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ArcheAge

ArcheAge 

General Discussion  » Why it takes so long to translate a game ?

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67 posts found
  Lobotomist

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4839

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

 
OP  8/23/14 2:14:28 AM#1

Can someone seriously explain me, why is it taking so long ?

 

They say they are westernizing the game. What does it even mean, beyond translating ?

Is the game played with chopsticks instead of mouse, and you are reviving monsters instead of killing them, and quests are done reverse where you give quest and NPC does the quest ?

I mean what. Is it not the same game ? Can we not play the same game as Koreans ?

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5772

8/23/14 6:14:27 AM#2

 

This has been answered probably 50 times by Trion at this point on twitch streams.

 

Korean language structure is very different than English/German/French and in fact *most languages* - because it's considered an *isolate* language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_language

"Most historical linguists classify Korean as an isolate—a language with no known relationship to any other languages."

So to make everything in game make *sense* to a westerner - especially from a conceptual/logical standpoint new unique words had to be introduced.

ArcheAge being so heavy on crafting/gathering components - that part of the game had to be made *consistent* for the western gamer - so if something was called "ash wood" in one part - it was ALWAYS referred to *ash wood* for every instance where that component was actually used.

This wasn't the case in Korean version where the same item had different terms based on context - it would confuse the westerners greatly why the same crafting component would have different names in different recipes.

1. The first part was getting it all translated into a coherent and consistent way - to English

2. Once the English version was complete (which took 80% of the time) it was then translated from English to German and French

 

I am assuming that's what your question was asking, however if your question was "why is it taking SO LONG for ArcheAge to launch in US/EU" - there is a ton of additional work besides translation - like standing up new infrastructure to support ArcheAge, training Customer Service on how to GM the game, use AA specific tools, develop patch automation, database auditing and backup tools, analytics and metrics tools, integration with Trion's account and billing systems  etc.... - and the hardest piece - integration with Trion's store/platform.

All the while for every change Trion had to get back to XL, XL had to agree and then code the changes, test them - send them back to Trion for patching, then Trion had to test and confirm - then patch the US/EU servers - yeah that process is going to be a lot slower than when a dev can change/patch the game on the spot.

 

 

 

 

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3347

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

8/23/14 6:21:42 AM#3


Originally posted by Lobotomist
Can someone seriously explain me, why is it taking so long ?

 

They say they are westernizing the game. What does it even mean, beyond translating ?

Is the game played with chopsticks instead of mouse, and you are reviving monsters instead of killing them, and quests are done reverse where you give quest and NPC does the quest ?

I mean what. Is it not the same game ? Can we not play the same game as Koreans ?


"Westerners" do not like foreign culture apparently. Thus, these things apparently need to be removed from the game.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  Lobotomist

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4839

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

 
OP  8/23/14 8:31:54 AM#4
Originally posted by DMKano

 

This has been answered probably 50 times by Trion at this point on twitch streams.

 

Korean language structure is very different than English/German/French and in fact *most languages* - because it's considered an *isolate* language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_language

Boulderdash

Translating any human language takes aproximately same time. Except if its poetry. And I never heard Archeage was written in verse :D

A company , that is allready MMO company with all the infrastucture needed. IT staff that knows all about servers, billing staff that knows all about billing and support staff that knows how to talk with MMO customers.

Its not like they are building MMO company from scratch.

 

Now if for them the conversion takes almost same time as coding a new MMO (Defiance) , than i can tell you something is very fishy.

 

  Bigdaddyx

Elite Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1766

8/23/14 8:35:51 AM#5
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Originally posted by DMKano

 

This has been answered probably 50 times by Trion at this point on twitch streams.

 

Korean language structure is very different than English/German/French and in fact *most languages* - because it's considered an *isolate* language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_language

"Most historical linguists classify Korean as an isolate—a language with no known relationship to any other languages."

So to make everything in game make *sense* to a westerner - especially from a conceptual/logical standpoint new unique words had to be introduced.

ArcheAge being so heavy on crafting/gathering components - that part of the game had to be made *consistent* for the western gamer - so if something was called "ash wood" in one part - it was ALWAYS referred to *ash wood* for every instance where that component was actually used.

This wasn't the case in Korean version where the same item had different terms based on context - it would confuse the westerners greatly why the same crafting component would have different names in different recipes.

1. The first part was getting it all translated into a coherent and consistent way - to English

2. Once the English version was complete (which took 80% of the time) it was then translated from English to German and French

 

I am assuming that's what your question was asking, however if your question was "why is it taking SO LONG for ArcheAge to launch in US/EU" - there is a ton of additional work besides translation - like standing up new infrastructure to support ArcheAge, training Customer Service on how to GM the game, use AA specific tools, develop patch automation, database auditing and backup tools, analytics and metrics tools, integration with Trion's account and billing systems  etc.... - and the hardest piece - integration with Trion's store/platform.

All the while for every change Trion had to get back to XL, XL had to agree and then code the changes, test them - send them back to Trion for patching, then Trion had to test and confirm - then patch the US/EU servers - yeah that process is going to be a lot slower than when a dev can change/patch the game on the spot.

 

 

 

 

Boulderdash

Translating any human language takes aproximately same time. Except if its poetry. And I never heard Archeage was written in verse :D

And if a company , that is allready MMO company with all the infrastucture needed. IT staff that knows all about servers, billing staff that knows all about billing and support staff that knows how to talk with MMO customers.

Its not like they are building MMO company from scratch.

 

Now if for them the conversion takes almost same time as coding a new MMO (Defiance) , than i can tell you something is very fishy.

 

Have you translated any of the complex asian languages into English? that also not some small book but an enormous game like Arch Age? if yes i am ready to accept your expert opinion other wise..i can't take you seriously.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5772

8/23/14 8:40:08 AM#6
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Originally posted by DMKano

 

This has been answered probably 50 times by Trion at this point on twitch streams.

 

Korean language structure is very different than English/German/French and in fact *most languages* - because it's considered an *isolate* language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_language

"Most historical linguists classify Korean as an isolate—a language with no known relationship to any other languages."

So to make everything in game make *sense* to a westerner - especially from a conceptual/logical standpoint new unique words had to be introduced.

ArcheAge being so heavy on crafting/gathering components - that part of the game had to be made *consistent* for the western gamer - so if something was called "ash wood" in one part - it was ALWAYS referred to *ash wood* for every instance where that component was actually used.

This wasn't the case in Korean version where the same item had different terms based on context - it would confuse the westerners greatly why the same crafting component would have different names in different recipes.

1. The first part was getting it all translated into a coherent and consistent way - to English

2. Once the English version was complete (which took 80% of the time) it was then translated from English to German and French

 

I am assuming that's what your question was asking, however if your question was "why is it taking SO LONG for ArcheAge to launch in US/EU" - there is a ton of additional work besides translation - like standing up new infrastructure to support ArcheAge, training Customer Service on how to GM the game, use AA specific tools, develop patch automation, database auditing and backup tools, analytics and metrics tools, integration with Trion's account and billing systems  etc.... - and the hardest piece - integration with Trion's store/platform.

All the while for every change Trion had to get back to XL, XL had to agree and then code the changes, test them - send them back to Trion for patching, then Trion had to test and confirm - then patch the US/EU servers - yeah that process is going to be a lot slower than when a dev can change/patch the game on the spot.

 

 

 

 

Boulderdash

Translating any human language takes aproximately same time. Except if its poetry. And I never heard Archeage was written in verse :D

And if a company , that is allready MMO company with all the infrastucture needed. IT staff that knows all about servers, billing staff that knows all about billing and support staff that knows how to talk with MMO customers.

Its not like they are building MMO company from scratch.

 

Now if for them the conversion takes almost same time as coding a new MMO (Defiance) , than i can tell you something is very fishy.

 

 

Ultimately every person chooses to believe what they want sometimes in spite all the evidence.

If you believe that ArcheAge should have been translated and running in Trions data centers in 3 months - no amount of facts will change your mind, as you've already come to your own conclusion.

So when you come here asking a question, you are not looking for the answer - you seem to be only wanting to reinforce your current position - which is "its too damn slow"

 

  Lobotomist

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4839

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

 
OP  8/23/14 11:30:44 AM#7
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
 

Have you translated any of the complex asian languages into English? that also not some small book but an enormous game like Arch Age? if yes i am ready to accept your expert opinion other wise..i can't take you seriously.

I actually speak 5 languages. I dont know if you do speak as many. But I kind of know what i am talking about.

 

Lets say

If in English its : I am drinking glass of water

And in Klingon its: Glass of water is held by man drinking is action that places water into his mouth

 

A person that speaks Klingon knows that means, he also knows english (this is why he is translator) and he can say the equivalent in english. Always and in 100% with almost 0% trouble.

 

Except if Klingon talk about words not existant in english language like for example Glumbluxonbrunbia which means (loosely translated) : Being angry while kissing your left elbow and eating Nebulan green worm.

But I think Koreans are from planet earth, so we dont have such problems.

 

 

 

  Bigdaddyx

Elite Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1766

8/23/14 11:38:07 AM#8
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
 

Have you translated any of the complex asian languages into English? that also not some small book but an enormous game like Arch Age? if yes i am ready to accept your expert opinion other wise..i can't take you seriously.

I actually speak 5 languages. I dont know if you do speak as many. But I kind of know what i am talking about.

 

Lets say

If in English its : I am drinking glass of water

And in Klingon its: Glass of water is held by man drinking is action that places water into his mouth

 

A person that speaks Klingon knows that means, he also knows english (this is why he is translator) and he can say the equivalent in english. Always and in 100% with almost 0% trouble.

 

Except if Klingon talk about words not existant in english language like for example Glumbluxonbrunbia which means (loosely translated) : Being angry while kissing your left elbow and eating Nebulan green worm.

But I think Koreans are from planet earth, so we dont have such problems.

 

 

 

I speak manadarin, japanese thanks to my mom and dad. I was born in France and later moved to US so i also speak french and english. I have little experience with Korean but i can assure you that out of all these mandarin and korean are the most complex languages.

And did you just give an example of klingon?

I don't know if you are pulling my leg right now or being serious.

So like i said earlier since you have no first hand experience with the language so i am going to dis regard what you said.

  cheyane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/17/09
Posts: 2433

8/23/14 11:39:17 AM#9
Do you know what they need ? Korean drama translators. I watch a lot of Korean drama and if a popular drama comes out at 2 pm today by about 12 midnight 95 % of the drama is translated in sites like Viki by volunteers. The language is indeed complex and although thanks to my avid Korean drama watching I can understand some words I still find some of their expressions very difficult to grasp.

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  Hysteric

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/12/04
Posts: 26

8/23/14 11:45:18 AM#10

Holy crap, did he just give you an example of Klingon in his argument?  Haha, wow lost all respect for your argument with that.

 

  Lobotomist

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4839

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

 
OP  8/23/14 12:20:39 PM#11
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
 

Have you translated any of the complex asian languages into English? that also not some small book but an enormous game like Arch Age? if yes i am ready to accept your expert opinion other wise..i can't take you seriously.

I actually speak 5 languages. I dont know if you do speak as many. But I kind of know what i am talking about.

 

Lets say

If in English its : I am drinking glass of water

And in Klingon its: Glass of water is held by man drinking is action that places water into his mouth

 

A person that speaks Klingon knows that means, he also knows english (this is why he is translator) and he can say the equivalent in english. Always and in 100% with almost 0% trouble.

 

Except if Klingon talk about words not existant in english language like for example Glumbluxonbrunbia which means (loosely translated) : Being angry while kissing your left elbow and eating Nebulan green worm.

But I think Koreans are from planet earth, so we dont have such problems.

 

 

 

I speak manadarin, japanese thanks to my mom and dad. I was born in France and later moved to US so i also speak french and english. I have little experience with Korean but i can assure you that out of all these mandarin and korean are the most complex languages.

And did you just give an example of klingon?

I don't know if you are pulling my leg right now or being serious.

So like i said earlier since you have no first hand experience with the language so i am going to dis regard what you said.

So you are good reference.

A word illustrating this idea: The dog is red

How more complex (measured in seconds) would be to translate this from french to english , opposed from mandarin to english?

You can time yourself.

 

 

And yes.

It was mistake to use ironical reference to Klingon.

I thought that illustrating impossible language as to reference to something incredibly difficult to translate will be whimsical if language is also fictional.

But I know that irony is lost on internet forum goers.

  Zegaloth

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/12/12
Posts: 49

8/23/14 12:29:31 PM#12

Well I am sure the people who wasted $50+ on the game would be pretty sore if alpha and beta was over in a few months.

Those packs are a huge incentive for them not to release the game quicker. Not sure if its true, but why give people something for free if you can get $50+ from them instead.

  Lobotomist

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4839

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

 
OP  8/23/14 12:54:31 PM#13
Originally posted by Zegaloth

Well I am sure the people who wasted $50+ on the game would be pretty sore if alpha and beta was over in a few months.

Those packs are a huge incentive for them not to release the game quicker. Not sure if its true, but why give people something for free if you can get $50+ from them instead.

Logic

  Bigdaddyx

Elite Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1766

8/23/14 1:30:49 PM#14
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
 

Have you translated any of the complex asian languages into English? that also not some small book but an enormous game like Arch Age? if yes i am ready to accept your expert opinion other wise..i can't take you seriously.

I actually speak 5 languages. I dont know if you do speak as many. But I kind of know what i am talking about.

 

Lets say

If in English its : I am drinking glass of water

And in Klingon its: Glass of water is held by man drinking is action that places water into his mouth

 

A person that speaks Klingon knows that means, he also knows english (this is why he is translator) and he can say the equivalent in english. Always and in 100% with almost 0% trouble.

 

Except if Klingon talk about words not existant in english language like for example Glumbluxonbrunbia which means (loosely translated) : Being angry while kissing your left elbow and eating Nebulan green worm.

But I think Koreans are from planet earth, so we dont have such problems.

 

 

 

I speak manadarin, japanese thanks to my mom and dad. I was born in France and later moved to US so i also speak french and english. I have little experience with Korean but i can assure you that out of all these mandarin and korean are the most complex languages.

And did you just give an example of klingon?

I don't know if you are pulling my leg right now or being serious.

So like i said earlier since you have no first hand experience with the language so i am going to dis regard what you said.

So you are good reference.

A word illustrating this idea: The dog is red

How more complex (measured in seconds) would be to translate this from french to english , opposed from mandarin to english?

You can time yourself.

 

 

And yes.

It was mistake to use ironical reference to Klingon.

I thought that illustrating impossible language as to reference to something incredibly difficult to translate will be whimsical if language is also fictional.

But I know that irony is lost on internet forum goers.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4880

8/23/14 1:45:53 PM#15
Language complexities are involved with learning a language, not translating it. Translators already understand both languages fluently. Complexity isn't an issue, since they should already be able to think conceptually in either, that is, unless the translator isn't really that fluent in one language or the other.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Bigdaddyx

Elite Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1766

8/23/14 1:53:23 PM#16
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Language complexities are involved with learning a language, not translating it. Translators already understand both languages fluently. Complexity isn't an issue, since they should already be able to think conceptually in either, that is, unless the translator isn't really that fluent in one language or the other.

No matter how fluent you are as a translator the task is till enormous to translate every single korean word into english. it is not same as translating say french into english. I know because i have tried learning Korean and even with my knowledge of chinese language it is still hard.

  Soandsoso

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/08/12
Posts: 471

8/23/14 2:00:28 PM#17
Originally posted by Lobotomist

Can someone seriously explain me, why is it taking so long ?

 

They say they are westernizing the game. What does it even mean, beyond translating ?

Is the game played with chopsticks instead of mouse, and you are reviving monsters instead of killing them, and quests are done reverse where you give quest and NPC does the quest ?

I mean what. Is it not the same game ? Can we not play the same game as Koreans ?

You could learn to read and write Korean if you think that would be quicker for you.

  Grunty

Elite Member

Joined: 4/06/04
Posts: 6870

8/23/14 2:03:50 PM#18
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Originally posted by DMKano

 

This has been answered probably 50 times by Trion at this point on twitch streams.

 

Korean language structure is very different than English/German/French and in fact *most languages* - because it's considered an *isolate* language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_language

Boulderdash

Translating any human language takes aproximately same time. Except if its poetry. And I never heard Archeage was written in verse :D

A company , that is allready MMO company with all the infrastucture needed. IT staff that knows all about servers, billing staff that knows all about billing and support staff that knows how to talk with MMO customers.

Its not like they are building MMO company from scratch.

 

Now if for them the conversion takes almost same time as coding a new MMO (Defiance) , than i can tell you something is very fishy.

 

For the same reason you used boulderdash when the word is balderdash.  Most people don't use grammatically correct language all of the time.  Slang does not translate well. Humor can be difficult to translate. Sarcasm is especially difficult and, between some languages, impossible to translate.

I could name a regular member here who does his own translation from French Canadian to English and he still can't be understood.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16768

8/23/14 2:09:30 PM#19
Originally posted by Lobotomist

Can someone seriously explain me, why is it taking so long ?

They say they are westernizing the game. What does it even mean, beyond translating ?

Is the game played with chopsticks instead of mouse, and you are reviving monsters instead of killing them, and quests are done reverse where you give quest and NPC does the quest ?

I mean what. Is it not the same game ? Can we not play the same game as Koreans ?

Anyone who ever played a Japanese RPG translated through a babelfish know the answer to this question.... Translating is harder then one would think.

Then again, they aren't exactly rushing things but there is a lot of work, MMOs have loads of text after all.

  Lobotomist

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4839

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

 
OP  8/23/14 2:10:22 PM#20

Whatever.

For fanboy they can say it takes them 2 year because the red color is too red in game and they needed to hire color specialist to convert every red color in game into less red.

And I would have here a fanboy arguing how its very logical and valid.

 

 

Point is : lame excuse is lame.

And for whatever reason they are witholding the game, its not because of translation

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