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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » What made EQ, "EQ" and how could EQN follow suit?

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141 posts found
  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2543

World > Quest Progression

 
OP  8/24/14 12:07:29 PM#1

Was it the combat system?

 

Was it the artstyle?

 

Was it the vast world?

 

The need for friends?

 

EverQuest had more than a few features to set it apart even today.  While it's obvious that EQN has many more "new" features what at its core does it need to capture the feeling of its predecessors? Is it possible to create an experience both vets of the original franchise and new players to the genre can enjoy along with those all along the spectrum?

 

What made EverQuest, EverQuest?

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 6404

8/24/14 12:15:01 PM#2
It was a virtual world, not a game. The players were not heros or chosen ones. All NPCs had factions which made them a part of the virtual world. The pacing was about 20 times slower than today's games which allowed players to socialize a lot.
  syriinx

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/24/13
Posts: 996

8/24/14 12:31:59 PM#3


-Meaningful character progression outside of a couple weeks/months.  New games are designed so the endgame is the real game, so leveling is super fast.  In addition, once you get their your character progression is over.  Gear only from then out.  In EQ leveling was a true journey that took months, even years.  And with Luclin, max level didn't mean you were done progressing, AAs made it so everything you did was still progressing your character.

-The class system and group mechanics.  Many people think Trinity is tank/heals/dps.  This is false, the real holy trinity was warrior, cleric, enchanter.  You needed more than a tank and healer for EQ, and dps was just assumed.  However, where EQ was even better was you didn't necessarily need the 'holy trinity'.  No enchanter?  Fine, got a bard or monk to pull singles.  You might still want slows, but a shaman could do that, sometimes even a beastlord.  Hell my ranger every once in a while whipped out his epic to slow mobs.  No tank?  maybe a kite group.  Different classes had different ways to shine.  While my Ranger couldn't pull indoors, outdoors he was a pretty effective puller if no bard or monk was around.  If an add showed up with no mezzer, my Ranger could also root it or pull it off a healer.  I don't really get this sort of thing from newer games, especially since many of them allow you to completely change your character to fit the group, a s opposed to building the group around your abilities.

-the game world.  Its places, its lore, its character.   Some games do ok with this, but there are far too many Rifts out there with a very generic world with boring, underdeveloped races. 

  Superman0X

Elite Member

Joined: 3/28/06
Posts: 1145

8/24/14 12:37:02 PM#4
Originally posted by Aelious

Was it the combat system?

 

Was it the artstyle?

 

Was it the vast world?

 

The need for friends?

 

EverQuest had more than a few features to set it apart even today.  While it's obvious that EQN has many more "new" features what at its core does it need to capture the feeling of its predecessors? Is it possible to create an experience both vets of the original franchise and new players to the genre can enjoy along with those all along the spectrum?

 

What made EverQuest, EverQuest?

 

The thing that made EQ truly addictive was the challenge level, and the way that the load was spread across the players. This was a game that was difficult, and the way to overcome that difficulty was to work with other players. Sure, it had a level grind, gear grind, and RL learning curve, but all of those were trivial in comparison to its demands for social interaction. The (simple) solution for almost every problem, was another human.

 

I don't see this as an option for EQ Next, as the things that made EQ what it is, are also what made it a niche game.

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2543

World > Quest Progression

 
OP  8/24/14 12:40:02 PM#5
Originally posted by DMKano
It was a virtual world, not a game. The players were not heros or chosen ones. All NPCs had factions which made them a part of the virtual world. The pacing was about 20 times slower than today's games which allowed players to socialize a lot.

 

Agreed on all accounts and the one aspect that I think will not be in EQN is the slower pacing.  In fact, EQN looks to have faster combat that most MMOs right now.  To offset this would be built in VoIP systems including SoEMote but I know some people don't like VoIP as it ruins immersion.

 

EQN may be a step forward regarding the world and NPC factions.  The StoryBricks video, thought very hard to hear at times, would make those favoring NPC factions and their effects very excited.  Dave said they would redo that panel with more information but no idea when ("Soon" tm).

 

The "Hero Effect" may be weird in EQN.  While each player may have their own story it's yet to be seen how much of an impact one player alone can have at any one point.  Some of the larger objectives, such as a faction taking over a "swatch" of area, shown in the SB video looked to be over time.  The thing I do like that we've been told is that the larger world effects will take many players over time to accomplish and in some cases, like the faction struggles, will be slightly out of our control.

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

8/24/14 12:45:23 PM#6
Originally posted by Aelious
Originally posted by DMKano
It was a virtual world, not a game. The players were not heros or chosen ones. All NPCs had factions which made them a part of the virtual world. The pacing was about 20 times slower than today's games which allowed players to socialize a lot.

 

Agreed on all accounts and the one aspect that I think will not be in EQN is the slower pacing.  In fact, EQN looks to have faster combat that most MMOs right now. 

The devs have already stated that the first iteration of combat is a little too fast so it will change. How much it will change relies upon feedback from Landmark and the player reasons for change.

  Braindome

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/06/11
Posts: 619

8/24/14 12:49:57 PM#7

Pretty much everything you listed but in general if I had to boil it down I would mainly say it was the vast world and traversing it prior to the implementation of fast travel.

It was a journey, quite a journey and meeting someone when you were in dire need of help in the middle of nowhere created an amazing sense of adventure. Sometimes you would logout simply out of frustration "also the need to go to work" only to login on the weekends at about midnight or so and find out that some players were ACTUALLY AROUND the area you were having troubles at and joining in on the fun and having a grand adventure.......nothing can compare to that feeling.....nothing.

In this day of instant gratification that magic has been lost and I long for the day a developer creates a vast world that has players that are both patient and vigilant, though when you offer the players "fast travel"  and "quick progression" they will use it and you will lose that other playerbase, it's going to take a developer to focus on that type of player for it to be successful and in turn it will bring other types of players.

You can't say "well just play it the other way and don't use fast travel", cause everyone else does and the immersion is lost and that old way doesn't exist cause if fast travel is there players will use it. The game needs to be designed to be vast and about the journey and exploration for the game to retain a hardcore player base and NOT change the formula!

There is nothing saying that a game couldn't be created this way in this day and be made popular again with next gen graphics and combat revisions. It just needs to happen and hopefully it will before I croak.

Hell, I would still play EQ to this day if they hadn't dumbed-down EVERYTHING! I can say that for a FACT!

 

 

Like x 56

  Boneserino

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/07
Posts: 1066

8/24/14 1:05:37 PM#8

EQN isn't going to follow suit.

 

Enjoy your theoretical discussion.

FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  Alders

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1761

I cannot fiddle but I can make a great state of a small city.

8/24/14 1:15:57 PM#9

I'm fairly certain SOE has moved on from the playerbase that made EQ what it was.  There's just not enough of them to support a new MMO in the quantity they'd like.  No, they're going after the MOBA crowd and trying to attract new and younger fans.

I obviously don't agree with this direction but it makes financial sense. 

  ReaperJoda

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/14
Posts: 76

..."WoW copied of EQ the true 1st 3D MMO and leader of the modern MMO genre."

8/24/14 1:28:06 PM#10
Did you ever play eq?? The way the are building eqn is nothing like eq...it is shaming the eq brand name.
  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2543

World > Quest Progression

 
OP  8/24/14 1:34:34 PM#11
Originally posted by Boneserino

EQN isn't going to follow suit.

 

Enjoy your theoretical discussion.

 

That's why I started this thread as it has already evolved into more than just a theoretical discussion.  When I see an opinion like yours I immediately ask myself why someone feels like this.  EverQuest is a collection of features and lore set into a world, just like any other MMO.  It was the specifics of its features and the world that gave EQ a certain feeling to those who did, and may still, play.

 

EQN will not be an EQ clone but that doesn't mean the overall play of its feature set will be much different in spirit.  Already I've seen equivalents and even improvements in the answers listed in this thread.

  Boneserino

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/07
Posts: 1066

8/24/14 1:38:37 PM#12
Originally posted by Aelious
Originally posted by Boneserino

EQN isn't going to follow suit.

 

Enjoy your theoretical discussion.

 

That's why I started this thread as it has already evolved into more than just a theoretical discussion.  When I see an opinion like yours I immediately ask myself why someone feels like this.  EverQuest is a collection of features and lore set into a world, just like any other MMO.  It was the specifics of its features and the world that gave EQ a certain feeling to those who did, and may still, play.

 

EQN will not be an EQ clone but that doesn't mean the overall play of its feature set will be much different in spirit.  Already I've seen equivalents and even improvements in the answers listed in this thread.

Excuse me?  You have seen improvements?  Where?

 

Nothing discussed in this thread will have any bearing on the game itself.   What are you talking about?

FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2543

World > Quest Progression

 
OP  8/24/14 1:39:04 PM#13
Originally posted by ReaperJoda
Did you ever play eq?? The way the are building eqn is nothing like eq...it is shaming the eq brand name.

 

I did play it and enjoyed it very much.  We all can take something away from EQ in what we liked but things like the vast, explorable world, meaningful factions and focus on CC are being shown in EQN.  In some cases taken farther.  What things do you think are missing from what we know about EQN that make it nothing like EQ?

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2543

World > Quest Progression

 
OP  8/24/14 1:43:58 PM#14
Originally posted by Boneserino
Originally posted by Aelious
Originally posted by Boneserino

EQN isn't going to follow suit.

 

Enjoy your theoretical discussion.

 

That's why I started this thread as it has already evolved into more than just a theoretical discussion.  When I see an opinion like yours I immediately ask myself why someone feels like this.  EverQuest is a collection of features and lore set into a world, just like any other MMO.  It was the specifics of its features and the world that gave EQ a certain feeling to those who did, and may still, play.

 

EQN will not be an EQ clone but that doesn't mean the overall play of its feature set will be much different in spirit.  Already I've seen equivalents and even improvements in the answers listed in this thread.

Excuse me?  You have seen improvements?  Where?

 

Nothing discussed in this thread will have any bearing on the game itself.   What are you talking about?

 

An AI system that has NPC factions changing areas of the world via player action pressures? The ability to gain not only classes but carry influence with you that make other NPCs act differently towards you based upon your actions? A world that is truly and realistically three dimensional?

 

The reason that I said the discussion was not just theoretical is because enough has been shown or talked about EQN to make comparisons and contrasts.  I'm not expecting the game to change because of this thread of course.

  warriorpoet7

Novice Member

Joined: 9/06/09
Posts: 40

8/24/14 1:57:47 PM#15
Originally posted by DMKano
It was a virtual world, not a game. The players were not heros or chosen ones. All NPCs had factions which made them a part of the virtual world. The pacing was about 20 times slower than today's games which allowed players to socialize a lot.

Exactly this ... huge world and a pace where you could take two hours to do something and it was enough. Now, people wanna do 20 cheap quests in an hour or they get bored. 

  Boneserino

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/07
Posts: 1066

8/24/14 2:05:22 PM#16
Originally posted by Aelious
Originally posted by Boneserino
Originally posted by Aelious
Originally posted by Boneserino

EQN isn't going to follow suit.

 

Enjoy your theoretical discussion.

 

That's why I started this thread as it has already evolved into more than just a theoretical discussion.  When I see an opinion like yours I immediately ask myself why someone feels like this.  EverQuest is a collection of features and lore set into a world, just like any other MMO.  It was the specifics of its features and the world that gave EQ a certain feeling to those who did, and may still, play.

 

EQN will not be an EQ clone but that doesn't mean the overall play of its feature set will be much different in spirit.  Already I've seen equivalents and even improvements in the answers listed in this thread.

Excuse me?  You have seen improvements?  Where?

 

Nothing discussed in this thread will have any bearing on the game itself.   What are you talking about?

 

An AI system that has NPC factions changing areas of the world via player action pressures? The ability to gain not only classes but carry influence with you that make other NPCs act differently towards you based upon your actions? A world that is truly and realistically three dimensional?

 

The reason that I said the discussion was not just theoretical is because enough has been shown or talked about EQN to make comparisons and contrasts.  I'm not expecting the game to change because of this thread of course.

Well here is my theory and the last I will say on this matter.

 

This will all lead to someone saying.....why don't we just update EQ and call it EQNext?

 

End of discussion.    

FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2543

World > Quest Progression

 
OP  8/24/14 2:35:45 PM#17
Thank you to those that have constructively answered the question. I have to admit I agree with most, if not all, of them. My main concern so far, echoed by Superman0X is the need for difficult content. I don't know if this can be scaled by NPC faction influence level or not but having a gradient of solo through raid difficulties would add spice to a virtual world.

Great responses so far.
  ReallyNow10

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 1724

Don't give us stories. Give us worlds and we will make our own stories.

8/24/14 11:33:11 PM#18

1.  Consequences.  If a player played like an idiot (say zerging like in some of these WOW clones), they felt the pain.

2.  Freedom to explore.  No compulsion to follow some breadcrumb trail or to be a slave to a quest hub.

3.  Interdependency with other players.  Sure, you could go it alone, but it was safer in groups, as it should be.

4.  Downtime.  This is where folks who grouped would start to talk and form bonds of camaraderie.

5.  A world.  Norrath was set up with cultural cities and zones and other places.  Rarely did you go through a city zone once; there were always reasons to come back.  It was a shared community environment.

  kellian1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/06
Posts: 232

8/24/14 11:52:28 PM#19

I think the days of games like EQ are dead and gone. EQ had slower leveling, bad stuff happened when you died and the sense of community was rather strong. It also did not subscribe to the idea where the players in the game > the world they played in. Players in that game were not, for lack of a better term, superheros. They were adventurers who often had to rely on one another to get the job done. The world was dangerous and it wasn't there just to level the payers and give out loot.

Modern MMO's for better or worse (depending on where you fall) do not, and will not go back to that. The idea now is to reach the largest group of players you can, and to that end, you have to have a game accessible to the largest number of people even if it means compromising in other areas. I don't like it, but I'm also a realist. The reality is many of us (at least in my circle) couldn't devote nearly the time we used to on games like EQ, so it's a double edges sword. It's great that leveling is a little faster in todays MMO world, but that also seems to affect every other part of the game.

So EQnext might be able to get that sense of community, but probably won't hit any of the other points. The truth is, no modern MMO is going to go back there again, so it's not a knock on EQnext, it's just that the genre seems to have moved on from that style of gameplay and game (in my view),

  emperorwings

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/25/06
Posts: 1412

8/25/14 12:13:33 AM#20
Just grinding mobs endlessly or just sitting around talking waiting for something to spawn. That's all there is to it. If a game exactly the same got made today no one would play it. It's cause you had to talk to other people and if you were an ass hat then it would get around to everyone on the server and you'll have a harder time in the game.

This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

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