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General Discussion  » "Vet Content is Too Hard" - Upcoming changes

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105 posts found
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15588

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

7/04/14 4:46:07 PM#41
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Slapshot1188
Originally posted by Asariasha
Originally posted by Slapshot1188

For me the problem wasn't vet level difficulty, it was vet level boredom. There is no story after 50.. just go out (in "enemy" lands")and run boring quests with no backstory.  I got halfway through the first vet area and quit.

 

 

Maybe you should start reading / listening instead of skipping the story? Each zone has got an own story line that in addition is tied to the story arc of the faction.

 

Yes which makes no sense that I am suddenly befriending the Queen of the AD who is my mortal enemy...

 

The whole vet concept of doing the other zones was obviously just tacked on at the end of development and it shows.  If I want to experience the other 2 areas I'll make a character there.  The whole setup screams of a desperate last minute decision by the developers when they realized the content would only hold people for a few weeks.

 

 

The whole point of this change was in regard to the massive complaints about not being able to see it all on one character. It was not a smart change by any means, the same goes for the change to the starter areas. It's a pretty good lesson on not caving to every complaint your audience makes.

The added content was nothing but a bonus for Zenimax at least at the time. We see now though that it didn't make much difference in long term appeal.

I don't think they should have added levels associated with the added content though. I think that's where they went too far. 

 

If you are 50, you should have the option of doing the other areas for gold or maybe skill points imo. 

I agree in theory, though not seeing it I can't speak on it.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  tixylix

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 1110

7/04/14 5:33:03 PM#42
Always the way, something is hard, people whine on forums, the game gets dumbed down and people quit any ways because difficulty isn't why they quit, the game has deeper issues but the devs are too blind to see. 
  BurntCabbage

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/14
Posts: 297

7/04/14 5:44:36 PM#43

OP

"Vet Content is Unnecessary" - Upcoming changes

there i fixed it for ya..its not that its too hard..its more WAY to unnecessary and needed some fixing / twerkin lol imo

 

i dont play it anymore but will deff. pick it back up once it goes f2p

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1270

7/04/14 5:47:34 PM#44

Why not SCRAP VR+ and VR++ ?

 

As Sovrath says this was an answer to "seeing the world on one character" - tripled the content nominally as well - but it doesn't work. So have people run 1-50 on all three factions and provide post-50 global account rewards. 

Basically get to level 10 on an alt and any level 50s become VR1. Get level 50s on all 3 factions and you have 3 VR10 characters.

And because you would be doing 10 levels instead of one VR level you could spread out the rewards. So you get VR1.1, 1.2, 1.3 ..... VR2, 2.1 ..... VR10.

Simple solution. Would go a long way to addressing the point raised by Iselin about risk rewards and the point raised by Distopia - is it really hard or just tedious. (I think part of the tedium is down to the fact that you have no engagement in the others factions quests; you are doing them simply because you have to.)

  artemisentr4

Elite Member

Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1441

7/04/14 7:04:24 PM#45
Originally posted by gervaise1

Why not SCRAP VR+ and VR++ ?

 

As Sovrath says this was an answer to "seeing the world on one character" - tripled the content nominally as well - but it doesn't work. So have people run 1-50 on all three factions and provide post-50 global account rewards. 

Basically get to level 10 on an alt and any level 50s become VR1. Get level 50s on all 3 factions and you have 3 VR10 characters.

And because you would be doing 10 levels instead of one VR level you could spread out the rewards. So you get VR1.1, 1.2, 1.3 ..... VR2, 2.1 ..... VR10.

Simple solution. Would go a long way to addressing the point raised by Iselin about risk rewards and the point raised by Distopia - is it really hard or just tedious. (I think part of the tedium is down to the fact that you have no engagement in the others factions quests; you are doing them simply because you have to.)

The solution was what I originally thought they were going to do. From what I read pre-release, they were going to have 3 ways to gain VR levels. PvP VR leveling, Vet Dungeons and the 50+/++. So you should be able to pick the option you want and earn similar rewards. Each type of game play would have been covered. PvP and Dungeon runs would be and should be much faster than the VR questing. That would have kept more people happy IMO.

 

Instead, they ended up forcing everyone to quest for end game. Many like questing and wanted an end game of continued questing. That is what I was looking forward to, so it isn't a big issue for me. But even more just want to PvP or run dungeons/raids at end game. Obviously the failure to provide the 3 options caused the current problems.

 

At least the changes they are adding will help some, but they really need to just adjust the XP gain for VR levels with dungeon runs and PvP.

“How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
R.A.Salvatore

  moondrago

Novice Member

Joined: 2/04/05
Posts: 50

7/04/14 7:17:03 PM#46
end game ... what  end  game its nothing more  then  group  up to  complete  quest ...   all these  company think that  if one  person plays  an mmo  .. they have  friends that  want to play .. but the people  that solo  .. DONT  want  a  end game  that  MAKES you group .... guess  waht  if i have to  group to  get vr  lvl  .. i WONT  ....  other people  are   stupid and i dont want to  GROUp with them ...i didnt  group from 1- 50 so why the FUXCK would i group  for vr lvl ... as it  is  i  cancelled my sub ... they did  too little too late     fuck  zenimax  \

its a GoOd dAy to diE !!

  GolbezTheLion

Novice Member

Joined: 9/27/12
Posts: 250

7/04/14 7:23:05 PM#47
Originally posted by DamonVile
people can ask for challenging content on forums all they like but in the end wow was right. Easy is what really sell.

How many guilds cleared ICC25H before the expansion ended?

Not so easy after all. Such a common misconception.

  d_20

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/14/14
Posts: 299

7/04/14 8:02:59 PM#48

This is the smartest decision ZoS has made since ESO launched.

 

VR content was not at all fun. It was doable, but tedious and frustrating.

 

Reducing fake difficulty (just jack up mob hp and damage) and increasing rewards (i.e., more than 2gp after killing a boss), can go a long way to making VR zones more fun.

 

Also, DKs and Sorcs need to understand that their leveling experience is much different than that of Templars and NBs.

 

Good decision ZoS!

  TankYou88

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/25/14
Posts: 332

7/04/14 8:03:53 PM#49
Originally posted by moondrago
end game ... what  end  game its nothing more  then  group  up to  complete  quest ...   all these  company think that  if one  person plays  an mmo  .. they have  friends that  want to play .. but the people  that solo  .. DONT  want  a  end game  that  MAKES you group .... guess  waht  if i have to  group to  get vr  lvl  .. i WONT  ....  other people  are   stupid and i dont want to  GROUp with them ...i didnt  group from 1- 50 so why the FUXCK would i group  for vr lvl ... as it  is  i  cancelled my sub ... they did  too little too late     fuck  zenimax  \

They have MMOs that are made for non grouping players, its called single player RPGs...

  Olgark

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 290

7/05/14 1:21:15 AM#50

So after all the moaning from so called fans of the game about the lack of group content to play with their friends in guilds they are now going to make the group content easier so they can solo it.

The veteran ranks are not a leveling experience they are there just as a icing on the cake, the leveling experience is ended when a player hits level 50/ After that you just increase the softcap on stats and skill points.

 

I wonder how long it will be before those asking for easier content in the veteran ranks will be latter on whinging about it being all solo content in a MMO. This is what happens when devs cave in and listen to the players.

  Entinerint

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 716

7/05/14 7:11:48 AM#51

Dafuq?

 

I solo'd all the way to VR12 on a Nightblade.

 

How is VR content hard?  Grouping is already UN-necessary in VR zones unless you're doing group content like Anchors and group dungeons.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16700

7/05/14 7:27:55 AM#52

Nerfing the difficulty is a mistake, they should focus on improving grouping instead.

Then again, changing the curve (1-50 easy, VR hard) might not be a bad idea so that the difficulty improves at a more stable rate which would make peoples learning curves better. Having the dif go up directly from easy to hard instead of slowing improving all the time do turn off more players.

But I don't think that the vets content difficulty is the real problem here, it will only makes player run through the content faster.

  eldaris

Novice Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 326

7/05/14 7:47:44 AM#53

Veteran content was not hard,at least the few levels I did on my dark elf mage but it was clearly a last minute change and it made no sense for my dark elf character to help enemy factions in their war so after a few quests in which I had to help filthy orcs with their tribal problems I stopped playing it. The quests until 50 were mostly fun,especially mage and warrior guild ones - I didn't care much for the five companions beside Abnur Tharn which was more interesting than the rest,the vampire and werewolf were nice additions to the game,the mount system was really nice and something I hope more games will add or improve on.

I am not interested in helping enemy factions or learn their point of view,lack of an auction house was too annoying,no faction pride in pvp thanks to decisions like veteran ranks or explorer pack, no way to level outside pve and grinding dungeons or Craglorn for veteran rank 12 or more in the future - these are the reasons for which I stopped playing not the "difficulty" of veteran levels,the only difficulty was to try to care and solve arguments between orc vermin.
This looks like a panic move from Zenimax which tries to stop players from unsubscribing by modifying the only things they can change fast - xp and npc difficulty but they need to change the way veteran levels work(make it optional or for achievements etc) not nerf the monsters into the ground.

  User Deleted
7/05/14 4:59:58 PM#54
Originally posted by gervaise1

Why not SCRAP VR+ and VR++ ?

 

As Sovrath says this was an answer to "seeing the world on one character" - tripled the content nominally as well - but it doesn't work. So have people run 1-50 on all three factions and provide post-50 global account rewards. 

Basically get to level 10 on an alt and any level 50s become VR1. Get level 50s on all 3 factions and you have 3 VR10 characters.

And because you would be doing 10 levels instead of one VR level you could spread out the rewards. So you get VR1.1, 1.2, 1.3 ..... VR2, 2.1 ..... VR10.

Simple solution. Would go a long way to addressing the point raised by Iselin about risk rewards and the point raised by Distopia - is it really hard or just tedious. (I think part of the tedium is down to the fact that you have no engagement in the others factions quests; you are doing them simply because you have to.)

They didnt even had to think for themselves (if tehy wanted to go lazy route) and just copy SWTORs legacy levels as "alternate" xp bar you get when you reach lvl 50 with 1 character.

I think they picked one of the worst solutions to the "problem" they had.

  User Deleted
7/05/14 5:02:09 PM#55
Originally posted by Wizardry
Originally posted by Sovrath

It's "stupid" they way they did it.

You want people to group? Make areas/dungeons/encounters that are group specific.

Even go as far as to make an entire quest line group specific. People want to do this content? They group.

Additionally (and maybe they did someone can tell me though I highly doubt it) they can keep difficutly but add an xp bonus for groups.

Just making things difficult and having players "figure it out" after they have played 1-50 a certain way is not the way to do it.

 

This is EXACTLY why i laughed at Blizzard's design.You don't make a game solo 1-50 then expect players after soloing every single minute of every single day to all of a sudden know how to or want to group.So what did Blizzard do ,they made the best rewards at end game grouping content,lol because your not even leveling anymore so why even bother?

Devs need to quit with the lazy game designs, make an mmo then make it play like a MMO>>>GROUPING,you know interacting with other players.

All we have heard for the past 10 years is gaming needs to be >>>>>FUN.Well ok i can buy into that concept,then why are people complaining about too much time or i have to group,i thought if it was FUN that was the main goal?

Personally i know it was always bs the majority of gamer's don't belong in MMORPG's because truth is they are NOT playing for Fun but are instead playing a single player game that they think is all about attaining levels and as fast as possible.Then after they bored themselves to death running around doing quests,they wanted them to auto update,like that has ANY realism to it at all.../not.

Developers should ONLY be making changes that encourage interaction and to bring back the MMO in MMORPG's.Oh and what the heck might as well put the ROLE into the RPG aspect as well.Oh ya players don't want roles anymore,so they don't want the MMO nor the RPG aspect,why the heck play a mmorpg?The whole complaining and whining by gamer's baffles the heck out of me,it's like they want a rollercoaster, a theme park,an automatic self playing game,play for free,tons of friends without interacting with anyone,idk i am just baffled.Oh yes and can i please have a maximum level player and the best gear if i give you an extra 50 bucks for my preorder?

 

 

Bunch of BS.

You really want MMOs to dissapear as a genre? I guess people would get a hint after 15 years of experience. Too bad most of devs have your mentality so we are stuck in this no mans land situation where leveling is solo, solo=easy, endgame is group, group=hard, which is completely retarded.

As the saying goes....its like pulling teeth.

  keithian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 2977

7/05/14 6:55:12 PM#56
Originally posted by Loke666

Nerfing the difficulty is a mistake, they should focus on improving grouping instead.

Then again, changing the curve (1-50 easy, VR hard) might not be a bad idea so that the difficulty improves at a more stable rate which would make peoples learning curves better. Having the dif go up directly from easy to hard instead of slowing improving all the time do turn off more players.

But I don't think that the vets content difficulty is the real problem here, it will only makes player run through the content faster.

This is the minority view and isn't in line with the average MMOer.

There Is Always Hope!

  User Deleted
7/05/14 7:24:52 PM#57
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by Loke666

Nerfing the difficulty is a mistake, they should focus on improving grouping instead.

Then again, changing the curve (1-50 easy, VR hard) might not be a bad idea so that the difficulty improves at a more stable rate which would make peoples learning curves better. Having the dif go up directly from easy to hard instead of slowing improving all the time do turn off more players.

But I don't think that the vets content difficulty is the real problem here, it will only makes player run through the content faster.

This is the minority view and isn't in line with the average MMOer.

What is apparent is the LACK OF PLAY-TESTING, more than anything else.

Beta was a joke; Beta is where you find bugs and problems with mechanics.  PLAY-TESTING is where you determine player satisfaction with designs... as in, IS IT FUN?  IS IT BALANCED?

They didn't have any and still don't.  They are using live player feedback in lieu of play-testing and it's biting them in the butt.  Bad design decisions show up in the released game when they should be caught on the test server.

FWIW -- personal peeve -- it's W-H-I-N-I-N-G, not W-H-I-N-G-I-N-G.  No "G".  You don't "whinge", you "whine".  This is as bad as they're-there-their and too-to-two...  Didn't any gamers ever take English class?  How did you graduate high school?  I know the Anerican education system has gone to hell in the last 40 years and the Internet has made things worse, but how do you expect to be taken seriously on a forum if you can't write coherently?

Sorry... needed to get that off my chest.  "Whinging" just makes me grit my teeth...

  sethman75

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/14/13
Posts: 199

7/05/14 7:45:58 PM#58
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by Loke666

Nerfing the difficulty is a mistake, they should focus on improving grouping instead.

Then again, changing the curve (1-50 easy, VR hard) might not be a bad idea so that the difficulty improves at a more stable rate which would make peoples learning curves better. Having the dif go up directly from easy to hard instead of slowing improving all the time do turn off more players.

But I don't think that the vets content difficulty is the real problem here, it will only makes player run through the content faster.

This is the minority view and isn't in line with the average MMOer.

+1

Devs make their game for the maximum amount of players

They don't make games for the l33t players that make up 1% of the total players that enjoy a punishing game.

 

  BizkitNL

Old School

Joined: 12/29/02
Posts: 2293

"Free to play, pay to win""

7/05/14 7:47:27 PM#59

They're....making things a bit easier?

So it begins.....

Feel like trying Planetside 2? Get a headstart with the starter kit!

  R3d.Gallows

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/30/14
Posts: 5

7/06/14 4:53:32 AM#60
Originally posted by Yoda_Clone

FWIW -- personal peeve -- it's W-H-I-N-I-N-G, not W-H-I-N-G-I-N-G.  No "G".  You don't "whinge", you "whine".  This is as bad as they're-there-their and too-to-two...  Didn't any gamers ever take English class?  How did you graduate high school?  I know the Anerican education system has gone to hell in the last 40 years and the Internet has made things worse, but how do you expect to be taken seriously on a forum if you can't write coherently?

Sorry... needed to get that off my chest.  "Whinging" just makes me grit my teeth...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/WHINGE?s=t

Were you under the impression everyone speaking English comes from America? What was it about the American education system going to hell? :P 

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