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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Where is EQN?

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47 posts found
  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19520

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

8/17/14 10:23:36 PM#21
Is Landmark even 60% complete yet?

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
"People can do with their money what they want. But... that doesn't make it smart" - COORS
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  azzamasin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2840

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

8/17/14 10:31:31 PM#22
Originally posted by DMKano

Without Landmark there is no EQNext - SoE has been clear about this from the start.

SoE needs players to build assets for EQNext because that was their plan for Landmark.

Get the tools out to the community, have style guidelines set (example Dark Elf city) and let players design it according to SoE guidelines.

 

However that line about "EQNext has been in front of you the entire time in form of Landmark" was also followed later with "We've been really busy with Landmark" - which means 90% of their EQNext Dev was all focused on Landmark.

So for the last year its all been mostly Landmark work - EQNext dev was minimal at best and it showed - dark elves and couple of classes thrown together in super rough state for the sake of SoE Live - shown in a video, not even playable.

So again they've been working on Landmark as that is the building tool for EQNext.

Actual work of EQNext *in my opinion* was minimal at best - I am not buying the 60% done line for one second.

That to me sounds like pure damage control.

Again all of this is 100% my opinion.

I agree with you that most of their work has been done on Landmark much to my chagrin however I disagree that it is damage control.  I am fine waiting on the game and to me it sounds like you're fairly upset that the game is'nt coming out faster.  Patience my friend.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  alyndale

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 831

When you learn that a truth is a lie, anger follows.Grace Slick

8/17/14 10:33:19 PM#23

To borrow from Blizzard and applied for SoE's EQ: Next; It will be ready when it's finished. Now, how many times have we seen in forums here where folk seem to agree that they would much rather wait a while for an mmo to be thoroughly tested proven as bug free as possible. I, for one subscribe to this.

However, the unique aspect to testing EQ Next is found in the creation of Landmark. Here is the testing ground for almost all of the EQ Next assets. When problems are found in Landmark they are worked on and improved. Once they feel that part of Landmark which is shared by EQ Next is ready it is then implemented. At least that is how I envision. More than likely, it a bit more complicated than this, but could be a way to see this take place going forward. Uniquely as well is that the most creatively gifted players will have their creations introduce as permanent parts of the new mmo. I do not accept that SoE is so "broke" that the gamer has to do the design and development of EQ Next. This is simply a "reach" from some very frustrated folk it seems.

If I were to predict a time for alpha, I can see next year's SoE Live as being an excellent time to celebrate the successes of the released Landmark and to further ramp up excitement for EQ Next with a possible alpha announcement much in the same vein as we saw last year with Landmark. This might mean a January/February 2016 alpha fundraiser/early access. Closed beta sometime in Q 2 of 2016 with the earliest possible full release by December, although my money would be on Q 1 of 2017.

This is all a guess, but fun to think about all the same :)

Alyn

All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon

  Burdoc101

Novice Member

Joined: 9/29/12
Posts: 280

 
OP  8/17/14 10:43:18 PM#24

After watching the MMORPG.com interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtGfWgW5kDs&feature=youtu.be) several things came to note in my mind.

 

1. Sarnarks are probably not going to make it into EQN as a playable race...RIP

2.  Races are going to be unlocked as the world is explored and expanded upon...I am not sure how I feel about this.

3. Dave does state that EQN was 60% complete, but that was a rough estimate and he did not sound confident in his answer. So I can only assume it was an over-estimation. 

  ice-vortex

Novice Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 921

8/17/14 10:59:11 PM#25

A lot of MMO development, especially for a sandbox, is system development. The one thing EQN and Landmark will share are the basic systems even if they will have different implementations of them. An example is the combat. Both will share the same type of action combat, but each will implement it in a different way.

There's a number of systems yet to go for Landmark including combat (end of the month), flowing water (sometime in autumn), and Storybricks (probably also later this year). Once they get all the systems they plan to add in, they can focus only on the content on EQN.

  Giffen

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/28/04
Posts: 240

8/17/14 11:47:37 PM#26
Originally posted by DMKano

Without Landmark there is no EQNext - SoE has been clear about this from the start.

SoE needs players to build assets for EQNext because that was their plan for Landmark.

Get the tools out to the community, have style guidelines set (example Dark Elf city) and let players design it according to SoE guidelines.

 

However that line about "EQNext has been in front of you the entire time in form of Landmark" was also followed later with "We've been really busy with Landmark" - which means 90% of their EQNext Dev was all focused on Landmark.

So for the last year its all been mostly Landmark work - EQNext dev was minimal at best and it showed - dark elves and couple of classes thrown together in super rough state for the sake of SoE Live - shown in a video, not even playable.

So again they've been working on Landmark as that is the building tool for EQNext.

Actual work of EQNext *in my opinion* was minimal at best - I am not buying the 60% done line for one second.

That to me sounds like pure damage control.

Again all of this is 100% my opinion.

Most of the time it takes to develop an MMO is in the art assets.  That is why Landmark will make EQNext development much faster once the tools are all in place. 

  AmbrosiaAmor

Novice Member

Joined: 11/24/10
Posts: 905

8/18/14 12:03:36 AM#27
Originally posted by Burdoc101

After watching the MMORPG.com interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtGfWgW5kDs&feature=youtu.be) several things came to note in my mind.

3. Dave does state that EQN was 60% complete, but that was a rough estimate and he did not sound confident in his answer. So I can only assume it was an over-estimation. 

 

It probably was a rough estimate. 2016 seems like the year that quite a few forum posters gravitate to. If I wanted to be ultra-positive then I would say that Q3/Q4 2015 for alpha/beta might be possible. I think part of the confusion in that MMORPG.com has cited the estimate release date as 2014... which will not happen. I think 60% of the features they want to implement are done, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the percentage given in the interview ties in with the "entire scope" of the game. I already have it in my mind that the game will not be released till late 2015/early 2016… if it comes out earlier then even better.

  cerulean2012

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 292

8/18/14 12:47:21 AM#28
I think we will be extremely lucky to see EQN go to alpha in 2015 and 2016 for beta/release at best.
  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7677

8/18/14 1:00:18 AM#29

Dave is as bad as Smedly. Smedly gives the grand false vision, and Dave's lying ass sells it. I can't believe anything coming out this division unless I can see it being played. I can't believe how much this past year of EQN "development" has soured me on SOE and even more so this Everquest team. 

 

I'm sorry OP. I was excited about new info too. I saw the way they just change up and edit out though. It means nothing.

  Gallus85

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1115

8/18/14 1:06:34 AM#30
Originally posted by Burdoc101
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by DMKano

 

Yeah a shit ton of work that Landmark currently doesn't even touch.

 

You list a lot of things and assume they haven't already been working on these things for a long time now.  Every game dev knows tool creation and engine development is what takes the most time when creating a game.  Nothing you stated suggests they need more than year to finish up.  Especially for a large company like SOE that has a huge amount of money and resources at their disposal.  

 But they are creating two separate games; two separate MMO titles. So, I can only assume that both will take longer, because of manpower being split up.  I will say again that both are using the same/similar assets and that will be extremely useful to speed up production with Next once Landmark is finished.

Why do you assume that they "split up manpower"?  SOE is a large company with good financial backing.  More than likely they have 2 full teams working on both games at the same time and on top of this are sharing the same engine and a host of assets between each other, which would mean they could make 2 games in less time than it takes 2 different companies to make 2 separate games of comparable size and scope.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  Allein

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/13
Posts: 1132

8/18/14 2:20:08 AM#31
Originally posted by bcbully

Dave is as bad as Smedly. Smedly gives the grand false vision, and Dave's lying ass sells it. I can't believe anything coming out this division unless I can see it being played. I can't believe how much this past year of EQN "development" has soured me on SOE and even more so this Everquest team. 

I'm sorry OP. I was excited about new info too. I saw the way they just change up and edit out though. It means nothing.

Two questions.

Do you blindly believe what other devs say without showing proof?

Why are you following a game that is far from release if you don't believe what they are saying? 

 

  Allein

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/13
Posts: 1132

8/18/14 2:31:35 AM#32
Originally posted by DMKano

However that line about "EQNext has been in front of you the entire time in form of Landmark" was also followed later with "We've been really busy with Landmark" - which means 90% of their EQNext Dev was all focused on Landmark.

So if the crafting team is working on crafting in Landmark, that has no impact on crafting in EQN? Or the combat team. Or the cave/tier team. Or the gear team? Or the AI team? Or the ...... While I'd hope/assume that all these systems will be a bit more substantial in EQN, Landmark's shouldn't be completely different. 

So for the last year its all been mostly Landmark work - EQNext dev was minimal at best and it showed - dark elves and couple of classes thrown together in super rough state for the sake of SoE Live - shown in a video, not even playable.

Did you watch the Landmark keynote and see combat, gear, skills working? You can't believe that what was shown in the EQN class/combat scenes wasn't the same system just being filmed from afar? Seriously?

Did you notice that they filmed the combat/classes so they could go step by step and explain what was going on?

Could they have lived demoed it? Probably, they did last year. Does it prove the game isn't playable? For me it would only be if you some how think classes-gear-skills-combat work completely different than Landmark on the basic level. Which you might, but seems odd knowing what we do of how the two relate.

Only thing they didn't show "playable" is the AI. Still looked like dummy spawned NPCs to one shot, just like last year. Beyond that, combat/skills seemed fully functional, although probably not 100% complete.

Again all of this is 100% my opinion.

Very correct about that.

 

  Allein

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/13
Posts: 1132

8/18/14 2:38:16 AM#33
Originally posted by Gallus85

Why do you assume that they "split up manpower"?  

I assume they simply don't know what they are talking about and or haven't been following EQN.

Anyone that has been following the game should know that both games share devs and assets, obviously some aren't getting it.

Beyond some of the non-fantasy items, everything else directly relates to EQN. Damn SOE for spending time making Scifi clothing! You've pushed EQN back another year!

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7677

8/18/14 2:38:43 AM#34
Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by bcbully

Dave is as bad as Smedly. Smedly gives the grand false vision, and Dave's lying ass sells it. I can't believe anything coming out this division unless I can see it being played. I can't believe how much this past year of EQN "development" has soured me on SOE and even more so this Everquest team. 

I'm sorry OP. I was excited about new info too. I saw the way they just change up and edit out though. It means nothing.

Two questions.

Do you blindly believe what other devs say without showing proof?

Why are you following a game that is far from release if you don't believe what they are saying? 

 

1. I wouldn't call it blindly, but tend to believe what they tell me about their product until I see otherwise. I think that is why this one really burned me.

 

2. I was/am following it solely off the strength of Planetside 2 and it's development process, the path it took. 

  Allein

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/13
Posts: 1132

8/18/14 3:12:18 AM#35
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by bcbully

Dave is as bad as Smedly. Smedly gives the grand false vision, and Dave's lying ass sells it. I can't believe anything coming out this division unless I can see it being played. I can't believe how much this past year of EQN "development" has soured me on SOE and even more so this Everquest team. 

I'm sorry OP. I was excited about new info too. I saw the way they just change up and edit out though. It means nothing.

Two questions.

Do you blindly believe what other devs say without showing proof?

Why are you following a game that is far from release if you don't believe what they are saying? 

1. I wouldn't call it blindly, but tend to believe what they tell me about their product until I see otherwise. I think that is why this one really burned me.

2. I was/am following it solely off the strength of Planetside 2 and it's development process, the path it took. 

Ah, thanks, just curious. Seems many have really bad histories with SOE and can't let it go and are as blinded by anger as some of us are blinded by hope.

For me, SOE isn't perfect, but honestly I care more about the present and the future. They've handled Landmark very well in my book and EQN hopefully follows. 

What they are doing has never been done before that I know of. Including PS2. The entire approach to design and community involvement is new for this type of game and I'm sorry that so many are missing out because of past issues or lack of faith.

To each their own, but my advice for anyone that doesn't believe or what not, pay as little attention as possible until it at least goes into Alpha/Beta. Anything beforehand is going to be lacking.

I think we have become spoiled with companies releasing details so early. Before it was a few in closed beta, more in open, then release. There wasn't this huge push, years in advance or through the entire design process. Early access and smaller games started it and now big names are jumping on.

Before people would complain about Betas being full of bugs, now people are complaining that concepts aren't completed or basic features haven't been shown off yet.

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3561

8/18/14 5:17:17 AM#36
Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by bcbully

Dave is as bad as Smedly. Smedly gives the grand false vision, and Dave's lying ass sells it. I can't believe anything coming out this division unless I can see it being played. I can't believe how much this past year of EQN "development" has soured me on SOE and even more so this Everquest team. 

I'm sorry OP. I was excited about new info too. I saw the way they just change up and edit out though. It means nothing.

Two questions.

Do you blindly believe what other devs say without showing proof?

Why are you following a game that is far from release if you don't believe what they are saying? 

1. I wouldn't call it blindly, but tend to believe what they tell me about their product until I see otherwise. I think that is why this one really burned me.

2. I was/am following it solely off the strength of Planetside 2 and it's development process, the path it took. 

Ah, thanks, just curious. Seems many have really bad histories with SOE and can't let it go and are as blinded by anger as some of us are blinded by hope.

For me, SOE isn't perfect, but honestly I care more about the present and the future. They've handled Landmark very well in my book and EQN hopefully follows. 

What they are doing has never been done before that I know of. Including PS2. The entire approach to design and community involvement is new for this type of game and I'm sorry that so many are missing out because of past issues or lack of faith.

To each their own, but my advice for anyone that doesn't believe or what not, pay as little attention as possible until it at least goes into Alpha/Beta. Anything beforehand is going to be lacking.

I think we have become spoiled with companies releasing details so early. Before it was a few in closed beta, more in open, then release. There wasn't this huge push, years in advance or through the entire design process. Early access and smaller games started it and now big names are jumping on.

Before people would complain about Betas being full of bugs, now people are complaining that concepts aren't completed or basic features haven't been shown off yet.

Allein..

     There is nothing wrong with people being pessimistic and guarded..  Life experiences has taught us that..  It doesn't matter if we are talking about a computer game or investment banking..  Life teaches us very fast that being gullible and naive will leave you vulnerable and open to be taken advantage of..  It's a dog eat dog world out there, especially in the corporate setting where peoples paychecks and livings are reliant upon consumer confidence and hope.. 

     Now when it comes to SOE and gaming..  Some of us remember quite well who it was that SOLD an expansion, knowing damn well, NGE was already in the pipe and coming..  Talk about pure greed and BS..  SOE owns that reputation.. I know many that were pissed to buy the expansion, only for it to useless in a short time when NGE rolled out..  As for gaming in general, most of us heard all the hype about Bioware's 4th pillar..  A revolutionary change in MMO'ing as we know it, as we were told to believe by everyone in the pipe, including all the gaming website news dot coms..  GW2 was suppose to be a game changer as well.. 

     Hyping, believe and hoping for the 2nd coming of a water walking deity is ok if that is what you want..  However, let others believe what they want as well..  Just because someone tells me "I love you" doesn't mean they really do, or that it will last..  This reminds me of one of Jimmy Buffet's song, "A permanent reminder of a temporary feeling".. 

  Burdoc101

Novice Member

Joined: 9/29/12
Posts: 280

 
OP  8/18/14 9:31:29 AM#37
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by Burdoc101
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by DMKano

 

Yeah a shit ton of work that Landmark currently doesn't even touch.

 

You list a lot of things and assume they haven't already been working on these things for a long time now.  Every game dev knows tool creation and engine development is what takes the most time when creating a game.  Nothing you stated suggests they need more than year to finish up.  Especially for a large company like SOE that has a huge amount of money and resources at their disposal.  

 But they are creating two separate games; two separate MMO titles. So, I can only assume that both will take longer, because of manpower being split up.  I will say again that both are using the same/similar assets and that will be extremely useful to speed up production with Next once Landmark is finished.

Why do you assume that they "split up manpower"?  SOE is a large company with good financial backing.  More than likely they have 2 full teams working on both games at the same time and on top of this are sharing the same engine and a host of assets between each other, which would mean they could make 2 games in less time than it takes 2 different companies to make 2 separate games of comparable size and scope.

Mmm, thats a fair point I didn't consider. 

  azarhal

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/06/09
Posts: 589

8/18/14 11:27:24 AM#38
Originally posted by Kyleran
Is Landmark even 60% complete yet?

It's missing: combat (until next week), AI/Scripting functionality (soon), moving mobs (soon).

The rest is just iterations on already existing system: crafting 2.0, guild 2.0, cave 2.0, islands 2.0, more biomes, new character creator/system, combat 2.0, etc.

Some of these are probably done in their dev systems and has been for a while. They are not in the game yet, because stuff like caves,  islands 2.0 and new character system would require a wipe and they want to limit how many of those they do. They are probably going to wait for all the systems that require a wipe to reach level 2.0 before doing it. 

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3712

8/18/14 2:04:18 PM#39
Originally posted by Burdoc101
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by Burdoc101
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by DMKano

 

Yeah a shit ton of work that Landmark currently doesn't even touch.

 

You list a lot of things and assume they haven't already been working on these things for a long time now.  Every game dev knows tool creation and engine development is what takes the most time when creating a game.  Nothing you stated suggests they need more than year to finish up.  Especially for a large company like SOE that has a huge amount of money and resources at their disposal.  

 But they are creating two separate games; two separate MMO titles. So, I can only assume that both will take longer, because of manpower being split up.  I will say again that both are using the same/similar assets and that will be extremely useful to speed up production with Next once Landmark is finished.

Why do you assume that they "split up manpower"?  SOE is a large company with good financial backing.  More than likely they have 2 full teams working on both games at the same time and on top of this are sharing the same engine and a host of assets between each other, which would mean they could make 2 games in less time than it takes 2 different companies to make 2 separate games of comparable size and scope.

Mmm, thats a fair point I didn't consider. 

They did split up the man power but not really. Was 1 team working on EQN and then they added Landmark and the team working on EQN also started working on Landmark. As was stated by EQ insider Tenma, the dev team said that unless its a tool to make EQN its on the back burner for Landmark. If its a system thats going into EQN then they will add it to Landmark. So the combat system in Landmark is the backbone of EQN combat system so it was added. Water and day night cycles are the same in both games so they got added to Landmark. As started by Tenma, Landmark will get more of its own toys when EQN is done. 

So the content in Landmark helps us know where EQN is by what toys it currently has.

  june32nd

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/19/08
Posts: 128

Ever genre of game is buy to play, why aren't MMORPGs?

8/18/14 2:18:14 PM#40
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by Nitth

 


Originally posted by DMKano
Without Landmark there is no EQNext - SoE has been clear about this from the start.

 

SoE needs players to build assets for EQNext because that was their plan for Landmark.

Get the tools out to the community, have style guidelines set (example Dark Elf city) and let players design it according to SoE guidelines.

 

However that line about "EQNext has been in front of you the entire time in form of Landmark" was also followed later with "We've been really busy with Landmark" - which means 90% of their EQNext Dev was all focused on Landmark.

So for the last year its all been mostly Landmark work - EQNext dev was minimal at best and it showed - dark elves and couple of classes thrown together in super rough state for the sake of SoE Live - shown in a video, not even playable.

So again they've been working on Landmark as that is the building tool for EQNext.

Actual work of EQNext *in my opinion* was minimal at best - I am not buying the 60% done line for one second.

That to me sounds like pure damage control.

Again all of this is 100% my opinion.


 

I think you over estimate how much gap there is between Landmark and EQN.

Whats landmark? its an eqn without the "Scripted" content, butterfly effect ai and minor systems.

Landmark is the bulk of EQN.

 

Oh man - no, EQNext is planned to have systems that currently do not exist in Landmark period.

 

NPCs tied into Storybricks - HUGE part of EQnext and pretty major undertaking.

Classes finished with all skill systems, animations, effects, sounds, voices.

NPCs finished with animations, effects/sounds

Spawn/pathing systems for NPCs - will have to tie into Storybricks as well

Itemization for the entire game - massive undertaking from assets to graphics for each class

Lore, stories, voiceovers (to whatever extent small or big) have to be done 

Dynamic event systems - yeah massive undertaking

Class balancing 

PvP skill balancing

Dungeon creation and placement within Voxels worlds

How about scalability of max number of players per location in the world with destructible environment? What happens 200 players all start blowing stuff up at the same time?

Client / Server performance tuning and optimization

Console support (PS4)

And that's is just the tip of the iceberg

 

Yeah a shit ton of work that Landmark currently doesn't even touch.

 

I didn't know we had game developers and programmers here in the mmorpg.com forums. Amazing that you seem to know exactly what needs to be done and in some cases know just how much work it'll actually be. Truly amazing. 

 

My point here is that, a lot of people/players make claims along the lines of your post. In fact some would even go as far as to speak as if they could do it better or how it should be done with little to no actually game development experience or knowledge of game development theory. if you aren't on the dev team or actually work for the company how could you make such a bold claim of this is what they need to do, and this is how long and how it's a "massive under-taking."  You can't say for certain. I've read and will dig up the numerous articles that actually make it borderline confusing about EQN and Landmark and how they are going to be so similar that it almost seems like 2 MMOs. For the longest time I actually thought Sony had to balls to put out Landmark and after it was all done, re-brand it as EQN.

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