General Discussion

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Originally posted by Squidi

Honestly, yes. I guess you've never really had any experience dealing with public opinion, because the things that would fly between friends will end up murdering you in the public arena. I know what you want - you want some sort of assurance that everything is going to be okay. I think it is. I've had more fun playing SWG in the past couple weeks than ever before. However, SOE can't say that because it will just end up being fodder for the pissed off folks. You have to understand that nothing SOE can say or do at this point - even reverting to the system before the CU - can save them in the eyes of some very vocal people. The thread in the forums where they announced the multipassenger vehicles turned into a flame war because we got new and long wanted content rather than fixing bugs. Honestly, all they can do is wait it out because everything they say, no matter how little, will just be used against them tenfold.
If they admit a mistake, that just throws gas on the fire as now people will have some sort of official backing for their beliefs - no matter how twisted or misguided they may be. Suddenly, the CU doesn't just suck in their eyes, the Devs admitted it and you'd have to be a complete fool to disagree with evidence like that. If they say, mistake or not, sit down and shut up because this is how we're going to do it, you'll have a bunch of players getting upset at their arrogance and not listening to the customer base. Frankly, saying nothing will result in the vocal minority getting frustrated and leaving sooner when they don't get the attention they need. SOE is handling this situation the only way they can, and though it frustrates people, it is the approach that will lead to a happy equilibrium quickest.
One of the things I've always liked about SWG is that the developers have been really open about the development process, and indeed have tried to involve the players as much as possible - even when it wasn't feasible. This has perhaps been their biggest downfall as it frustrates players who are used to getting their way, as well as frustrates those who get excited about an in development idea that doesn't come out quite like they were expecting (or worse, getting cancelled). They told us about the Smuggler Revamp that they wanted to do, and I have no doubt that they did and still do want to work on it. But priorities are priorities, and the CU (which affects Smugglers) took precedence over a single class. And yet, I still see people complaining that there has yet to be a Smuggler Revamp - completely ignoring all the other new features and bugfixes that SOE has managed while still pumping out both a CU and an expansion pack. If they had never mentioned a Smuggler Revamp, there'd be nothing to complain about. I've seen docs on the new slicing mini-game they're working on, so I expect that the Smuggler Revamp may not be too far away - but patience can be so difficult when we want something so intensely.
SOE is learning the hard way how that kind of openness with the players can bite them in the ass hard. I've been on other MMORPGs, like WoW, where the developers never announced anything, responded to any of the complaints of the playerbase, or said "hey, we're working on it" - and I found the lack of information to be far more frustrating than SOE having to say, "we wanted to do this, but it wasn't as feasible as we suspected". I think SOE is brave for being so open, and I applaud them. As both an ex-game developer and now someone who has to deal with a bloodthirsty public on a daily basis, I not only understand what they are going through, but I am filled with empathy at their plight. They suffer the worst attacks and insults I've seen in a long time, and for a game they obviously believe in and want to make better in the most sincere way possible. I've yet to see another developer who cared more than these guys, and it really gives me faith that everything's going to turn out right. I don't think you guys appreciate how deeply the wounds you cut go. It's been a war against the morale of the devs for months now, and the onslaught has lessened but not disappeared. Were they the developers you guys think they are, they wouldn't be working weekends to fix bugs and add new features to the game. I know I wouldn't. I'd tell all you ungrateful bastard to go fuck yourself, but they haven't and they won't.
Mistakes were made, but they made the right decisions where it mattered most - even though they had to step on some toes to do it. They aren't perfect, but they do what has to be done. The SWG of today is almost nothing like the SWG that was first released - it's better. And it will keep getting better, not because they developers are falling just short of expectations, but because they are aiming for them in the first place. Just have a little patience and go a little easier on the devs. SWG has never been in a better place.

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Actually your wrong. And I wasn't really looking for an answer from anyone here. SOE has admitted misake before and they will again. However it seems the bastard relationship between LA and them makes things different with SWG. And I didn't really care for your assumptions about me. I have been in the public area before and I do have experience with public opinion. And I understand quite a few things in life, including this.

Wow.

No offense to Lepidus, who's doing a job as best you can, but SOE is really blowing sunshine up your butt. I've cancelled, but still have until June 9th, so I check in from time to time to say my goodbyes. And SWG is a ghost-town, on Ahazi server anyway, which used to be one of if not the most crowded and fun. I believe SOE is losing millions. The CU is a disaster. There are the kernels of some good ideas, but so under-developed and poorly balanced.

SOE will not admit their blunder. Correspondents are getting replaced, developers are leaving. In a few months, see if they don't consolidate some servers quietly.

What a shame. My only hope is that one day soon LucasArts rips the license away from Sony and does the game themselves - their developers seem far more competent.

I have played this game since it came out. It started where you could solo, but not super easily. Then they changed it to the point that you could become buffed and just sit in your back yard barbecuing while your toon was almost invulnerable. Now after the recent combat upgrade Soe has decided to make their game like EQ. Now you must have a group to actually hunt, and its really hard to make xp unless you are in just the right situation. I think it was good that they took out the holo grind, but it is still ridiculous what they have done with the game. If they wanted this game to flourish, give the players an ability to solo, as in WOW. Because of episode III there has been a big surge in players starting up and coming back. SWG has one major strongpoint, and that is its STAR WARS. If it wasn't star wars, no one would play, because this game is so poorly made. Nothing flows. Because of the $30 full experience box they came out with they have found lots of people willing to try it. But, after the Star Wars exitinment from episode III dies out , they will find lots of people droppping their subscriptions left and right. Soe needs to stop nerfing everything on SWG, they need to make the game fun, give soloing opportunities and give the game some stability. I hope that eventually they will find out what is going on, and make the game unique, but still fun. May the force be with them, cuz god knows they have not been using it thus far.

Show me a game where i can pilot a starship and walk into a bar for a drink and ill go play it.The CU isnt bad at all.This is the way it should have been from day one.Most players are just mad that they cant solo a whole lot anymore and cant accept having to change tactics.

Go play WoW for a month like i did and you will be right back here.

SWG still has more depth and immersion than any mmo on the market.Between SWG,EvE and CoH this genre needs a kick in the pants badly.PvP is going to be making a comeback in the next year or so with a few releases as well.

Change is good for everyone.The old combat system was going to doom SWG to no end.The new one is good for the game.Once you come back i suggest you start a new character to get a grasp of the new combat style.

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Originally posted by kinglog123

ok what im about to say will probably make ppl mad or pissed whatever though

I believe that the only people that dont like the CU are the TKM composite armor clones that used to be able to kill anything and now that you cant kill everything that comes in your path your pissed. Well ya know what the CU was for the better and i for one love the new system

Now im not saying the cu is perfect... hell far from it with all the bugs and stuff but it was for the better and it balances it out alot better then the old combat system when you had to be a tkm or jedi just to be good. When any online game comes out it always has bugs theres no doubt about it you gotta be patient and wait for the bugs to get fixed. And also i like it because it makes you group hell before cu you could solo rancor... which is unbelievable and impossible.If you wanna live the starwars experiance now is your chance now it makes it more "realistic" and if you have friends which i hope everyone does it makes this game even more enjoyable because you do need to group now and the emphasis is streched on grouping. So with this up in grouping it makes the community more enjoyable.

IM EXTREAMLY HAPPY THAT THEY GOT RID OF UBER BUFFS!!! People complain- "oh boo hoo the community is gone places such as cornet that used to be a bustling city are now gone" .. The only freaking reason it was bustling was because everyone and there grandmothers where there to get the uber buffs. Plus im glad all those people left because of cu i dont need the TKM Uber leet master composite clones crying cuz i killed them with my Master bounty hunter/ Master carbineer toon because of the blance that took place from the CU.

There is one thing i do hate about the CU - There is hardly any non-combat classes anymore... its way to hard to find a doctor now if you need your wounds healed and its hard to find any architects or anything to that standard so its hard to buy items now. And the economy is fu**ed up over 1 mill for a suit of armor is unbelievable.

My final thought - i love the new cu it was long needed and it is a great addition but we need to give another month or so to let the devs fix the bugs. Another fix needed would be the fix of non-combat classes and the economy needs a serious upgrade

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Like I posted previously, I have seen plenty of players who could solo any jedi and any TKM and rip them a new a-hole.  YOU HAVE TO LEARN THE GAME AND HOW TO PLAY!!!!!  I serousily doubt that you had done any serious PVP'ing because you're sitting here crying about how other professions were uber.  Infact, your post specifically tells me you were one of those corpses I stomped across in my travels.  My char got whipped plenty of times and I never cried to the DEVS or CSR about how unfair it was.  Not only did SOE ruin the game but people, like you?, who cried to SOE everytime their ass was handed to them.

The game and economy survive from a strong community nimrod.  Thats why Docs buffed, Entertainers entertained.  A starport is where people gathered not only to get buffed, but to socialize, form groups, trade, etc etc.  Evidently you're too young or immature to understand the concept of the game.

SOME PEOPLE DO NOT LIKE TO GROUP.  That make sense to you?  The CU forces people to do things they may not want to do.  SWG is a game.  There are alot of unrealistic things to the game.  To make it realistic is impossible.  For you to rant on about people crying, you'd better get the Visine out and clear the red-eyes you have.  In my experience, the only people who enjoy the CU are the people who couldn't learn the game and it's concepts before the CU and the 8 year olds who just saw Episode III.  No offense to 8 year olds.

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Originally posted by Squidi

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Originally posted by Fadeus

Its just lately I have read so much of how SOE feels things are by them and LucasArts and very little actually anwering to the fact that they may have made a few mistakes along the way that my head is just read to pop.

I am not against the CU, but I do think SOE and LA made some rather bad mistakes and can't even admit them, not just once. All I want is alittle honesty from them, just a tiny bit. I understand as a business they have to keep face, but just give me alittle tiny bit of love. Hell right now if they told me "We don't care what you like, we are doing it this way. Deal with it!" I would feel better then I do right now with all these feel good we are so proud of the CU articles I am getting fed one after the other.

...

Am I really asking too much as a consumer and fan?

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Honestly, yes. I guess you've never really had any experience dealing with public opinion, because the things that would fly between friends will end up murdering you in the public arena. I know what you want - you want some sort of assurance that everything is going to be okay. I think it is. I've had more fun playing SWG in the past couple weeks than ever before. However, SOE can't say that because it will just end up being fodder for the pissed off folks. You have to understand that nothing SOE can say or do at this point - even reverting to the system before the CU - can save them in the eyes of some very vocal people. The thread in the forums where they announced the multipassenger vehicles turned into a flame war because we got new and long wanted content rather than fixing bugs. Honestly, all they can do is wait it out because everything they say, no matter how little, will just be used against them tenfold.

If they admit a mistake, that just throws gas on the fire as now people will have some sort of official backing for their beliefs - no matter how twisted or misguided they may be. Suddenly, the CU doesn't just suck in their eyes, the Devs admitted it and you'd have to be a complete fool to disagree with evidence like that. If they say, mistake or not, sit down and shut up because this is how we're going to do it, you'll have a bunch of players getting upset at their arrogance and not listening to the customer base. Frankly, saying nothing will result in the vocal minority getting frustrated and leaving sooner when they don't get the attention they need. SOE is handling this situation the only way they can, and though it frustrates people, it is the approach that will lead to a happy equilibrium quickest.

One of the things I've always liked about SWG is that the developers have been really open about the development process, and indeed have tried to involve the players as much as possible - even when it wasn't feasible. This has perhaps been their biggest downfall as it frustrates players who are used to getting their way, as well as frustrates those who get excited about an in development idea that doesn't come out quite like they were expecting (or worse, getting cancelled). They told us about the Smuggler Revamp that they wanted to do, and I have no doubt that they did and still do want to work on it. But priorities are priorities, and the CU (which affects Smugglers) took precedence over a single class. And yet, I still see people complaining that there has yet to be a Smuggler Revamp - completely ignoring all the other new features and bugfixes that SOE has managed while still pumping out both a CU and an expansion pack. If they had never mentioned a Smuggler Revamp, there'd be nothing to complain about. I've seen docs on the new slicing mini-game they're working on, so I expect that the Smuggler Revamp may not be too far away - but patience can be so difficult when we want something so intensely.

SOE is learning the hard way how that kind of openness with the players can bite them in the ass hard. I've been on other MMORPGs, like WoW, where the developers never announced anything, responded to any of the complaints of the playerbase, or said "hey, we're working on it" - and I found the lack of information to be far more frustrating than SOE having to say, "we wanted to do this, but it wasn't as feasible as we suspected". I think SOE is brave for being so open, and I applaud them. As both an ex-game developer and now someone who has to deal with a bloodthirsty public on a daily basis, I not only understand what they are going through, but I am filled with empathy at their plight. They suffer the worst attacks and insults I've seen in a long time, and for a game they obviously believe in and want to make better in the most sincere way possible. I've yet to see another developer who cared more than these guys, and it really gives me faith that everything's going to turn out right. I don't think you guys appreciate how deeply the wounds you cut go. It's been a war against the morale of the devs for months now, and the onslaught has lessened but not disappeared. Were they the developers you guys think they are, they wouldn't be working weekends to fix bugs and add new features to the game. I know I wouldn't. I'd tell all you ungrateful bastard to go fuck yourself, but they haven't and they won't.

Mistakes were made, but they made the right decisions where it mattered most - even though they had to step on some toes to do it. They aren't perfect, but they do what has to be done. The SWG of today is almost nothing like the SWG that was first released - it's better. And it will keep getting better, not because they developers are falling just short of expectations, but because they are aiming for them in the first place. Just have a little patience and go a little easier on the devs. SWG has never been in a better place.

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