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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » "Vet Content is Too Hard" - Upcoming changes

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105 posts found
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3876

7/07/14 9:07:21 AM#81

I think this thread went through a time warp. You guys are seriously discussing whether solo content should exist in MMOs? This bus didn't just leave the station... it's already at the destination. It got there about 10 years ago.

 

And once again... there is a difference between good hard gameplay and content that has obviously been designed for solo play (shit... a lot of this vet content tells you it's clearly "solo" only by mousing over the instance door... that IS a clue) that is artificially made just longer by a simple multiplication formula.

 

It has nothing to do with hard vs, easy or, as some of you like to call it, "smartened up" vs. "dumbed down." It's all about entertaining and worthwhile vs. boring and pointless.

 

Craglorn = entertaining and worthwhile... VR content in the artificially jacked up "other faction" zones is boring and pointless. That content was designed for 1-50 gameplay. Scaling it up for VR play was just a quick kludge... and it shows. Making it "easier" is just a band-aid on the kludge that at least, brings the content back in line with its original intent.: solo content.

 

 

  Madimorga

Novice Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 1998

7/07/14 9:15:33 AM#82
Originally posted by Iselin

I think this thread went through a time warp. You guys are seriously discussing whether solo content should exist in MMOs? This bus didn't just leave the station... it's already at the destination. It got there about 10 years ago.

 

And once again... there is a difference between good hard gameplay and content that has obviously been designed for solo play (shit... a lot of this vet content tells you it's clearly "solo" only by mousing over the instance door... that IS a clue) that is artificially made just longer by a simple multiplication formula.

 

It has nothing to do with hard vs, easy or, as some of you like to call it, "smartened up" vs. "dumbed down." It's all about entertaining and worthwhile vs. boring and pointless.

 

Craglorn = entertaining and worthwhile... VR content in the artificially jacked up "other faction" zones is boring and pointless. That content was designed for 1-50 gameplay. Scaling it up for VR play was just a quick kludge... and it shows. Making it "easier" is just a band-aid on the kludge that at least, brings the content back in line with its original intent.: solo content.

 

 

 

You would think it had left the station, but these devs admit to 'encouraging' people to group with basic MMO armtwisting.  The Secret World has the same, Guild Wars 2, at least when I played, made droprates higher if you grouped, negating the entire concept of just showing up and killing things with people, and even Wildstar seems to be doing a bit of armtwisting with its mob density and those boss mobs scattered all over. 

 

Therefore, I conclude these devs want our money but not our solo playstyle.  And I'm sick of it.

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein

  bcbully

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7314

 
OP  7/07/14 9:49:29 AM#83

UPDATE - 7/7

 

Veteran Rank Changes

Phase 1 of our Veteran gameplay changes begins with this patch, the first in a series of changes we'll be making to improve the post-50 experience overall. We've lowered the difficulty of the second and third alliance zones to bring them more in lines with zones from 1-50. You'll be able to continue soloing through them more easily than before, though they'll still be challenging. We have much more information about Veteran System changes on the way, so make sure to watch our site for updates.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1363

7/07/14 11:08:46 AM#84
Originally posted by Iselin

I think this thread went through a time warp. You guys are seriously discussing whether solo content should exist in MMOs? This bus didn't just leave the station... it's already at the destination. It got there about 10 years ago.

And once again... there is a difference between good hard gameplay and content that has obviously been designed for solo play (shit... a lot of this vet content tells you it's clearly "solo" only by mousing over the instance door... that IS a clue) that is artificially made just longer by a simple multiplication formula.

It has nothing to do with hard vs, easy or, as some of you like to call it, "smartened up" vs. "dumbed down." It's all about entertaining and worthwhile vs. boring and pointless.

Craglorn = entertaining and worthwhile... VR content in the artificially jacked up "other faction" zones is boring and pointless. That content was designed for 1-50 gameplay. Scaling it up for VR play was just a quick kludge... and it shows. Making it "easier" is just a band-aid on the kludge that at least, brings the content back in line with its original intent.: solo content.

 

 

+1

And no matter how quickly you can complete the others factions content it will still be the other factions content.

  Ehllfhire

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 590

Playing the FFXIV 2.0 Demo

7/09/14 10:41:41 AM#85
I love this game. But I was so close to just unsubbing because VR content was like pounding my head into a brick wall. I actually have unparked my main and now am enjoying the game again. Its still tough as hell, and I usually cant kill 3 at once wo banner being up but I can now progress. So anyone qqing about it being easy mode needs to get off their skirt and stick builds and try something non op.

Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
PS3

  kresa3333

Novice Member

Joined: 2/04/14
Posts: 62

7/09/14 11:05:27 AM#86
I just wonder where those companies keep  finding  those designers
taking the must famous open world game and making another typical mmo its really sad
 who asked for this veteran feature its 1 of the worst features i seen so far in a big mmo
 and now that they woke up from the bubble they been living in gonna be fun to see them trying to fix it

instead of giving once again boring leveling system with many boring quests they should have tried following skyrim path in a mmorpg like way 

mmo with auto scaling  open pvp zones open pve zones open group zones etc... go where u want do what u want kind of feeling 

dungeons raids battlegrounds WvWvW are not a bad thing but it should be something all over the game not something u rush towards skiping the rest like its nothing 

there are many problems in doing this the right way but its 2014 so many years from the first days of mmorpg industry starting days and its about time to progress 

i sure even if it wont be totaly open world like skyrim ( because mmorpg is not single player game ) it can still give a very free kind of feeling if done right and become the next big thing

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3876

7/09/14 12:25:04 PM#87
Originally posted by Ehllfhire
So anyone qqing about it being easy mode needs to get off their skirt and stick builds and try something non op.

Over the past few days, just as a test, I started two brand new alts: Sorc + resto and a NB + bow both playing in the AD 1-15 zone. After all the tweaks to enhance stamina builds, even in the early levels, the sorc just facerolls through content the NB has to work at.

The VR tweak is a start, but those playing without a skirt and stick will continue to be the red haired stepchildren for a while yet. But at least they can do some of the VR content now...that's something I guess.

  JDis25

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/27/14
Posts: 330

7/10/14 8:11:25 PM#88

Just started playing again after a long break. I am at V4 Right now and from what I can tell, the game has improved substantially.  The Vet difficulty nerf is not major, though I have certainly noticed. At first I was skeptical, but it has streamlined mob kills functionally, and its just a bit smoother grinding through vet content. I think it was a good move, though I was doing fine at the higher difficulty. 

 

Vet dungeons are still challenging and PvP still needs  some work/incentives to bring back the players. Overall I see this game improving further. If it was at 6/10 at launch - It is at least 8/10 right now.

  Reklaw

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6168

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

7/11/14 2:01:13 AM#89
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Ehllfhire
So anyone qqing about it being easy mode needs to get off their skirt and stick builds and try something non op.

Over the past few days, just as a test, I started two brand new alts: Sorc + resto and a NB + bow both playing in the AD 1-15 zone. After all the tweaks to enhance stamina builds, even in the early levels, the sorc just facerolls through content the NB has to work at.

The VR tweak is a start, but those playing without a skirt and stick will continue to be the red haired stepchildren for a while yet. But at least they can do some of the VR content now...that's something I guess.

Maybe try different of builds?

I mean I have 4 lvl 24 character and I know I need some more work/respec to be done with my DK as that's my weakest of the 4, my bow wielding NB does better then my sorcerer and my Templar seems to be the strongest.

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5280

7/11/14 2:56:44 AM#90


They have gone the wrong way about it though, they made veteran easier, rather than make NB and Temp better at PvE. That means Sorcerors must be breezing through vet content now in comparison.

Rather than worry about stamina builds they should have first insured that all classes could create a good build for vet. After that look at stamina builds, which in my book if they only worked well in PvP would be fine.

Expecting one build to see you through from start to end game and all PvP is a bit much. :)

  Orious

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 360

7/11/14 3:34:33 AM#91

You guys realize this is Phase 1 of 3? We don't know what Phase 3 is going to be like. Potentially Phase 3 will make the change of difficulty a non-issue. But the Dungeons are still the same difficulty eh?

Wait until QuakeCon...find out their thoughts on Phase 3...stop whining until then.

  thark

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/01/03
Posts: 1107

7/11/14 10:37:16 AM#92
Originally posted by Olgark

So after all the moaning from so called fans of the game about the lack of group content to play with their friends in guilds they are now going to make the group content easier so they can solo it.

The veteran ranks are not a leveling experience they are there just as a icing on the cake, the leveling experience is ended when a player hits level 50/ After that you just increase the softcap on stats and skill points.

 

I wonder how long it will be before those asking for easier content in the veteran ranks will be latter on whinging about it being all solo content in a MMO. This is what happens when devs cave in and listen to the players.

Agree ..:)

Al these players have also already quit the game, and now we are getting forced Changes based on players that no longer plays the game...

 

Please ZENIMAX ..Stick with your vision

 

All my friends that left ESO left because the "lack of grouping"  .....And now they are making it even more solofriendly..

Maybe they should consider nerfing Craglorn aswell. I'm sure several has been whining about that aswell :)

  pantaro

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/16/07
Posts: 61

7/11/14 10:44:19 AM#93
Originally posted by Slapshot1188

For me the problem wasn't vet level difficulty, it was vet level boredom. There is no story after 50.. just go out (in "enemy" lands")and run boring quests with no backstory.  I got halfway through the first vet area and quit.

 

 

Same with me I had no issue with the challenge i like my challenge dammit! I just had no desire to go down the path they want me to.vr content was nothing more then a cheap half ass excuse to slow players down so they could get some REAL end game content going.I still cant get over how they falsely advertised this VR content as this solo end game content hahah

  DAS1337

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2382

7/11/14 10:46:59 AM#94

Sounds more like WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH!!! to me.  

 

To their credit though, I don't believe Zenimax should have designed their veteran content the way they did.  

  bcbully

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7314

 
OP  7/11/14 10:58:51 AM#95
Originally posted by pantaro
Originally posted by Slapshot1188

For me the problem wasn't vet level difficulty, it was vet level boredom. There is no story after 50.. just go out (in "enemy" lands")and run boring quests with no backstory.  I got halfway through the first vet area and quit.

 

 

Same with me I had no issue with the challenge i like my challenge dammit! I just had no desire to go down the path they want me to.vr content was nothing more then a cheap half ass excuse to slow players down so they could get some REAL end game content going.I still cant get over how they falsely advertised this VR content as this solo end game content hahah

Maybe both of you should have come to Cyrodiil. You know the largest portion of the game... I know this may sound like Im being a prick, but really you need to think about this. Cyrodiil is literally a huge part of ESO. From the quest to the exploration, to the keep battles, it's literally the center piece of the game. 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Greenthingg

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 24

7/11/14 11:00:44 AM#96

I never had troubles soloing the VR content, well maybe anchors, but anyways all I had to do is type some sentences in region chat and people came to help in no time, more often than not.  Heck I could even solo most world bosses within a couple of tries, using a healing staff as secondary weapon.

No, what made me unsub, is I got burnt questing.  I wanted to level via PvP.  When I first tried it we had a repeatable kill quest and I was having fun getting XP while PvPing, then they nerfed that quest to a daily.  Big mistake.

That game was being sold with that big PvP zone and then you were forced to grind grind quests to get to enjoy not being assraped by a VR10 in PvP.  So people like me didn't find fun being assraped for NOTHING XP wise and forced to PvE untill our eyes bleed.  Mind you, the difficulty in VR zones was welcomed, IMO.  Now that they remove it, gives me even less incentives to play again.  Was a disapointment that game has been.  Stopped at VR4 and waiting 'till they add more PvP content and PvP levelling.  Never will do another boring quest grind again (and in the meantime I'm not playing any MMOs, playing Nosgoth and Chivalry, real 100% PvP games).

  ste2000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4735

7/11/14 11:12:06 AM#97
Originally posted by DamonVile
people can ask for challenging content on forums all they like but in the end wow was right. Easy is what really sell.

That means you don't understand what is WoW.

WoW has an easy leveling curve and an hardcore end game, so ESO copied exactly the WoW formula in that sense.

Problem with ESO is that unlike WoW the difference between Leveling and End Game is abyssal.

Leveling is stupid easy, End game is stupid hard, while WoW makes this transition a bit smoother particular with different difficulty level for End Game content (Dungeon Normal-->Dungeon Heroic-->Raid LFR--->Flex Raid---Raid 25)

I never bought ESO after playing Beta because leveling was too easy (I was going on autopilot), but I did play some dungeons and they were kinda hard for a regular dungeon, that sort of level of difficulty you can find it in a WoW Raid, you don't expect to find it in a Dungeon.

In the end making end game more easy won't save this game, simply because it is too bland and not TES enough, I own every TES game since Arena (TES 1) but I didn't buy this piece of crap.

TES has always been a quality product, ESO is not, it is just a marketing gimmick............. shame on you Bethesda.

  Ehllfhire

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 590

Playing the FFXIV 2.0 Demo

7/11/14 12:51:13 PM#98
Originally posted by thark
Originally posted by Olgark

So after all the moaning from so called fans of the game about the lack of group content to play with their friends in guilds they are now going to make the group content easier so they can solo it.

The veteran ranks are not a leveling experience they are there just as a icing on the cake, the leveling experience is ended when a player hits level 50/ After that you just increase the softcap on stats and skill points.

 

I wonder how long it will be before those asking for easier content in the veteran ranks will be latter on whinging about it being all solo content in a MMO. This is what happens when devs cave in and listen to the players.

Agree ..:)

Al these players have also already quit the game, and now we are getting forced Changes based on players that no longer plays the game...

 

Please ZENIMAX ..Stick with your vision

 

All my friends that left ESO left because the "lack of grouping"  .....And now they are making it even more solofriendly..

Maybe they should consider nerfing Craglorn aswell. I'm sure several has been whining about that aswell :)

um I still play. Just becasue it was easy to stick and skirt users doesnt mean it was easy. I can now actually progress in the game. But I guess you just want the game to fail.

Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
PS3

  centkin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/01/10
Posts: 826

7/11/14 1:13:40 PM#99

I very recently moved on as well, but the nerfing of the vet content was just one part of it.  What actually was the final straw was a sinple quest in Grahtwood.  Bosmer Insight.  It seems like your normal quest, BUT you get a special reward at the end, a buff you can renew at any time that lasts an hour.  Thing is (especially at the very early part of it where you choose) the game does not tell you what buffs you will get.  If you choose anything but the snake, you just hurt yourself badly.  I did even worse -- I went Tiger.

Tiger is the only one of the three (Wolf, Snake, Tiger) that does NOT give you 5% extra DPS.  If you want to be doing time trials and such, you really should have Snake.  Snake is -5% damage taken +5% DPS.  This is even worse in that it is on one side only.  I am from the Pact side and this came up at VR 8.  If I had been AD then I would have not only realized, oh I just messed this character up, early enough to re-roll, but the buff would be far easier to get without pesky monsters getting in the way, and it would be a buff I could have kept up during the whole process of play.  Pacts are actually at a significant disadvantage in that this quest is on the AD side.

The third one was the fact that there is a very bad bug/exploit on Funnel Health right now for Nightblades.  It is taking its damage from the nearest damage number to when it first ticks.  This is very often a low damage dot giving you like a 10 point healing set of ticks instead of the 150 or so I expect.  The problem is that it also works as an exploit if you time a higher damage ability correctly.  Someone specd/geared a little different from me was able to consistantly get over 1,000 point heals from this ability.  There are high damage abilities you can play towards that make Funnel insane now.  So you can either exploit it, or it can get in your way as you specifically avoid trying to exploit it.  This has been going on for about 2 weeks now without being fixed.

Thing is even avoiding using the exploit and using the ability as often broken, the content is now very easy, even as the most underpowered class.  Funnel being busted make me not able to satisfactorily  fill my role as a healer in a group, and that buff just made me pull the trigger.

 

  Ginaz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/01/07
Posts: 1720

7/12/14 11:50:13 AM#100
"We thought you would enjoy being kicked in the nuts when you reached max level.  We were wrong."

Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

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