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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Amazing article detailing the innovation of EQN and Storybricks

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326 posts found
  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10924

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

8/25/14 8:47:50 AM#21
Originally posted by amx23
Storybricks is an independent company with no prior games other than EQ Next which they are working on. Of course they are innovative and noone has seen the system prior to their 0.5 version shown at SOE live.

 

StoryBricks has been around for a while.  They originally intended to write a game where people wrote stories using their system, but it never got off the ground.  Maybe they realized that their system was a good bit more complicated or technical than the average person was going to want to get into.  It seemed like a near perfect fit for developers looking to add intelligence and an organic feel to their game's AI though.

 

Their website has changed but there used to be pages describing how it would have worked in their games and I think there were some videos too.

 

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Gallus85

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1114

8/25/14 9:00:08 AM#22
Originally posted by Rydeson
Originally posted by Gallus85

The key thing to note is that players will be able to change their surroundings by their actions and the world will also change over time even without player intervention.  You don't need to get so specific, as in something like "Can players bar other players from being shamans!?" to understand this fact.  They've already given examples of possibilities that work within their system.  Things like orcs taking over a town, and players driving orcs out of the town making it peaceful again where you can then use the town to buy items and resources... then the orcs could come back in force with a larger raid-sized army.... OR maybe brigands see the orcs are no longer there are decide to attack.  Or maybe that town turns into a xenophobic militarized community that attacks everyone on sight because they're so afraid from being attacked all the time.  This is already done by ArenaNet (GW2) with dynamic events, just on a smaller scale..  Trion's Rift touches this with their zone wide invasions .. So this really isn't anything new, it's just done on a bigger scale.. The wheel has already been invented, but because SOE is making it a bigger wheel isn't invention..

All you questions have already been answered.  You don't need to know about a specific scenario you dreamed up answered right now.  The key point is that the world will constantly be changing and it's not the same as scripted events like GW2 or a simple faction KOS vs Friendly system.

GW2's world is always changing too.. in fact each server is different then others..  No two servers are technically the same..  These are not real changes, they are only short term temporary effects.. Have you played GW2 yet? lol

I've played GW2 for many months and I don't understand why you can't figure out that they're drastically different systems that work in drastically different ways.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 531

8/25/14 9:18:57 AM#23
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by Rydeson
Originally posted by Gallus85

The key thing to note is that players will be able to change their surroundings by their actions and the world will also change over time even without player intervention.  You don't need to get so specific, as in something like "Can players bar other players from being shamans!?" to understand this fact.  They've already given examples of possibilities that work within their system.  Things like orcs taking over a town, and players driving orcs out of the town making it peaceful again where you can then use the town to buy items and resources... then the orcs could come back in force with a larger raid-sized army.... OR maybe brigands see the orcs are no longer there are decide to attack.  Or maybe that town turns into a xenophobic militarized community that attacks everyone on sight because they're so afraid from being attacked all the time.  This is already done by ArenaNet (GW2) with dynamic events, just on a smaller scale..  Trion's Rift touches this with their zone wide invasions .. So this really isn't anything new, it's just done on a bigger scale.. The wheel has already been invented, but because SOE is making it a bigger wheel isn't invention..

All you questions have already been answered.  You don't need to know about a specific scenario you dreamed up answered right now.  The key point is that the world will constantly be changing and it's not the same as scripted events like GW2 or a simple faction KOS vs Friendly system.

GW2's world is always changing too.. in fact each server is different then others..  No two servers are technically the same..  These are not real changes, they are only short term temporary effects.. Have you played GW2 yet? lol

I've played GW2 for many months and I don't understand why you can't figure out that they're drastically different systems that work in drastically different ways.

Probably because they aren't that much different on a player perspective. A scripted event triggered by players.

  amx23

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/06/14
Posts: 103

8/25/14 9:36:52 AM#24

Why are we defending a game of this magnitude?? The content and storylines they are puttiing into Next is not to be beaten! The trolls have truly won in this age.

 No way this game is NOT hyped up when it does everything different and seems to be the answer to fundamental problems of an mmo. People see it as a failure before it gets a chance to turn the genre upside down. But this is Everquest! the first and most popular mmo before the genre was turned casual. Where 200,000 people would clog the servers at a friday night and out of all the subscibers most people still remember it fondly. They get the same guys working on the content of this game and it will be widely successful in the years to come. Storybricks will just become more amazing as it nears completion, and as the AI improve so  will the expansions.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

8/25/14 9:54:23 AM#25
Originally posted by amx23

Why are we defending a game of this magnitude?? The content and storylines they are puttiing into Next is not to be beaten! The trolls have truly won in this age.

 No way this game is NOT hyped up when it does everything different and seems to be the answer to fundamental problems of an mmo. People see it as a failure before it gets a chance to turn the genre upside down. But this is Everquest! the first and most popular mmo before the genre was turned casual. Where 200,000 people would clog the servers at a friday night and out of all the subscibers most people still remember it fondly. They get the same guys working on the content of this game and it will be widely successful in the years to come. Storybricks will just become more amazing as it nears completion, and as the AI improve so  will the expansions.

there is nothing about this game that I find interesting to be frank.

Correlation does not imply causation

  flizzer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1293

8/25/14 9:55:51 AM#26

Of course I am excited and anxious to play this , but I do fear this is a lot of pre release hype.  After all, some of this type of talk was heard prior to the release of GW2. I play GW2 and do love the game but I do admit the pre release hype and the actual gameplay differ in degrees of magnitude.  How will EQN actually play?   

Im still not clear if anything described is really all that different.  Players will now have choices. Okay,  They will still need to add these content choices in to the game.  Whether you call it an update, expansion, or whatever, developers will need to add these changes in to the game and players will be waiting for the next content addition similar to the way we already do.   It almost seems like they are just calling these systems by different names and trying to convince us they are new and different.  I hope they are. I will be there on day one to play this game and hope I am completely wrong.  Perhaps I am just a jaded gamer who has listened to much too much pre release game hype to believe what I read.

  Betaguy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2646

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

8/25/14 9:57:06 AM#27
Originally posted by azzamasin

 http://www.eqhammer.com/column/making-worlds-content-delivery-everquest-next

I think it's obvious that EQN will have amazing innovation features that have never been present in the genre. I think it is articles like this that prove it and anyone who thinks EQN isn't going to be innovative is fooling themselves for personal reasons all because I feel they are upset it isn't going to be a clone of what has come and gone and come again. Love the direction this game is taking but I'll not get too hyped till I see it in action for myself.

I think it is fairly obvious why Tenton Hammer and others have lauded over it's potential with unheralded and unprecedented awards!

 


EDIT: For some reason it isn't letting me link with the editor so just cut and paste.

Nothing innovative there, same o, same o with a different skin. Majority don't care about NPC's developing and story. That is a small percentage of the majority that will end up trying this game.

 

Oh wow, the inn keeper remembers me pissing him/her off. Yay!

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

8/25/14 10:02:44 AM#28
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by azzamasin

 http://www.eqhammer.com/column/making-worlds-content-delivery-everquest-next

I think it's obvious that EQN will have amazing innovation features that have never been present in the genre. I think it is articles like this that prove it and anyone who thinks EQN isn't going to be innovative is fooling themselves for personal reasons all because I feel they are upset it isn't going to be a clone of what has come and gone and come again. Love the direction this game is taking but I'll not get too hyped till I see it in action for myself.

I think it is fairly obvious why Tenton Hammer and others have lauded over it's potential with unheralded and unprecedented awards!

 


EDIT: For some reason it isn't letting me link with the editor so just cut and paste.

Nothing innovative there, same o, same o with a different skin. Majority don't care about NPC's developing and story. That is a small percentage of the majority that will end up trying this game.

 

Oh wow, the inn keeper remembers me pissing him/her off. Yay!

exactly..

I know some people care about storyline but not me or my friends.

I am also burned out on:

all things that look cartoonish

combat in general

quests

fantasy genre

Correlation does not imply causation

  Gallus85

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1114

8/25/14 10:03:57 AM#29
Originally posted by Azoth
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by Rydeson
Originally posted by Gallus85

The key thing to note is that players will be able to change their surroundings by their actions and the world will also change over time even without player intervention.  You don't need to get so specific, as in something like "Can players bar other players from being shamans!?" to understand this fact.  They've already given examples of possibilities that work within their system.  Things like orcs taking over a town, and players driving orcs out of the town making it peaceful again where you can then use the town to buy items and resources... then the orcs could come back in force with a larger raid-sized army.... OR maybe brigands see the orcs are no longer there are decide to attack.  Or maybe that town turns into a xenophobic militarized community that attacks everyone on sight because they're so afraid from being attacked all the time.  This is already done by ArenaNet (GW2) with dynamic events, just on a smaller scale..  Trion's Rift touches this with their zone wide invasions .. So this really isn't anything new, it's just done on a bigger scale.. The wheel has already been invented, but because SOE is making it a bigger wheel isn't invention..

All you questions have already been answered.  You don't need to know about a specific scenario you dreamed up answered right now.  The key point is that the world will constantly be changing and it's not the same as scripted events like GW2 or a simple faction KOS vs Friendly system.

GW2's world is always changing too.. in fact each server is different then others..  No two servers are technically the same..  These are not real changes, they are only short term temporary effects.. Have you played GW2 yet? lol

I've played GW2 for many months and I don't understand why you can't figure out that they're drastically different systems that work in drastically different ways.

Probably because they aren't that much different on a player perspective. A scripted event triggered by players.

This statement only proves you don't know anything about the system, how it works and why it's drastically different.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  Thestrain

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/15/14
Posts: 221

8/25/14 10:05:22 AM#30
Originally posted by Markn
Originally posted by evilized
I'll give it 4 posts before someone says the game will fail because it's either a GW2 clone or has bad graphics. Oh, and it has all been done before, etc, etc.

 

Ya people will hate because haters are jealous.  Funny they slam the graphics when it uses the same engine as PS2 which has great graphics.  GW2 clone probably not as GW2 has a level system.

That is because people dont understand difference between artstyle and graphics. Even though graphic engine is same as PS2, art style is completely different.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

8/25/14 10:06:49 AM#31
Originally posted by Thestrain
Originally posted by Markn
Originally posted by evilized
I'll give it 4 posts before someone says the game will fail because it's either a GW2 clone or has bad graphics. Oh, and it has all been done before, etc, etc.

 

Ya people will hate because haters are jealous.  Funny they slam the graphics when it uses the same engine as PS2 which has great graphics.  GW2 clone probably not as GW2 has a level system.

That is because people dont understand difference between artstyle and graphics. Even though graphic engine is same as PS2, art style is completely different.

'completely different' is a stretch.

It still holds to its cartoonish root.

Correlation does not imply causation

  Thestrain

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/15/14
Posts: 221

8/25/14 10:07:11 AM#32
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by azzamasin

 http://www.eqhammer.com/column/making-worlds-content-delivery-everquest-next

I think it's obvious that EQN will have amazing innovation features that have never been present in the genre. I think it is articles like this that prove it and anyone who thinks EQN isn't going to be innovative is fooling themselves for personal reasons all because I feel they are upset it isn't going to be a clone of what has come and gone and come again. Love the direction this game is taking but I'll not get too hyped till I see it in action for myself.

I think it is fairly obvious why Tenton Hammer and others have lauded over it's potential with unheralded and unprecedented awards!

 


EDIT: For some reason it isn't letting me link with the editor so just cut and paste.

Nothing innovative there, same o, same o with a different skin. Majority don't care about NPC's developing and story. That is a small percentage of the majority that will end up trying this game.

 

Oh wow, the inn keeper remembers me pissing him/her off. Yay!

exactly..

I know some people care about storyline but not me or my friends.

I am also burned out on:

all things that look cartoonish

combat in general

quests

fantasy genre

There we go again. EQ2 looks nothing like a cartoon or cartoonish. When you say cartoons you are talking about looney tunes, tom and jerry, mickey mouse etc.

Understand the difference.

  Thestrain

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/15/14
Posts: 221

8/25/14 10:09:12 AM#33
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Thestrain
Originally posted by Markn
Originally posted by evilized
I'll give it 4 posts before someone says the game will fail because it's either a GW2 clone or has bad graphics. Oh, and it has all been done before, etc, etc.

 

Ya people will hate because haters are jealous.  Funny they slam the graphics when it uses the same engine as PS2 which has great graphics.  GW2 clone probably not as GW2 has a level system.

That is because people dont understand difference between artstyle and graphics. Even though graphic engine is same as PS2, art style is completely different.

'completely different' is a stretch.

It still holds to its cartoonish root.

Complete different from 'PS2'.

As far as you and your obsession with word 'cartoon'..even though i disagree. So what if it is cartoonish? does that by default makes it immature and targeted towards kids? i don't even understand what is your issue here.

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

8/25/14 10:09:39 AM#34
Originally posted by flizzer

Of course I am excited and anxious to play this , but I do fear this is a lot of pre release hype.  After all, some of this type of talk was heard prior to the release of GW2. I play GW2 and do love the game but I do admit the pre release hype and the actual gameplay differ in degrees of magnitude.  How will EQN actually play?   

Im still not clear if anything described is really all that different.  Players will now have choices. Okay,  They will still need to add these content choices in to the game.  Whether you call it an update, expansion, or whatever, developers will need to add these changes in to the game and players will be waiting for the next content addition similar to the way we already do.   It almost seems like they are just calling these systems by different names and trying to convince us they are new and different.  I hope they are. I will be there on day one to play this game and hope I am completely wrong.  Perhaps I am just a jaded gamer who has listened to much too much pre release game hype to believe what I read.

A small example.

The developers put a gold mine into the game.

Now every faction, group or individual that is affected by the desire for wealth has been dynamically changed by the introduction of this gold mine. Not only that but with every faction, group or individual affected, there will be a knock on effect with those that are not interested simply through their interaction with those that are. If you have thousand of factions, groups and individuals that are all interacting then any change could potentially have a very dramatic effect.

In essence Storybricks allows for a world to operate with a very real 'butterfly effect' going on.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

8/25/14 10:09:50 AM#35
Originally posted by Thestrain
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by azzamasin

 http://www.eqhammer.com/column/making-worlds-content-delivery-everquest-next

I think it's obvious that EQN will have amazing innovation features that have never been present in the genre. I think it is articles like this that prove it and anyone who thinks EQN isn't going to be innovative is fooling themselves for personal reasons all because I feel they are upset it isn't going to be a clone of what has come and gone and come again. Love the direction this game is taking but I'll not get too hyped till I see it in action for myself.

I think it is fairly obvious why Tenton Hammer and others have lauded over it's potential with unheralded and unprecedented awards!

 


EDIT: For some reason it isn't letting me link with the editor so just cut and paste.

Nothing innovative there, same o, same o with a different skin. Majority don't care about NPC's developing and story. That is a small percentage of the majority that will end up trying this game.

 

Oh wow, the inn keeper remembers me pissing him/her off. Yay!

exactly..

I know some people care about storyline but not me or my friends.

I am also burned out on:

all things that look cartoonish

combat in general

quests

fantasy genre

There we go again. EQ2 looks nothing like a cartoon or cartoonish. When you say cartoons you are talking about looney tunes, tom and jerry, mickey mouse etc.

Understand the difference.

ok..

the art style used in EQN

combat in general

fantasy genre

story lines

 

better?

Correlation does not imply causation

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4935

8/25/14 10:14:33 AM#36
Originally posted by ThumbtackJ
Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade

Sounds like a pretty cool feature to me. Here's to hoping it'll be as good in game as it is in theory.

Definitely a reason to keep an eye on EQNext.

I agree. Not to be a Negative Nancy, but I'll believe it when I see it. No reason to get hyped about it. It does indeed soud great, but as to whether or not it'll be as good in game as it is in writing, is what I'm skeptical about. 

This is the exact reason I am keeping a "see it to believe it" approach to EQN. Frankly, I don't really believe it right now. Not to say, it won't be properly developed, but as with all things in life, with new innovations, comes new problems. Sure you get new systems and new mechanics, but you also have new limitations, new issues and new loopholes (that players WILL find and exploit) In the end, if the new innovation is being done just for the sake of innovation without the need to overcome a "hard stop" then what you will most likely end up with is a system of trade-offs. Just like GW2. Now, I like GW2 and still play the game. But that doesn't mean I can't recognize some serious shortcomings. Sure the game has a non-trinity combat system. Sure it works. But is it better? Some say yes, but some say no. IT was a trade off. It went in a new direction, but didn't really advance the genre. A unified economy, was both bad and good. Players having individual resources nodes to gather from.....bad and good, Everyone got their mats, but those mats ultimately were not worth anything more than their vendor trash value. 

it seems that much of the motivation for GW2's innovation was to design a game that wasn't a WoW-Clone. To me, that's all the wrong reasons. They could have produced a much more successful game if they looked more closely at what worked vs what didn't work and make something based more on what has been proven to work, but make the necessary improvements on what is known to work rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater and try to re invent the wheel, just to be able to say......"it's not like WoW"

Which brings me to EQN. Why are they innovating? What is currently broken with the genre that needs a complete top to bottom re design, that looking at what already works and making the adjustments couldn't accomplish what's needed? Just because Emergent AI is not the same as Dynamic Events, doesn't mean that Emergent AI will produce the experience that it's supposed to. Dynamic Events was innovative and was supposed to produce an experience that hadn't been produced before. While we can see that DEs are in GW2, the experience that ANET said (The "What that means" part) was exaggerated. I am currently operating on the premise that SOE is also exaggerating the "What that means" part too.

There will be new bugs, new limitations, new issues and new loopholes that new mechanics always introduce, that will diminish the player experience. If this new innovation, in-spite of all the problems we won't know about until all the dust settles, brings an much improved overall experience, then I'll say it was worth it. Otherwise, it will just be another MMO.

 

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

8/25/14 10:15:11 AM#37
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Betaguy

 

Nothing innovative there, same o, same o with a different skin. Majority don't care about NPC's developing and story. That is a small percentage of the majority that will end up trying this game.

 

Oh wow, the inn keeper remembers me pissing him/her off. Yay!

exactly..

I know some people care about storyline but not me or my friends.

I am also burned out on:

all things that look cartoonish

combat in general

quests

fantasy genre

You both obviously lack any understanding of anything Storybricks, does, intends to do or that has been shown so far.

  flizzer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1293

8/25/14 10:16:26 AM#38
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by flizzer

Of course I am excited and anxious to play this , but I do fear this is a lot of pre release hype.  After all, some of this type of talk was heard prior to the release of GW2. I play GW2 and do love the game but I do admit the pre release hype and the actual gameplay differ in degrees of magnitude.  How will EQN actually play?   

Im still not clear if anything described is really all that different.  Players will now have choices. Okay,  They will still need to add these content choices in to the game.  Whether you call it an update, expansion, or whatever, developers will need to add these changes in to the game and players will be waiting for the next content addition similar to the way we already do.   It almost seems like they are just calling these systems by different names and trying to convince us they are new and different.  I hope they are. I will be there on day one to play this game and hope I am completely wrong.  Perhaps I am just a jaded gamer who has listened to much too much pre release game hype to believe what I read.

A small example.

The developers put a gold mine into the game.

Now every faction, group or individual that is affected by the desire for wealth has been dynamically changed by the introduction of this gold mine. Not only that but with every faction, group or individual affected, there will be a knock on effect with those that are not interested simply through their interaction with those that are. If you have thousand of factions, groups and individuals that are all interacting then any change could potentially have a very dramatic effect.

In essence Storybricks allows for a world to operate with a very real 'butterfly effect' going on.

Hard to imagine the complexity of all the content that will be needed to allow for this.  GW2 claims they have teams working on all aspects of the game.  How many would be needed for all these different choices?   How often would we get updates?  Yes, they would need to be updates. You might not like the word and SOE apparently doesnt but when you add content to the game you update.  Again, I forsee players just waiting on the next additional content update to the game so they can play with more choices.  Not a bad thing if SOE can deliver, for sure, but I feel we are being bamboozled with the language and superlatives used in describing these systems. 

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

8/25/14 10:21:37 AM#39
Originally posted by Thestrain
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Thestrain
Originally posted by Markn
Originally posted by evilized
I'll give it 4 posts before someone says the game will fail because it's either a GW2 clone or has bad graphics. Oh, and it has all been done before, etc, etc.

 

Ya people will hate because haters are jealous.  Funny they slam the graphics when it uses the same engine as PS2 which has great graphics.  GW2 clone probably not as GW2 has a level system.

That is because people dont understand difference between artstyle and graphics. Even though graphic engine is same as PS2, art style is completely different.

'completely different' is a stretch.

It still holds to its cartoonish root.

Complete different from 'PS2'.

As far as you and your obsession with word 'cartoon'..even though i disagree. So what if it is cartoonish? does that by default makes it immature and targeted towards kids? i don't even understand what is your issue here.

fine I will use a different word [graphics that EQN uses]

You might not want to waste your time worrying about symantec's here because it doesnt change the reality of it.

EQN graphic is NOT a 'radical' difference in art style. different? yes...radical? fuck no

Correlation does not imply causation

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

8/25/14 10:22:30 AM#40
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Betaguy

 

Nothing innovative there, same o, same o with a different skin. Majority don't care about NPC's developing and story. That is a small percentage of the majority that will end up trying this game.

 

Oh wow, the inn keeper remembers me pissing him/her off. Yay!

exactly..

I know some people care about storyline but not me or my friends.

I am also burned out on:

all things that look cartoonish

combat in general

quests

fantasy genre

You both obviously lack any understanding of anything Storybricks, does, intends to do or that has been shown so far.

and what specifically does that have to do with what I just wrote?

Correlation does not imply causation

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