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WildStar 

General Discussion  » Wildstar Abandons Monthly Updates - Failure or Outbreak of Rational Thinking?

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66 posts found
  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

 
OP  8/22/14 3:12:41 PM#1

http://www.neoseeker.com/news/25839-carbine-abandoning-monthly-wildstar-content-drop-promise-defile-to-release-in-next-few-months/

 

The Wildstar team has decided that updating the game every month is either impossible, or just a bad idea.  I would tend to agree myself.  You can code fast, or you can code clean, but you're probably not going to code clean and fast.

 

Now, here's the question.  Do you think the Wildstar team knew they were going to fall behind, or do you think they really thought they would keep up the update a month pace?

 

Did they know?

They knew, but liked the good press.
They did not know, and really thought they could do it.
Muffins!
(login to vote)

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

8/22/14 3:19:41 PM#2

I don't know that lack of content is it's major issue right now anyway. I would hope the real reason they got pulled off new content was to fix or change what's wrong with the game right now.

Raiding for example is a huge focus of the game....but they put attunments on them ? if wow learns 6 years ago that you can't have hardcore raiding when guilds can't get enough raiders to fill their ranks and keep them full....there's no excuse for someone trying to become a raiding game to make that same mistake.

 

  Iceman8235

Novice Member

Joined: 5/28/04
Posts: 186

8/22/14 3:32:08 PM#3
I feel like it was just the normal developer optimism to make deadlines and push the employees.  If you don't make any date progress overall would be slower than if you make a really optimistic date that you may or may not make.  As the other guy said not making the monthly content deadline is the least of their worries at this point.
  Daessar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/13
Posts: 207

8/22/14 3:37:14 PM#4
Originally posted by DamonVile

Raiding for example is a huge focus of the game....but they put attunments on them ? if wow learns 6 years ago that you can't have hardcore raiding when guilds can't get enough raiders to fill their ranks and keep them full.

 

 

So first off.....this game isn't Wow and doesn't need to conform to their views or policies on the game.

Now that that's out of the way, the "guild's can't get enough raiders to fill their ranks" has nothing to do with attunements and everything to do with poor guild management. The complaints come from the instant gratification crowd that only want lightning fast progression, if they can't chew through content in less than 30 days, then its "a bad idea".

I see comments floating around from certain players in so called "hardcore" guilds, who announce that it took 3 days of raiding to defeat a boss....and they are exhausted and aren't sure if they want to continue.......really...3 raid days and throwing in the towel huh?, pretty disgusting.

  Azaron_Nightblade

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/12
Posts: 1360

8/22/14 3:41:04 PM#5

Every MMO has this problem. So they were either very unexperienced or very arrogant to believe that they would pull off something the others can't.

So I went with "They knew, but like the good publicity".

My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

  Cougan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/04/08
Posts: 392

8/22/14 3:41:45 PM#6

Bit odd they dropped that so quickly. That was actually a good selling point a lot of people commented on.

Read this article with quotes from their exec producer from before

http://www.vg247.com/2014/04/29/wildstars-first-16-months-of-post-release-content-are-already-in-pre-production/ 

Personally it makes it sound like they're going to spread the content out to make it last longer.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6100

8/22/14 3:46:17 PM#7

Well, it's a failure to live up to their stated promise. That's never a good thing. On the other hand, maybe they promised the wrong thing. Time for a stupid food analogy: Back in the day tough people loved brussels sprouts. We're going to give you a huge new helping of brussels sprouts every day. Come to find out that most people didn't like brussels sprouts as much as some thought, and on top of that rotten brussels sprouts were even less popular.

Carbine had this vision of what they thought people wanted. They tried to deliver that, but it had some problems. Adding more of that monthly isn't going to make most unhappy people happier. Now if there are enough happy people then they should keep adding the content monthly, since they promised it and it was one of their pillers of charging for the subscription. Abandoning those updates signals to me that not enough people are happy with the game as it stands. Carbine needs to readjust their vision, fix their game (whatever that means), find their target demographic, and go with that.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Satsunoryu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/23/06
Posts: 284

8/22/14 3:47:22 PM#8
Thank goodness.  Now hopefully they will fix the game, particularly on the PVP side.
  alkarionlog

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/09
Posts: 1078

8/22/14 3:53:05 PM#9

you forgot the not going as well as the devs hoped for and started to cut the dev team for a lower budget.

 

also Gw2 do the whole living story each 2 weeks with no bugs mostly :)

FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.

  sneaky

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/04
Posts: 2

8/22/14 3:53:25 PM#10
I think this mindset is what is ruining games now days, if we are paying a monthly premium on games we are paying for continued updates. If you look at most old games like EQ1, Asheron's Call, Anarchy Online. They had very consistant content updates. Hell Asheron's Call had monthly updates for 14 years tell it just went FTP. I think the developers now days think that once they release a game they only new content they ever will bring out is an expansion, and as a long time gamer and i think many would agree that we very much enjoy having new content to explore and discover.

  danwest58

Novice Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 597

8/22/14 3:53:42 PM#11
Originally posted by Daessar
Originally posted by DamonVile

Raiding for example is a huge focus of the game....but they put attunments on them ? if wow learns 6 years ago that you can't have hardcore raiding when guilds can't get enough raiders to fill their ranks and keep them full.

 

 

So first off.....this game isn't Wow and doesn't need to conform to their views or policies on the game.

Now that that's out of the way, the "guild's can't get enough raiders to fill their ranks" has nothing to do with attunements and everything to do with poor guild management. The complaints come from the instant gratification crowd that only want lightning fast progression, if they can't chew through content in less than 30 days, then its "a bad idea".

I see comments floating around from certain players in so called "hardcore" guilds, who announce that it took 3 days of raiding to defeat a boss....and they are exhausted and aren't sure if they want to continue.......really...3 raid days and throwing in the towel huh?, pretty disgusting.

I have a few friends that were raiding in WS and where in top 100 US guilds.  There bitch about WS raiding is everyone has to be on their game and one mistake by 1 person could wipe the raid.  Thats mentally exhausting and I can see where they are tired of WS.  Back in Classic WOW even during the BWL days you could take some mistakes from players and cover them up if you have a group of strong players.  Even WoW 40 man raiding was forgiving enough that small mistakes were easy to recover from.  One of the ones I remember very clearly in MC was  Magmadar.  I knew the tank we had the one night could not stance dance to save his life, however I knew this and when he got feared I picked up Mag after about 3 seconds and tanked him the rest of the fight.  It pissed off the tank but o well.  Raid didnt wipe because of 1 mistake.

Now when you talk about the instant gratification crowd that has even crept into the top end raiders.  Right now during the WOD beta we have 14/14 H raiders to dont want anything more than 10 min 5 man heroics because they dont want to spend time wiping in a 5 man instance plus they dont want to put any effort at the 5 man level to so it has to be fast as possible.  Yet I am a flex raider right now and play to get back to progression style raiding I did 5+ years ago and do Normal and Heroics in WOD.  I would love BC Heroic type instances again because on my non raid nights I had a challenge and I was not bored out of my mind.  I also learned from Classic that too many raid nights drove me batshit crazy.  But most of todays MMO population want content done in 30 days like you said then they are bored for 6 months waiting for the next big raid.  

 

Core problem?  MMO players are no longer looking at an MMO as something they play for years, its 1 to 3 months then do something else.  Its Sad.  

  Shodanas

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/05/10
Posts: 804

8/22/14 3:55:33 PM#12
Originally posted by Daessar
Originally posted by DamonVile

Raiding for example is a huge focus of the game....but they put attunments on them ? if wow learns 6 years ago that you can't have hardcore raiding when guilds can't get enough raiders to fill their ranks and keep them full.

 

 

So first off.....this game isn't Wow and doesn't need to conform to their views or policies on the game.

Now that that's out of the way, the "guild's can't get enough raiders to fill their ranks" has nothing to do with attunements and everything to do with poor guild management. The complaints come from the instant gratification crowd that only want lightning fast progression, if they can't chew through content in less than 30 days, then its "a bad idea".

I see comments floating around from certain players in so called "hardcore" guilds, who announce that it took 3 days of raiding to defeat a boss....and they are exhausted and aren't sure if they want to continue.......really...3 raid days and throwing in the towel huh?, pretty disgusting.

I presume you're better than raiders in Death and Taxes then, one of the top raiding guilds in the world. Go to WS forums and read a lengthy post made by a DnT officer regarding the current state of the game. Feel free to leave a reply to said post calling him a "so called hardcore player" as well. 

  Boneserino

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/07
Posts: 1065

8/22/14 3:55:35 PM#13

Well I think they probably felt that in order to get people to buy into the subscription model of payment, they had to offer pretty frequent updates.   Monthly was probably a little  over optomistic tho.

 

Which leads to the second point that Lizardbones mentioned.  In order to program all that content quickly, you would need many people working on it.   My guess would be that at this point the money isn't exactly flowing in the way they anticipated it would.   I am thinking that they are already looking at going into survival mode and allocating resources to where it will do most good.  

Promises have gone out the window now, its time to make players happy before things get out of hand.

FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  Heretique

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/02/07
Posts: 1002

Most of my posts get deleted.

8/22/14 3:58:32 PM#14
Just another promise thrown out the window as always to sell boxes/subs. We'll see what happens, just hate to say it "business as usual" for this genre.

Originally posted by salsa41
are you have problem ?

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7642

8/22/14 4:02:06 PM#15

"Hey all,

So a lot of folks have been speculating about our next drop and I wanted to talk about it in detail.

The plan was to roll out a zone next month, and a pretty badass one at that. The new zone and its contents not only sets up the epic ongoing world story of WildStar, but provides more group and solo content along with costumes, items, etc. What we hadn’t planned for was the mountain of feedback. You guys have been vocal about everything from bugs, early level content, attunement, PvP and Elder Game. And we were listening.

Because of that, we decided to make a change. We are adding a month’s worth of feedback and bugfixes to the mix based on player feedback and user experiences. These are changes to core systems such as economy, classes, PvP, crafting - you name it. We’re knocking out bugs and making changes to improve your gameplay experience. We want to roll these issues into the patch with the new zone content and that’s going to take some more time.

How much time you ask? That’s an excellent question! We’re going to take the time to make sure that this next patch is not only badass but bug free. I’ll update you again shortly with the list of details on what’s being addressed in the game and the timeframe.

And from the entire team, thanks for your continued patience and support. We can’t do this without you."

https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/110069-development-update/

  Bigdaddyx

Elite Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1984

8/22/14 4:02:22 PM#16
Originally posted by sneaky
I think this mindset is what is ruining games now days, if we are paying a monthly premium on games we are paying for continued updates. If you look at most old games like EQ1, Asheron's Call, Anarchy Online. They had very consistant content updates. Hell Asheron's Call had monthly updates for 14 years tell it just went FTP. I think the developers now days think that once they release a game they only new content they ever will bring out is an expansion, and as a long time gamer and i think many would agree that we very much enjoy having new content to explore and discover.

Coding now is way complex. To release monthly content is almost impossible. Funcom tried it with TSW, Trion tried it with Defiance (just two examples) and so far failed to keep up the quality.

And i wouldn't call GW2 living content something to brag about given the scope of content they release.

  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

 
OP  8/22/14 4:05:33 PM#17
Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade

Every MMO has this problem. So they were either very unexperienced or very arrogant to believe that they would pull off something the others can't.

So I went with "They knew, but like the good publicity".

 

There do seem to be a lot of recurring events in the release cycle of a new MMORPG.  One is the increase in time between updates, and another is the influx of spammers, botters followed quickly by security holes and fixes.  Though, if Wildstar and ESO can skip the security holes and fixes bit, I think that would be good.  We don't need everything to be on repeat.

 

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

8/22/14 4:09:12 PM#18
Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade

Every MMO has this problem. So they were either very unexperienced or very arrogant to believe that they would pull off something the others can't.

So I went with "They knew, but like the good publicity".

My impression was arrogance that they knew what people wanted and how to do it. SWTOR started out that way too. But where they thought everyone would reroll 16 alts so they didn't need end game wildstar seemed to think everyone would raid.

  Boneserino

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/07
Posts: 1065

8/22/14 4:10:02 PM#19
Originally posted by bcbully

"Hey all,

So a lot of folks have been speculating about our next drop and I wanted to talk about it in detail.

The plan was to roll out a zone next month, and a pretty badass one at that. The new zone and its contents not only sets up the epic ongoing world story of WildStar, but provides more group and solo content along with costumes, items, etc. What we hadn’t planned for was the mountain of feedback. You guys have been vocal about everything from bugs, early level content, attunement, PvP and Elder Game. And we were listening.

Because of that, we decided to make a change. We are adding a month’s worth of feedback and bugfixes to the mix based on player feedback and user experiences. These are changes to core systems such as economy, classes, PvP, crafting - you name it. We’re knocking out bugs and making changes to improve your gameplay experience. We want to roll these issues into the patch with the new zone content and that’s going to take some more time.

How much time you ask? That’s an excellent question! We’re going to take the time to make sure that this next patch is not only badass but bug free. I’ll update you again shortly with the list of details on what’s being addressed in the game and the timeframe.

And from the entire team, thanks for your continued patience and support. We can’t do this without you."

https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/110069-development-update/

Yea absolutely right BC, they are trying , lets give them props for that.   I don't think stopping the monthly update thing is a big deal yet, but it shows they got issues and they working to get on them fast , rather than sticking their head in the sand until it is too late.

FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6100

8/22/14 4:11:12 PM#20
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
Originally posted by sneaky
I think this mindset is what is ruining games now days, if we are paying a monthly premium on games we are paying for continued updates. If you look at most old games like EQ1, Asheron's Call, Anarchy Online. They had very consistant content updates. Hell Asheron's Call had monthly updates for 14 years tell it just went FTP. I think the developers now days think that once they release a game they only new content they ever will bring out is an expansion, and as a long time gamer and i think many would agree that we very much enjoy having new content to explore and discover.

Coding now is way complex. To release monthly content is almost impossible. Funcom tried it with TSW, Trion tried it with Defiance (just two examples) and so far failed to keep up the quality.

And i wouldn't call GW2 living content something to brag about given the scope of content they release.

Why does Asheron's Call get credit for monthly updates but GW2 doesn't? Were those updates any meatier?

I don't think monthly updates are essential. Getting a return on your $15/mo is. Lineage has been going for 15 years now and is one of the strongest subscription mmos in the world, pretty much second only to WoW, and it doesn't have monthly updates.

Curse you AquaScum!

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