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General Gaming  » Kickstarter Exposed ?

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139 posts found
  TankYou88

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/25/14
Posts: 332

7/20/14 12:45:52 PM#21
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by ryvendark
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by allday88

I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

 

 

There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.

There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.

Shark tank invests so regardless of the kickstarter or not they are not giving them money like kickstarter did. When a kickstarter company starts to offer profit sharing with its backers, then they'll be on the same ground as shark tank ( kind of )

And one example of the state filing a lawsuit really doesn't open the doors wide on making sure a kickstater always delivers. If a kickstarter could show they actually used that money on the game but just ran out of funding there is nothing anyone could do to them in a court. The kickstarter that is getting sued produced nothing and has no evidence that they even worked on their project.

Isnt it the exact same thing? I invest $20, I either get a return on my investment for a $50-60 game, or the game doesnt produce anything and you lose out on your investment.

How is that different from investing in a company? Someone invests in a company and a a deal is made, if the company does well they get about a 20-30% return on your investment. If the company tanks you get nothing.

So with kickstarter you get a 200-300% return on your investment,  investing in a company you get a 20-30% return.

Correct me if I am wrong, but kickstarter is not an investment.  You pay money towards a game that may or may not materialise, and if it does may or may not match (the usually over-stated) description.  

An investment is a risk with the possibility of huge rewards.  Kickstarter is a risk WITHOUT the possibility of huge rewards.  

I think 200-300% return on your investment is a huge reward. That is considered a great investment among any investor.

What are you referring to?  If you are referring to an arbitrary price that a developer attaches to a game, that is not a return on an investment.  A return on an investment is taking a share of the profits made.  

Yes. The share of the profit is the game created, its the share you agreed on before hand like any investment.

No it is not.  You effectively by an unfinished game at a knock down price.  You do not know if the game will or will not ever be finished, and if it is you do not know what that finished product will be.  You do not buy a share in the company and the associated rewards should it prove successful.  

So you only get something if the company does well. Sounds like an investment to me.

I am not going to explain it again.  It is not an investment, just accept it and move on.  I even think you know you are wrong on this one.  

You keep explaining how its an investment...

  FeralLoki

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/23/08
Posts: 64

7/20/14 12:50:52 PM#22
I would hunt those people down and i would take my money back, they can steal from me, then i can steal from them. :)
  PioneerStew

Elite Member

Joined: 9/24/11
Posts: 642

7/20/14 12:56:08 PM#23
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by ryvendark
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by allday88

I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

 

 

There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.

There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.

Shark tank invests so regardless of the kickstarter or not they are not giving them money like kickstarter did. When a kickstarter company starts to offer profit sharing with its backers, then they'll be on the same ground as shark tank ( kind of )

And one example of the state filing a lawsuit really doesn't open the doors wide on making sure a kickstater always delivers. If a kickstarter could show they actually used that money on the game but just ran out of funding there is nothing anyone could do to them in a court. The kickstarter that is getting sued produced nothing and has no evidence that they even worked on their project.

Isnt it the exact same thing? I invest $20, I either get a return on my investment for a $50-60 game, or the game doesnt produce anything and you lose out on your investment.

How is that different from investing in a company? Someone invests in a company and a a deal is made, if the company does well they get about a 20-30% return on your investment. If the company tanks you get nothing.

So with kickstarter you get a 200-300% return on your investment,  investing in a company you get a 20-30% return.

Correct me if I am wrong, but kickstarter is not an investment.  You pay money towards a game that may or may not materialise, and if it does may or may not match (the usually over-stated) description.  

An investment is a risk with the possibility of huge rewards.  Kickstarter is a risk WITHOUT the possibility of huge rewards.  

I think 200-300% return on your investment is a huge reward. That is considered a great investment among any investor.

What are you referring to?  If you are referring to an arbitrary price that a developer attaches to a game, that is not a return on an investment.  A return on an investment is taking a share of the profits made.  

Yes. The share of the profit is the game created, its the share you agreed on before hand like any investment.

No it is not.  You effectively by an unfinished game at a knock down price.  You do not know if the game will or will not ever be finished, and if it is you do not know what that finished product will be.  You do not buy a share in the company and the associated rewards should it prove successful.  

So you only get something if the company does well. Sounds like an investment to me.

I am not going to explain it again.  It is not an investment, just accept it and move on.  I even think you know you are wrong on this one.  

You keep explaining how its an investment...

No, I keep explaining how it is the purchase of an unfinished product.  Unless you think that buying a loaf of bread is an investment in a supermarket.  The only difference in that example being that you get a loaf of bread and not the promise of a loaf of bread from a "baker".  

  erictlewis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3058

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

7/20/14 1:02:58 PM#24

I got into the great scam star citizen. I will call it a scam, I thought it was going to be a game it has turned out hey you buy yet another ship. What we have a a very flawed alfa.  What it actually is hey you buy more ships.  That is all I see, more and more ships.  And a dogfight simulator that is junk. 

I don't think we will ever see a game in the near future. I though it was going to take them 3 years. I think more like 10 at this pace.

 

  TankYou88

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/25/14
Posts: 332

7/20/14 1:03:01 PM#25
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by ryvendark
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by allday88

I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

 

 

There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.

There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.

Shark tank invests so regardless of the kickstarter or not they are not giving them money like kickstarter did. When a kickstarter company starts to offer profit sharing with its backers, then they'll be on the same ground as shark tank ( kind of )

And one example of the state filing a lawsuit really doesn't open the doors wide on making sure a kickstater always delivers. If a kickstarter could show they actually used that money on the game but just ran out of funding there is nothing anyone could do to them in a court. The kickstarter that is getting sued produced nothing and has no evidence that they even worked on their project.

Isnt it the exact same thing? I invest $20, I either get a return on my investment for a $50-60 game, or the game doesnt produce anything and you lose out on your investment.

How is that different from investing in a company? Someone invests in a company and a a deal is made, if the company does well they get about a 20-30% return on your investment. If the company tanks you get nothing.

So with kickstarter you get a 200-300% return on your investment,  investing in a company you get a 20-30% return.

Correct me if I am wrong, but kickstarter is not an investment.  You pay money towards a game that may or may not materialise, and if it does may or may not match (the usually over-stated) description.  

An investment is a risk with the possibility of huge rewards.  Kickstarter is a risk WITHOUT the possibility of huge rewards.  

I think 200-300% return on your investment is a huge reward. That is considered a great investment among any investor.

What are you referring to?  If you are referring to an arbitrary price that a developer attaches to a game, that is not a return on an investment.  A return on an investment is taking a share of the profits made.  

Yes. The share of the profit is the game created, its the share you agreed on before hand like any investment.

No it is not.  You effectively by an unfinished game at a knock down price.  You do not know if the game will or will not ever be finished, and if it is you do not know what that finished product will be.  You do not buy a share in the company and the associated rewards should it prove successful.  

So you only get something if the company does well. Sounds like an investment to me.

I am not going to explain it again.  It is not an investment, just accept it and move on.  I even think you know you are wrong on this one.  

You keep explaining how its an investment...

No, I keep explaining how it is the purchase of an unfinished product.  Unless you think that buying a loaf of bread is an investment in a supermarket.  The only difference in that example being that you get a loaf of bread and not the promise of a loaf of bread from a "baker".  

If im purchasing an unfinished game then why do people not get anything until its finished, if its finished? 

  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 512

7/20/14 1:07:58 PM#26
Originally posted by erictlewis

I got into the great scam star citizen. I will call it a scam, I thought it was going to be a game it has turned out hey you buy yet another ship. What we have a a very flawed alfa.  What it actually is hey you buy more ships.  That is all I see, more and more ships.  And a dogfight simulator that is junk. 

I don't think we will ever see a game in the near future. I though it was going to take them 3 years. I think more like 10 at this pace.

 

You were naive and thought you would get a quick return, you are in for a long trip.I don't recall any ETA on a released game.

  PioneerStew

Elite Member

Joined: 9/24/11
Posts: 642

7/20/14 1:12:58 PM#27
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by ryvendark
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by allday88

I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

 

 

There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.

There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.

Shark tank invests so regardless of the kickstarter or not they are not giving them money like kickstarter did. When a kickstarter company starts to offer profit sharing with its backers, then they'll be on the same ground as shark tank ( kind of )

And one example of the state filing a lawsuit really doesn't open the doors wide on making sure a kickstater always delivers. If a kickstarter could show they actually used that money on the game but just ran out of funding there is nothing anyone could do to them in a court. The kickstarter that is getting sued produced nothing and has no evidence that they even worked on their project.

Isnt it the exact same thing? I invest $20, I either get a return on my investment for a $50-60 game, or the game doesnt produce anything and you lose out on your investment.

How is that different from investing in a company? Someone invests in a company and a a deal is made, if the company does well they get about a 20-30% return on your investment. If the company tanks you get nothing.

So with kickstarter you get a 200-300% return on your investment,  investing in a company you get a 20-30% return.

Correct me if I am wrong, but kickstarter is not an investment.  You pay money towards a game that may or may not materialise, and if it does may or may not match (the usually over-stated) description.  

An investment is a risk with the possibility of huge rewards.  Kickstarter is a risk WITHOUT the possibility of huge rewards.  

I think 200-300% return on your investment is a huge reward. That is considered a great investment among any investor.

What are you referring to?  If you are referring to an arbitrary price that a developer attaches to a game, that is not a return on an investment.  A return on an investment is taking a share of the profits made.  

Yes. The share of the profit is the game created, its the share you agreed on before hand like any investment.

No it is not.  You effectively by an unfinished game at a knock down price.  You do not know if the game will or will not ever be finished, and if it is you do not know what that finished product will be.  You do not buy a share in the company and the associated rewards should it prove successful.  

So you only get something if the company does well. Sounds like an investment to me.

I am not going to explain it again.  It is not an investment, just accept it and move on.  I even think you know you are wrong on this one.  

You keep explaining how its an investment...

No, I keep explaining how it is the purchase of an unfinished product.  Unless you think that buying a loaf of bread is an investment in a supermarket.  The only difference in that example being that you get a loaf of bread and not the promise of a loaf of bread from a "baker".  

If im purchasing an unfinished game then why do people not get anything until its finished, if its finished? 

what? 

  kellian1

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/06
Posts: 229

7/20/14 1:14:47 PM#28

I don't know I've been pretty happy with what I've backed on kickstarter. Wasteland 2, Shroud of the Avatar, Project Eternity to name a few. 

I think its important to know the people you are backing and try to get as much information as possible as to how they are setting up to be a success. Backing people with at least some history and organizational know how. This isn't a kickstarter problem, the platform has been really good in bringing some things to market (wasteland 2 for example) that otherwise would never have been made. Just be sure you know who and what you are backing before you do it. 

  VooDoo_Papa

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/21/10
Posts: 851

7/20/14 1:20:58 PM#29
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by ryvendark
Originally posted by TankYou88
Originally posted by allday88

I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

 

 

There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.

There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.

Shark tank invests so regardless of the kickstarter or not they are not giving them money like kickstarter did. When a kickstarter company starts to offer profit sharing with its backers, then they'll be on the same ground as shark tank ( kind of )

And one example of the state filing a lawsuit really doesn't open the doors wide on making sure a kickstater always delivers. If a kickstarter could show they actually used that money on the game but just ran out of funding there is nothing anyone could do to them in a court. The kickstarter that is getting sued produced nothing and has no evidence that they even worked on their project.

Isnt it the exact same thing? I invest $20, I either get a return on my investment for a $50-60 game, or the game doesnt produce anything and you lose out on your investment.

How is that different from investing in a company? Someone invests in a company and a a deal is made, if the company does well they get about a 20-30% return on your investment. If the company tanks you get nothing.

So with kickstarter you get a 200-300% return on your investment,  investing in a company you get a 20-30% return.

Correct me if I am wrong, but kickstarter is not an investment.  You pay money towards a game that may or may not materialise, and if it does may or may not match (the usually over-stated) description.  

An investment is a risk with the possibility of huge rewards.  Kickstarter is a risk WITHOUT the possibility of huge rewards.  

I think 200-300% return on your investment is a huge reward. That is considered a great investment among any investor.

What are you referring to?  If you are referring to an arbitrary price that a developer attaches to a game, that is not a return on an investment.  A return on an investment is taking a share of the profits made.  

Yes. The share of the profit is the game created, its the share you agreed on before hand like any investment.

No it is not.  You effectively by an unfinished game at a knock down price.  You do not know if the game will or will not ever be finished, and if it is you do not know what that finished product will be.  You do not buy a share in the company and the associated rewards should it prove successful.  

So you only get something if the company does well. Sounds like an investment to me.

I am not going to explain it again.  It is not an investment, just accept it and move on.  I even think you know you are wrong on this one.  

You keep explaining how its an investment...

No, I keep explaining how it is the purchase of an unfinished product.  Unless you think that buying a loaf of bread is an investment in a supermarket.  The only difference in that example being that you get a loaf of bread and not the promise of a loaf of bread from a "baker".  

If im purchasing an unfinished game then why do people not get anything until its finished, if its finished? 

you don't like being wrong, do you

  forcelima

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/16/06
Posts: 89

7/20/14 1:21:59 PM#30

quote]Originally posted by erictlewis
I got into the great scam star citizen. I will call it a scam, I thought it was going to be a game it has turned out hey you buy yet another ship. What we have a a very flawed alfa.  What it actually is hey you buy more ships.  That is all I see, more and more ships.  And a dogfight simulator that is junk. 

I don't think we will ever see a game in the near future. I though it was going to take them 3 years. I think more like 10 at this pace.

 [/quote]

Ah star citizen the sci fi buy more ship simulator. They are bringing you a simulator and have delivered the worlds first and most expensive buy more ships simulator. That is the game so stop complaining.

Group content is a joke. You either get Leroy Jenkins Cousins, or Nerd Rage King and his Knights of the Spread Sheets. -CyborWolfTK

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17198

7/20/14 1:29:38 PM#31

Well, I've kickstarted three things.

Two have come to fruition and the other is pending.

I have no problems with the two that were successful, one being a game and one being for a movie.

My thought is try to be smart and try to lower expectations to something "reasonable".

I've seen kickstarter programs (especially for games) that looked amazing but still didn't invest precisely because they just seemed like technical presentations.

 

  greenreen

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1444

7/20/14 2:22:49 PM#32

http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/2b4bzm/yogventures_final_kickstarter_update/

After all the backers had a chance to fulfill their payments, and all the funds were collected out of the $567,665 that was pledged, roughly $415,000 of that was actually transferred after the Kickstarter fees and Amazon fees had been collected. We met with the Yogscast when the kickstarter ended and everyone agreed that the entire net should be used to create the game as much as humanly possible. So we made a plan as such.

  • $35,000.00 Concept Art / Sky boxes / Environment Textures (Senior matte painter / concept artist from PDI Dreamworks)
  • $35,000.00 Concept Art / Character Designs / UI Design (Senior Character Designer Treyarch)
  • $35,000.00 Modeling (Senior Modeler from Dreamworks)
  • $35,000.00 Textures / Surfacing / Shader development (Senior Surface Artist from Dreamworks)
  • $35,000.00 Animation (Senior Animator from Dreamworks)
  • $35,000.00 Programming / Unity Development (Myself Unity Developer)
  • $15,000.00 Unity Developer part time / intern
  • $100,000.00 Programming / Application Architecture / Back-end Server Code / Voxel Engine (TBD, we were courting several programmers with lots of game experience over the course of the Kickstarter)
  • $3500.00 Legal Fees Contracts
  • $1500.00 Accountant Fees
  • $15000.00 Hardware (PC computers)
  • $5000.00 Software Licenses
  • $15,000.00 Escrow for expenses related to development like buying Unity Assets etc.
  • $50,000.00 Physical Rewards creation and Shipping

Unfortunately, right off the bat we had one major incident that happened that we could not fix. Our good friend and matte painter really terrific artist that created most of the concept art with environments on the Kickstarter page, he left PDI to work at LucasArts. LucasArts wouldn't give him a carve out in his contract to work on Yogventures so he couldn't work on the project any longer.

This is a very good example of how my inexperience caused some problems in the development. Because we had worked out a contract that guaranteed each of the principal artists a $35,000 lump sum payment, and we didn't make any clear clause on how and why someone could legally stop working on the project, The artist in question got paid, worked for about 2 weeks and then stopped working on the project. We had no way to force that person to pay back any of the funds and it was a bitter lesson to learn. Always get every possible scenario in writing or you will have no legal recourse.

When Lewis found out about the artist incident he was rightly confused and upset, as a result he lost faith right away in my ability to run the company from a business standpoint and basically required that all the rest of the Kickstarter money that hadn't been spent be transferred to them right away.

In the end we negotiated that to $150,000 would be transferred to the Yogscast with the understanding that they would use that money exclusively to create and ship all the physical rewards, AND they would help hire the main programmer that we still didn't have on the project.

... snip

 

 

I think Yogscast has much more responsibility in this than they act like and they are being nudges at the end of the day. After all that Kickstarter read as their dream and now all of a sudden it was someone else's. Having any sort of ability to recover monies shows that you held some leadership role. Now, if they were too busy to watch the progress and though that they could get funds for free then get someone else to do the project for free to them - lesson learned. Stand up at least and take responsibility for something you had your name allllllllllllll over and now you want to distance from because it didn't work on it's own in a favorable way for you doing nothing but reaping rewards.

I used to be a Yogscast fan but with this and their YogDiscovery system, I have no reason to hold them in any high regard any longer. Some of them may be funny but so are people in prison. I don't associate with them either. My days of watching Yogscast are done because their integrity is being overshadowed by money. When they were just two goofs it seemed earnest, now they are a production company with whizzy intros and new fonts for each video and by golly those videos get shorter and shorter all the time. The heads are larger than ever and the tropes are repeating. I remember once they shut down comments on YT because they didn't like them... took that back though didn't they. They don't care that they get free bandwidth from YT and still try to talk people into going to their site to comment - why - they aren't paying for video hosting so someone still has to get the video on YT. I wouldn't quite call them sell outs in the true sense but I sure wouldn't trust them to be honest any longer. Maybe they've been purchased for longer than I've noticed but I notice now with these two incidents.

 

 

  3-4thElf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/03/12
Posts: 492

7/20/14 2:27:28 PM#33
Originally posted by vgamer
Originally posted by allday88

I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

 

 

I used to view kickstarter like that but lately I think kickstarter is the best thing that has every happened since sliced bread. Essentially, it is a way of taking money from those who are obviously going to squander it anyway and put it into the hands of more capable persons. So resources won't go to waste. Win/Win I'd say.

Pretty much.

I've gave to quite a few Kickstarters and enjoyed it. Basically my thought is..

"Is this something I'd buy? How much would I pay for it? Do I get one if it's successful?" 

It's great for artists and people making actual things. It's kind of dumb if you're wanting to fancy yourself an investor. There's better ways to move those funds.

a yo ho ho

  Brabbit1987

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 675

7/22/14 2:37:08 AM#34

When you give money to a company through kickstarter, you are essentially giving them money in hopes they complete the project. You like the idea, and you wish that idea would be realized.

If you gave money, 100% expecting to get something back, than frankly ... you are pretty ... *coughs* ...( Use your imagination as many words can fit here)

 

As for the whole oculus rift business. There is nothing wrong with what they did. Matter of fact, how else did you expect them to fund the project? You honestly think what they made from kickstarter was enough? Did you not read what the kickstarter was for? It was to get the dev kit in the hands of developers. The only people who did wrong are the ones complaining because they failed to READ and COMPREHEND. It was pretty obvious they where going to need more funding from another company. People are just pissed because it's facebook lol. They are butt hurt for pretty much no reason at all.

I personally don't even understand why so many people hate facebook. Pretty stupid if you ask me.

 

 

Anyway, kickstarter itself isn't a scam .. but it CAN be used as a scam. You jsut need to learn to read and really think about what you are putting money into. If it sounds to good to be true ... than it probably is. Solar *coughs* panel FREAKING *coughs* roadways. People really don't think these things through. They hear something cool and blindly throw money at it.

 

Edit: Oh and I know that was indiegogo .. It's still the same kind of website.

  Neobloodline3d

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/16/14
Posts: 55

7/22/14 2:51:37 AM#35
Originally posted by allday88

I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.  You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get?  NOTHING!  The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment.  Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO.  Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment?  Which one would do that?  Let me tell you none.  

 

 

Kickstarter is the same thing as games sold when their developers have already lined up DLC's to release 2 weeks later.  They want you to pay for something before the development is complete so that the money doesn't have to come from their bank account or from a loan that they needed.  Essentially you are loaning them money with 0% interest and if they default on the loan the only person paying for it is you.  I'd sooner carve out my left eyeball with a butterknife than either pay for a game I know is DLC bound or submit money to kickstarter.  The entire concept of both is acid to smart people.

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4138

7/22/14 2:55:10 AM#36

The games that I have backed on kickstarter and have released are some of the best I have played in a very long time..

Currently playing Divinity: Origional Sin and this is one amazing game and so far is the game of the year for me.

Kickstarter is the best thing to happen in the gaming world since steam.. and I look forward to funding even more games. Yes of course do some research into the people making the game i mean one guy claiming he is going to make the best mmorpg in the world but has never worked on a computer game before is just never going to happen..

 

Originally posted by Neobloodline3d
 

Kickstarter is the same thing as games sold when their developers have already lined up DLC's to release 2 weeks later.  They want you to pay for something before the development is complete so that the money doesn't have to come from their bank account or from a loan that they needed.  Essentially you are loaning them money with 0% interest and if they default on the loan the only person paying for it is you.  I'd sooner carve out my left eyeball with a butterknife than either pay for a game I know is DLC bound or submit money to kickstarter.  The entire concept of both is acid to smart people.

That is not how games are made.. you dont jsut take out a loan to make a game.. Normally you need to sell your idea to one of the big publishers who will then fund your game. Problem with that is the big publishers dont want to take any risks with their cash so only back COD clnoes and WOW clones. In the mmo world that is the reason why we have only seen themepark clones since wow was reased no one i putting out anything that is really different from the standard..

 

Kickstarter allows the people making the games to keep control and develop the game into waht they want it to be, so we are now getting games that are totally different to what we have been seeing over the last few years and you know what they are turning out to be bloody good games as well.

Just look at the upcoming mmorpg The Repopulation it looks amazing and I cant wait to play it but it never would have happened if it was not for kickstarter.

Originally posted by PioneerStew

An investment is a risk with the possibility of huge rewards.  Kickstarter is a risk WITHOUT the possibility of huge rewards.  

I dont agree I am very much enjoying Divinity: Original Sin that is one huge reward for backing the kickstarter for that.

 

Originally posted by Crusades
Has kickstarter ever taken someone seeking funding to court? Masses taking them to court is a failure. In the meantime they live extravagant lives and squander your money and the just walk away from it all when shit hits the fan. Post a 5 minute progress video and then grab a beer and head back out to the beach partying it up.

 

You think the people making games with the kickstarter funds are living an extravagant life style ? LOL sure sitting on the beach all day long then jump in their ferrari and drive home.. wow just wow..

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Deddmeat

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 315

Not sure how I got K.A.E.S last PvP was CoD and UO lol

7/22/14 7:11:04 AM#37

You pay for a new mmo .. You invest money and time in that, they can shut down the servers anytime or totally remake the game .. SWG

Either way you are investing into a game, one you get time to play and trust it will keep running, the other you trust they will keep working on it and you get a good return on whatever you gave.

Basically it's risk vs reward

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11490

7/22/14 8:03:54 AM#38
Originally posted by allday88

  Mr. Brad took 45k from kickstart after 3 months that equals about $180k/yr job.  I bet he's living nicely.

Mr Brad got zero funds from a failed kickstarter - Brad raised those funds at his own pantheon site

 

I'm a kickstarter fan but i agree this kickstarter was horribly mismanaged

when a lead artist walks away with 35k without finishing expected work

  CrazKanuk

Elite Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 1026

7/22/14 8:03:55 AM#39

Ok, first of all, I love the scam talk, I really do. The majority of the people working on these types of projects can't even support their family on the money gained through Kickstarter, especially when it comes to game development. 

 

Now, for a couple sobering facts for people actually interested in being logical, whether you consider it an investment or not, the number of games funded through Kickstarter which actually shipped, versus those which died is HUGE! If I could get that sort of risk/value proposition on an investment it would be a no-brainer. You can go check yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_game_crowdfunding_projects

 

Now, in the case of Yogcast, they hired on a contractor which was probably their first mistake. Then they paid them upfront. There's another mistake. This is what happens when someone without any experience says, "Hey! Wouldn't it be cool to make a game?!?! We run a popular YouTube channel, therefore we can make a video game. It's EXACTLY the same!" Well, it's not. SURPRISE! 

 

Now, that being said, I believe that they said that physical rewards WERE going to be shipped and, secondly, they will be looking to deliver alternative content (specifically TUG) in place of the failed game. If that's a scam, it's probably the most elaborate, most painful scam in the history of mankind. 

 

Anyway, I'm sorry to rain on the haters, but it's not all death and decay like you'd like to believe. In fact, games through Kickstarter probably deliver at a better rate than those that are funded through a publisher. Most people don't understand the number of projects in development that get s$@tcanned behind closed doors. Shoot, Kickstarter might deliver games at a better rate than publisher games that have been ANNOUNCED!! It's actually quite possible. 

Crazkanuk

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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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  Oberholzer

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/06
Posts: 497

7/22/14 8:32:40 AM#40
Once you get past what people believe is going on with kickstarters and guessing on delivery rates and how people are living or spending your donation money it's really pretty simple. Do whatever research you can. If you feel strongly about it donate and hopefully you have a positive outcome from your donation. There's going to be legit campaigns to back and there's going to be scammers and even some that may fall in between. Pretty much par for the course when humans are involved.
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