the games that are produced using their IP.

I find COH/COV dull and tedious as the quests are the same in content and locale.
How many times can you fight your way through the exact same office building interior or cave interior to eliminate a boss?
Nevermind the lack of skills, equipment, etc. my one hope would be that the devs of the Marvel and DC games realize that if you are creating a "realistic" game where superheroes battle supervillians those characters need to be able to do more than stand around in costume or construct a base/lair.

Yes the character customization is great but the fact that all superheroes/villains have the same select few powers to choose from just means that the only differences are cosmetic.

The community in COH/COV was the only reason I stayed around as long as I did. The game was completely secondary. Perhaps M$ or $OE will create games that allow me to have more freedom to create a great character. At this point I am willing to wait and see.

=Dan

I am a long time player of CoH and CoV and I have been pretty satisfied with their content thusfar. Yes I do agree with a lot of the complaints people have about the game. But those issues haven't discouraged me enough to run away from it. Maybe its because I myself am a game designer and still have the respect for the complexity and depth CoH has.

To be truthful I'm looking forward to any competition NC or rather Cryptic will get. It has seemed to me that they have become somewhat lax about the new content they have com out with mainly for Coh. I understand they have just released Cov, but it still seems they have neglected their first born. Their attempt in crafting was pretty lame. Only a small percentage of the players can use it and the things you can make arn't even useful for combat unless in the rare occassion your fending off your base.

In my opinion Marvel and DC have quite an advantage to design their games. They have plenty of resources to analyze the strengths and weaknesses of coh and attack what coh lacks in. The character creation in coh is probably the greatest strength in coh and cov. In my opinion, that aspect can still have an abundance of improvement to be shown in.

Obviously DC and Marvel won't be creating games that copy Coh, otherwise there will be another lawsuit and DC and Marvel would be on the receiving end this time. There is plenty of content to take advantage for example the secret identity concept is an interesting idea that would intrigue me. I'm sure plenty of original writers or people can come with even more concepts to take advantage of. Crafting would be an easy one, Bruce Wayne crafted all of his gadgets.

I can't beleive any of these guy are making a design for a console let alone the 360. By the time of their release dates, it seems to me the 360 would somewhat old news with the release of the PS3 and the Revolution. they're already going in with a handicape trying to make an mmog on a console.

Oh well, bottom line is that I am looking forward to the competition. Hopefully it will push all of them to make something bigger and better, which is always better for the consumer. I heard Statesman a while back say something about moving coh to places besides Paragon, like underwater or outerspace areas. Maybe this could be a starting of their sequel, "Universe of Heros."

I imagine that SOE will do the same thing for Superman as Kryptonite did.

As for MS and Marvel well....not sure if good idea just to put it on a 360 console maybe if it is allowed on PCs too it may have a chance.