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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Is it time for Zen to reboot this game?

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78 posts found
  Arglebargle

Elite Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 1179

7/03/14 5:13:00 AM#21
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Arglebargle
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by flizzer
I really hope Bethesda makes another Elder Scrolls game.  I know they are not involved in ESO, but at this point it is unclear if we ever will see another Elder Scrolls title.

Why would we not see a continuation of a franchise that has garnered more fame from each release to the next? Skyrim sold really well, open world gaming is bigger than ever in terms of AAA efforts, why would we not see another TES game? It is Bethesda's chief property...

They are focused on a new Fallout right now, but I am sure a small team is prepping for the next TES game to follow.

They made Skyrim while they made Fallout 3 if I recall correctly, at least there is overlap in said games development cycle. With the property as well as company being bigger than ever I wouldn't be surprised if they've seen some expansion as far as team members go.  I agree though I wouldn't expect a NEW TES until a good while after FO4 is finished. My guess is they use Skyrim's tech for FO and develop new tech beside it to use for a new TES. They'll have to compete with the WItcher 3 so I expect them to go even bigger in terms of tech and mechanics..

That sounds real accurate.   Will be interesting to see whether they can add Co-op to it (either F4 or TES), as that's what tons of fans would prefer.

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2975

7/03/14 8:33:37 AM#22
Originally posted by flizzer
I really hope Bethesda makes another Elder Scrolls game.  I know they are not involved in ESO, but at this point it is unclear if we ever will see another Elder Scrolls title.

What? There will be TES 6 and that is clear. They are not stopping with their most popular franchise to fuel just one MMO. MMOs are niche games. The Elder Scrolls series games are not. ESO was not even made by the same developer as TES 1-5. 

What is really sad though is that Blizzard on the other hand decided to end one of the best game series. Warcraft IV will be an instant hit if it was ever to be released.

Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 6404

7/03/14 8:40:46 AM#23
Originally posted by inemosz
Elder Scrolls Online : The Phases Reborn

My personal favorite is

Elder Staves Online: Light Armor for all

(not sure if this changed but my entire guild was light armor/destro staff at launch regardless of build/class)

 

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4107

7/03/14 10:54:32 AM#24
Originally posted by battlesam



It seems to me the game was originally built with Cyrodill functioning as the main end game. (Certainly the itemization in the game leads one to that conclusion.) The decision to access the other realms and force Vet levels on everyone changed the nature of the game from pvp to pve. The pve was thus tacked on to a pvp game. (At least ESO can claim that as a first, dubious as it is).

 

True.

 

Anyone who followed the development of the game over the past couple of years knows this. The VR levels in particular were a stop-gap measure to provide alternate end-game PVE play while they developed true post-50 content. And it feels tacked on.

 

They should have spent more time developing the one feature that would have made the game unique: the gigantic PVP/PVE dungeon in the middle of Cyrodiil -- the Imperial City -  similar to DAOC's Darkness Falls which we all know is coming.

 

That, in addition to 3 realm RVR, was the other outstanding DAOC feature. Once the decision was made to make a TES MMO based on DAOC game play, they should have focused more resources on that and included it at launch.

 

The "purist" TES fans who have complained about the PVP focus of ESO might not have liked it much. But then again they don't like it much as it is despite all of ZOS' efforts to change focus midstream to cater to that PVE-only crowd.

 

As they continue to say in this thread, what they wanted all along was Skyrim+ co-op and nothing short of that would have satisfied them. But that's a different game altogether that they never set-out to make. They should have just said that's not the game they were making, taken their lumps and carried on. Their decision to throw them a bone with more PVE content didn't help anything and just confused the game's focus..

  Doogiehowser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1954

7/03/14 10:58:34 AM#25
Just turn into P2P/F2P hybrid model. No need to reboot.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17601

7/03/14 11:02:49 AM#26
Originally posted by OminousDawn
Originally posted by Reizla
Originally posted by battlesam
Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.
 

Stopped reading there...

ESO is totally different than those 3 you name. ESO was build to be a PvE MMO all around questing, while the ones you played are made with PvP in mind.

 

Judging by his post, he clearly believes its the other way around.

These PvP'ers will be the death of MMORPG's.  They don't understand them, and as such, do nothing but complain about them.

It's so bad, I had to make a sig about it.

I don't think pvp players will be the death of mmo's.

Having said that "I" would say what was wrong with the OP's post (in my opinion) is this:

Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.

 

When it could have read this way:

 

"Here's my 2c from a long time Elder Scrolls, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblvioin, Skyrim player ..."
  Jaychi72

Novice Member

Joined: 10/24/12
Posts: 69

7/03/14 11:04:13 AM#27

++ for get rid of vet ranks!

 

or omg plz cut the xp points down by more than half! its so ridiculous!

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17601

7/03/14 11:05:46 AM#28
Originally posted by Iselin

 

As they continue to say in this thread, what they wanted all along was Skyrim+ co-op and nothing short of that would have satisfied them. But that's a different game altogether that they never set-out to make. They should have just said that's not the game they were making, taken their lumps and carried on. Their decision to throw them a bone with more PVE content didn't help anything and just confused the game's focus..

I don't think they threw many bones at all.

PvE end game with Adventure Zones was discussed from the very start. Additionally, it seems to take a lot of resources to create so it's not really a "bone" as a major undertaking.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4107

7/03/14 11:09:05 AM#29
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by OminousDawn
Originally posted by Reizla
Originally posted by battlesam
Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.
 

Stopped reading there...

ESO is totally different than those 3 you name. ESO was build to be a PvE MMO all around questing, while the ones you played are made with PvP in mind.

 

Judging by his post, he clearly believes its the other way around.

These PvP'ers will be the death of MMORPG's.  They don't understand them, and as such, do nothing but complain about them.

It's so bad, I had to make a sig about it.

I don't think pvp players will be the death of mmo's.

Having said that "I" would say what was wrong with the OP's post (in my opinion) is this:

Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.

 

When it could have read this way:

 

"Here's my 2c from a long time Elder Scrolls, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblvioin, Skyrim player ..."

I disagree. He stated it correctly.

 

This is an MMO first and a TES game second. That may not be to everyone's liking but at least it's honest.

 

Most of ESO's problems stem from the developers trying to cater to both: designing it as "MMO first" but marketing it as "TES first." 

 

EDIT: as to your other point.... when I say "tacked on" I don't mean true post-50 content and adventure zones are that.

 

The game would feel totally different if end game was adventure zones. Imperial City Dungeon and Cyrodiil PVP. As it is, the VR "other faction" solo questing became to much the focus... and that is a tacked-on stop-gap.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17601

7/03/14 11:10:39 AM#30
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by OminousDawn
Originally posted by Reizla
Originally posted by battlesam
Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.
 

Stopped reading there...

ESO is totally different than those 3 you name. ESO was build to be a PvE MMO all around questing, while the ones you played are made with PvP in mind.

 

Judging by his post, he clearly believes its the other way around.

These PvP'ers will be the death of MMORPG's.  They don't understand them, and as such, do nothing but complain about them.

It's so bad, I had to make a sig about it.

I don't think pvp players will be the death of mmo's.

Having said that "I" would say what was wrong with the OP's post (in my opinion) is this:

Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.

 

When it could have read this way:

 

"Here's my 2c from a long time Elder Scrolls, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblvioin, Skyrim player ..."

I disagree. He stated it correctly.

 

This is an MMO first and a TES game second. That may not be to everyone's liking but at least it's honest.

 

Most of ESO's problems stem from the developers trying to cater to both: designing it as "MMO first" but marketing it as "TES first." 

It being an mmo first doesn't negate the elder scrolls roots any more than it being an "mmo first" supports the direction of Warhammer, WoW or DAoC.

 

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3216

7/03/14 11:15:43 AM#31
The biggest problem is that it's cool to bash the new kid on the block.  It doesn't matter if it is the greatest game since throwing a rock upside someone's head (yay cavemen gaming lol), people are going to hate on it, just to hate on it.  Look at WoW,  everyone hates on WoW, but when they release beta keys for WoD, you get a thread 500 pages long full of people QQ'ing that they didn't get a key lol.
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4107

7/03/14 11:18:53 AM#32
Originally posted by Sovrath
 

It being an mmo first doesn't negate the elder scrolls roots any more than it being an "mmo first" supports the direction of Warhammer, WoW or DAoC.

 

One doesn't negate the other but although the difference may be subtle it's very important. MMOs sink or swim based on their MMO qualities. They are judged and compared against all other MMOs regardless of the IP roots.

 

You may really, really like the gravy enough to be attracted just by the gravy.... but it's still only gravy.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17601

7/03/14 11:27:05 AM#33
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Sovrath
 

It being an mmo first doesn't negate the elder scrolls roots any more than it being an "mmo first" supports the direction of Warhammer, WoW or DAoC.

 

One doesn't negate the other but although the difference may be subtle it's very important. MMOs sink or swim based on their MMO qualities. They are judged and compared against all other MMOs regardless of the IP roots.

 

You may really, really like the gravy enough to be attracted just by the gravy.... but it's still only gravy.

I'll definitely agree with you that "an mmo has to be an mmo".

However, "this mmo" is based off of the Elder Scrolls series. I realize that there are players (OP included) who want the game to be a DAoC/Warhammer successor but really look at the game.

If this game was to be a PvP game the rest of the game would have supported it. I would bet that more effort and money went into creating the pve portion of the game over the pvp portion.

So "sure" the game has to be an mmo but that doesn't mean that it can't better support the Elder Scrolls Component.

As much as I love pvp (and I do love pvp) the pvp in ESO feels shoe horned into the game.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4107

7/03/14 11:42:27 AM#34
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Sovrath
 

It being an mmo first doesn't negate the elder scrolls roots any more than it being an "mmo first" supports the direction of Warhammer, WoW or DAoC.

 

One doesn't negate the other but although the difference may be subtle it's very important. MMOs sink or swim based on their MMO qualities. They are judged and compared against all other MMOs regardless of the IP roots.

 

You may really, really like the gravy enough to be attracted just by the gravy.... but it's still only gravy.

I'll definitely agree with you that "an mmo has to be an mmo".

However, "this mmo" is based off of the Elder Scrolls series. I realize that there are players (OP included) who want the game to be a DAoC/Warhammer successor but really look at the game.

If this game was to be a PvP game the rest of the game would have supported it. I would bet that more effort and money went into creating the pve portion of the game over the pvp portion.

So "sure" the game has to be an mmo but that doesn't mean that it can't better support the Elder Scrolls Component.

As much as I love pvp (and I do love pvp) the pvp in ESO feels shoe horned into the game.

DAOC also had great PVE - especially the huge multi-level open world dungeons. Darkness Falls was just the biggest of them with the added PVP but it was still a place to PVE. This MMO was never meant to be Camelot Unchained which is a much more drastic PVP-only DAOC reboot. PVE was always meant to play a part in ESO... just not this much.

The reason ESO currently feels too PVE-focused is due to the recycling of the other two faction areas as VR content that gives you 3X the PVE questing content. That's triple the original strictly faction-locked design and changes the feel of the purpose of the game dramatically... in addition to being a very unpopular feature when all is said and done.

And I beg to differ, Cyrodiil may not be feature-complete yet (i.e. Imperial City) but it is the central feature. Even the PVE story lines make it clear that the war is the focus of the whole game - it's only the main personal solo story that doesn't concern itself with that.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17601

7/03/14 12:11:06 PM#35
Originally posted by Iselin

And I beg to differ, Cyrodiil may not be feature-complete yet (i.e. Imperial City) but it is the central feature. Even the PVE story lines make it clear that the war is the focus of the whole game - it's only the main personal solo story that doesn't concern itself with that.

Except that you can remove the pvp portion of the game and nothing would change in the pve portion.

Same goes for removing the pve portion.

And does it really make sense to have an entire game with all the resources that went into creating all that voice recorded pve content only to dump players into pvp?

Even in other games there are raids where pve players would be dumped into.

ESO is essentially a Frankenstein's Monster game with two parts tenuously stuck together.

Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying it but the more I play the more it feels like it wasn't well thought out.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4107

7/03/14 1:11:18 PM#36
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Iselin

And I beg to differ, Cyrodiil may not be feature-complete yet (i.e. Imperial City) but it is the central feature. Even the PVE story lines make it clear that the war is the focus of the whole game - it's only the main personal solo story that doesn't concern itself with that.

Except that you can remove the pvp portion of the game and nothing would change in the pve portion.

Same goes for removing the pve portion.

And does it really make sense to have an entire game with all the resources that went into creating all that voice recorded pve content only to dump players into pvp?

Even in other games there are raids where pve players would be dumped into.

ESO is essentially a Frankenstein's Monster game with two parts tenuously stuck together.

Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying it but the more I play the more it feels like it wasn't well thought out.

You could say the same about removing the PVE and the PVP not changing... but that would be CU.

The voice recordings were really just a must for whatever PVE content they had... and there was always meant to be some PVE content. MMOs in 2014 without it stick out like antique sore thumbs.

I think you're looking at the ESO that released and assuming that this was the ESO they had in mind all along. I don't agree with that. The triple questing content was a later addition that gives the game an unintended PVE focus. Remove that and add our own version of Darkness Falls and the PVP focus becomes more clear.

I can certainly agree with you on the Frankenstein comment: the parts are just not coming together very well yet.

And I'm also still enjoying it. I just hope they add the Imperial City soon and make the drudgery of VR questing in the other areas an option for those who want that sort of thing instead of the de-facto mandatory content it currently is.

 

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17601

7/03/14 1:28:07 PM#37
Originally posted by Iselin

I think you're looking at the ESO that released and assuming that this was the ESO they had in mind all along. I don't agree with that. The triple questing content was a later addition that gives the game an unintended PVE focus. Remove that and add our own version of Darkness Falls and the PVP focus becomes more clear.

 

Actually you are probably right on that.

Though I knew the "triple questing" was added later, it didn't occur to me that this weighted the game toward pve.

I still think that their announcement of adventure zones at the start and their only showing pve portions of the game up until the last part of development still takes away the weight of pvp if that is indeed what they wanted.

Now, to be fair, they were touting the three sided war since the start yet not really showing any of it. I always found that suspect.

And again, I still say (though this is an old round and round discussion) that their pinning an elder scrolls game faction pvp combat completely missed the mark for what an elder scrolls mmo could have been.

  waxmask

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/13/06
Posts: 50

7/03/14 1:31:50 PM#38
The next TES should be a normal TES game, but now with multiplay (6players max) options that are Module driven like the Early Never Winter did. How cool would a TES game be if there was floating a Dungeon Master above you throwing in all sorts of stuff at you?
  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

7/03/14 1:36:30 PM#39
Originally posted by waxmask
The next TES should be a normal TES game, but now with multiplay (6players max) options that are Module driven like the Early Never Winter did. How cool would a TES game be if there was floating a Dungeon Master above you throwing in all sorts of stuff at you?

yup...

its ironic that the only game that really did D&D correctly was Neverwinter Nights 1 (not the AOL version).

30+ years of the genre and only one game seemed to understand.

Correlation does not imply causation

  JoeyMMO

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/11
Posts: 1334

To busy playing GW2 to post much around here... *shrug*

7/03/14 1:39:19 PM#40
Originally posted by Reizla
Originally posted by battlesam
Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.
 

Stopped reading there...

ESO is totally different than those 3 you name. ESO was build to be a PvE MMO all around questing, while the ones you played are made with PvP in mind.

If you really stopped reading after the first line, then you should have seriously considered not posting anything for a while, a long while.

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