If they don't do the raiding betrayal, I guess I am ready to forgive them everything.

 

Instancing is a blessing and despite everything logical in me, I know I will play this game as soon as it hit release no matter what they says.  Now, what will determine my long time fun depend on many choices they do, raiding would definitely be a critical mistake.  I don't understand the server mentality however, since the game is instanced, I should be able to group someone from any server.  I don't care if you make me switch server 3 times in the same night, just let's me group with anyone I want anywhere.  Server limitation has a logic when it come down to a persistant world, but D&D is centered around the heroes, not the world, I don't want to be locked with only Afterlife & friends as a possible crew to group, that would blow!

 

I am sure there will be open zones eventually and travel, but just don't expect it at release.  Instancing will always be central in the game and this is a blessing.  I am sure eventually they will add open zones, yet like CoH and EQ2, you will be able to get in any of the 3 versions of the zone...and more if more players.

 

Unless raiding happen in another plane of existence with differents rules and differents stats that have nothing to do with Eberron, in which case I would just avoid this plane and enjoy it.  But if a raider get 1 edge in Eberron groups/solo that I want but can't get without raiding, no doubt I would start hating Turbines beyond comon sense...especially considering they have all their time to judge EQ and WoW and see how few peoples raids on the total amount of players.

 

Rogues are wonderful, they are not damage dealers, warriors are.  But they are wonderful and their sneak attacks are nice in some situation and the level 10 abilities are awesome.

 

Barbarians are the ultimate tanks.  Peoples will stop arguing at last, yes a warrior can tank, like a ranger in EQ!

 

I...can't...resist...the call!  Cyric will rule over Eberron!   To the guy who dare compare D&D with a Blizzard product, I will have your soul! 

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Originally posted by WoodenDummy

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Originally posted by lordtwisted

 As for repetition someone compared DDO...imagine playing WoW as a Night Elf Druid, now play it again as a Night Elf Warrior. See how there was very little change other then the fact that you used a sword rather then a spell this time? Thats DDO.

As for Rogues being important? BS!!!!!! With multi classing everyone can have a level or two of Rogue and fill the role of Rogue. Because most of the important stuff like Pick lock, and disarm trap are first level skills in D&D. Therefore Rogue will be useless, you will just see a lot of lvl8 tanks/lvl2 Rogue. Or lvl9 Wizard/lvl1 Rogue.'s running around.

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Rubbish.

http://www.ddo.com/index.php?page_id=66&pagebuilder[module]=article&pagebuilder[display_item]=141

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 You can say Rubbish all you want, but I had a friend in Alpha, and several friends in beta so I have watched the game quite a bit. The one in Alpha got so tired of playing the same quest over and over he quit testing when the dev team flat out told him there won't be much more then this at release. He said he wasn't going to waste his time testing a game that has the life span of a single player game.

 That was from his mouth not mine. As for the link you posted, you have to remember that while those were written by testers and not Turbine themselves, they will not be published unless they say what Turbine wants them to say. If I write a beta journal saying the game is a piece of poo, are they going to publish it?

 And while that is not written by Turbine, when you submit a beta journal they specifically say they have the right to re-word, and omit anything for any reason. So while not written by Turbine staff, it does not say it was re-written by the Turbine staff.

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Originally posted by Anofalye

I am sure there will be open zones eventually and travel, but just don't expect it at release. 

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But DDO will have travel, just not in the same way we are used to.  You won't run from one zone to another but you will have travel events on your way to a quest.

For example in WoW you get on a ship and travel to a new zone, you stand around doing nothing waiting for a ship and when you get on it you just end up with a loading screen and you get off.  With the DDO travel method you could end up with a attack from pirates or maybe a ghost ship using mobs that don't just wander around wating for someone to kill them.

Why do people want travel in MMOs anyway?  Sure I understand it can help made the world feel real, but running from one place to another being attacked at random by mobs with the AI of a brick does not make the world feel real to me, it makes the world feel boring.  WoW has random PvP of course so it makes more sense but DDO isn't about PvP it is about epic group quests, traps and puzzles, I don't play MMOs and roleplay to feel like I'm in a real world I play to feel like I'm in a book of high adventure.

If people want to play the WoW style of MMO, go play it but don't bash DDO because it has the guts to be different, some of us LIKE what instance quests and travel will give us. (not aimed at the quoted poster above)

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Originally posted by lordtwisted

 You can say Rubbish all you want, but I had a friend in Alpha, and several friends in beta so I have watched the game quite a bit. The one in Alpha got so tired of playing the same quest over and over he quit testing when the dev team flat out told him there won't be much more then this at release. He said he wasn't going to waste his time testing a game that has the life span of a single player game.

 That was from his mouth not mine.

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They are not the only ones in Alpha and Beta.

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Originally posted by DeathWolf2u

The way I see it and the way that it is, 100% instancing is probably the best idea to date and makes complete sense for a D&D game, FACT. The only morons whining about this are the idiots who take great pleasure in griefing other players. Examples of that would be kill stealing, camping spawns, luring hostile creatures and npc's unto other unsuspecting players.

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You just mentioned the things that make an MMO competitive and compelling to play.

EQ1 is, and always will be for me. I just don't have the time for a game that deep anymore...

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Originally posted by WoodenDummy

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Originally posted by lordtwisted

 You can say Rubbish all you want, but I had a friend in Alpha, and several friends in beta so I have watched the game quite a bit. The one in Alpha got so tired of playing the same quest over and over he quit testing when the dev team flat out told him there won't be much more then this at release. He said he wasn't going to waste his time testing a game that has the life span of a single player game.

 That was from his mouth not mine.

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They are not the only ones in Alpha and Beta.

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Its a mess and leave it at that.

DDO will sell big numbers out of the gate, be sure about that.  The D&D name is still a strong brand.

 

However, it will die after the first month when the majority of players (probably a good 55-65%) realize the game isn't deep, levelling is insanely slow, there is only a level 10 cap, and finally and most importantly, that you can burn through all the game's content in about 45 hours!

 

DDO will be dead 4-6 months after release.  Take that to the bank.

About two days after release there are gonna be alot of pissed of customers.

Matrix oline will seem like a masterpiece compared. only the truly desparate to play a game with the D&D name will stay.

I personally think that if people go into DDO expecting a game like WoW or EQ....then yes they will be disappointed.  I personally am going into it looking to play D&D with my friends.  The instancing is great for that.  Ya meet up with your friends in the taverns...find someone ta hire your group...then set out on the task.  This has got to be the first MMO where i actually enjoyed the quests...you have to think and use your heads.  You can't run through the dungeon waving your sword around and expect to survive. 
  To those who are complainin about the combat....I would much rather have combat where I can roll away right when an enemy swings at me to dodge the attack or put up my shield to block...than click...hit a....then 1,2,3,4...ok it's dead.  You have to use strategy in combat so you don't get beat down.  And the monsters running around....that is realistic.  Why in the heck would a monster stay in one spot and let you beat on it?  makes no sence.  the casters actually jump back from melee if they are attacked.  instead of running up and meleeing while casting spells.  And about the clicky combat....you can double click a monster to auto attack....or they have an attack hotkey for auto attacking.  For those complaining about going through it quickly....a long quest done right and cautiously could easily take an hour or more to complete.   And if you are on playing for freakin 10 hours a day....get a job and a girlfriend.  and if you have a girlfriend...you obviously need to be spending more time with her.  Regarding the repetativeness.....EQ2 for example....the only choice you have is either FP or Qeynos...but no matter what class you choice...it's the same quests....and at least the DDO quests aren't...."Go gather 10 gnoll spines and return them to me" ....you have an objective.  Now i haven't played WoW...but from my friends that have played it...the only thing it has goin for it is PvP....they said it's very one sided no matter which way ya go.  But I've never played it myself....so that is second hand info.  
     And to the guy who said that rogues are useless....you will just see a bunch of level 8 tanks/2 rogues.  when you level as a tank....disable device is no longer a class skill...so you have to spend a crap ton of skill points to raise it a little.  so a level 8 whatever/2 rogue will not be able to disable crap in level 10 dungeons. 
And to the guy who said that rogues aren't damage dealers....they might not be at level 1....but by level 10 they can sneak attack for more than a fighter can hit for.  because the fighter will be hitting for maybe 5 more dmg than he did at level 1...maybe a little more if his str got increased.  but a rogue with a nice 5d6 backstab will rock dmg wise.  I wish people would stop comparing this game to other MMO's.  They said from the start that they want to create a D&D game that replicates gettin together with some friends and doin an adventure.  And i think they've done a great job.  but all this is one guys opinion.  listen to it or not.  I just wanted to get it out there.

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Originally posted by Wethril
I personally think that if people go into DDO expecting a game like WoW or EQ....then yes they will be disappointed. 

If they exect a game with any sort of depth at all they will be dissappointed. this game is gonna be about as fake and shallow as paris hilton.

 I personally am going into it looking to play D&D with my friends.  The instancing is great for that.  Ya meet up with your friends in the taverns...find someone ta hire your group...then set out on the task. 

Thirty minutes later you are finished .01 towards next level and preparing to repeat the same quest. woot.

This has got to be the first MMO where i actually enjoyed the quests...you have to think and use your heads.  You can't run through the dungeon waving your sword around and expect to survive.

Yes you can, you claim you are in beta? doubtful! combat is a joke. it is a click war. target mob> strafe around mob while clicking mouse> yay? when in a group its like keystone cops. 

there are no tactics in this game.

  
 To those who are complainin about the combat....I would much rather have combat where I can roll away right when an enemy swings at me to dodge the attack or put up my shield to block...than click...hit a....then 1,2,3,4...ok it's dead.  You have to use strategy in combat so you don't get beat down.  And the monsters running around....that is realistic.

Guildwars clone, zone to inn> zone to town> zone to dungeon> zone to town> zone to inn you will spent most of your play time staring at a load screen. how is that fun?

Why in the heck would a monster stay in one spot and let you beat on it?  makes no sence.  the casters actually jump back from melee if they are attacked.  instead of running up and meleeing while casting spells.  And about the clicky combat....you can double click a monster to auto attack....or they have an attack hotkey for auto attacking.  For those complaining about going through it quickly....a long quest done right and cautiously could easily take an hour or more to complete.   And if you are on playing for freakin 10 hours a day....get a job and a girlfriend.  and if you have a girlfriend...you obviously need to be spending more time with her.  Regarding the repetativeness.....EQ2 for example....the only choice you have is either FP or Qeynos...but no matter what class you choice...it's the same quests

Unless you want to just go and hang out in the wilderness killing monsters right? can you do that in DDO? can you craft? PvP? raid? actually other than CoH/GW style box missions what can you do? nothing right? how can this even be called a MMORPG?

....and at least the DDO quests aren't...."Go gather 10 gnoll spines and return them to me" ....you have an objective. 

yes they are worse. trip lever one and two to open boss door..kill boss.. done

go to dungeon and smash boxees until you find ten rubies...fun? hardly i would think.

Now i haven't played WoW...but from my friends that have played it...the only thing it has goin for it is PvP....they said it's very one sided no matter which way ya go.  But I've never played it myself....so that is second hand info.  

Have you played DDO? you want to give us an opinion on something you have played?

     And to the guy who said that rogues are useless....you will just see a bunch of level 8 tanks/2 rogues.  when you level as a tank....disable device is no longer a class skill...so you have to spend a crap ton of skill points to raise it a little.  so a level 8 whatever/2 rogue will not be able to disable crap in level 10 dungeons.

With the right gear you would be suprised. read the game release rules on the public boards man. read the dev journals. DDO is a trainwreck waiting to happen.

 
And to the guy who said that rogues aren't damage dealers....they might not be at level 1....but by level 10 they can sneak attack for more than a fighter can hit for. because the fighter will be hitting for maybe 5 more dmg than he did at level 1...maybe a little more if his str got increased.  but a rogue with a nice 5d6 backstab will rock dmg wise. 

Maybe. can't say since I dont think there is anyone past lvl 8 in the game atm

 I wish people would stop comparing this game to other MMO's.  They said from the start that they want to create a D&D game that replicates gettin together with some friends and doin an adventure.  And i think they've done a great job.  but all this is one guys opinion.  listen to it or not.  I just wanted to get it out there.

I disagree, I have seen it and read the DDO boards and I think this is probably the worst game ever. the clicky combat is trash. there is no endgame and you could hit cap lvl in under a month if you tried. great game if it was free to play but who is gonna pay a subscription fee for a guildwars clone? 

as an aside.. what should we compare a MMOG to? pac man?

my thoughts in red

First off...yes I have played the game.  Played it for a week for stress testing.  Everyone i talked to and grouped with during that time absolutely loved the game.  And as far as the quests go...I meant use your head as in you can't just run in and kill.  You need someone to scout out a place...find tactical places to engage combat.  You can't just run into a room with 9 kobolds and expect ta wipe the floor with em.  The fact that the only time you can rest in each quest is at a rest shrine...and each shrine can only be used once by each person gives it a nice bit of a challange, though the longer quests have more than one shrine..and some can be hiden behind secret doors.   You burn through the clerics healing or wizard/sorc's mana too quickly and use your shrine too early...you are screwed.  So there is a constant need for caution and strategy.  For those of you who don't like it....don't get it.  It's D&D.  You can't waist all your resources on one fight because in pen and paper because you can't always rest to regain spells.  And there are tons of different quests ta do for each area of the city.  So you don't have to repeat them always ta level.  And if ya do repeat em...yes the dungeon is the same.  In a city...the sewers don't magically shift eveytime someone goes to enter them.  And from the fact that I saw a raid button...i'm sure there is going to be raiding.  Though i'm not a big fan of it myself.  You also need ta look at the storyline.  Each quest advances the story.  In other MMO's....the quests don't really mean crap.  And as far as leveling in other games...going to the right camp spot and pulling and killing the exact same creatures over and over again gets old really fast.  The main thing that draws me to DDO is their almost endless source of content that can be added.  And given...a lot of that is purely on the shoudlers of the developers..it can happen.  I also like the fact that there is a slim chance that you find someone with the exact same build as your character.  All fighters aren't the same.  There are so many combonations you can do with skills/feats.  I also like how they stuck to a lot fo D&D core rules.  They take into account flanking bonuses and such for combat, they have armor check penalties so swimming or sneaking in full plate...well just isn't a good idea.  And for those of you who want the auto attack...there is that option.  Though you are still gonna have to make sure you are facing the monster....sorry if you actually have ta  do a little work to fight stuff.  And combat is very chaotic...monsters running around...people running around....but that is how combat is....it's not always organized.  I just think the game adds a little more realism in the gameplay than some people would like.  But the hardcore D&D nerds out there..me one of them obviously..are going to enjoy it.  For those of you who like the standard MMORPG...just stick with it.  That is fine.  But just because you don't like something doesn't mean it is going to flop.  But only time will tell.

Of course they loved it the first week, it was new.

play it for a few months and you will see where I am coming from.

I just started the WoW 14 day free trial from file planet....and was bored the first couple hours of play.  I have played almost every MMORPG out there...and have gotten bored of them within the first couple weeks.  i stuck with EQ 2 because my friends played it.  and when i wasn't grouping with them....really had no interest in playing.  I played DDO for a week...and still want to play it more.  In that week I got to level 2.  I don't play for hours on end...but I play for a good 3 or 4 hours a day perhaps.  Depending on work and such.  Perhaps this game won't be for those who spends 8+ hours a day playing games.  but for me.  I think it will be perfect.  I'm not tryin ta cause contraversy.  if you don't like it don't play it.  I on the other hand love it.  And i love the character customization.  I love making new characters.  And in EQ 2....you always go to the same places to level and kill the same monsters.  So just because it's not instanced...doesn't mean it is any different that doing the same quests over in DDO.  Just my opinion again.  But the main thing is....if you don't like it don't play it.  Leave it for those of us who will enjoy it.

How much are you being paid by turbine to say those things?

Believe it or not nothing.  I just honestly enjoyed the game and am looking forward to it.

When will turbine learn from there mistakes? never.

they should never have made AC2 and now they are just making carebear games for the crowd.. turbine had it going for them with AC1, absolutly the best pvp nowhere to be found in other mmo's. But instead of sticking with a ORIGINAL CONCEPT and a LOYAL playerbase they turned around 180 degrees and fucked it all up... with no expanded pvp development for AC...

 

TO CONCLUDE... if you want to play YET another flavor of the month game go ahead and join up with DDO... just a little reminder turbine don't give a ratass about there customers, ac1 + ac2 is a living proof of that

 

im never going to be playing a turbine game anymore..

 

 

This is a game that needs to find its direction and soul.  It is either going to be an MMORPG charging a monthly fee or it is going to be a one-time-fee game like Guild Wars where you play in instanced realms.  The questions in this interview were good, but the answers were utter fluff.  I am definitely not looking at this any more.

 

"But instead of sticking with a ORIGINAL CONCEPT and a LOYAL playerbase they turned around 180 degrees and fucked it all up..."

Well said. And you can already tell they're doing the exact same thing here. All this instancing and non-pvp and etc might turn out absolutely great... but even then you know you're dealing with developers who are SICK OF THEIR PROFESSION, who love to fix what aint broke and base their game designs upon bizarre, perverse moral judgements concerning the way things Should and Should Not be.

Frustrated artists who flee from their lack of inspiration to the transparent shelter of a contrived avant-garde. They hate what they do and there's no doubt in my mind they hate us. The parallels here to AC2 are sneering. We know what you want and you're not getting a drop of it. The only thing Turbine know how to do right anymore is give their customers the finger.

"We have a commitment to episodic content and features."

What a god-awful collection of human beings.

They don't even have a commitment to keeping their games running. To the extent that they have a commitment to keeping AC2 running for a *while* they're quite comfortable ending content updates well ahead of the game's planned demise.

It is beyond silly to be disappointed by any of this. If you paid attention to AC2 you expected worse. The only reason to be disappointed is Turbine's involvement in the first place.

Well, I see Ken Troop hasn't changed much at all since his days at AC1.

His answers to those "softball" questions were his standard PR regurgitations from years past.

From what I have been reading about this game, Neither Ken, nor Turbine have learned from thier past mistakes.

Hopefully what I have been reading is wrong as I really think Turbine has the talent to make great games.  It simply seems that thier leadership is time and again unable to rise to the occasion, srand excluded.

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Originally posted by Le_PWN
. But instead of sticking with a ORIGINAL CONCEPT and a LOYAL playerbase they turned around 180 degrees and fucked it all up... with no expanded pvp development for AC...

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Man this really disapoint me as it show that you really was not following a business situation with AC, AC was OWNED by Micro$oft and it was not turbine who decided a course of action they was a jung company that don't have ANY chance to decide what to do!

M$ decided to kill AC and there was nothing turbine can do to prevent it except to delay it by what they was doing, as for AC2 it is also M$ comercial idea and money that decided to do something other as they thinked that investing in AC is not profitable anough. So if you have to hate somone, hate that loading screen that is here to brainwash you every time you open computer!

About DDO ... it is diferent and original kind of MMO and it is more RPG then others at last, Becouse class there is not GIMPED to be able to do PvP, every class fell is drasticly different and roles in group are much more distinct.

About lack of content i can only laugh becouse you can have at 1st lv at your disposition more quality content content then in WoW at lv 60, and you dont need to repeat any dungeon as there is over 140 !!! zones prepared for release, just on start level you have acces to over 40 if not more.

Instancing is great for zones offering you really great adventure in them (there is ton of out of town zones too, isels, forest etc..) and annoying for towns a little bit but if it offer them better posibility to offer lagless towns (anyone raided ironforge?) im all for it.

No crafting, No PvP, No Evil factions, No some classes, No full level as Paper D&D etc... this is all things that can be added in game later, really if it is subscribing based in difference from GW they really have a BIG motivation to keep you paying and what is better then offering you upgrades included in it so all this i really dont consider as important as until i explore what is offered in game is FUN and interesting i will be able to stop paying them if they dont offer something to motivate me more when i start to be bored ;)

It is not a game for everyone, it is great game for people who wish a more inteligent aproach to monster slaying, it is about managing your resources to archive a goal and not about killing 10.000 wolf pups, probaly most suited for mature experienced MMO players who wish to have chalange and can show its skills, not to be obligated to mindless run same Molten Core for 1'000 times, BWL 500 times etc...

It is one refreshing game with many new ideas that wil be nice to try, and it just don't pretend to do it all but try to do what it is doing as best as posible. For PvP i will play something more dinamic ;) but i will for sure give it a run for month or probably more.