Boreing as hell,plain and simple.Ask your self,would you pay for a game then be billed on a monthly basis when all you can do is play with 6 other ppl at a time doing the same things at max lvl over and over again?When people say a game dosent have to compete against another because there so different im dumb founded.Of course it has too your not gonna buy a geo metro that might burst into flames when you can get a ferrari at the same price.

Yes EVERY mmo gets repetive at one point when you run out of content but this thing runs out of content and fun way to fast.If this were 2001-2002 this game might have a chance.We live in the days of blizzard and the 500 million dollar mmo that has added a very good amount of content "no i dont have a wow account anymore"since its launch and a expansion on the horizon.

i like turbine alot and dont regret buying ac2 and playing it a solid 6 months but if this thing launces as is it will bomb just as hard as matirix online.

I am actually kind of disapointed with this interview.  The quesitons asked seemed familiar and so did the responses.  I would have liked to have heard some new information.  All in all the interview and report seems half assed.

- Phaedros

"I asked Ken Troop why, with the similarities in the instancing mechanics between the two, Dungeons and Dragons Online would be charging a monthly fee, while Guild Wars does not. After a moment, this was his reply: “We have a commitment to episodic content and features."

I think Guild Wars adds content and new areas occasionally too. Time will tell if DDO stands out enough to pull players in, that is besides some pnp players, to pay that monthly fee.

---

Originally posted by Brynn

"I asked Ken Troop why, with the similarities in the instancing mechanics between the two, Dungeons and Dragons Online would be charging a monthly fee, while Guild Wars does not. After a moment, this was his reply: “We have a commitment to episodic content and features."
I think Guild Wars adds content and new areas occasionally too. Time will tell if DDO stands out enough to pull players in, that is besides some pnp players, to pay that monthly fee.

---

It is the same thing NC soft is saying about Guild Wars.

As somebody posted before. Everytime somebody writes about this game, i get more dissapointed.

Only 10 levels
Some classes not implemented
No evil alignment
Instancing only

Now they are hinting that players would be able to DM and create content!

Hey Turbine there is NWN 2 comming out !!! Dont you know that !!

All I am saying is that DDO would have to be pretty much miraculous to offset all this bad qualities

---

Originally posted by ciid

Ask your self,would you pay for a game then be billed on a monthly basis when all you can do is play with 6 other ppl at a time doing the same things at max lvl over and over again?

---

If you play online games, you are probably doing that already... I for one consider 12€ a month for one online game better than 60€ a week for single player games, and playing with 6 people at a time is a lot better than playing alone, which is what you mostly do in other "online" games like GW. So yes, I most certainly would.

---

Originally posted by Rattrap

Hey Turbine there is NWN 2 comming out !!! Dont you know that !!

---

Does it allow players to actually upload the new content they have created to official game servers, or is it like NWN 1 where you had to download the modules and just run them on your own machine? Because if it's the latter, it doesn't make any real difference whatsoever. I want to be able to meet people while playing, not to mention the difficulty of actually setting up and running your own game server... argh...

Other than that, I always hated NWN 1 as a game... ugly RTS graphics, laggy as hell, bad controls, no story... it was just boring monster bashing and Dungeon Siege did even that so much better...

---

Originally posted by Rattrap 

As somebody posted before. Everytime somebody writes about this game, i get more dissapointed.

Only 10 levels
Some classes not implemented
No evil alignment
Instancing only

---

Seems to me that everytime I see someone post outside of the offical boards about DDO they miss the point. It's not trying to be like every other MMO out there and I for one am glad to see that DDO isn't another WoW clone.

- Only 10 levels. DDO does not have only 10 stages of advancement. It has many smaller stages of advancement within each level that let you gain more skills and work on the character stats that you created at the start of the game. Now I don't have to buy a set of full plate mail to get a stupid + to my Agi that makes no sense. The full levels are the landmark advancemeant stages.

- Missing classes. They won't be there from the start no, but all the basic ones are in there and when I read about the work being done for the basic classes I can't wait. At last I can play a rogue that is a vital member of the group, disarming deadly traps (not just traps that puff smoke at you when you open a chest), hiding in shadows ready to support the group I am with.

- No evil alignment. That is a fair point, but it could make it harder for people to form groups and not all players are hardcore roleplayers like me and they don't always care about stuff like this.

- Instancing only. This is the whole point as to why DDO is going to stand out over the WoW clones! Have you read some of the things they are doing with the quests? It's nothing like GW, it will have scripted attacks on your party while you travel by boat to your quest, attacks from bandits on the road etc etc. They are also aiming for better mob AI, say you're trying to steal a item from a group of trolls resting by a fire. If the trolls know you're coming they will be on the look out for you, keeping an eye open and moving around maybe even looking and searching for you. If they don't know you're coming they will be resting by the fire, maybe talking or sleeping with no idea that you're there. Mobs won't just be "linked" anymore, they will come and aid each other if they see or hear something out of the norm. You can shoot arrows into walls to make them head off looking for the noise. In dungeons groups will split up to cover different tasks to aid the group and find each other on the way though the dungeon to join back up again. As for only playing with 6 people most people end up doing that in MMOs anyway and at least this time I'll be in a instance away from "lolz ar u a rollplayaz?" and waiting for a mob to spawn.

Will it be perfect? I doubt it, but I'm so happy that at least a few people are trying to be something other than a WoW clone and then missing the point as to way WoW was such a hit in the first place

The problem I have heard of with DDO is the quest repetition. From what I have heard the quest are always the same. so replay value of this game is zero. 

  From what I was told once you have played one class/race combo you may never want to play the game again because to build another class/race combo you will have to do all of these same quest over again exactly the same.

 Ken Troop and other members of the dev team and community argue that every MMO is repetitive <we are trying to get away from the traditional MMO> but this game takes repetition to a whole new level, atleast ine other MMO's you have diffrent starting quest, diffrent pathes you can take. Most MMO's give you some freedom as to where you wish to go. DDO you go where they want you to go.

 I think my biggest problem with DDO is Turbine, while Turbine has made a beautiful game, a game that the first play through WILL impress the heck out of you and make you want more. Why would they still pretend to listen to the public opinions of a the forums and chat rooms that Dev's actually hang out in and not take their advice to look at the game in a whole and fix this problem before release? I think Turbine is a very talented and brillent company just being misled into thinking they can make a state of the art MMO when the direction they are going is makeing an MMO with a 6 month life span. I give DDO 1 year tops without major changes.

---

Originally posted by DeathWolf2u

The way I see it and the way that it is, 100% instancing is probably the best idea to date and makes complete sense for a D&D game, FACT. The only morons whining about this are the idiots who take great pleasure in griefing other players. Examples of that would be kill stealing, camping spawns, luring hostile creatures and npc's unto other unsuspecting players.

So shut your whining big mouths up and go buy a couple of boxes of tissues you little whining tards. Been reading several post from idiots who are crying like little babies about this. It's more than evident you have no clue what D&D pen and paper is.

 

 

---

While I agree with your statement that instancing really contributes to the D&D feel, you are dead wrong on why the majority of people have a problem with it. The community-building aspect of a game tends to take a big hit when instancing is wholly prevalent (Guild Wars, anyone?), which is something I can understand as well.

Good job stereotyping, 'tard'.

While instanceing makes little diffrence to me. I tend to play games my own way and too many people in a zone can be a pain. I lean towards likeing the instanceing, when it comes to quest. But why instance the out of quest zones. The whole town is broken into diffrent instances, for what reason?

 From what I have read DDO is makeing an attempt at building the best community by reduceing it's server population. I agree with them that small server populations makes for a better community. It allows you to actually get to know people you play with rather then grouping with whole new people everytime you get in a group.  I am however confused. You take a MMO built for community by limiting server populations to say 500 people. Then you divide the town up into 50 zones, you get people leveling at their own pace and end up with people evenly spread out among the zones. Now you have 10 people in each zone, all from diffrent time zones, now who are you going to group with? Go back a zone and group with people lower then you to do a quest you have done 5 times already? Now you spent the night helping others, but since you are higher level you destroyed their experience, and got none for yourself. Your higher level has probablly ruined the loot drops too.

 So now in your attempt to enjoy the night by helping other because you could not play at your own level due to the lack of people on the server, you just ruined a couple quest for some people lower then you...hmmm, sounds like it will be a great community...

---

Originally posted by WoodenDummy

Originally posted by Rattrap
As somebody posted before. Everytime somebody writes about this game, i get more dissapointed.
Only 10 levelsSome classes not implementedNo evil alignmentInstancing only

Seems to me that everytime I see someone post outside of the offical boards about DDO they miss the point. It's not trying to be like every other MMO out there and I for one am glad to see that DDO isn't another WoW clone.
- Only 10 levels. DDO does not have only 10 stages of advancement. It has many smaller stages of advancement within each level that let you gain more skills and work on the character stats that you created at the start of the game. Now I don't have to buy a set of full plate mail to get a stupid + to my Agi that makes no sense. The full levels are the landmark advancemeant stages.
- Missing classes. They won't be there from the start no, but all the basic ones are in there and when I read about the work being done for the basic classes I can't wait. At last I can play a rogue that is a vital member of the group, disarming deadly traps (not just traps that puff smoke at you when you open a chest), hiding in shadows ready to support the group I am with.
- No evil alignment. That is a fair point, but it could make it harder for people to form groups and not all players are hardcore roleplayers like me and they don't always care about stuff like this.
- Instancing only. This is the whole point as to why DDO is going to stand out over the WoW clones! Have you read some of the things they are doing with the quests? It's nothing like GW, it will have scripted attacks on your party while you travel by boat to your quest, attacks from bandits on the road etc etc. They are also aiming for better mob AI, say you're trying to steal a item from a group of trolls resting by a fire. If the trolls know you're coming they will be on the look out for you, keeping an eye open and moving around maybe even looking and searching for you. If they don't know you're coming they will be resting by the fire, maybe talking or sleeping with no idea that you're there. Mobs won't just be "linked" anymore, they will come and aid each other if they see or hear something out of the norm. You can shoot arrows into walls to make them head off looking for the noise. In dungeons groups will split up to cover different tasks to aid the group and find each other on the way though the dungeon to join back up again. As for only playing with 6 people most people end up doing that in MMOs anyway and at least this time I'll be in a instance away from "lolz ar u a rollplayaz?" and waiting for a mob to spawn.
Will it be perfect? I doubt it, but I'm so happy that at least a few people are trying to be something other than a WoW clone and then missing the point as to way WoW was such a hit in the first place

---

All right , this is from one MMORPG player and D&D nerd to another.

-Only 10 levels
- The problem with this is not that there is only 10 levels. The problem is D&D ruleset nature.
Only 10 levels means only 4 feats. Just 1 speciality feat for rogue. Only 2 levels in the prestigue class....level 5 max level spell ...etc. The classes in 3.5e D&D get most of special abilities that make them unique after level 10 (which is also known as mid level)

-Missing classes and races.
- Yes they said it will be implemented later - And this statement is the bane of many mmorpg player. "It will be implemented later." - I heared that one time to many. Also did you not noticed which class is missing - DRUID. This means that developers are didnt manage to resolve shapeshifting functionality in the game. Meaning that polyform spells are probably missing aswell... And that is a big chunk of D&D cake

-No Evil Alignment
- DDO was suspicios to me when they announced that it will be first action combat MMORPG. No evil alignment is just putting the nail to serious roleplayers coffin... I mean only reason I would play this game is to be sorounded with original D&D roleplayers. And i think that restriccting alignments only shows to me and the others what limonade roleplay DDO is aiming at.

-Instancing only.
- I have nothing against instancing buddy. Some instancing is a very good idea , but ... Full instanced game is no diferent than network game. There is apsolutely no excuse that full instanced game demands same monthly fee as non instanced MMO. And I am not touching here horrible failures of instancing -( like complete disability to find any normal party of players (except if you dont play with your buddies, but not all people do that) Than when you finnaly find one - you find yourself running trough quests in maximum speed with bunch of moron players that you never met before and probably never wish to meet again.... sounds familiar ? )

Finnaly word about NWN and NWN2

Sure NWN had bad official singleplayer. Bioware admited that they spend so much time coding the engine they couldnt invest lot in game story. On the end NWN single play campain ended as more of a showcase of what engine can do....

NWN2 is going to have fantastic graphic. Obsidian is writting the story (Planscape torment , KOTOR 2)
It is going to be 3.5E D&D - with all levels and rules implemented ;) . Support for bigger persistant worlds .... And no monthly fee

NWN2 and Elder scrolls Oblivion will rock RPG world...

---

Originally posted by Rattrap

All right , this is from one MMORPG player and D&D nerd to another.

-Only 10 levels
- The problem with this is not that there is only 10 levels. The problem is D&D ruleset nature.
Only 10 levels means only 4 feats. Just 1 speciality feat for rogue. Only 2 levels in the prestigue class....level 5 max level spell ...etc. The classes in 3.5e D&D get most of special abilities that make them unique after level 10 (which is also known as mid level)

-Missing classes and races.
- Yes they said it will be implemented later - And this statement is the bane of many mmorpg player. "It will be implemented later." - I heared that one time to many. Also did you not noticed which class is missing - DRUID. This means that developers are didnt manage to resolve shapeshifting functionality in the game. Meaning that polyform spells are probably missing aswell... And that is a big chunk of D&D cake

-No Evil Alignment
- DDO was suspicios to me when they announced that it will be first action combat MMORPG. No evil alignment is just putting the nail to serious roleplayers coffin... I mean only reason I would play this game is to be sorounded with original D&D roleplayers. And i think that restriccting alignments only shows to me and the others what limonade roleplay DDO is aiming at.

-Instancing only.
- I have nothing against instancing buddy. Some instancing is a very good idea , but ... Full instanced game is no diferent than network game. There is apsolutely no excuse that full instanced game demands same monthly fee as non instanced MMO. And I am not touching here horrible failures of instancing -( like complete disability to find any normal party of players (except if you dont play with your buddies, but not all people do that) Than when you finnaly find one - you find yourself running trough quests in maximum speed with bunch of moron players that you never met before and probably never wish to meet again.... sounds familiar ? )

Finnaly word about NWN and NWN2

Sure NWN had bad official singleplayer. Bioware admited that they spend so much time coding the engine they couldnt invest lot in game story. On the end NWN single play campain ended as more of a showcase of what engine can do....

NWN2 is going to have fantastic graphic. Obsidian is writting the story (Planscape torment , KOTOR 2)
It is going to be 3.5E D&D - with all levels and rules implemented ;) . Support for bigger persistant worlds .... And no monthly fee

NWN2 and Elder scrolls Oblivion will rock RPG world...

---

I do agree with your points Rattrap, I just see some of the good points to what they are doing as well.  I guess I'll have to wait till feb to see if they have pulled it off.

Oh and yes Oblivion is going to be great!

---

Originally posted by lordtwisted

misled into thinking they can make a state of the art MMO when the direction they are going is makeing an MMO with a 6 month life span. I give DDO 1 year tops without major changes.

---

If it takes me 3 months to get through the content, and another 2-3 months to do it two or three times more before Im tired of repetition, I will have gotten about 5 months of total enjoyment in addition to the excitment of the first run though.  That is easily worth the money I spend on subscriptions it as long as it is a more interesting and immersive than a subscription-less Guild Wars. 

It took me about 3-4 months to get burned out on the PvE content  of GW (played through it almost 3 1/2 times).  GW was fun for this time but it has several Very Big dissapointments: an 'empty feeling' on maps that never lead into buildings or underground or into caves or... this creates a  'pointless to explore' feeling you get from all of the maps.  GW PvE is litterally about traveling along a LINE (disguised by terrtain) from Point A to point B while perhaps accomplishing some Monster Kill or NPC-Find/Escort along the way.  It is extremely linear and shallow and there is no room for creative player deviation from the path.  Yet I was still entertained for months, even while being somewhat disappointed. 

DDO will offer much more interesting and varied options even though I suspect the Adventure Objectives will ultimately be a repetitive check-list of 'To Dos'.  As soon as I bore of it, I cancel my subscription and wait for new content, levels and classes to be added, then I will re-sub for a couple months to play it all then cancel.  Its really a simple concept.  Only pay while you are being entertained and don't expect to be entertained for more than a few months at a time.  There are other games to play if you seek additional CRPG entertainment!  I'll likely be playing NWN2 as well, and still going back to GW for its PvP.

Dont get me wrong.

I am the first one in line to buy and play DDO - but only because i am a sucker for D&D.

At the rate DDO hype is going right now i see the game as

City of Heroes with action combat, slightly improved quests - packed and flawored with D&D taste...

IMHO

Things DDO is doing right : Smaller servers - closer comunities , advanced quests (but it is to early to tell), ROGUES are important class :)

Things DDO is not doing right : Action combat (It is neat and all - but it is surely not what D&D players are looking for) , total instancing (instanced dungeons are ok , but instanced world - wrong) , lack of levels , lack of classes, lack of races, lack of crafting, lack of alignments, lack of option to pvp or at least duel

What can suprise us: Revolutionary way DDO handles quests , action combat might be fun

I guess we will have to wait and see

---

Originally posted by Trullyn
The quests (dungeons) are the only instanced piece, the world (city) is open.

---

One problem is the World is just a city, no outdoor exploration.

Another problem is the Combat. As demonstrated at GenCon it was just a clickfest, it felt like Gauntlet 3D not D&D.

Have you heard of the Bartle Test? A personality profile that rates/classifies mmorpg players in four categories:
Achiever
Explorer
Socializer
Killer

Achievers will be disappointed by the 10 lvl limit in DDO.
Explorers will be disappointed by the total instancing (no world to explore).
Socializers will be disappointed by the lack of roleplaying support.
Killers, well there is No PVP. Think they'll be happy?

---

Originally posted by Trullyn
The quests (dungeons) are the only instanced piece, the world (city) is open.

---

From the forums there isn't really a world, just a city, and the city has several zones, therefore it's all instanced.

 As for repetition someone compared DDO...imagine playing WoW as a Night Elf Druid, now play it again as a Night Elf Warrior. See how there was very little change other then the fact that you used a sword rather then a spell this time? Thats DDO.

As for Rogues being important? BS!!!!!! With multi classing everyone can have a level or two of Rogue and fill the role of Rogue. Because most of the important stuff like Pick lock, and disarm trap are first level skills in D&D. Therefore Rogue will be useless, you will just see a lot of lvl8 tanks/lvl2 Rogue. Or lvl9 Wizard/lvl1 Rogue.'s running around.

 Turbine had a wonderful vision, but some where along the way got their eyes gouged out by a minotaur.

---

Originally posted by Vizier

---

Originally posted by Trullyn
The quests (dungeons) are the only instanced piece, the world (city) is open.

---

One problem is the World is just a city, no outdoor exploration.

Another problem is the Combat. As demonstrated at GenCon it was just a clickfest, it felt like Gauntlet 3D not D&D.

Have you heard of the Bartle Test? A personality profile that rates/classifies mmorpg players in four categories:
Achiever
Explorer
Socializer
Killer

Achievers will be disappointed by the 10 lvl limit in DDO.
Explorers will be disappointed by the total instancing (no world to explore).
Socializers will be disappointed by the lack of roleplaying support.
Killers, well there is No PVP. Think they'll be happy?

---

---

Originally posted by lordtwisted

 As for repetition someone compared DDO...imagine playing WoW as a Night Elf Druid, now play it again as a Night Elf Warrior. See how there was very little change other then the fact that you used a sword rather then a spell this time? Thats DDO.

As for Rogues being important? BS!!!!!! With multi classing everyone can have a level or two of Rogue and fill the role of Rogue. Because most of the important stuff like Pick lock, and disarm trap are first level skills in D&D. Therefore Rogue will be useless, you will just see a lot of lvl8 tanks/lvl2 Rogue. Or lvl9 Wizard/lvl1 Rogue.'s running around.

---

Rubbish.

http://www.ddo.com/index.php?page_id=66&pagebuilder[module]=article&pagebuilder[display_item]=141

If they don't do the raiding betrayal, I guess I am ready to forgive them everything.

Instancing is a blessing and despite everything logical in me, I know I will play this game as soon as it hit release no matter what they says.  Now, what will determine my long time fun depend on many choices they do, raiding would definitely be a critical mistake.  I don't understand the server mentality however, since the game is instanced, I should be able to group someone from any server.  I don't care if you make me switch server 3 times in the same night, just let's me group with anyone I want anywhere.  Server limitation has a logic when it come down to a persistant world, but D&D is centered around the heroes, not the world, I don't want to be locked with only Afterlife & friends as a possible crew to group, that would blow!

I am sure there will be open zones eventually and travel, but just don't expect it at release.  Instancing will always be central in the game and this is a blessing.  I am sure eventually they will add open zones, yet like CoH and EQ2, you will be able to get in any of the 3 versions of the zone...and more if more players.

Unless raiding happen in another plane of existence with differents rules and differents stats that have nothing to do with Eberron, in which case I would just avoid this plane and enjoy it.  But if a raider get 1 edge in Eberron groups/solo that I want but can't get without raiding, no doubt I would start hating Turbines beyond comon sense...especially considering they have all their time to judge EQ and WoW and see how few peoples raids on the total amount of players.

Rogues are wonderful, they are not damage dealers, warriors are.  But they are wonderful and their sneak attacks are nice in some situation and the level 10 abilities are awesome.

Barbarians are the ultimate tanks.  Peoples will stop arguing at last, yes a warrior can tank, like a ranger in EQ!

I...can't...resist...the call!  Cyric will rule over Eberron!   To the guy who dare compare D&D with a Blizzard product, I will have your soul! 

---

Originally posted by WoodenDummy

---

Originally posted by lordtwisted

 As for repetition someone compared DDO...imagine playing WoW as a Night Elf Druid, now play it again as a Night Elf Warrior. See how there was very little change other then the fact that you used a sword rather then a spell this time? Thats DDO.

As for Rogues being important? BS!!!!!! With multi classing everyone can have a level or two of Rogue and fill the role of Rogue. Because most of the important stuff like Pick lock, and disarm trap are first level skills in D&D. Therefore Rogue will be useless, you will just see a lot of lvl8 tanks/lvl2 Rogue. Or lvl9 Wizard/lvl1 Rogue.'s running around.

---

Rubbish.

http://www.ddo.com/index.php?page_id=66&pagebuilder[module]=article&pagebuilder[display_item]=141

---

 You can say Rubbish all you want, but I had a friend in Alpha, and several friends in beta so I have watched the game quite a bit. The one in Alpha got so tired of playing the same quest over and over he quit testing when the dev team flat out told him there won't be much more then this at release. He said he wasn't going to waste his time testing a game that has the life span of a single player game.

 That was from his mouth not mine. As for the link you posted, you have to remember that while those were written by testers and not Turbine themselves, they will not be published unless they say what Turbine wants them to say. If I write a beta journal saying the game is a piece of poo, are they going to publish it?

 And while that is not written by Turbine, when you submit a beta journal they specifically say they have the right to re-word, and omit anything for any reason. So while not written by Turbine staff, it does not say it was re-written by the Turbine staff.

---

Originally posted by Anofalye

I am sure there will be open zones eventually and travel, but just don't expect it at release. 

---

But DDO will have travel, just not in the same way we are used to.  You won't run from one zone to another but you will have travel events on your way to a quest.

For example in WoW you get on a ship and travel to a new zone, you stand around doing nothing waiting for a ship and when you get on it you just end up with a loading screen and you get off.  With the DDO travel method you could end up with a attack from pirates or maybe a ghost ship using mobs that don't just wander around wating for someone to kill them.

Why do people want travel in MMOs anyway?  Sure I understand it can help made the world feel real, but running from one place to another being attacked at random by mobs with the AI of a brick does not make the world feel real to me, it makes the world feel boring.  WoW has random PvP of course so it makes more sense but DDO isn't about PvP it is about epic group quests, traps and puzzles, I don't play MMOs and roleplay to feel like I'm in a real world I play to feel like I'm in a book of high adventure.

If people want to play the WoW style of MMO, go play it but don't bash DDO because it has the guts to be different, some of us LIKE what instance quests and travel will give us. (not aimed at the quoted poster above)

---

Originally posted by lordtwisted

 You can say Rubbish all you want, but I had a friend in Alpha, and several friends in beta so I have watched the game quite a bit. The one in Alpha got so tired of playing the same quest over and over he quit testing when the dev team flat out told him there won't be much more then this at release. He said he wasn't going to waste his time testing a game that has the life span of a single player game.

 That was from his mouth not mine.

---

---

Originally posted by DeathWolf2u

The way I see it and the way that it is, 100% instancing is probably the best idea to date and makes complete sense for a D&D game, FACT. The only morons whining about this are the idiots who take great pleasure in griefing other players. Examples of that would be kill stealing, camping spawns, luring hostile creatures and npc's unto other unsuspecting players.

---

You just mentioned the things that make an MMO competitive and compelling to play.

EQ1 is, and always will be for me. I just don't have the time for a game that deep anymore...