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Asheron's Call 2 : Fallen Kings

Asheron's Call 2 

General Discussion  » The Turbine CEO is a LIAR

15 posts found
  Trimethicon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/05/04
Posts: 45

 
OP  10/19/05 6:43:17 PM#1

He lied on G4TV about the demise of AC2, claiming that it just wasn't what people wanted and that they were never able to attract the population they needed to keep the game going??!?!?!?!?!?

Hey Jeff,

How about chat being down for 2 weeks?

Or, re-writing every single class tree? I bought the guide for AC2 at launch and there isn't a single class tree that is the same today?

How about the failed idea of the players re-building the world? That failed - the world was empty, and lacked an economy as well.

Crafting was borked from the beginning and never recovered.

The much heralded Hero system was broken and needed to be redone.

Bugs and exploits galore allowed players to out-level the content early on leaving higher level players bored.

Zero content but to do the same quests over and over - boots again!

Do I need to go on?????????????

The gamers didn't fail AC2 - you failed the gamers.

And now I'm watching both DDO and LOTRO with caution and concern.

  Elapsed

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2343

10/20/05 12:48:49 PM#2

Yes, it has been established that he has been very lamely diverting the blame. On another web site he stated AC2 failed because they lost some subscribers when they migrated accounts.

  JoshFatal

Novice Member

Joined: 9/13/04
Posts: 42

10/20/05 3:41:37 PM#3

Did any of you notice that D&DO and LotRO seem kind of... uninspired?

Mainly Lord of the Rings.

First, it was originally "Middle Earth Online." They changed the name basically to attract more subscribers. You can't play as any of the evil races, and so far, everything I've heard about the game just sounded really dull and done before. However, it has the world of Middle Earth in it, so people will buy it.

Now, maybe it will be a good game. I'm not saying it's going to be BAD. However, it saddens me that Turbine originally tried making a very unique MMO experience for us, and then basically dropped it like a hot potato and went on to making two generic MMOs - with almost the same exact setting - with a name on it that will encourage fans to buy them.

I don't like accusing game companies of this normally, but it just sounds like to me Turbine's primary goal here is to just turn a profit. Yeah, I know... ALL companies are about that, but I've also seen many MMOs in the past actually make an effort to be somewhat different. Even WoW, which doesn't bring too much new to the table, managed to pull off a unique flavor for players. Turbine tried doing the same with both Asheron's Call titles. They seemed to pour so much effort into AC2, doing what they could (albeit poorly) to fix up the game and make it better, and all for what? Seriously, this game was like the Vietnam of MMORPGs.

And then they have the nerve to give us BS like how they couldn't attract enough population. I don't remember seeing a SINGLE ad for this game anywhere. Would it have killed Turbine to invest a little more in a decent advertising campaign?? I thought that's what they were gonna do with the expansion. Instead, they release an expansion and think that's going to be enough. Turbine is clueless.

What really insults me is that Turbine would just rather can the entire project for good rather than release the game to us in a non-MMO form. I would gladly fork over another $50 to get a version of AC2 that I could play over LAN or TCP/IP with a few other players. Let the players host their own mini-servers, and even better: Let us tweak the game to how we see fit. In no time at all, players would be releasing their own updates and patches to the game, if only Turbine would LET US.

But no, instead they're going to toss the whole thing in the garbage, leave the trainwreck that is AC1 running, and instead focus on two very uninspired fantasy games themed after the generic fantasy template LotR and D&D set for all games to come.

When AC2 was still in development, I was excited as all hell to play it. It was the one MMO I was really looking forward to playing. When it came out, I was quite disappointed, but I always watched the development of the game from afar, knowing that some day it'd become a lot better than it was at launch. I was willing to forgive all the mistakes made as long as I'd be able to enjoy it in the future. So much for that!

In short: Fuck you, Turbine. Never before have I felt the need to boycott a company until now. It takes a lot to be even more clueless and unprofessional than SOE, but you guys have managed it. Again: Fuck you, Turbine.

  Trimethicon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/05/04
Posts: 45

 
OP  10/20/05 9:25:50 PM#4

I agree with you.

I really, really wanted AC2 to do well. I thought that they really brought some unique class options to the genre with AC2 - the Tact was super cool, I crapped my pants the first time I grouped with one. And even the Hivekeeper was pretty cool.

I would still love to see AC2 survive somehow, I had a 52 Ranger and some other alts but in the end Turbine just screwed up that game so badly that no one wanted to go near the steaming pile of shit that they laid on us.

I'm staring at the AC2 Legions box on my desk, I was hoping that they would turn things around but once I logged in and was rubber-banded I just quit and canceled the game. Rubber-banding was an issue from the very beginning and something that they promised to fix but never did.

Anytime an MMOG tries to take am offical license and make it an MMOG they fail; look at MxO, SWG, etc. The problem is that you can't stay true to the license and make a good MMOG. Anything cool that could be considered for LOTRO will be thrown out because it doesn't fit into the Tolkien universe, I mean c'mon they won't even have magic caster classes in the game. The LOTRO website has a pick of a player attacking a bear with a wooden club.......do we really have to go back to clubbing bears, bats and cows in newbie zones in LOTRO?

LOTRO is doomed and DDO will struggle to reach 100k subscribers.

  User Deleted
10/20/05 11:48:07 PM#5

Originally posted by JoshFatal

Did any of you notice that D&DO and LotRO seem kind of... uninspired?

Mainly Lord of the Rings.

First, it was originally "Middle Earth Online." They changed the name basically to attract more subscribers. You can't play as any of the evil races, and so far, everything I've heard about the game just sounded really dull and done before. However, it has the world of Middle Earth in it, so people will buy it.

Now, maybe it will be a good game. I'm not saying it's going to be BAD. However, it saddens me that Turbine originally tried making a very unique MMO experience for us, and then basically dropped it like a hot potato and went on to making two generic MMOs - with almost the same exact setting - with a name on it that will encourage fans to buy them.

I don't like accusing game companies of this normally, but it just sounds like to me Turbine's primary goal here is to just turn a profit. Yeah, I know... ALL companies are about that, but I've also seen many MMOs in the past actually make an effort to be somewhat different. Even WoW, which doesn't bring too much new to the table, managed to pull off a unique flavor for players. Turbine tried doing the same with both Asheron's Call titles. They seemed to pour so much effort into AC2, doing what they could (albeit poorly) to fix up the game and make it better, and all for what? Seriously, this game was like the Vietnam of MMORPGs.

And then they have the nerve to give us BS like how they couldn't attract enough population. I don't remember seeing a SINGLE ad for this game anywhere. Would it have killed Turbine to invest a little more in a decent advertising campaign?? I thought that's what they were gonna do with the expansion. Instead, they release an expansion and think that's going to be enough. Turbine is clueless.

What really insults me is that Turbine would just rather can the entire project for good rather than release the game to us in a non-MMO form. I would gladly fork over another $50 to get a version of AC2 that I could play over LAN or TCP/IP with a few other players. Let the players host their own mini-servers, and even better: Let us tweak the game to how we see fit. In no time at all, players would be releasing their own updates and patches to the game, if only Turbine would LET US.

But no, instead they're going to toss the whole thing in the garbage, leave the trainwreck that is AC1 running, and instead focus on two very uninspired fantasy games themed after the generic fantasy template LotR and D&D set for all games to come.

When AC2 was still in development, I was excited as all hell to play it. It was the one MMO I was really looking forward to playing. When it came out, I was quite disappointed, but I always watched the development of the game from afar, knowing that some day it'd become a lot better than it was at launch. I was willing to forgive all the mistakes made as long as I'd be able to enjoy it in the future. So much for that!

In short: Fuck you, Turbine. Never before have I felt the need to boycott a company until now. It takes a lot to be even more clueless and unprofessional than SOE, but you guys have managed it. Again: Fuck you, Turbine.


Completely argee with you. Turbine is the second worse run MMORPG company out there next to SOE. I will never buy/support any game made by them. Its a shame to, AC was a great game in its time and AC2 could have been ground breaking. To bad Turbine has the attention span of a 3 year old child and moved on to developing 2 more MMORPGs while letting their exsisting ones crash.
  JoshFatal

Novice Member

Joined: 9/13/04
Posts: 42

10/21/05 12:38:11 AM#6

Well, personally, I thought SWG was a really cool game.

Now, it may have been flawed, but it was pretty unique. Whether you guys hated or absolutely LOATHED it, try to see it this way: SOE took a license and made a creative, unique game out of it. As buggy as it was and as disappointing as it may have been for some of you, at least they had a GOOD IDEA.

What the hell is LotR doing?? Turbine's only "creative" idea for that was that stupid "U LVL WEN UR OFFLINE LOL!!!" crap, and even THAT they scrapped. I would say Turbine is just scarred from AC2 and feels that any attempt at straying away from the beaten path ends in failure, but the OP already hit the nail on the head on how Turbine feels: It's all our fault!

See, I feel for SWG as I did for AC2. It had problems, it had glaring flaws, but it also had potential. They're still doing everything in their power to fix SWG. To a MUCH lesser extent, Turbine was doing that as well... and then they gave up. Fuck you, Tur-- Oh wait, I already said that. Twice. What I was getting at, was I'm willing to show both games patience as long as they have the potential to improve.

What is another fantasy MMO-ripoff going to bring to the table? As awesome as it will be to explore Middle Earth, that novelty's gonna wear off REAL quick when I'm doing corpse runs through Mordor because Turbine knows that corpse retrival is what "the big boys" do to keep their subscribers playing. (Just a speculation.) And D&D? Have we honestly run out of ideas to the point where we need an MMO of the grandfather game that inspired all other MMOs? Is Neverwinter Nights just not good enough?

People are gonna get D&DO thinking it's going to be a large-scale version of the tabletop game they played... but will it really? Will players actually get to host their own games? Will Turbine actually take a few pages out of Bioware's book and make the system as close to D&D as possible?

I considered myself a loyal customer to Turbine. Sure, I wasn't subscribed to either of their games, nor did I even get that far in either of them, but in essense I still stuck by them. If me and the AC series were a relationship, it would have ended with me deciding that this just wasn't the right time for us, that we both had some growing up to do (The game needed some work, and I needed to make time to commit to it) as opposed to things ending with a huge fight and me throwing it up to AC's face that I faked every orgasm.

Turbine has one last chance for myself (and probably a lot of us, I'd imagine.) If they released AC2 as an offline/non-massive online game, I will forgive them. I can understand when things don't work out, as long as they don't give up on their customers. Those of us still interested in the game would love to continue playing it, no matter what. And providing us with another means of playing it, in my eyes, would not be giving up.

Otherwise, to hell with Turbine. They'd rather pursue more profitable ventures than continue working on a game they drove into the ground. I can only pray there will be a group of people clever enough to build an AC2 server emulator.

In the mean time, there's no way in hell I'm going to resubscribe to AC1 ever again.

  User Deleted
10/21/05 3:41:09 AM#7

I think we feel the same way but for different reasons. I think that Turbine is basicly poorly managed because they simply bite off more then they can chew. Why did they not only go for a 3rd MMORPG title but a 4th as well. Meanwhile the ship that is AC1 sinks into the harbor and AC2 was torpeadoed burned and sank. No focus. They simply snagged up licenses. Of the 2 new ones (LotR and D&DO) I see the next casualty being LotR as there is no real focus there either.

I really liked the ideas, concepts and lore of AC2 but the game was just a drag to play. There where so many missing features that where never added or added way to late. Why did Turbine just kick AC off to the side? They completely blew it off. My first MMORPG was AC and I played it the longest. My departure was prompted by one thing, the mass defection of players. When I played there where over 100K players. Now what is it? 20K maybe. A bunch of empty servers.

Now, SWG has all the elements of a great game. BUT the Devs, for whatever reason, can not pull it all together.

Let me explain. The game is 2 years old. The content in this 2 year old game is minimal. What content there is has 4 problems. A) its primarily simplistic grinding B) its buggy C) it is very unispired and basic. D) the entire mechanic/gameplay is affected by the Devs inability to sort out the Jedi issue. Example - Jabba's Palace, a series of the most basic kill task that are not even set up in a logic order. The first mission has you running out to an empty spot in the desert to kill a Tusken raider who is lvl 30, the next has you killing another NPC (standing out in the open desert) who is lvl 12. These go on and on for what, 25 or so times?

Outside of these premier "themeparks" there are the ingenius "mission" terminals. "Come gather your mindless grind task". How a mission terminal design can fit into any MMORPG is beyond me. It lazy uninspired Dev design. Anything that even comes close to a creative plot or idea is ignored. What is Star Wars about? Epic Adventure. What is SWG about? Epic grinding and re-grinding. When you master 1 profession, do it all again...do you know why? Because the Devs have nothing else for you to do. Grind out a Jedi so you can redo it all again. And then..... as the community manager said, "you win the game"  You "win" an MMORPG.

So here is my SWG math, I paid 29.99 for the total experience 2 months of charges 14.99, and I actually went and got a new joystick for the JLS 50.00. My total cash outlay was 110.07. What did I get? I got to cap 3 toons and had nothing to do but kill creatures called Bols the whole time. (Because that all the community does, they are fixed on grinding) Someone actually had the nuts to say to me, "well you gotta create your own content." So let me get this straight, I pay 110 bucks for them to promote ME creating my own fun......kiss off, I have a career, family and kids, I dont have time to do the Devs work for him. They made the fricking game, its suppost to entertain me not vice versa. All in all is a big piece of mismanaged crap. I love SW, shame on them.

Phew what a rant lol

  JoshFatal

Novice Member

Joined: 9/13/04
Posts: 42

10/21/05 10:58:13 AM#8

Yeah Torak, that does sound really disappointing. I'm hoping they continue developing that game as much as possible, so hopefully it WON'T be as mismanaged as it sounds like it is.

And I certainly agree, in a game we PAY per MONTH for, there should never be any of this "Create your own content!!" stuff (Saga of Ryzom excluded. Apparently, their expansion will actually give you the tools needed to create content. I don't know how they'll do it, though.) That's a crappy argument given by fanboy players who can't handle thinking anything negative about their precious game. I know these are role-playing games we're dealing with, but that doesn't mean I should have to play pretend to make up for the devs lack of interest.

I sort of agree and disagree with you about mission terminals. See, I love simplified features in these games (which is why I adored AC2 so much. Both this and SWG offered lots of nice luxuries to the players without sacrificing depth... at least, that's what it appears to be on the surface.) I think Mission Terminals were a great convenience in both SWG and AO, and fit in with the setting of both games. That being said, I do agree they should not be a main focus of either game. In SWG, I thought certain NPCs gave out quests and stuff. In my ideal portrayal of an MMO, terminals should exist for grinding. Bored? Have to work in a few hours, and want to progress a little bit? No problem, just sign up for a few missions, get them done and enjoy the XP/credits you get as a reward. When you come back home from work, you can sink your teeth into the actual game content. Said "content" would be very involving quests given from NPCs, with backstory and some sort of a plot element. Perhaps these would take a while to do, or would go by (slightly) quicker with a full group. I don't know.

Many of these games (WoW included) still haven't grasped that this is how content ought to be managed. Fighting random monsters over and over is tedious. Fighting certain monsters with a goal of getting 10 of a certain item, or killing 20 of them, is less tedious. I know there's a light at the end of the tunnel, and a reward along with it. I know I'm not fighting these things to get to the next level, but to get to the end of the mission, which in turn will get me farther to the next level. WoW did the "Grind Quest" thing pretty well, and it helped grinding go by quicker.
But here's where MMOs still haven't figured it out. That kind of content should be considered grinding. That kind of content, if applied limitlessly to grinding, would be a lot of fun. But it shouldn't end there! These games release this updated version of grinding and say "Look at all the stuff you can do in our world!" I'm sorry, but at level 5 I may begrudgingly kill 20 rats to turn in a quest in hopes of progressing to higher-level stuff, but at level 40, 50, and so on, I want my content to feel more heroic.

Randomized fetch/kill quests are great for grinding, just not a great excused for content in a game that's supposed to be exciting. The scripted, non-random instanced dungeons of WoW are a great idea, but I believe these are still considered "novelties" of games. They're the sort of things you tackle after putting up with a ton of bullshit the game throws at you. Wrong! Clever stuff like that should be the main aspect of an MMO. There should be lots of scripted, unique content.

So I guess I really do agree with you. Mission terminals are a poor excuse for actual content.

Getting back on track, AC2 had some decent quests, but from what I've heard from higher levels, it came down to waiting for "Quest Cooldown" to finish up so you can grind the same quests over and over again. I think part of the problem with sequel MMOs is you can't really start a new game in the same world as the old game; you have to somehow make it all new. So they pull some terrible disaster out of their hat to make the world, for lack of better term, blow up. Now everything can be rearranged, and we can make a bunch of new content about what caused the disaster and its effects on the world!

For me, this created two disappointments in AC2:

  1. I don't care about the past. If I was that interested in the past, I'd be playing AC1. I want to look forward. The only way I'd care about the past is if there was an involving plot in the game that starts players off trying to find out what caused the world to get torn apart, which would then lead to them discovering some ancient evil or whatever who caused this that they now need to combat. It would give the game direction, instead of the "WELL NOW THESE BAD GUYS HAVE INVADED THIS AREA, SO IN THE NEXT PATCH, YOU'LL SEE THESE CREATURES IN THIS AREA INSTEAD OF THOSE CREATURES" stuff they pull.
  2. The world's a dump, man. We had to wait months for the first NPCs, and even those were scarce. Due to this, content was really limited. Turbine originally promised quests in the form of drops. An enemy would drop something, which would lead you to some sort of a quest. See, those are the kind of great ideas that made me look forward to AC2. Gone would be NPCs, and in their place would be a way for players to quest, unfold the story, buy, trade, craft... all on their own! Without having to go into town. Alas, Turbine screwed it up, so they gave us NPCs as a quick fix. Boo.

I believe I've written enough for now, as I'm sure we ALL have a huge list of complaints with the game. This whole thing just makes me really sad. AC2 had lots of potential to reinvent the genre, and Turbine messed it all up. Now they think by snatching up two popular licenses and making generic knock-off titles out of them, they can get out of the red. That's why I'll be looking to other companies to provide me with that dream.

  Hadorak

Novice Member

Joined: 9/23/04
Posts: 23

10/30/05 6:22:18 AM#9

o.O... how can the failure of a retail product be blamed on the customer DOH!!!

I really wish LOTRO could have been licensed to a reputable company in this industry,that is one to say,provides for thier customer's needs/desires. IMO,the complete lack,disreguard,and disconcern of what thier customers were paying for was the reason for failure and the rest is trivial.

On the positive side, Turbine has a great game engine. Thier grafics are superior and realtime combat is the best I've played.

I can only hope that lessons have been learned at Turbine and whoever operates the helm in that company, has learned how to steer :P

  Darkchronic

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/05
Posts: 1086

11/14/05 1:04:13 PM#10

I know this is kinda off topic, but am I the only person who likes AC2 as it is now? I'm playing through the 15 day trial, I'm only on my second day now, but if it was not shutting down in December, I would happily pay the monthly fee for it. I agree though, Mr.CEO should not have lied about AC2.

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No Userbar here, sorry to disappoint.

  Elapsed

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2343

11/21/05 11:48:55 AM#11


Originally posted by Darkchronic
I know this is kinda off topic, but am I the only person who likes AC2 as it is now? I'm playing through the 15 day trial, I'm only on my second day now, but if it was not shutting down in December, I would happily pay the monthly fee for it. I agree though, Mr.CEO should not have lied about AC2.

I think Turbine handled this very poorly. AC2 is decent now. They jumped the gun on killing it.

Turbine should have made it free to play for the past 4 months. Then in December they should have seen how many people were playing. If there were a lot of people they could either reinstitute the monthly fee or create some premium subscription plan. If they started charging sure some people would quit, but I bet there would have been more subscribers than before. It seems logical to me. The people who were already playing would have stayed for the 4 months for free, and new people would have came. Of course some would quit once the fee was reinstated but some would actually decide to subscribe. I'm not sure if it still would have been enough people. In any case, I don't think Turbine completely thought out the their options, they just wanted to put AC2 behind them I guess.

  remyburke

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 2962

I liked MMOs better when gamers didn't play them, and just geeks did.

11/22/05 9:42:03 PM#12

If nothing else, making AC2 F2P and keeping 1 or 2 servers running would have been a good marketing tool. When you get someone involved in one product a company has to offer, they become a direct pipeline into building a community for that company.

Like AC2? Check out these other new upcoming titles!

 

I always liked AC1. AC2 started off great but went downhill. DDO blows. Let's see if they hit the suck trifecta with LoTRO.

Playing: ESO, Hearthstone and DayZ

Played: AC1, AC2, AO, AoC, CO, CoX, DAoC, DCUO, DN, EVE, EQ1, EQ2,
FE, FFXI, FFXIV, FF, GW1, GW2, Istaria, L2, LoTRO, MO, MxO, NW, Rift, RoE,
Ryzom, SB, SWG, SWTOR, TERA, TSW, WAR, WoW, WURM...

  bmcdee123

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/05
Posts: 8

11/29/05 12:44:57 PM#13

I never thought AC2 was a terrible game, I played it for quite awhile.

I have to agree that Lord of The Rings Online seems very uninspired, though I've been looking into DDO for about a year now, and will have to say they seem to be doing a good job on it.

I wouldn't bail on Turbine just yet. Again, they put out AC1...which was great, and still is great. Yes, they put out AC2, which wasn't as good...So what? They put out a bad game?

I'd say give them another chance for AC1's sake.

  xplororor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/27/03
Posts: 2423

The wanning starship, a glowing pallid white,
Bids her adieus, heading into space''s cold night.

11/30/05 10:48:51 AM#14

Originally posted by Trimethicon

And now I'm watching both DDO and LOTRO with caution and concern.


  No need to keep looking at them. Stop wasting one of the most valuable things you own - your time.

DDO and MEO/LotR will F-A-I-L!

I, and others, have posted in detail why both will fail. Here is a quickie re-cap:

  1. Turbine is making TWO mmorpgs at the same time!  Not only will they both be compeating vs each other.... they will be compeating vs the tons of other mmorpgs.

  2. Both mmorpgs are fantasy-themed. The fantasy market is already uber-over-mega-saturated.

  Right now Turbine is using AC as collaterial for the loans they got to make MEO/LotR and DDO. Just how much of AC's profits will they be able to keep wasting before they are forced to... *sniff* ... shut down AC?

  Sevenwind

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/07/04
Posts: 2230

11/30/05 4:53:01 PM#15

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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.