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General Discussion  » Is it time for Zen to reboot this game?

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78 posts found
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 16214

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

7/03/14 1:42:14 PM#41
Originally posted by waxmask
The next TES should be a normal TES game, but now with multiplay (6players max) options that are Module driven like the Early Never Winter did. How cool would a TES game be if there was floating a Dungeon Master above you throwing in all sorts of stuff at you?

If Todd Howard is still the show-runner this time around, I wouldn't heighten my expectations for such features, he seemed to feel such focus would detract from the whole. I can't really blame him there either, as I think he's right.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4567

7/03/14 1:43:03 PM#42
Originally posted by waxmask
The next TES should be a normal TES game, but now with multiplay (6players max) options that are Module driven like the Early Never Winter did. How cool would a TES game be if there was floating a Dungeon Master above you throwing in all sorts of stuff at you?

I think it's almost a given that most future "single player" RPGs will have an online co-op component. Things are definitely trending that way.

 

I just picked up Divinity - Original Sin earlier this week on Steam and it has co-op play. It's also very D&D-like in its depth of abilities and retro Neverwinter Nights / Baldur's Gate-like turned based system, although not following official D&D rules. A great little game I'd recommend to everyone.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 16214

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

7/03/14 1:45:23 PM#43
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by waxmask
The next TES should be a normal TES game, but now with multiplay (6players max) options that are Module driven like the Early Never Winter did. How cool would a TES game be if there was floating a Dungeon Master above you throwing in all sorts of stuff at you?

I think it's almost a given that most future "single player" RPGs will have an online co-op component. Things are definitely trending that way.

 

I just picked up Divinity - Original Sin earlier this week on Steam and it has co-op play. It's also very D&D-like in its depth of abilities and retro Neverwinter Nights / Baldur's Gate-like turned based system, although not following official D&D rules. A great little game I'd recommend to everyone.

Definitely my next purchase.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Joejc7135

Novice Member

Joined: 5/06/13
Posts: 220

7/03/14 1:48:13 PM#44
Honestly ESO is the worst mmo I have ever played in my life. If you guys want to do the right thing, scrape this piece of shit off your shoe and move on.  Well that's what the smart ones will do. The people grinding vet levels opted to scrape it off and then eat it. I honestly don't understand why you would subject yourself to that vet grind. If you somehow convinced yourself it's "fun" then might I suggest the delicous tootsie rolls that can be found in your local cat box.
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 16214

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

7/03/14 1:50:31 PM#45
Originally posted by Joejc7135
Honestly ESO is the worst mmo I have ever played in my life. If you guys want to do the right thing, scrape this piece of shit off your shoe and move on.  Well that's what the smart ones will do. The people grinding vet levels opted to scrape it off and then eat it. I honestly don't understand why you would subject yourself to that vet grind. If you somehow convinced yourself it's "fun" then might I suggest the delicous tootsie rolls that can be found in your local cat box.

The smart ones realize tastes differ and goals differ, can't expect everyone to feel as you do.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  7imelord

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/04
Posts: 2987

C64 Cracked Warez Intros FTW

7/03/14 2:05:50 PM#46

Still way to early to throw in the towel for ESO, we seen many mmo's in the last decade that players wanted to put on the chopping block and frankly the doom and gloom posts get very old quickly.

The only reboot that ESO may possibly go though is the F2P routine as well as many mmo's that are released now, however I don't see ESO going to free to play or choice of subscription base like SWTOR anytime this year.

But like many, if ESO was a sandbox game like AC or SWG back in the days with todays technology, I believe you would have had a winner. The game has a lot going for it, but still falls short on what a MMORPG is suppose to be all about.

  Reklaw

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6176

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

7/03/14 2:28:11 PM#47
Originally posted by battlesam
Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.

I never believed the bugs or the bots were that serious. Those problems are easily fixable. The bigger problem, the one which caused the mass exodus is a design issue, imo.

Can a game company counter players who get to cap level within a month even if the amount of calculated content is much higher yet ignored by the masses who enter a new released MMORPG?

In a nutshell the population spreads out so thinly by Vet time that the impetus for playing disappears. Certainly the “solo” aspect to the game compounds that problem, but in the world of MMO’s low population is king…of death. Maybe the game world in ESO and Cyrodill in particular is too big.
The overal population I see, especially when entering banks is players level 15-40 and here and there some VR's, this of course due to me being still fearly low level with my highest character now 24. Atleast around these levels I do not notice any player loss but also have to admit to not have stepped into Cyrodill since release and only ventured there in beta and havn't been into any guild. Though I always expect allot of players will leave after the first month or 2.


It seems to me the game was originally built with Cyrodill functioning as the main end game. (Certainly the itemization in the game leads one to that conclusion.) The decision to access the other realms and force Vet levels on everyone changed the nature of the game from pvp to pve. The pve was thus tacked on to a pvp game. (At least ESO can claim that as a first, dubious as it is).
As said not touced PVP since release, I am going to but currently enjoying the PVE portion of the game.


I think Vet levels put an unexpected pve barrier between level 50 and Cyrodill effectively reducing the subscription population. So, is character progression necessary in the secondary realms? Can’t the other factions be a place of slightly harder dungeons or something?
Still am wondering why players didn't get into pvp from level 10 again only from beta experiance there is more then zerg in Cyrodill.

The second thing on my mind is the lack of connections between places in the game world. WOW had linear progression zone by zone crap, but at least they had two continents which you continuously visited, and the major cities, Orgrimmar in my case, was a hub. Who the *** goes to Mournhold? But more importantly this zone by zone levelling is passé. Why can’t you do some level 1-20 quests in all the zones and then go back and forth? That would have made the most sense especially in a game like ESO. For example as a level 15 EP main story quest you travel to Auridon to assassinate someone.
So far in the maincity's I have visited it seems many revisit thos city's allot, of course in the end mostly for the banks. But level scaling so you can explore anywhere might sound tempting but in a MMORPG setting it will rather become boring as it doesn't give's the PVE player something to really look forward to in my opinion.


I do believe this is the nicest game world I’ve seen and maybe, just maybe, the trend for these large companies to spend a ton of money on MMORPG game development only to see an epic fail is changing. Maybe it’s build it and then after 4-5 months close, rework, and reboot.

Cheers

But in the end I don't want this game to reboot, I see absolute no reason why apart from the complaints I am reading which I am not experiancing them as they seem to. Maybe it's because I like to take my time when I play a MMORPG and ESO grants me a certain freedom and allows me to take my time, thought that was something that ES players would liked instead I read ES players reach VR level within a month.

Many things ES related that many felt missing from ESO seems to be in the works (sure would have been nice to have it all in from release) but in the works anyway's. Many early release issue's like bots and other bugs seem to been fixed for the most part. Personaly havn't experianed any bot or bug the last few weeks and a month +.

  Destai

Elite Member

Joined: 8/31/09
Posts: 558

7/03/14 3:09:45 PM#48
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Iselin

 

As they continue to say in this thread, what they wanted all along was Skyrim+ co-op and nothing short of that would have satisfied them. But that's a different game altogether that they never set-out to make. They should have just said that's not the game they were making, taken their lumps and carried on. Their decision to throw them a bone with more PVE content didn't help anything and just confused the game's focus..

I don't think they threw many bones at all.

PvE end game with Adventure Zones was discussed from the very start. Additionally, it seems to take a lot of resources to create so it's not really a "bone" as a major undertaking.

Yeah, I'm not seeing where they really threw a bone at us whatsoever. For me, nothing short of coop Tamriel would have satisfied me. They knew they were walking a thin line with this game, which that's fine. For those that enjoy this, good on you. What I'm concerned about is that the less than stellar reception of ESO may diminish the chance of getting the game I actually want. I also worry that Zeni/Beth will decree that no Elder Scrolls game will feature multiplayer because they don't want to have even more competition with their MMO. This creates a very dire impetus for a reboot should those assumption be correct. Of course, they could just be speculation. Time will tell, but seems like games are getting less and less in depth as time goes on.

  ohioastro

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/07/14
Posts: 423

7/03/14 6:48:09 PM#49

Co-op play adds a lot of overhead to a single-player game.  There is the matter of phasing (whose world are we in, anyhow?  Whose decisions "count" for what the world looks like?)  There is the matter of difficulty - balancing single and multiple player events is non-trivial.  And there is the matter of yield - if I'm a single-player gamer, would I rather have more cool things for me to do, or would I rather have them invest a ton of resources into a feature that I won't use?  I just don't think that the ES model is a good one for co-op play.  That works a lot better for games with either 1) a very linear game-play experience or 2) low threshold hop-in-hop-out events, like first person shooters.

  Ratero

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 324

7/03/14 8:27:04 PM#50
Originally posted by Destai
No, it's time for Bethesda to make an Elder Scrolls 6 that's all of Tamriel with a multiplayer mode. That's what many people want - Skyrim/Oblivion/etc. with friends, not a DAOC style game. 

Truth!  They should have never created an Elder Scrolls Game in the form of DAOC.

Edit... oops looked liked I was all for the way they created the game... did not mean to do so.  Always proof read. :)

Ratero.

  velexie

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/14
Posts: 28

7/04/14 4:16:55 AM#51
This game needs a good reboot. Or enema, whatever. As it stands, this "MMO" pseudo RPG will be the death of the Elder Scrolls franchise, as Bethesda / Zenimax sinks more and more money into a bottomless pit to try and make a fun game that hasn't even come out on consoles yet. At this rate, I don't really expect an ESO 6 any more than I expect a Half Life 3. Difference being Steam excelled in other areas, and Bethesda/Zenimax is sinking in a lost cause.
  DarthRaiden

Novice Member

Joined: 11/20/05
Posts: 4547

i make art,
till someone dies.

Forum Terrorist

7/04/14 5:38:18 AM#52

Its the first themepark MMORPG i can enjoy playing. Even when i notice the lack of sandbox and the overlay feeling of "this isnt a full MMORPG" i can't stop enjoying the gameplay so far. 

It puzzles me...

But no, Zenimax is on something here. They should continue make this game more and more sandboxy and MMORPG'ish but NO to reboot, because they created a gem so far.

-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

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  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1577

7/04/14 7:39:36 AM#53

Reboot?

Of the game - neither feasible nor necessary. Add stuff - sure; but lots of development meetings will have been held to make the game what it is. Like it or not it is what it is.

Of the business model - maybe they can but will they?

On PC it will be tough. You don't get the same market penetration second time around. Case in point: SWTOR got fewer f2p accounts in the 6 months after going f2p than they sold full priced boxes in the 6 months after launch. Maybe they could re-launch via Steam though - probably has a chance.

On console - hasn't been a console launch of course but even this will be impacted by what has gone before. Should be possible though. And they can make use of Sony's and Microsoft's sales channels.

And then?

DLC solo content and DLC co-op maps / dungeons / missions. GW1 style rather than GW2 (no cash shop).

 

  ChicagoCub

Novice Member

Joined: 10/14/06
Posts: 308

7/04/14 7:48:15 AM#54
Originally posted by Reizla
Originally posted by battlesam
Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.
 

Stopped reading there...

ESO is totally different than those 3 you name. ESO was build to be a PvE MMO all around questing, while the ones you played are made with PvP in mind.

Not even remotely true.  I'd go so far as to say patently false.  WoW was not designed with PvP in mind in any way, shape, or form.  It was designed as a PvE raid game.  Period.

As for ESO they touted, marketed, and hyped their PvP features almost from its announcement.  The idea was for players to battle over Cyrodil and choose a new emperor.

Id' say ESO was designed as a PvP game just as much as WAR and DAoC.

  TheQuietGamer

Novice Member

Joined: 6/02/14
Posts: 330

7/04/14 7:58:20 AM#55
They released the game too early with too many bugs and exploits.  No doubt this was due to pressure from their funders.  When will dev's learn that their product needs to be in a functioning state at release or they will hemorrhage players in the first month.  It amazes me that given the repeated instances of this happening dev's still release buggy shit.  
  immodium

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1438

7/04/14 8:21:33 AM#56
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by waxmask
The next TES should be a normal TES game, but now with multiplay (6players max) options that are Module driven like the Early Never Winter did. How cool would a TES game be if there was floating a Dungeon Master above you throwing in all sorts of stuff at you?

If Todd Howard is still the show-runner this time around, I wouldn't heighten my expectations for such features, he seemed to feel such focus would detract from the whole. I can't really blame him there either, as I think he's right.

I agree. Todd is all about the whole solo RPG experience.

I doubt they will design specific parts of the solo experience with co-op in mind. They'll leave that to the modders to do IMO.

 

  loulaki

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/20/11
Posts: 861

7/04/14 9:09:30 AM#57
Originally posted by OminousDawn
Originally posted by Reizla
Originally posted by battlesam
Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.
 

Stopped reading there...

ESO is totally different than those 3 you name. ESO was build to be a PvE MMO all around questing, while the ones you played are made with PvP in mind.

 

Judging by his post, he clearly believes its the other way around.

These PvP'ers will be the death of MMORPG's.  They don't understand them, and as such, do nothing but complain about them.

It's so bad, I had to make a sig about it.

 assuming generalizations its not good.

 the repliers forgot that the developers didnt allowed players from each faction to visit the PvE content of other factions and initially everyone would meet each other at the Cyrodril. But community was against it, and they well done, so the developers at the end allowed players to visit other faction's PvE content but they added also the Vet system.

 ESO was NOT focused to become a pveMMO, thats why they made a HUGE CENTRAL map for PvP...

 also from the first MMOs there is the pvp open world element, without it there is no MMO, its called a coop game. If there are not the basic elements of building a society, which means the availability to become a criminal with all its consequences, then you dont have a MassiveMultiplayOnlineRolePlayGame. These are fundamental principles which dont represent FPS alaCounterStrike but MMOworlds alaUltimaOnline.

  Ratero

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 324

7/04/14 9:54:11 AM#58
Originally posted by loulaki
Originally posted by OminousDawn
Originally posted by Reizla
Originally posted by battlesam
Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.
 

Stopped reading there...

ESO is totally different than those 3 you name. ESO was build to be a PvE MMO all around questing, while the ones you played are made with PvP in mind.

 

Judging by his post, he clearly believes its the other way around.

These PvP'ers will be the death of MMORPG's.  They don't understand them, and as such, do nothing but complain about them.

It's so bad, I had to make a sig about it.

 assuming generalizations its not good.

 the repliers forgot that the developers didnt allowed players from each faction to visit the PvE content of other factions and initially everyone would meet each other at the Cyrodril. But community was against it, and they well done, so the developers at the end allowed players to visit other faction's PvE content but they added also the Vet system.

 ESO was NOT focused to become a pveMMO, thats why they made a HUGE CENTRAL map for PvP...   And in my opinion this is where the Dev's failed.  They had a pipe-dream to recreate DAOC utilizing the wealth of history and player base of the Elder Scrolls games which does not revolve around PvP.  If they were dead set on implementing PvP then they should have done it on a much smaller scale and scaled up the PvE side.  As it is now I don't think ESO will last to long and that is a shame.

 also from the first MMOs there is the pvp open world element, without it there is no MMO, its called a coop game. If there are not the basic elements of building a society, which means the availability to become a criminal with all its consequences, then you dont have a MassiveMultiplayOnlineRolePlayGame. These are fundamental principles which dont represent FPS alaCounterStrike but MMOworlds alaUltimaOnline.   If you think that "the basic elements of building a society" is to "become a criminal" and if you can't do that then you do not have a proper MMO then I do not want any part of a game of that sort.  For me those are "not" Fundamental principles at all, it is catering to a small percentage of the gaming communities and when it is implemented... the game dies.

Ratero.

  Paradigm68

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/11
Posts: 880

7/04/14 10:03:10 AM#59
Originally posted by Destai
No, it's time for Bethesda to make an Elder Scrolls 6 that's all of Tamriel with a multiplayer mode. That's what many people want - Skyrim/Oblivion/etc. with friends, not a DAOC style game. 

Yes

  Paradigm68

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/11
Posts: 880

7/04/14 10:04:58 AM#60
Originally posted by versulas
Originally posted by Destai
No, it's time for Bethesda to make an Elder Scrolls 6 that's all of Tamriel with a multiplayer mode. That's what many people want - Skyrim/Oblivion/etc. with friends, not a DAOC style game. 

It'll come... and when #6 releases we'll whine and moan about when #7 is going to release and so on down the line--while any attempts made by them to branch out and capture a new consumer base they don't already decidedly own will be met with scorn and rage about how they're not catering to us fast enough. 

That's just how gamers are, we won't ever be satisfied, but I can't fault them for making the effort to invest in a side project that's ongoing and different, even if I prefer a bit more sand to play with.

I don't remember that happening when Skyrim came out.

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