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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » "Vet Content is Too Hard" - Upcoming changes

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105 posts found
  Datawarlock

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/08/05
Posts: 315

You have been issued a temporary ban by one of our moderators.Category: Trolling!

7/06/14 4:56:26 AM#61
I'll just say it. Yet another MMO dumbed down for the whining casual single player special ed gamer that needs his participation trophy without doing any of the work.

“Generals think war should be waged like the tourneys of the Middle Ages. I have no use for knights; I need revolutionaries.” – Adolf Hitler

  Datawarlock

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/08/05
Posts: 315

You have been issued a temporary ban by one of our moderators.Category: Trolling!

7/06/14 5:01:26 AM#62
Originally posted by Yoda_Clone
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by Loke666

Nerfing the difficulty is a mistake, they should focus on improving grouping instead.

Then again, changing the curve (1-50 easy, VR hard) might not be a bad idea so that the difficulty improves at a more stable rate which would make peoples learning curves better. Having the dif go up directly from easy to hard instead of slowing improving all the time do turn off more players.

But I don't think that the vets content difficulty is the real problem here, it will only makes player run through the content faster.

This is the minority view and isn't in line with the average MMOer.

What is apparent is the LACK OF PLAY-TESTING, more than anything else.

Beta was a joke; Beta is where you find bugs and problems with mechanics.  PLAY-TESTING is where you determine player satisfaction with designs... as in, IS IT FUN?  IS IT BALANCED?

They didn't have any and still don't.  They are using live player feedback in lieu of play-testing and it's biting them in the butt.  Bad design decisions show up in the released game when they should be caught on the test server.

FWIW -- personal peeve -- it's W-H-I-N-I-N-G, not W-H-I-N-G-I-N-G.  No "G".  You don't "whinge", you "whine".  This is as bad as they're-there-their and too-to-two...  Didn't any gamers ever take English class?  How did you graduate high school?  I know the Anerican education system has gone to hell in the last 40 years and the Internet has made things worse, but how do you expect to be taken seriously on a forum if you can't write coherently?

Sorry... needed to get that off my chest.  "Whinging" just makes me grit my teeth...

Yo, Engrish major, it's spelled 'American'. No "N" You're not from "Anerica", you're from "America" This is as bad as....

=P

“Generals think war should be waged like the tourneys of the Middle Ages. I have no use for knights; I need revolutionaries.” – Adolf Hitler

  R3d.Gallows

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/30/14
Posts: 5

7/06/14 6:10:22 AM#63
Originally posted by Datawarlock
Originally posted by Yoda_Clone
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by Loke666

Nerfing the difficulty is a mistake, they should focus on improving grouping instead.

Then again, changing the curve (1-50 easy, VR hard) might not be a bad idea so that the difficulty improves at a more stable rate which would make peoples learning curves better. Having the dif go up directly from easy to hard instead of slowing improving all the time do turn off more players.

But I don't think that the vets content difficulty is the real problem here, it will only makes player run through the content faster.

This is the minority view and isn't in line with the average MMOer.

What is apparent is the LACK OF PLAY-TESTING, more than anything else.

Beta was a joke; Beta is where you find bugs and problems with mechanics.  PLAY-TESTING is where you determine player satisfaction with designs... as in, IS IT FUN?  IS IT BALANCED?

They didn't have any and still don't.  They are using live player feedback in lieu of play-testing and it's biting them in the butt.  Bad design decisions show up in the released game when they should be caught on the test server.

FWIW -- personal peeve -- it's W-H-I-N-I-N-G, not W-H-I-N-G-I-N-G.  No "G".  You don't "whinge", you "whine".  This is as bad as they're-there-their and too-to-two...  Didn't any gamers ever take English class?  How did you graduate high school?  I know the Anerican education system has gone to hell in the last 40 years and the Internet has made things worse, but how do you expect to be taken seriously on a forum if you can't write coherently?

Sorry... needed to get that off my chest.  "Whinging" just makes me grit my teeth...

Yo, Engrish major, it's spelled 'American'. No "N" You're not from "Anerica", you're from "America" This is as bad as....

=P

'Anerican' is a typo, 'whinging' is an actual, correctly spelled word. 

  loulaki

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/20/11
Posts: 810

7/06/14 6:48:23 AM#64

to add my opinion:

 

they could better add improved drops for group member than solo, and then you encourage the social aspect of the game.

but instead (at least for the beta-demo) i saw asocial gathering mechanics and weird resurrecting restrictions/mechanics from other players to other players.i know its their first MMO they design, but there are tons of examples to get some good lessons or at least to get a direction to move forward and add the social aspect into a good solo RPG like the Elder Scroll series ...

  greatskys

Elite Member

Joined: 4/02/14
Posts: 301

7/06/14 6:53:44 AM#65
I was thinking about going back because I heard the endgame was quite challenging something that is missing in most mmos . This has made me decide not to . 
  greatskys

Elite Member

Joined: 4/02/14
Posts: 301

7/06/14 6:59:30 AM#66
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by Loke666

Nerfing the difficulty is a mistake, they should focus on improving grouping instead.

Then again, changing the curve (1-50 easy, VR hard) might not be a bad idea so that the difficulty improves at a more stable rate which would make peoples learning curves better. Having the dif go up directly from easy to hard instead of slowing improving all the time do turn off more players.

But I don't think that the vets content difficulty is the real problem here, it will only makes player run through the content faster.

This is the minority view and isn't in line with the average MMOer.

Thats a bit of a sweeping comment I can tell you all the average mmo players I know do not like dumbing down . Even the average WoW player didn't like it . Look at all the subs they lost . 

  User Deleted
7/06/14 12:20:54 PM#67
Originally posted by greatskys
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by Loke666

Nerfing the difficulty is a mistake, they should focus on improving grouping instead.

Then again, changing the curve (1-50 easy, VR hard) might not be a bad idea so that the difficulty improves at a more stable rate which would make peoples learning curves better. Having the dif go up directly from easy to hard instead of slowing improving all the time do turn off more players.

But I don't think that the vets content difficulty is the real problem here, it will only makes player run through the content faster.

This is the minority view and isn't in line with the average MMOer.

Thats a bit of a sweeping comment I can tell you all the average mmo players I know do not like dumbing down . Even the average WoW player didn't like it . Look at all the subs they lost . 

Actually you are vey wrong about that, WoW is still where it is BECAUSE of changes Blizzard did to it. As much as i dislike WoW as a game Blizzard knows how to react and whats behind things, and their little experiment with Cata cost the dearly and im pretty sure they wont do that again.

But then WoW is inherently flawed in its design, but Blizzard manages to band aid it and still hold on to millions of players (just look at insta 90 item, no it isnt THE solution, yes it is band aid to the problem, yes it is prety much best they can do without reworking whole game, and its just an example). Thats why every WoW clone fails, because of that inherently flawed design. WoW pulled it off (with a lot of luck behind it), but no WoW clone will manage to do it again until devs correct those inherent design flaws. But then it wont be WoW clone any more.

  Peer_Gynt

Novice Member

Joined: 6/17/14
Posts: 18

"Be true to yourself and to hell with the world"

7/06/14 2:27:59 PM#68
Originally posted by bcbully

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/117132/veteran-system-changes-preview

 

Veteran System Changes Preview

ZOS_JessicaFolsom in Developer Discussions Staff Post

 

Hi everyone,

One of the topics we frequently get feedback on is ESO’s Veteran content. Some of you may have seen our recent comments about changes we have in store for ESO’s post-50 experience. We want you to know we’ve been listening to your suggestions and concerns, but more importantly, we want to tell you what we’re doing about them. Today, we have an update from the ESO Dev Team to share with you.

Some of the concerns you’ve called out are: Veteran content is too much of a departure from the level 1 to 50 experience, playing and leveling through it is too much of a grind, and that the rewards you get don’t match the effort you have to put in to progress.

One of the guiding principles of our Veteran gameplay was to encourage you (not force you) to group. We wanted you to be able to reach max level by playing solo if you wished, but still encourage you to group with others along the way. This principle was the reason we made our post-50 zones more difficult; we wanted you to get together with others to take on tougher challenges and form social bonds while you did so. But we understand that, despite our vision, this is not how all our players want to experience the game beyond level 50.

We recognize that many of you love the game you played while leveling up, and that you feel the post-50 zones are too much of a departure from that experience. We hear your requests to continue participating in solo content as you progress through Veteran Ranks, and we’re acting on that feedback.

Starting next week on Monday, July 7th, you’ll see the first significant change we’re making to the Veteran System. We’re implementing some balance changes to content in post-50 zones that will make it much more like the content from levels 1-50. Our goal is to remove the feeling of “I have just hit a wall of difficulty” that many of you have expressed—you’ll be able to solo much more easily. This is just the first of many large-scale changes coming to ESO’s Veteran System, and we encourage you to watch our QuakeCon panel on Friday, July 17th, where we’ll go into much more detail about the other parts.

Thank you for sticking with us, sharing your concerns, and supporting a game we all love.

 

 

Great. So what's actually happened is they've caved in to the whiners and rage quitters. The dingbats that infest every new game, outright refuse the play the game as it was intended, and instead cry and bitch until the game publisher mutilates their game into a sad parody of it's former self. And the worst part about this is that most of these crybabies have already left the game never to return, leaving those that have been enjoying the game all along, playing this perverted version of the game they never asked for, nor wanted.

I had high hopes that Zenimax would stick to their guns and avoid letting the people who don't want to play the game in the first place dictate policy on how it should be played. Sadly it looks like hope truly is the first step on the road to disappointment. After seeing this I'm expecting to see an announcement for a global auction house addition any day now.

  Madimorga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 1997

7/06/14 5:03:05 PM#69
Originally posted by bcbully

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/117132/veteran-system-changes-preview

 

 

One of the guiding principles of our Veteran gameplay was to encourage you (not force you) to group. We wanted you to be able to reach max level by playing solo if you wished, but still encourage you to group with others along the way. This principle was the reason we made our post-50 zones more difficult; we wanted you to get together with others to take on tougher challenges and form social bonds while you did so. But we understand that, despite our vision, this is not how all our players want to experience the game beyond level 50.


 

 

MMO devs everywhere need to read this and realize solo players do not want our arms twisted to force us to group.  

 

I haven't bought this yet, waiting on Imperial Edition to be cheap, which may or may not ever happen.  I'm just happy solo players are putting our collective foot down on nonsense like this.

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein

  Datawarlock

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/08/05
Posts: 315

You have been issued a temporary ban by one of our moderators.Category: Trolling!

7/06/14 5:16:48 PM#70
Originally posted by Madimorga
Originally posted by bcbully

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/117132/veteran-system-changes-preview

 

 

One of the guiding principles of our Veteran gameplay was to encourage you (not force you) to group. We wanted you to be able to reach max level by playing solo if you wished, but still encourage you to group with others along the way. This principle was the reason we made our post-50 zones more difficult; we wanted you to get together with others to take on tougher challenges and form social bonds while you did so. But we understand that, despite our vision, this is not how all our players want to experience the game beyond level 50.


 

 

MMO devs everywhere need to read this and realize solo players do not want our arms twisted to force us to group.  

 

I haven't bought this yet, waiting on Imperial Edition to be cheap, which may or may not ever happen.  I'm just happy solo players are putting our collective foot down on nonsense like this.

They do make games for your kind you know. They're called single-player, and they're perfect for you 'solo players'. If you need some sort of global chat to wave your epeen around in while you play, just start a group chat in AIM or something. All that soloing of a game that was dumbed down specifically so that you could feel like you accomplished something all by yourself, then delude yourself into believing that the rest of us aren't standing there at the same mountain top with you. Solo Players.... a psychologists next best-seller novel.

“Generals think war should be waged like the tourneys of the Middle Ages. I have no use for knights; I need revolutionaries.” – Adolf Hitler

  JDis25

Elite Member

Joined: 4/27/14
Posts: 281

7/06/14 6:59:16 PM#71
They should have increased xp from Vet content, not decreased difficulty. It really wasn't that bad, just have to know what spells you like to use and use weapon swap. I had a resto staff though, so maybe that is why I am skewed a bit.
  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5545

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

7/06/14 7:09:09 PM#72

ZoS really have their priority all scrambled. How is it making the game easier to solo an improvement? Specially since the entire leveling is solo friendly already.... If it "so difficult" then why not add grouping bonus to motivate people to group up? If a group can take on anything then the game is not difficult. Stop making mmos for solo players. Relieving the grind of X content doesnt mean making the game easier...... sigh

 

Hope fades more with every patch.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  Joeyjojoshabadu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/21/14
Posts: 97

7/06/14 9:48:24 PM#73
Originally posted by rojoArcueid

ZoS really have their priority all scrambled. How is it making the game easier to solo an improvement? Specially since the entire leveling is solo friendly already.... If it "so difficult" then why not add grouping bonus to motivate people to group up? If a group can take on anything then the game is not difficult. Stop making mmos for solo players. Relieving the grind of X content doesnt mean making the game easier...... sigh

 

Hope fades more with every patch.

I don't know why anyone is surprised, or entertains much hope. The devs have consistently made less than stellar decisions when it comes to changes in gameplay mechanics and core functionality and they are going to continue to do so, as is their wont. The vet levels are a perfect example - a cheap and poorly thought out way to x3 the longevity of the vanilla game (I wonder who was responsible for that decision, a specific dev? A suit?). Keep 'em playing, keep 'em paying. It's hard to believe they thought people would gladly swallow that pill (and, sure enough, most didn't) and it doesn't show much respect for their customers.

 

  Zhiroc

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/04
Posts: 213

7/07/14 1:06:55 AM#74

One of the problems with MMOs and grouping, is that it often just sucks the fun out ot it. What I mean is that when I'm solo'ing, I'm playing a rather casual game in my head--how do I choose to level with what content, how can I approach a hard scenario and win, etc. But when I fail, I can shrug it off because it's just me who failed. But when I group, now I have responsibilities, and people are counting on me.

And while some people find fun in that challenge, it's what I call stressful, and not in a good way. Sure, most of the times, the group just steamrolls through something, maybe even the final boss. I don't really find a lot of fun in that either. And when the time comes that someone makes a mistake and causes a wipe, I hate it when folks start the blame game.

If you want to promote grouping in these games, I think you need to solve this basic problem. Casuals (and though I play a lot, and try to work out optimal and effiicient strategies, I'd have to say preferences lie more in that direction nowadays) are probably not looking for the "high octane" experience of "challenging" group content, and by their nature, probably don't play enough to get the skill, experience, and gear necessary.

And the problem is, IMHO there aren't enough people who want to play a "hard game" to sustain a P2P MMO with an AAA budget. Just look at EVE, which is probably one of the few games that have stuck to their principles and built the game they wanted and been successful. After a decade, yes, they have about 500K subs (though in my opinion, because of rampant multiboxing, the actual player count is probably lower), and by their own admission, only 1 out of 10 new players stay for any length of time.

Until someone figures out how to mix casuals and hardcores successfully, big-name and big-budget MMOs are going to be casual-friendly.

BTW, the fact that ZOS is doing this might be an indication that they need to change the trajectory of their sub numbers...

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2906

7/07/14 2:43:35 AM#75
Originally posted by rojoArcueid

ZoS really have their priority all scrambled. How is it making the game easier to solo an improvement? Specially since the entire leveling is solo friendly already.... If it "so difficult" then why not add grouping bonus to motivate people to group up? If a group can take on anything then the game is not difficult. Stop making mmos for solo players. Relieving the grind of X content doesnt mean making the game easier...... sigh

 

Hope fades more with every patch.

I think what you meant was "Hope fades more with every MMO" ?

 

It seems the average MMO player does not want to group if they can possibly avoid it. The moment there's a bonus given to grouping, everyone screams loudly that they're being "forced to group", because that is the only way to get the highest XP rate or the best loot, etc....

 

 

  User Deleted
7/07/14 3:00:06 AM#76
Originally posted by Zhiroc

One of the problems with MMOs and grouping, is that it often just sucks the fun out ot it. What I mean is that when I'm solo'ing, I'm playing a rather casual game in my head--how do I choose to level with what content, how can I approach a hard scenario and win, etc. But when I fail, I can shrug it off because it's just me who failed. But when I group, now I have responsibilities, and people are counting on me.

And while some people find fun in that challenge, it's what I call stressful, and not in a good way. Sure, most of the times, the group just steamrolls through something, maybe even the final boss. I don't really find a lot of fun in that either. And when the time comes that someone makes a mistake and causes a wipe, I hate it when folks start the blame game.

If you want to promote grouping in these games, I think you need to solve this basic problem. Casuals (and though I play a lot, and try to work out optimal and effiicient strategies, I'd have to say preferences lie more in that direction nowadays) are probably not looking for the "high octane" experience of "challenging" group content, and by their nature, probably don't play enough to get the skill, experience, and gear necessary.

And the problem is, IMHO there aren't enough people who want to play a "hard game" to sustain a P2P MMO with an AAA budget. Just look at EVE, which is probably one of the few games that have stuck to their principles and built the game they wanted and been successful. After a decade, yes, they have about 500K subs (though in my opinion, because of rampant multiboxing, the actual player count is probably lower), and by their own admission, only 1 out of 10 new players stay for any length of time.

Until someone figures out how to mix casuals and hardcores successfully, big-name and big-budget MMOs are going to be casual-friendly.

BTW, the fact that ZOS is doing this might be an indication that they need to change the trajectory of their sub numbers...

You cannot have casual game that hardcore at the same time.

And you cannot have hardcore game thats casual at the same time.

Sooner the devs/investors/players/w/e realize that the better.

Hardcores cant support AAA MMO, thats why all hardcore games are low numbers indie games.

And i cannot fathom these hardcores that come into AAA MMOs ( requireing million(s) of subs to keep running) and whine/cry/bitch about game not being made for them. Of course its freaking not being made for you, its AAA MMO, it cannot survive on 1000-2000 subs.

So yeah, either stay away from AAA MMOs and go play games that are made for you or make peace that developer might provide very small amount of content for you (or none), because IT ISNT VIABLE to do otherwise.

Youd reckon after 15 years they would get the hint lol, i guess its very very slow learning process(but its not really learning in question, its entitlement issue and delusion of grandeur. When that collides with "youre not really important in the grand scheme of things", well, problems arise and lot of whineing/crying/btching on the forums)

  User Deleted
7/07/14 3:05:27 AM#77
Originally posted by SpottyGekko
Originally posted by rojoArcueid

ZoS really have their priority all scrambled. How is it making the game easier to solo an improvement? Specially since the entire leveling is solo friendly already.... If it "so difficult" then why not add grouping bonus to motivate people to group up? If a group can take on anything then the game is not difficult. Stop making mmos for solo players. Relieving the grind of X content doesnt mean making the game easier...... sigh

 

Hope fades more with every patch.

I think what you meant was "Hope fades more with every MMO" ?

 

It seems the average MMO player does not want to group if they can possibly avoid it. The moment there's a bonus given to grouping, everyone screams loudly that they're being "forced to group", because that is the only way to get the highest XP rate or the best loot, etc....

 

 

The moment theres a group bonus noone cares.

The moment the group bonus gets ridiculous of course its a red card. What did you expect people to just bend over.

And people will group when they want to, not when you, developer or anyone else tells them they have to. Its pretty simple really. Let this be a lesson you young grasshopper. I just hope other devs that still live in the past also got the memo.

  Peer_Gynt

Novice Member

Joined: 6/17/14
Posts: 18

"Be true to yourself and to hell with the world"

7/07/14 4:41:50 AM#78
Originally posted by Malabooga
Originally posted by Zhiroc

One of the problems with MMOs and grouping, is that it often just sucks the fun out ot it. What I mean is that when I'm solo'ing, I'm playing a rather casual game in my head--how do I choose to level with what content, how can I approach a hard scenario and win, etc. But when I fail, I can shrug it off because it's just me who failed. But when I group, now I have responsibilities, and people are counting on me.

And while some people find fun in that challenge, it's what I call stressful, and not in a good way. Sure, most of the times, the group just steamrolls through something, maybe even the final boss. I don't really find a lot of fun in that either. And when the time comes that someone makes a mistake and causes a wipe, I hate it when folks start the blame game.

If you want to promote grouping in these games, I think you need to solve this basic problem. Casuals (and though I play a lot, and try to work out optimal and effiicient strategies, I'd have to say preferences lie more in that direction nowadays) are probably not looking for the "high octane" experience of "challenging" group content, and by their nature, probably don't play enough to get the skill, experience, and gear necessary.

And the problem is, IMHO there aren't enough people who want to play a "hard game" to sustain a P2P MMO with an AAA budget. Just look at EVE, which is probably one of the few games that have stuck to their principles and built the game they wanted and been successful. After a decade, yes, they have about 500K subs (though in my opinion, because of rampant multiboxing, the actual player count is probably lower), and by their own admission, only 1 out of 10 new players stay for any length of time.

Until someone figures out how to mix casuals and hardcores successfully, big-name and big-budget MMOs are going to be casual-friendly.

BTW, the fact that ZOS is doing this might be an indication that they need to change the trajectory of their sub numbers...

You cannot have casual game that hardcore at the same time.

And you cannot have hardcore game thats casual at the same time.

Sooner the devs/investors/players/w/e realize that the better.

Hardcores cant support AAA MMO, thats why all hardcore games are low numbers indie games.

And i cannot fathom these hardcores that come into AAA MMOs ( requireing million(s) of subs to keep running) and whine/cry/bitch about game not being made for them. Of course its freaking not being made for you, its AAA MMO, it cannot survive on 1000-2000 subs.

So yeah, either stay away from AAA MMOs and go play games that are made for you or make peace that developer might provide very small amount of content for you (or none), because IT ISNT VIABLE to do otherwise.

Youd reckon after 15 years they would get the hint lol, i guess its very very slow learning process(but its not really learning in question, its entitlement issue and delusion of grandeur. When that collides with "youre not really important in the grand scheme of things", well, problems arise and lot of whineing/crying/btching on the forums)

Are you both seriously equating not being able to faceroll through every bit of game content to full loot, hardcore PVP games?  I think I've now seen everything. Just how easy do modern MMO players need these games to be? Should developers just give up and create a script that gives you a little "You've won, huzza! Now go play something else" message just for managing to use the icon to launch the game? I mean I can use tons of words to describe ESO, not all of them good, but hardcore is certainly not one of them.

  User Deleted
7/07/14 7:05:20 AM#79
Originally posted by Peer_Gynt
Originally posted by Malabooga
Originally posted by Zhiroc

One of the problems with MMOs and grouping, is that it often just sucks the fun out ot it. What I mean is that when I'm solo'ing, I'm playing a rather casual game in my head--how do I choose to level with what content, how can I approach a hard scenario and win, etc. But when I fail, I can shrug it off because it's just me who failed. But when I group, now I have responsibilities, and people are counting on me.

And while some people find fun in that challenge, it's what I call stressful, and not in a good way. Sure, most of the times, the group just steamrolls through something, maybe even the final boss. I don't really find a lot of fun in that either. And when the time comes that someone makes a mistake and causes a wipe, I hate it when folks start the blame game.

If you want to promote grouping in these games, I think you need to solve this basic problem. Casuals (and though I play a lot, and try to work out optimal and effiicient strategies, I'd have to say preferences lie more in that direction nowadays) are probably not looking for the "high octane" experience of "challenging" group content, and by their nature, probably don't play enough to get the skill, experience, and gear necessary.

And the problem is, IMHO there aren't enough people who want to play a "hard game" to sustain a P2P MMO with an AAA budget. Just look at EVE, which is probably one of the few games that have stuck to their principles and built the game they wanted and been successful. After a decade, yes, they have about 500K subs (though in my opinion, because of rampant multiboxing, the actual player count is probably lower), and by their own admission, only 1 out of 10 new players stay for any length of time.

Until someone figures out how to mix casuals and hardcores successfully, big-name and big-budget MMOs are going to be casual-friendly.

BTW, the fact that ZOS is doing this might be an indication that they need to change the trajectory of their sub numbers...

You cannot have casual game that hardcore at the same time.

And you cannot have hardcore game thats casual at the same time.

Sooner the devs/investors/players/w/e realize that the better.

Hardcores cant support AAA MMO, thats why all hardcore games are low numbers indie games.

And i cannot fathom these hardcores that come into AAA MMOs ( requireing million(s) of subs to keep running) and whine/cry/bitch about game not being made for them. Of course its freaking not being made for you, its AAA MMO, it cannot survive on 1000-2000 subs.

So yeah, either stay away from AAA MMOs and go play games that are made for you or make peace that developer might provide very small amount of content for you (or none), because IT ISNT VIABLE to do otherwise.

Youd reckon after 15 years they would get the hint lol, i guess its very very slow learning process(but its not really learning in question, its entitlement issue and delusion of grandeur. When that collides with "youre not really important in the grand scheme of things", well, problems arise and lot of whineing/crying/btching on the forums)

Are you both seriously equating not being able to faceroll through every bit of game content to full loot, hardcore PVP games?  I think I've now seen everything. Just how easy do modern MMO players need these games to be? Should developers just give up and create a script that gives you a little "You've won, huzza! Now go play something else" message just for managing to use the icon to launch the game? I mean I can use tons of words to describe ESO, not all of them good, but hardcore is certainly not one of them.

Thats whats on offer, yes. If you cannot find a game that suits you, well, thats your problem, as ti seems absolutely noone wants to play a game you want. Simple.

Modern MMOs need to be FUN for vast majority of people. Youve won? Won what exactly? New panties? Sword of thousand truths? W/e.

Use whatever words to describe ESO, it doesnt really matter, its getting "dumbed down" and thats a fact you have to deal with. Not whine/cry/bitch on forums about it. Developers gave you lenghty explanation of "why". And, by coincidence (or not) every themepark AAA MMO was "dumbed down" considerably. Thats also a fact.

  Madimorga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 1997

7/07/14 8:42:36 AM#80
Originally posted by Datawarlock
Originally posted by Madimorga
Originally posted by bcbully

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/117132/veteran-system-changes-preview

 

 

One of the guiding principles of our Veteran gameplay was to encourage you (not force you) to group. We wanted you to be able to reach max level by playing solo if you wished, but still encourage you to group with others along the way. This principle was the reason we made our post-50 zones more difficult; we wanted you to get together with others to take on tougher challenges and form social bonds while you did so. But we understand that, despite our vision, this is not how all our players want to experience the game beyond level 50.


 

 

MMO devs everywhere need to read this and realize solo players do not want our arms twisted to force us to group.  

 

I haven't bought this yet, waiting on Imperial Edition to be cheap, which may or may not ever happen.  I'm just happy solo players are putting our collective foot down on nonsense like this.

They do make games for your kind you know. They're called single-player, and they're perfect for you 'solo players'. If you need some sort of global chat to wave your epeen around in while you play, just start a group chat in AIM or something. All that soloing of a game that was dumbed down specifically so that you could feel like you accomplished something all by yourself, then delude yourself into believing that the rest of us aren't standing there at the same mountain top with you. Solo Players.... a psychologists next best-seller novel.

 

Cry all you want.  There are a lot of us, and as people get even snottier, there will be more, because no one likes being forced to play with douchebags.

 

But gloating aside:  If MMO devs do not want solo players to play their games, all they have to do is say upfront that their games aren't for solo players.  But they do want us to play.  Or rather they want us to pay them money.  Then they want to do all kinds of shady crap to try to force us to play in ways we never wanted to play.  Zenimax got bit for it.  Hope all devs do as well.  They want to make a group game?  Fine, but don't try to get our money then annoy us to death.

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein

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