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News & Features Discussion  » [Preview] Das Tal: Understanding the Approach

14 posts found
  SBFord

Associate Editor - News Manager

Joined: 6/28/10
Posts: 14196

 
OP  8/27/14 8:33:37 PM#1

How do you produce a sandbox MMO with a minimal team? That’s exactly what Alexander Zacherl and Fairytale Distillery have been doing with their latest project Das Tal. Currently in early alpha, it aims to preserve that feeling of progression and power growth by restarting the world every few months. During Gamescom, he sat down with columnist Gareth Harmer to explain the concept in more detail.

Read more of Gareth Harmer's Das Tal: Understanding the Approach.

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

  toidimaet

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 3

8/28/14 2:19:31 PM#2

Good read.  The reference to Escape From New York has piqued my interest and I applaud them for trying to do something that is different from the plethora of mince that is out there, or being made at the moment.

Going to look into this game a bit more.

 

Cheers Danny.

  WereLlama

Novice Member

Joined: 2/13/12
Posts: 221

8/28/14 5:55:33 PM#3

a solid mmo with a small team is totally doable these days.  I look forward to seeing this game evolve

-WL

  Lustmord

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 1108

8/28/14 10:48:07 PM#4
I'm really excited to see this game progress.
  jusomdude

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 2364

8/28/14 11:21:25 PM#5

I've come to the point where I just roll my eyes when I hear FFA full loot. From the looks of it, it seems like a game that focuses on like what other games have as battlegrounds. Not sure this should be called an MMO.

 

  Lustmord

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 1108

8/29/14 10:37:19 AM#6
Originally posted by jusomdude

I've come to the point where I just roll my eyes when I hear FFA full loot. From the looks of it, it seems like a game that focuses on like what other games have as battlegrounds. Not sure this should be called an MMO.

 

To me, this is more of an MMO than 99% of the themeparks on the market today.

All FFA really means is player driven factions. Players create their own guilds and alliances and shape the political landscape themselves, instead of the game enforcing hard faction lines.

Full Loot is making a comeback on the MMO scene. Expect much more of it over the next decade.  It's a staple of sandbox gameplay and crafting economies.

 

  jusomdude

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 2364

8/29/14 10:58:46 AM#7

What's the point of full loot or even having items at all, when items become valueless though? They become so easy to obtain, either from other players or mobs that they lose their value.

I think MMO's need a diverse playerbase, any game at this point that lists FFA, will only attract PvP addicts. Fleshed out games need a fair portion of PvE minded players as well.

  Lustmord

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 1108

8/29/14 4:46:14 PM#8
Originally posted by jusomdude

What's the point of full loot or even having items at all, when items become valueless though? They become so easy to obtain, either from other players or mobs that they lose their value.

I think MMO's need a diverse playerbase, any game at this point that lists FFA, will only attract PvP addicts. Fleshed out games need a fair portion of PvE minded players as well.

 

Because full loot, as well as item decay, keep the wheels on a crafting-based economy turning. If the game is done right, there would be plenty of crafting and pve content to attract pve minded players. But a good sandbox is built on a foundation of player conflict.
  Lustmord

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 1108

8/29/14 4:49:34 PM#9
Originally posted by jusomdude

What's the point of full loot or even having items at all, when items become valueless though? They become so easy to obtain, either from other players or mobs that they lose their value.

I think MMO's need a diverse playerbase, any game at this point that lists FFA, will only attract PvP addicts. Fleshed out games need a fair portion of PvE minded players as well.

 

Let me throw it back at you. What's the point of a pve raiding themepark, when you get gear from raiding that will be completely devalued and worthless by the next dungeon/expansion?
  jusomdude

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 2364

8/29/14 4:59:54 PM#10
Originally posted by Lustmord
Originally posted by jusomdude

What's the point of full loot or even having items at all, when items become valueless though? They become so easy to obtain, either from other players or mobs that they lose their value.

I think MMO's need a diverse playerbase, any game at this point that lists FFA, will only attract PvP addicts. Fleshed out games need a fair portion of PvE minded players as well.

 

Because full loot, as well as item decay, keep the wheels on a crafting-based economy turning. If the game is done right, there would be plenty of crafting and pve content to attract pve minded players. But a good sandbox is built on a foundation of player conflict.

This is the primary thing I think is wrong with the sandbox developers, and I believe is entirely false. A good sandbox doesn't require mandatory PvP in the whole game world to be good... Take minecraft for example. Even though it's subjective, what I think makes a good sandbox is a high level of interactivity with in game objects, environment, and progression paths. Options are what make a good sandbox game... like the option to participate or not in player conflicts.

 

I think the sooner game developers get it out of their head that FFA is required in a sandbox, the sooner we'll see a successful sandbox game.

  jusomdude

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 2364

8/29/14 5:12:30 PM#11
Originally posted by Lustmord
Originally posted by jusomdude

What's the point of full loot or even having items at all, when items become valueless though? They become so easy to obtain, either from other players or mobs that they lose their value.

I think MMO's need a diverse playerbase, any game at this point that lists FFA, will only attract PvP addicts. Fleshed out games need a fair portion of PvE minded players as well.

 

Let me throw it back at you. What's the point of a pve raiding themepark, when you get gear from raiding that will be completely devalued and worthless by the next dungeon/expansion?

The point is to improve your current power, to help with future content. The gear also isn't completely useless when the next expansion releases at least as far as the upcoming WoW expansion is concerned. Depending on how geared you are, you may not replace any until lvl 96+.

Anyways, I'm not complaining that the game is a sandbox, and not trying to make this about sandbox vs themepark, I'm just skeptical of full loot and FFA seeing as how it hasn't been too good in past games, and I couldn't find anything about the developers previous game development experience which makes it even worse.

  Lustmord

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 1108

8/29/14 5:25:19 PM#12
Originally posted by jusomdude
Originally posted by Lustmord
Originally posted by jusomdude

What's the point of full loot or even having items at all, when items become valueless though? They become so easy to obtain, either from other players or mobs that they lose their value.

I think MMO's need a diverse playerbase, any game at this point that lists FFA, will only attract PvP addicts. Fleshed out games need a fair portion of PvE minded players as well.

 

Because full loot, as well as item decay, keep the wheels on a crafting-based economy turning. If the game is done right, there would be plenty of crafting and pve content to attract pve minded players. But a good sandbox is built on a foundation of player conflict.

This is the primary thing I think is wrong with the sandbox developers, and I believe is entirely false. A good sandbox doesn't require mandatory PvP in the whole game world to be good... Take minecraft for example. Even though it's subjective, what I think makes a good sandbox is a high level of interactivity with in game objects, environment, and progression paths. Options are what make a good sandbox game... like the option to participate or not in player conflicts.

 

I think the sooner game developers get it out of their head that FFA is required in a sandbox, the sooner we'll see a successful sandbox game.

Many games do provide that option. Albion for example, will have safezones to hug.. But if you want the best resources you may have to hire another player to help you get them. So in theory, a pve player could be escorted by pvp bodyguards.

As far as Das Tal, I don't know how far a pve-only player can go, but the game is going to be built as a whole for pvp.This isn't a bad thing, imo. This is very good. They don't need to have WoW-level mass appeal, they need to do what they do well enough to create a following to support them.

I currently play Darkfall, but I also like PvE.. but I would never play a game without pvp, and I would certainly prefer full loot and a crafting economy... Because, personally, I'm done running on the treadmill to get that next upgrade.

  jusomdude

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 2364

8/29/14 5:40:54 PM#13

So you'd rather just horde items in your bank that have little, to no value once the game goes into full swing, just to replace the same item you lost?

 

I like PvP too, consensual PvP that is. Games need more risk vs reward, and it sounds like the Albion developers know this.

PvP is fine if each player can prepare for it.

FFA with no safe zones and full loot just reward the rampant gank squads with little risk to themselves.

 

 

  Varex12

Elite Member

Joined: 4/19/14
Posts: 319

8/30/14 9:56:46 AM#14
Originally posted by Lustmord
Originally posted by jusomdude

I've come to the point where I just roll my eyes when I hear FFA full loot. From the looks of it, it seems like a game that focuses on like what other games have as battlegrounds. Not sure this should be called an MMO.

 

To me, this is more of an MMO than 99% of the themeparks on the market today.

All FFA really means is player driven factions. Players create their own guilds and alliances and shape the political landscape themselves, instead of the game enforcing hard faction lines.

Full Loot is making a comeback on the MMO scene. Expect much more of it over the next decade.  It's a staple of sandbox gameplay and crafting economies.

 

Full loot is making a comeback?  Aside from Eve, there isn't another successful game that has it.  

Full loot will never be popular.   It will always be for a very, very, very small minority of players who enjoys that kind of thing.  And as a result, it will be a feature of very small, very niche games that the majority of players wouldn't touch.