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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » I think an MMO that takes place before the great flood would be cool

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77 posts found
  Quesa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 1265

7/10/14 2:18:51 AM#41
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Quesa

Actually, the point was that it's ok and should be more acceptable to state, 'we don't really know' instead of stating fact when fact can't be proved.  There are plenty of things we are certain of, 1 + 1 = 2 and even more things that we have observed and tested hypotheses for.  However, when we start talking about theorhetical sub atomic particles it is not only important but should be completely acceptable that we understand {x} about {y} but can't prove it.  How many times have wee seen studies that state coffee is good for you....wait, bad for you...no wait good for you.  This is just another case of people being too arrogant to say, "it depends" rather than, "see what I proved?".

 

It's not a bad thing to not know something, in fact science is based completely around not knowing the answer to something.  This doesn't have anything to do with a particular scientific philosophy.

Religion is a belief in certain answers to questions the science community can't explicitly prove.  It wasn't that I an agnostic about my religious belief but saying that there is nothing wrong, philosophically, for believing in a religious answer and stating otherwise is arrogance.


It is not arrogance but ignorance, lack of critical thinking and modern withcraft that makes people think that "studies" about coffee proposed in "media" by "experts" has anything to do with science.

It is believe based on not knowing the answer, you do not know that sub atomic particles are known for more than 100 years and for quite a while we are capable to smash and break down sub atomic particles into even smaller pieces.

On the other hand, science is about looking for answers.


People can't "not know" but at the same time they are uncapable to seek the answer and they just take any answer that is socialy acceptable.

Sub atomic was a mistype and my fault, what I meant to say was sub-sub atomic, or quarks and the like.  We know there is something there, mathematically, and we've discovered or 'found' particles like quarks but we still believe there are more.

Stop saying, what I believe you're trying to spell, witchcraft.  Not even sure why you are using that term because it makes little sense.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6924

7/10/14 2:39:16 AM#42


Originally posted by Quesa

Sub atomic was a mistype and my fault, what I meant to say was sub-sub atomic, or quarks and the like.  We know there is something there, mathematically, and we've discovered or 'found' particles like quarks but we still believe there are more.



See, this is what I was talking about...you are not capable to actually seek answers and instead fall to modern witchcraft about coffee...

I even explicitely told you that sub atomic particles are nothing theoretical. Quarks were experimentaly proven in the early 70' last century with electron-nucleon scattering in Stanford accelerator.

Strong and weak interactions is no cloudy math theory. Those things work and are experimentally supported.


No offense meant, you just illustrate well what I was talking about, that is a nature of human kind.

  naami

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/02/14
Posts: 70

7/10/14 2:49:50 AM#43

Sounds really cool. I always enjoyed historical fiction mixed with mythology and wish more games had settings like this. 

By the way I also want to chime in on this great debate here and say that I love my religion and I think that religion is a great asset to humanity for fulfilling our spiritual needs. Hehe.

  Quesa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 1265

7/10/14 2:55:14 AM#44
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Quesa

 

Sub atomic was a mistype and my fault, what I meant to say was sub-sub atomic, or quarks and the like.  We know there is something there, mathematically, and we've discovered or 'found' particles like quarks but we still believe there are more.


 


See, this is what I was talking about... you are not capable to actually seek answers. And I even explicitely told you that sub atomic particles are nothing theoretical.

Quarks were experimentaly proven in the early 70' last century with electron-nucleon scattering in Stanford accelerator.

Congratulations.  Now read the part where I said, "but we still believe there are more".  Thus, I was using quarks as an example of an elementary particle but we still don't know or have experimentally proven the existence of the other theorized particles.  Also, we don't really know much about quarks and are pretty sure they have undiscovered properties.

 

Additionally, I'm not going to or have never implied that I'm capable of seeking such answers but that doesn't mean I can't read articles and understand them at the basic level.  Perhaps you should attempt to read first then reply.

 

edit: make a post and then stick with it or make another reply, this is twice now you've edited your post as I'm replying.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6924

7/10/14 3:38:16 AM#45


Originally posted by Quesa

Also, we don't really know much about quarks and are pretty sure they have undiscovered properties.


Standard particle model is nothing of a theory and far from "don't know really much about"...

Please stop projecting your own ignorance onto others.

  Quesa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 1265

7/10/14 4:04:26 AM#46
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Quesa

 

Also, we don't really know much about quarks and are pretty sure they have undiscovered properties.


 

Standard particle model is nothing of a theory and far from "don't know really much about"...

Please stop projecting your own ignorance onto others.

The theoretical calculation of the Standard Model process, like any theoretical calculation of its kind, is known to be incomplete.  There are some collision behaviors that cannot be totally explained which may mean we "don't know much".  It's too theoretical at this point.

Alas we come to the end of my limited knowledge about the subject and I doubt very seriously that you have any substantial background in physics to say much more.  So if all you're going to do is attempt to drill down this argument to more ridiculousness and insults then I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree.

quick edit: the original point wasn't that we haven't discovered quarks or other elemental particles it's that we don't know everything about them and we're still investigating.  Unfortunately you've cherry picked small sentences in every one of my replies in hopes of something, I'm not even sure anymore.  Suffice it to say, I'm sure we got nowhere, fast.

  WW4BW

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/03/06
Posts: 486

7/10/14 4:42:32 AM#47

Some religious groups have money to spend on making books, documentaries, and dramas.. No reason why they couldnt find the money to make an MMO.. There have been even religous games made, wether by volunteers or paid for.

The US army even made a game (or more, but I am thinking of America's Army). 

Now all of this is usually garbage, poorly written, poorly done. Because the producers agenda and background have nothing to do with making games. 

BTW have you noticed how many Rapture themed shows there are this summer?.. Personally I have only glanced at Falling Skies, since I like Sci Fi a little too much... Too much, since I wouldnt even call it a Sci Fi show, even with the aliens and shit... its a left behind fantasy more than anything else, and also its mostly terrible..

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6924

7/10/14 4:42:36 AM#48


Originally posted by Quesa

The theoretical calculation of the Standard Model process, like any theoretical calculation of its kind, is known to be incomplete.

...except, Standard Model is no theory, is is experimentaly proven. You still seem not to understand that, likely the lack of knowledge on your end.


Your "we do not know everything" argument is a just a heap of logical fallacy - a negative proof, an appeal to ignornace.


You are concerned with what one does not know, but that is a matter of believe.

  punkindonuts

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/16/12
Posts: 7

7/10/14 4:45:07 AM#49

With regards to the idea that the OP had for a new MMO, I have always said that story from a set of book called Saga Of The Pliocene Exiles would make for a fantastic MMO setting. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saga_of_Pliocene_Exile

I think it would pretty much cover everything that the OP listed without going all biblical as some of the characters are loosely based around Celtic religious myths and legends. There is even a great flood in the story where a land bridge is destroyed between Spain and Africa and  the Mediterranean sea is formed.

Sadly I doubt it would ever get made but I can live in hope 

  Quesa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 1265

7/10/14 4:50:20 AM#50
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Quesa

The theoretical calculation of the Standard Model process, like any theoretical calculation of its kind, is known to be incomplete.

 

...except, Standard Model is no theory, is is experimentaly proven. You still seem not to understand that, likely the lack of knowledge on your end.


Your "we do not know everything" argument is a just a heap of logical fallacy - a negative proof, an appeal to ignornace.


You are concerned with what one does not know, but that is a matter of believe.

There is plenty we don't know and despite the postulation that the Standard Model is proven, there is Physics Beyond the Standard Model.  Search that phrase, there is plenty to read regarding the Standard Model.

Maybe both of us are ignorant of the nuances but that doesn't mean you're right and I'm wrong.

 

edit:  Addtionally, you're disingenuously portraying that I'm arguing "we don't know everything" as if I'm making it in general and that, somehow, means my argument could logically be used for everything.  That couldn't be further from the truth, we are specifically (in this context) speaking about elemental particles and I said, "don't know much" about quarks.  Sure, there are things we do know about it but given that there are holes in the Standard Model, wouldn't that mean we could be missing a lot about them?  

If all you're going to do is cherry pick little bits of my argument then spatter your reply with info you garnered off of wikipedia, then how am I the one being ignorant?  Again, I nor you could come close to saying one or the other is wrong and doing so is arrogance.

  Majstatepa

Novice Member

Joined: 7/03/14
Posts: 3

7/10/14 4:54:43 AM#51
This needs to happen 
  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5171

7/10/14 6:34:47 AM#52

To me gameplay >>>>> setting/lore.

So as long as it wasn't a linear themepark with raid/dungeon endgame - but something more open-ended that was player driven (more sandboxy) - I'd give it a whirl regardless of setting.

 

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5219

7/10/14 7:22:30 AM#53
Originally posted by DMKano

To me gameplay >>>>> setting/lore.

So as long as it wasn't a linear themepark with raid/dungeon endgame - but something more open-ended that was player driven (more sandboxy) - I'd give it a whirl regardless of setting.

 

To me lore is a book

setting is backdrop

game world is the game (although one could mean setting to mean this as well)

Correlation does not imply causation

  Apraxis

Elite Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1463

7/10/14 8:39:48 AM#54
[mod edit]

Indeed. and i go one further.. as much as we know now.. and considering Gödel's incompletness theorems every theory and every model will have some holes, or differently said any Unified Theory any Theory of Everything is doomed to fail. Or as Quesa said.. we know only that we never will know everything. Though.. even Gödel's theorems may be proven wrong one time. ;)

 

[mod edit]

  Foobarx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/16/14
Posts: 459

7/10/14 8:54:37 AM#55

[mod edit]

  Cramit845

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/14
Posts: 147

7/10/14 8:56:30 AM#56
I would be up for a game based off of something like this.  I really agree with the idea of making a historically accurate Vikings MMO like the Vikings show on History Channel.  Personally I would be fine with any other religion as the theme as well, doesn't really bother me one way or the other.

1.

  Boldyn

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/04
Posts: 261

7/10/14 9:00:28 AM#57

Yaaaay..

 

Then we can say that Everything that goes well for us is thanks to the game.

 

And when something fails or goes horribly bad, it may look like we are to blame for being pathetic excuses of humans, but it's just the game working in mysterious ways!

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1133

7/10/14 9:06:14 AM#58

What do you propose would be available for the design of this game before this alleged natural disaster? What do you offer as the natural state of the world before said hypothetical catastrophe?

 

  ElRenmazuo

Elite Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4110

 
OP  7/10/14 11:17:12 AM#59
Originally posted by Maelwydd

What do you propose would be available for the design of this game before this alleged natural disaster? What do you offer as the natural state of the world before said hypothetical catastrophe?

 

The game would take place hundreds of years before the flood even happens in a post-apocalyptic/pseudo-fantasy setting

Are you asking me what the explanation is for characters respawning after death?  Well off the top of my head lets say the fallen angels thought mankind science and technology and to harness the power of their own spirit (similar to harnessing your Chi like martial artists but on a much greater level).  And lets say mankind created devices called soul-harvesters from what what they learned from the fallen angels.  The devices are also remnants from civilizations long ago and are spread through out the world and humans with a strong level of spirit can attune them selves to these.

These types of technology were the humans attempt to become as powerful as the angels and humanity became too corrupted as they were not ready for such things like handing a 5 year old with a gun.  There were human against human conflict, human against angel conflicts, and angel against angel conflicts and there were also the Nephilim that basically got cought up between those conflicts. They were created by the angels to serve as servants and humans started using them as slaves.  But small groups of them went into an exodus to escape and live away from them while the ones who didnt make it died off in the violence of humanity and angels.  In the games present time they are scattered and rare to find.  Now fallen angels have lost much of their power due to extended time away from grace, but they are still very formidable and many of them were killed during those conflicts.

In the games present time some of those fallen angels still want to control humanity and they saw this as a great time to do it because humanity has become desperate and starving with no real civilizations or the technology they once had.  So these fallen angels started posing as false Gods to them offering salvation and because they gained spiritual power from the humans worshiping them.

But some fallen angels who are very few in numbers want to repent for what they did to the world and learned the error of their ways so they want to stop those false gods but need the help of humans. But they saw that much of humanity has lost their spiritual power and are no match for the false gods and the abominations that inhabit the wasted earth.  So they re-activate the soul harvesters which still contained many souls of humans from the past, so they finally free them.  You the player emerge from these and are very weak at first but through out your journeys will gain your former strength back.

 

  loulaki

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/20/11
Posts: 810

7/12/14 6:31:05 PM#60

this OP sounds like the book sellers on late night TVshows here in my country which talk under earth races (Nephilim), the lost ancient Greek Atlantis, pure fascism mixed with stupidity and totally inaccuracy !

 

usually we watch these shows stoned and talk about the starfleets which are coming from the Orion to save us lol !

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