Trending Games | World of Warcraft | Guild Wars 2 | Crowfall | ArcheAge

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,950,495 Users Online:0
Games:778  Posts:6,373,270
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online AD2460 ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord 2 Archlord X Armored Warfare Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Bionic Marine Command Online Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blackguards 2 Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crowfall Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Heart Online Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dying Light Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GRAV GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods Rush Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Hand of Fate Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online Kill Strain King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lords of the Fallen 2 Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Hunter 4: Ultimate Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Nova Genesis Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Coast Legends Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Banner Saga 2 The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Amazing article detailing the innovation of EQN and Storybricks

17 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last Search
326 posts found
  Remains

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/21/09
Posts: 374

8/25/14 1:53:08 PM#61

Yeah, there sure are a lot of awesome features in this game... just that theres no game yet (still being developed for another 2-3(?) years), and its pretty much all talk and typing about a feature list still.

Don't get me wrong: I'm reeeaaally interested in the potential of this, but the proof is in the pudding. So I'll wait and see these things in action, then I'll decide if Im impressed or not.

  Raelln

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/11/14
Posts: 67

8/25/14 2:01:33 PM#62
Originally posted by Aelious

The main difference is the day to day happenings as you explore.  In GW2 I bet if I walked to the NW corner of the Foothills there will be trees with spiders in them that if killed enough will spawn an event with a big boss spider... just as it did when it was released years ago.  With what SB is showing this would not happen, the spiders could move to another location.  Giving NPCs and NPC groups a spreadshet of like and dislikes is the first step.  The next is a system that tracks what is going on, where people are, where resources are and what type of terrain it is.  Landmark alreaady has these "state checks" like jumping off a cliff and the system will check for water below you.  If there is your character will go into a dive.

This is another one of those things that look awesome on a PowerPoint slide or in a memo passing around the office - yet, in day-to-day playing may just end up being a thorn in the side to the players.

I will admit, I'd love to experience a world that can change to a degree where NPCs seem intelligent and will literally move to a new area and construct a new spawn point after being heavily farmed. This would represent some elements of the real world.

That said, I also can see the frustration, as someone that likes to farm my own crafting components, at trying to constantly hunt down where the source of, say - spider silk, can be currently found at if those spiders are constantly moving their spawn point all over the map.

If this type of NPC behavior is implemented, then I would suspect crafting recipes will need to be adjusted to require lower quantities of some materials - else the game just may become frustrating. 

I know the developers could just allow hunting/tracking but if that is the case and everyone is just simply given a "big green arrow that points to their prey" - then what was the original motive for spending the time to make the NPCs move their spawn points dynamically?

 

edit: Not to mention the script forks and "sentient" NPC dialog referencing the movement of all these NPC spawns points. It would be strange for spiders, rats, or worms to suddenly take over a NPC camp and those NPCs not even mention it. One of my peeves with MMOs is how there are always those NPCs that don't act "as they should".  I love it when a guard or merchant just stands there while a big bad monster is fighting me in the camp, literally clipping through the guard or merchant while the guard/merchant just stands there "ho-humming" as if nothing is happening. I don't care if their attacks do zero damage to the monster or they run away scared to death - the point is, they should react to their surroundings. Lazy job, devs.

  gotha

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1046

8/25/14 3:00:32 PM#63

Systems like this have been attempted since UO,  which had a full ecological system in place but had to scrap it because they could never get it working correctly.  Players killed all the animals too fast.

Due to the number of people MMOs are way too chaotic for a complicated AI system to respond too.  While I have high hopes for this,  i am rather skeptical.

 

Starr Long, the game's associate producer, explained in 1996:

 

Nearly everything in the world, from grass to goblins, has a purpose, and not just as cannon fodder either. The 'virtual ecology' affects nearly every aspect of the game world, from the very small to the very large. If the rabbit population suddenly drops (because some gung-ho adventurer was trying out his new mace) then wolves may have to find different food sources (e.g., deer). When the deer population drops as a result, the local dragon, unable to find the food he’s accustomed to, may head into a local village and attack. Since all of this happens automatically, it generates numerous adventure possibilities.

 

However, this feature never made it beyond the game's beta stage. As Richard Garriott explained:

 

We thought it was fantastic. We'd spent an enormous amount of time and effort on it. But what happened was all the players went in and just killed everything; so fast that the game couldn't spawn them fast enough to make the simulation even begin. And so, this thing that we'd spent all this time on, literally no-one ever noticed – ever – and we eventually just ripped it out of the game, you know, with some sadness.

  alyndale

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 845

When you learn that a truth is a lie, anger follows.Grace Slick

8/25/14 3:16:58 PM#64
Originally posted by Rydeson
Originally posted by azzamasin

I think it's obvious that EQN will have amazing innovation features that have never been present in the genre. I think it is articles like this that prove it and anyone who thinks EQN isn't going to be innovative is fooling themselves for personal reasons all because I feel they are upset it isn't going to be a clone of what has come and gone and come again. Love the direction this game is taking but I'll not get too hyped till I see it in action for myself.

I think it is fairly obvious why Tenton Hammer and others have lauded over it's potential with unheralded and unprecedented awards!

     The thing is azz..   I'm not sure if this Storybricks is really innovation or just old school faction on steroids..  We are constantly told how NPC's will become smarter and be part of the world, and how choices "matter"..  It is also hyped how each server will be different from another due to the actions of the community..  But is that real difference or just cosmetic differences?   None of us know for sure..  Example of this is rallying calls (RC)..  It was said in the article, as well in other interviews, that players can effect a rallying call.. Such as if leaders of Qeynos  strike out to build new cities like Halas, Freeport, Highkeep and Rivervale, the players can aid in the progression of those cities..  So if the community splits up equally, each city will progress at 25% speed... Or, if the community focuses on ONE city it's completed faster..  So yes, all servers will be different, but that difference is only cosmetic.. Why do you ask?  Because eventually ALL 4 cities will be completed and look exactly alike..  The only real difference is the length of time it takes to complete the rallying calls. 

     Now the thing is.. A significant change and difference would be that a class such as "Shaman" can only be learned from an NPC after Halas is finished, and only after you earned faction.. Now here a community can semi-effect the game world, but in such a way it prohibits other players from THEIR choices..  Will SOE allow that?  Unless the community can make permanent changes it's then all smoke and mirrors cosmetic.. 

     Another example I gave in another thread was this..  Can the community effect a "real" difference in the world such as promoting a leader of a city such as Freeport to be tribal or religious..  If the community choose tribal, then learning to become a Shaman is possible, but if the community endorses a religious city then one can become a Cleric.. BUT you can NOT be both.. Now that is REAL difference.. However if you are a character wanting to become a Shaman, but the community on your server didn't endorse or follow that path, you are screwed.. Will SOE allow that?  Cause if they don't, then as I said, there really isn't any meaningful differences between servers..

     So many details and question not asked or answered..  Lets wait and see what is actually served on "launch" day..

Edit:  Another example is, Can a community effect a city to HATE all Dwarfs.. and if so, make it so that any Dwarf character wanting to go into that city will be KOS and unable to every enter it..  But on another server that same city loves Dwarfs, but hates Elves..  Now that is real difference..

...and this is why we have something to look forward to

None of us know for sure and, for me, that's kind of exciting and bothersome all at the same time. I do believe in the future of gaming and I'm going to at least say that EQ N will be a different approachh. It truly is an enormous task, let us  at least put some faith that just maybe this will eventually work out..

Patience...

Alyn

All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon

  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 626

8/25/14 3:27:37 PM#65
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by Azoth
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by Azoth
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by Rydeson
Originally posted by Gallus85

The key thing to note is that players will be able to change their surroundings by their actions and the world will also change over time even without player intervention.  You don't need to get so specific, as in something like "Can players bar other players from being shamans!?" to understand this fact.  They've already given examples of possibilities that work within their system.  Things like orcs taking over a town, and players driving orcs out of the town making it peaceful again where you can then use the town to buy items and resources... then the orcs could come back in force with a larger raid-sized army.... OR maybe brigands see the orcs are no longer there are decide to attack.  Or maybe that town turns into a xenophobic militarized community that attacks everyone on sight because they're so afraid from being attacked all the time.  This is already done by ArenaNet (GW2) with dynamic events, just on a smaller scale..  Trion's Rift touches this with their zone wide invasions .. So this really isn't anything new, it's just done on a bigger scale.. The wheel has already been invented, but because SOE is making it a bigger wheel isn't invention..

All you questions have already been answered.  You don't need to know about a specific scenario you dreamed up answered right now.  The key point is that the world will constantly be changing and it's not the same as scripted events like GW2 or a simple faction KOS vs Friendly system.

GW2's world is always changing too.. in fact each server is different then others..  No two servers are technically the same..  These are not real changes, they are only short term temporary effects.. Have you played GW2 yet? lol

I've played GW2 for many months and I don't understand why you can't figure out that they're drastically different systems that work in drastically different ways.

Probably because they aren't that much different on a player perspective. A scripted event triggered by players.

This statement only proves you don't know anything about the system, how it works and why it's drastically different.

Are you saying that the choice an NPC can make won't be scripted ?

No, I'm saying there is a clear difference between GW2's public quest system with two different outcomes (depending on complete/not complete) that just rotates on a 30 - 60 minute timer and the Emergent AI system, which allows for hundreds or thousands of outcomes, at any place in the world, that constantly evolves over time with or without player engagement.

Trying to equate the two is about the same as trying to equate a cross bow made in 256 BC to a F-22 Raptor. 

Yet those outcomes are only possible if they have been coded, that emergent AI won't create different outcomes by itself. If we stick with the gold mine exemple.

A mine pop in the world, an Orc camp interested in gold hear about it. What happens next depend on what action they actually have scripted for such an event.

They could send a scouting party to see if it is claimed,

if yes, then it depends by whom. Allied clan or race, engage negotiation to be a part of the mining. Allies refuse, then start a war or go back home. If enemies, then gauge resistence, if equal or inferior start a war, if superior go back home or try to find allies to take over.

if not claimed, gauge potential of the mine. Too small, don't bother, big enough, start moving the clan closer and take over the mine.

Every one of those action have to be scripted for them to ever happen.

While in essence it is a step forward from what we have in GW2, on technical levels, it's about the same thing. You could set up event in GW2 with hundreds of outcomes if you wanted.

 

 

  TheLizardbones

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10959

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

8/25/14 4:04:42 PM#66
Originally posted by Raelln
Originally posted by Gallus85

No, I'm saying there is a clear difference between GW2's public quest system with two different outcomes (depending on complete/not complete) that just rotates on a 30 - 60 minute timer and the Emergent AI system, which allows for hundreds or thousands of outcomes, at any place in the world, that constantly evolves over time with or without player engagement.

Trying to equate the two is about the same as trying to equate a cross bow made in 256 BC to a F-22 Raptor. 

Little difference.

While GW2 may only have a win/lose type choice for the script to follow that may or may not lead into another event - what I've read here just insinuates that a single event may end up with more than those two choices.

Each choice will have to have developer time to create the next event path - be it a faction building a city or a group of NPCs building a bridge. In the end, many of these events cannot be permanent fixtures - less the environment become pockmarked with past "events". Don't get me wrong, the event to build a city would obviously be permanent but a "random" type of event for a group of NPCs to sink a mineshaft cannot just be allowed to happen anywhere and at anytime less the gameworld eventually become overrun by abandoned mineshafts.

To that end, the gameworld must reset some dynamic events and in that capacity it will feel just like GW2.

As for what EQN is claiming to attempt to do - I believe Horizons already tried some of this stuff although it was more direct developer engagement than dynamic scripting - if memory serves. (I may be completely wrong).

 

There is a difference between writing a system that has two possible outcomes, and writing a system that tells the system to find an outcome that fits a particular set of criteria.

 

In one case, there will only ever be 2 outcomes and adding additional outcomes scales up the amount of work required to produce the outcomes in a linear manner.  In the second case, there are many possible outcomes, allowing for many possible responses from players without scaling up the amount of work required to generate the additional outcomes.  A change in the environment by the players results in a change in the possible outcomes and responses in the AI mobs.  I don't know if it is a "living world", but the AI mobs are certainly reactive to the players and environmental changes without intervention from the developer.

 

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 626

8/25/14 5:23:38 PM#67
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by Raelln
Originally posted by Gallus85

No, I'm saying there is a clear difference between GW2's public quest system with two different outcomes (depending on complete/not complete) that just rotates on a 30 - 60 minute timer and the Emergent AI system, which allows for hundreds or thousands of outcomes, at any place in the world, that constantly evolves over time with or without player engagement.

Trying to equate the two is about the same as trying to equate a cross bow made in 256 BC to a F-22 Raptor. 

Little difference.

While GW2 may only have a win/lose type choice for the script to follow that may or may not lead into another event - what I've read here just insinuates that a single event may end up with more than those two choices.

Each choice will have to have developer time to create the next event path - be it a faction building a city or a group of NPCs building a bridge. In the end, many of these events cannot be permanent fixtures - less the environment become pockmarked with past "events". Don't get me wrong, the event to build a city would obviously be permanent but a "random" type of event for a group of NPCs to sink a mineshaft cannot just be allowed to happen anywhere and at anytime less the gameworld eventually become overrun by abandoned mineshafts.

To that end, the gameworld must reset some dynamic events and in that capacity it will feel just like GW2.

As for what EQN is claiming to attempt to do - I believe Horizons already tried some of this stuff although it was more direct developer engagement than dynamic scripting - if memory serves. (I may be completely wrong).

 

There is a difference between writing a system that has two possible outcomes, and writing a system that tells the system to find an outcome that fits a particular set of criteria.

 

In one case, there will only ever be 2 outcomes and adding additional outcomes scales up the amount of work required to produce the outcomes in a linear manner.  In the second case, there are many possible outcomes, allowing for many possible responses from players without scaling up the amount of work required to generate the additional outcomes.  A change in the environment by the players results in a change in the possible outcomes and responses in the AI mobs.  I don't know if it is a "living world", but the AI mobs are certainly reactive to the players and environmental changes without intervention from the developer.

 

But wouldn't those extra possible outcomes already have to be coded anyway ? In my limited coding experience, I assumed that there was always only 2 outcomes to a single question. 0 or 1, no or yes. While the result could contain variables on the execution, it still always result in 1 of 2 possible outcomes. (NPC attacks or he doesn't, NPC start building a church or he doesn't.)

Can you give me an exemple of how different that system will be working ?

 

  Markusrind

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/22/13
Posts: 390

8/25/14 5:59:51 PM#68
Originally posted by Azoth

 

But wouldn't those extra possible outcomes already have to be coded anyway ? In my limited coding experience, I assumed that there was always only 2 outcomes to a single question. 0 or 1, no or yes. While the result could contain variables on the execution, it still always result in 1 of 2 possible outcomes. (NPC attacks or he doesn't, NPC start building a church or he doesn't.)

Can you give me an exemple of how different that system will be working ?

 

Use the example given using Orcs.

Orcs desire wealth.

Some options might be: -

Travel around until they find some Gold mine and mine it out.

Find a well travelled road and waylay travellers to rob them.

Hire themselves out to the local Dark Elves.

 

Lets take the travellers example to further explore options: -

The Orcs want more wealth and so decide to call for re-inforcements to attack bigger groups.

The road is too dangerous for their group so they decide to move on to another place.

The Orcs realise that they get most gold from travelling priests and so only choose to attack priests.

 

The choices made are not either/or choices. They have various conflicting wants and needs and multiple avenues from which to pursue each of these needs.

 

Think of it like this...

Do I attack?

1 = yes

2 = no

Do I attack and if so what with?

1 = Yes with Dagger

2 = Yes with Bow

3 = No

Now add ways to escape and another weapon and see what happens.

1 = Yes with Dagger

2 = Yes with Bow

3 = Yes With spear

4 = No by hiding

5 = No by running

 

Now add in some knowledge that the NPC has about who they are thinking of attacking as they know that they are a mage and have good defences against close combat: -

1 = No. Do not attack with Dagger

2 = Yes. Attack with Bow

3 = No. Do not attack with spear

4 = No by hiding

5 = No by running

What if the NPC is too close to attack using the bow?

Or what if it was a fighter not a Mage?

Or what if the Orc was better at close combat?

Each layer of options provides another set of potential outcomes. So add in several desires, several ways to fulfil those desires, several personality traits, several bits of knowledge about the land, races or anything else and what you have is a series of decisions weighted by who the NPC is, what they are trying to achieve, what they have to do to achieve their desires, what resources they have available to achieve them...

Now some might say "but that means things are totally random" but they are not because each level of the process will be weighted based on the 'IQ' of the NPC and the process is weighted for the NPC to achieve it's goals the best they can in any given circumstance.

If you saw early storybricks video's you can see how the layers are constructed and now with the latest video's you can see how it fits together. And now that they seem to be able to procedurally generate NPC's and even entire races with variations and that they will interact with the world using their tagging system you can hopefully see how it all fits together.

 

  AG-Vuk

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/26/04
Posts: 840

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
Oh, I see it's too late to help you.

8/25/14 6:14:32 PM#69
BFD ! It's a faction system. So your actions, choices have affects on the various races and factions in the game thereby alter your access and choice in quests and quest locations. It's similar to what Vanguard had. Possibly better instituted. So they saw the potential of what was in Vanguard and instituted it in this game. Not really ground breaking or earth shattering. In Vanguard you could change bad faction with various races either through grinding quests or diplomacy. Surprisingly Sony is borrowing from a game they've just shut down and adding it to a new game. Meh , let me know when it's something truly new and impressive. As I recall they had something less refined in SWG also.

  Charlie.Cheswick

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/14
Posts: 139

8/25/14 6:22:45 PM#70

a·maz·ing

 

/e•ma•ziNG/

causing great surprise or wonder, astonishing. 

 

  • Sadly this is not the case for me. If only I weren't such a skeptical cynic.

 

 

 

 

May I have my cigarettes, please, Miss Ratched?

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1449

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

8/25/14 7:01:41 PM#71


Originally posted by gotha
Systems like this have been attempted since UO,  which had a full ecological system in place but had to scrap it because they could never get it working correctly.  Players killed all the animals too fast.

Due to the number of people MMOs are way too chaotic for a complicated AI system to respond too.  While I have high hopes for this,  i am rather skeptical.

 

Starr Long, the game's associate producer, explained in 1996:

 

Nearly everything in the world, from grass to goblins, has a purpose, and not just as cannon fodder either. The 'virtual ecology' affects nearly every aspect of the game world, from the very small to the very large. If the rabbit population suddenly drops (because some gung-ho adventurer was trying out his new mace) then wolves may have to find different food sources (e.g., deer). When the deer population drops as a result, the local dragon, unable to find the food he’s accustomed to, may head into a local village and attack. Since all of this happens automatically, it generates numerous adventure possibilities.

 

However, this feature never made it beyond the game's beta stage. As Richard Garriott explained:

 

We thought it was fantastic. We'd spent an enormous amount of time and effort on it. But what happened was all the players went in and just killed everything; so fast that the game couldn't spawn them fast enough to make the simulation even begin. And so, this thing that we'd spent all this time on, literally no-one ever noticed – ever – and we eventually just ripped it out of the game, you know, with some sadness.



Thanks so much for posting this; I had heard months ago on this site that UO originally had a great ecology system but scrapped it when players just killed everything, lol. Good to know the details!

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  Markusrind

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/22/13
Posts: 390

8/25/14 7:24:21 PM#72
Originally posted by AG-Vuk
BFD ! It's a faction system. So your actions, choices have affects on the various races and factions in the game thereby alter your access and choice in quests and quest locations. It's similar to what Vanguard had. Possibly better instituted. So they saw the potential of what was in Vanguard and instituted it in this game. Not really ground breaking or earth shattering. In Vanguard you could change bad faction with various races either through grinding quests or diplomacy. Surprisingly Sony is borrowing from a game they've just shut down and adding it to a new game. Meh , let me know when it's something truly new and impressive. As I recall they had something less refined in SWG also.

It is nothing like a faction system, at least not in the way you have compared other systems with. The approach as explain in presentations and via the Storybricks detailing is a little more complex then kills x to make y happy.

  Markusrind

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/22/13
Posts: 390

8/25/14 7:25:05 PM#73
Originally posted by Arclan

 


 


 


Thanks so much for posting this; I had heard months ago on this site that UO originally had a great ecology system but scrapped it when players just killed everything, lol. Good to know the details!

Storybricks isn't an ecology system.

  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 626

8/25/14 7:33:00 PM#74
Originally posted by Markusrind
Originally posted by Azoth

 

But wouldn't those extra possible outcomes already have to be coded anyway ? In my limited coding experience, I assumed that there was always only 2 outcomes to a single question. 0 or 1, no or yes. While the result could contain variables on the execution, it still always result in 1 of 2 possible outcomes. (NPC attacks or he doesn't, NPC start building a church or he doesn't.)

Can you give me an exemple of how different that system will be working ?

 

Use the example given using Orcs.

Orcs desire wealth.

Some options might be: -

Travel around until they find some Gold mine and mine it out.

Find a well travelled road and waylay travellers to rob them.

Hire themselves out to the local Dark Elves.

 

Lets take the travellers example to further explore options: -

The Orcs want more wealth and so decide to call for re-inforcements to attack bigger groups.

The road is too dangerous for their group so they decide to move on to another place.

The Orcs realise that they get most gold from travelling priests and so only choose to attack priests.

 

The choices made are not either/or choices. They have various conflicting wants and needs and multiple avenues from which to pursue each of these needs.

 

Think of it like this...

Do I attack?

1 = yes

2 = no

Do I attack and if so what with?

1 = Yes with Dagger

2 = Yes with Bow

3 = No

Now add ways to escape and another weapon and see what happens.

1 = Yes with Dagger

2 = Yes with Bow

3 = Yes With spear

4 = No by hiding

5 = No by running

 

Now add in some knowledge that the NPC has about who they are thinking of attacking as they know that they are a mage and have good defences against close combat: -

1 = No. Do not attack with Dagger

2 = Yes. Attack with Bow

3 = No. Do not attack with spear

4 = No by hiding

5 = No by running

What if the NPC is too close to attack using the bow?

Or what if it was a fighter not a Mage?

Or what if the Orc was better at close combat?

Each layer of options provides another set of potential outcomes. So add in several desires, several ways to fulfil those desires, several personality traits, several bits of knowledge about the land, races or anything else and what you have is a series of decisions weighted by who the NPC is, what they are trying to achieve, what they have to do to achieve their desires, what resources they have available to achieve them...

Now some might say "but that means things are totally random" but they are not because each level of the process will be weighted based on the 'IQ' of the NPC and the process is weighted for the NPC to achieve it's goals the best they can in any given circumstance.

If you saw early storybricks video's you can see how the layers are constructed and now with the latest video's you can see how it fits together. And now that they seem to be able to procedurally generate NPC's and even entire races with variations and that they will interact with the world using their tagging system you can hopefully see how it all fits together.

 

But like I said, only 2 possible outcome for each decision. The orc will attack or he won't attack. The execution of the attack could be played differently but that is only part of a combat script. Many variable could alter what weapon or skill he will use.

Just because it is not random, doesn't mean the end result won't be exactly the same. Why make it so complicated, if in the end you get the same result. Just make it totally random and tell everyone that there is a reason for every action taken by each npc, would save a year of coding.

 

 

  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 626

8/25/14 7:37:17 PM#75
Originally posted by Markusrind
Originally posted by AG-Vuk
BFD ! It's a faction system. So your actions, choices have affects on the various races and factions in the game thereby alter your access and choice in quests and quest locations. It's similar to what Vanguard had. Possibly better instituted. So they saw the potential of what was in Vanguard and instituted it in this game. Not really ground breaking or earth shattering. In Vanguard you could change bad faction with various races either through grinding quests or diplomacy. Surprisingly Sony is borrowing from a game they've just shut down and adding it to a new game. Meh , let me know when it's something truly new and impressive. As I recall they had something less refined in SWG also.

It is nothing like a faction system, at least not in the way you have compared other systems with. The approach as explain in presentations and via the Storybricks detailing is a little more complex then kills x to make y happy.

But killing X will still make Y happy. You will just have to also collect flowers and build a temple to make Y totally love you. Except that you will have no idea what the result of your action will be, so you will just randomly have some npc love while some other will want to kill you.

 

  Markusrind

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/22/13
Posts: 390

8/25/14 7:44:02 PM#76
Originally posted by Azoth
Originally posted by Markusrind
Originally posted by Azoth

 

But wouldn't those extra possible outcomes already have to be coded anyway ? In my limited coding experience, I assumed that there was always only 2 outcomes to a single question. 0 or 1, no or yes. While the result could contain variables on the execution, it still always result in 1 of 2 possible outcomes. (NPC attacks or he doesn't, NPC start building a church or he doesn't.)

Can you give me an exemple of how different that system will be working ?

 

Use the example given using Orcs.

Orcs desire wealth.

Some options might be: -

Travel around until they find some Gold mine and mine it out.

Find a well travelled road and waylay travellers to rob them.

Hire themselves out to the local Dark Elves.

 

Lets take the travellers example to further explore options: -

The Orcs want more wealth and so decide to call for re-inforcements to attack bigger groups.

The road is too dangerous for their group so they decide to move on to another place.

The Orcs realise that they get most gold from travelling priests and so only choose to attack priests.

 

The choices made are not either/or choices. They have various conflicting wants and needs and multiple avenues from which to pursue each of these needs.

 

Think of it like this...

Do I attack?

1 = yes

2 = no

Do I attack and if so what with?

1 = Yes with Dagger

2 = Yes with Bow

3 = No

Now add ways to escape and another weapon and see what happens.

1 = Yes with Dagger

2 = Yes with Bow

3 = Yes With spear

4 = No by hiding

5 = No by running

 

Now add in some knowledge that the NPC has about who they are thinking of attacking as they know that they are a mage and have good defences against close combat: -

1 = No. Do not attack with Dagger

2 = Yes. Attack with Bow

3 = No. Do not attack with spear

4 = No by hiding

5 = No by running

What if the NPC is too close to attack using the bow?

Or what if it was a fighter not a Mage?

Or what if the Orc was better at close combat?

Each layer of options provides another set of potential outcomes. So add in several desires, several ways to fulfil those desires, several personality traits, several bits of knowledge about the land, races or anything else and what you have is a series of decisions weighted by who the NPC is, what they are trying to achieve, what they have to do to achieve their desires, what resources they have available to achieve them...

Now some might say "but that means things are totally random" but they are not because each level of the process will be weighted based on the 'IQ' of the NPC and the process is weighted for the NPC to achieve it's goals the best they can in any given circumstance.

If you saw early storybricks video's you can see how the layers are constructed and now with the latest video's you can see how it fits together. And now that they seem to be able to procedurally generate NPC's and even entire races with variations and that they will interact with the world using their tagging system you can hopefully see how it all fits together.

 

But like I said, only 2 possible outcome for each decision. The orc will attack or he won't attack. The execution of the attack could be played differently but that is only part of a combat script. Many variable could alter what weapon or skill he will use.

Just because it is not random, doesn't mean the end result won't be exactly the same. Why make it so complicated, if in the end you get the same result. Just make it totally random and tell everyone that there is a reason for every action taken by each npc, would save a year of coding.

 

 

Give me an example of what a 3rd outcome is then.

If the NPC also had the option to try and talk his way out of the fight would that still be only 2 options according to your logic of fight or don't fight. So please provide a 3rd option as you either are confused or have me confused.

The point of the example was to show that in a simple case of fight or don't fight there are many layers that affect how the decision process reached a conclusion not that the AI suddenly finds a miraculous 3rd choice.

Using your logic you could equate the entire process on the worlds economy down to "the guy either sells it or doesn't" and totally ignore all the factors that affect the choice that include small things like the mood of the guy selling something on the day to how the geo-political stability of the world is shaping that day's fortune 500.

Or another way.

The final choice I made here was to either post or not post. What I wrote, what your reply was and even if I wanted to reply at all got me to the point of posting. So are all the factors that went into my choice to post a reply irrelevant or not? If you think they are and the important part is simply did I post and not the content and reason behind it then I guess your logic wins. But I don't think it is sound logic or even reasonable logic at all. And certainly doesn't make me believe you understand how the storybricks system works.

  blubsterer

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/15/10
Posts: 89

8/25/14 7:48:42 PM#77
Thanks for the link. I'm eager to get all information regarding Storybricks that is available. A very interesting middleware with a huge potential for better gameplay. Even if SOE should fuck it up and fail to deliver (really don't hope so), I'm very optimistic that someday someone will deliver something spectacular with that approach ....
  amx23

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/14
Posts: 107

8/25/14 7:59:44 PM#78
I like how Archeage has 2 mobs in a certain area, and when you finish a quest you get the same loot as you would by killing those same monsters. Truly revolutionary! You guys were right, i should listen to you more. Since you guys paid for the beta. Were totally not suckers. Anyway,  Lets continue trolling Everquest!
  goboygo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/13
Posts: 530

8/25/14 8:02:51 PM#79

I can already tell this is going to a massively hyped feature that isn't really going to deliver anything revolutionary to the individual player.  Sure the world might be subtly evolving around the players, but it doesn't impact the core gameplay, combat will be combat, crafting will be crafting etc.  No one is going to shit their pants because a town is altered or a faction replaced or a crater is in the ground where there wasn't one before. 

I'm also not going to flip out because a mob suddenly cast a fire ball at me that was before using a bow.  I'm not knocking the innovation here but its not reinventing gameplay, the game play at its base remains unchanged.

  amx23

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/14
Posts: 107

8/25/14 8:08:55 PM#80
You dont know what you are talking about. Let the devs who are MUCH smarter than you do their jobs. Noone cares what you have to say anyway. Youre wasting bandwith. This is a perfect storm of features.
17 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last Search