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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why limited skill bars are a good thing

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220 posts found
  askdaboss

Novice Member

Joined: 9/13/11
Posts: 429

6/13/14 12:47:55 PM#121
Originally posted by xAPOCx

I read your last paragraph... 2 items just to make sure i did not misinterpret it and my statement stands. So much fail. Limiting yourself to a few actions when you have many is lunacy at best. In a fight, do you ask a boxer not to use his uppercut?

Against you/me, yes. He would crush us otherwise (read => skill limitations is good for balance and competition, if you don't care about losing, then ask the boxer to use his uppercut all the way)

Why limit the space one can have skills in place for the situation needed for said skill. All for the sake of "complexity"?

Complexity can stem from other factors than number of skills. In fact, look at GW2 and you have skill interactions between players by the way of areas of effects.

Proper teamwork here is a lot more complex than (say) WoW with more skills.

I would say that as a general rule, limited skillsets make for better skill designs, with more interactions/powers etc. packed in one single skill (that would be spread over several skills otherwise).

Give me a break. Nothing complex about having skills wasting in your skill book while you fighting a mob. Its stupidity.

You would have to use your brain to start the fight differently, playing your current strengths instead of mindlessly pressing the "I win" button for the current encounter/situation. I prefer that, but that's provided the game design allows this too.

  Karahandras

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/08
Posts: 1667

All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing

6/13/14 12:51:15 PM#122
TBH I don't think the current games that are using/going to use limited skills are doing so to add any choice/depth to said game, but are doing so so that they can be played with a controller(usually x-box).
  Naevius

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 319

6/13/14 12:53:54 PM#123

Limiting your skills in any single encounter adds strategy to tactics - not only do you need to know how to use the skills you have, but you need to plan ahead to make sure you have the skills you need.

The design concept goes back to spellcasters in pen and paper D&D, who needed to pick which skills to memorize.

 

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12278

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

6/13/14 1:04:34 PM#124
Originally posted by askdaboss

You would have to use your brain to start the fight differently, playing your current strengths instead of mindlessly pressing the "I win" button for the current encounter/situation. I prefer that, but that's provided the game design allows this too.

Well said. None of these mechanics exist in a vacuum. The preparation and prediction element present in having to choose a subset of one's skills works well for Guild Wars, Wildstar and other games that are designed around it. Plugging it into a game like Vanguard or WOW would diminish the experience in those games.

Turn-based RPGs, older MMOs, MOBAs, TCGs and many other games rely on preparation and prediction to add more depth through meaningful choices on a broader level than just the choices made during the battle. It is one of many ways to go about doing so. 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7735

Logic be damned!

6/13/14 1:12:36 PM#125

I think Diablo 3 did a really, really good job with a limited skill bar setup.

For example, Crusader has 24 total skills, each with 5 varied and distinct Runes.

You can equip 6 at once. 

They also have 18 passive skills, of which you can equip 4.

Though there are a couple of "end-game" builds that are proven mathematically (given the right gear) to be "the best" - the build variety is amazing. You can pretty much run with any decently thought out build that you find fun up through Torment 4 difficulty.

Especially given that you can customize your play style even further with the additional effects and properties you can attain by equipping certain pieces of gear.

Some of these are very powerful, build changers you design everything else around. They are, themselves, almost like another layer of Runes to equip.

And on top of that you have armor sets that have their own Rune-like property and ability changes that can also completely alter a play style.

Also you throw in stat customization via the Paragon system and reforging of stats on gear...

It's very simple on the surface, yet has incredible depth when you add all the layers up. 

Or pretty much "the Blizzard way" through and through.

Now Playing: Destiny

  VonTakala

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/30/11
Posts: 197

Wookiee. Jetpack. Lifeday moomoo. Flying into the SWG sunset on Lok.

6/13/14 1:18:17 PM#126

That's amazing Creslin, skill bars taste great either way and yes 'less is moar'.

3 'thumbs up'!

  Azrile

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/08
Posts: 2615

6/13/14 2:06:30 PM#127
Originally posted by BadSpock

I think Diablo 3 did a really, really good job with a limited skill bar setup.

For example, Crusader has 24 total skills, each with 5 varied and distinct Runes.

You can equip 6 at once. 

They also have 18 passive skills, of which you can equip 4.

Though there are a couple of "end-game" builds that are proven mathematically (given the right gear) to be "the best" - the build variety is amazing. You can pretty much run with any decently thought out build that you find fun up through Torment 4 difficulty.

Especially given that you can customize your play style even further with the additional effects and properties you can attain by equipping certain pieces of gear.

Some of these are very powerful, build changers you design everything else around. They are, themselves, almost like another layer of Runes to equip.

And on top of that you have armor sets that have their own Rune-like property and ability changes that can also completely alter a play style.

Also you throw in stat customization via the Paragon system and reforging of stats on gear...

It's very simple on the surface, yet has incredible depth when you add all the layers up. 

Or pretty much "the Blizzard way" through and through.

Yes, D3 did great..   and yet in 1 hour, you kill 1000 mobs, all exactly the same way.

Nobody is saying you can´t build action RPGs and make them a lot of fun.    Slashing through 1000 zombies is fun with your cleave animation firing every 2 seconds and zombie parts flying everywhere for an hour.

But at the same time, it is equally fun, but in a different way to have dozens of abilities available, and to treat every mob like a chess match where you use certain abilities based on the strengths and weaknesses of that particular mob, and then the next mob might have completely different strengths.  Or even better yet, have your abilities become more or less useful depending on situations within the fight.   No not  ´ apply a bleed which makes mangle hit for 20% more damage´  but more complex and RNG related things where you have to interprete feedback from the game and plan your next attack based on that.   THAT is the part that is sorely missing from ARPGS.   In Diablo, you have your buttons you mash, and  then you have to step out of fire, but other than that, you don´t change anything within an actual fight based on what is happening in that fight.   It is just mindless button mashing.

  Aeonblades

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2123

6/13/14 2:12:47 PM#128
Originally posted by Azrile
Originally posted by BadSpock

I think Diablo 3 did a really, really good job with a limited skill bar setup.

For example, Crusader has 24 total skills, each with 5 varied and distinct Runes.

You can equip 6 at once. 

They also have 18 passive skills, of which you can equip 4.

Though there are a couple of "end-game" builds that are proven mathematically (given the right gear) to be "the best" - the build variety is amazing. You can pretty much run with any decently thought out build that you find fun up through Torment 4 difficulty.

Especially given that you can customize your play style even further with the additional effects and properties you can attain by equipping certain pieces of gear.

Some of these are very powerful, build changers you design everything else around. They are, themselves, almost like another layer of Runes to equip.

And on top of that you have armor sets that have their own Rune-like property and ability changes that can also completely alter a play style.

Also you throw in stat customization via the Paragon system and reforging of stats on gear...

It's very simple on the surface, yet has incredible depth when you add all the layers up. 

Or pretty much "the Blizzard way" through and through.

Yes, D3 did great..   and yet in 1 hour, you kill 1000 mobs, all exactly the same way.

Nobody is saying you can´t build action RPGs and make them a lot of fun.    Slashing through 1000 zombies is fun with your cleave animation firing every 2 seconds and zombie parts flying everywhere for an hour.

But at the same time, it is equally fun, but in a different way to have dozens of abilities available, and to treat every mob like a chess match where you use certain abilities based on the strengths and weaknesses of that particular mob, and then the next mob might have completely different strengths.  Or even better yet, have your abilities become more or less useful depending on situations within the fight.   No not  ´ apply a bleed which makes mangle hit for 20% more damage´  but more complex and RNG related things where you have to interprete feedback from the game and plan your next attack based on that.   THAT is the part that is sorely missing from ARPGS.   In Diablo, you have your buttons you mash, and  then you have to step out of fire, but other than that, you don´t change anything within an actual fight based on what is happening in that fight.   It is just mindless button mashing.

A very strong point and good post imo. D3 does what it's meant to do, but I can't help but feel the game would be better with more strategic fights rather than button mashing. I think that's why I burnt on D3 years before I did on D2. On D2 you could map all your abilities to hotkeys and change them on the fly rather than having to be out of combat and losing buffs etc.

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  xAPOCx

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 891

6/13/14 2:16:52 PM#129
Im sorry but in this, we'll just have to agree to disagree. You will never convince me that having less skills "active" in your hot bar from a plethora of skills you have in your arsenal is a good thing. It would seem that you want to set up your skills before going into battle as a tactic and i want to have access to all mine so i can decide my tactics IN battle.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

 
OP  6/13/14 2:27:58 PM#130
Originally posted by Karahandras
TBH I don't think the current games that are using/going to use limited skills are doing so to add any choice/depth to said game, but are doing so so that they can be played with a controller(usually x-box).

I don't think any of the MMORPGs we've talked about here with LAS have native controller support.  The only way you can play them with a controller is to use a third party tool like xpadder...soooooo yeah invalid argument.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  Aeonblades

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2123

6/13/14 2:30:28 PM#131
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Karahandras
TBH I don't think the current games that are using/going to use limited skills are doing so to add any choice/depth to said game, but are doing so so that they can be played with a controller(usually x-box).

I don't think any of the MMORPGs we've talked about here with LAS have native controller support.  The only way you can play them with a controller is to use a third party tool like xpadder...soooooo yeah invalid argument.

I think you missed his point. The point being, they are designed purposefully easier and with limited action/strategy to accommodate a future console release if the game does well enough to justify it. I think this is the reasoning behind a lot of games that choose a LAS. It's certainly the reason why ESO is limited to so few skills, and I believe it's what GW2 and possibly WildStar have in mind as well. D3 is another example of this. In my opinion the console version is infinitely better because playing it on PC feels like a waste of a keyboard. It's like the LAS is designed with a controller in mind for the future.

 

With a limited controller comes limited options.

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

 
OP  6/13/14 2:36:04 PM#132
Originally posted by xAPOCx
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by xAPOCx

I think your basing your response in assumption that a class can do everything. Tank,Heal,Support,DPS and the like. Thats your problem. Its better to have all the skills available to your class to deal with a variety of situations one might encounter with say a Warrior, Mage, Cleric, Necro, ect.

 

And the tire analogy is in reference to the hot bar space for my classes skills, not having access to every skill for every class.  And i never said anything about 'more specialized skills" I want access to all my skills without having to flip through and spell book, locate and skill, then add it my hot bar, removing another skill, to help me in a random situation, all while fighting the mob(s).

 

Perhaps this is the MOBA mind set. Less is more kinda thinking. Problem is were not talking about MOBAs, were talking about MMORPGS. But since MMOs are going action combat now and moving toward the MOBA play style, maybe im wrong here. who the fuck knows.

First MOBA is a highly successful competitive genre, something MMORPGs aren't. That should say something about the skill required to play each game.

First dont get your panties in a twist. I never said MOBAs were a bad thing now did i? The skill to play said game however is based on the player. So in MOBAs the least amount of skills benefits the MOBA player.

Second unless your class is completely unidimensional you don't get all your class skills in the hotbar.

LOL what! Cant get all my skills on the hot bars? Tell that to my Necro or my Bard in VG.

Third many of the skills are there either as filler due to cooldowns/resource management, ie, crappier versions of the skill you actually want to use, or simply just aren't used in normal situations.

...

I wouldn't play a game with a limited hot bar.

....

 

And now we come to the crux of the issue.  You can't see the benefits of an LAS  game because you have prejudged them and won't even play them.

And really, that is another reason I made this OP.  I feel like most people who are against LAS just don't understand it because they haven't put in the time to understand it.  Just about every argument I see against LAS seems like a misunderstanding, or a nonsensical "realism" argument.

Like "why wouldn't my character be able to use all the skills they know??"  Oh gee, I don't know, probably for the same reason that a mage, no matter how much he tries, just can't pick up that sword.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

 
OP  6/13/14 2:40:50 PM#133
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Karahandras
TBH I don't think the current games that are using/going to use limited skills are doing so to add any choice/depth to said game, but are doing so so that they can be played with a controller(usually x-box).

I don't think any of the MMORPGs we've talked about here with LAS have native controller support.  The only way you can play them with a controller is to use a third party tool like xpadder...soooooo yeah invalid argument.

I think you missed his point. The point being, they are designed purposefully easier and with limited action/strategy to accommodate a future console release if the game does well enough to justify it. I think this is the reasoning behind a lot of games that choose a LAS. It's certainly the reason why ESO is limited to so few skills, and I believe it's what GW2 and possibly WildStar have in mind as well. D3 is another example of this. In my opinion the console version is infinitely better because playing it on PC feels like a waste of a keyboard. It's like the LAS is designed with a controller in mind for the future.

 

With a limited controller comes limited options.

D3 console is a completely different game.  In fact, you can't even play D3 on PC with a controller.  Blizzard stated that they won't add controller support to D3 because it's balanced for KB and mouse.

 

It's a nice conspiracy theory, but there is very little evidence to back it up.  In fact, one of the only Mmorpgs on console, FFIV, does not have an LAS.

 

Oh and just to add, most of the LAS games we've talked about here like Wildstar and GW2, have very PC centric UIs.  Mouse driven inventory, menus, etc.

If an MMORPG comes out with a UI like skyrim, then you may have something.  But saying that a game is conspiring to be on console just because it has LAS, even though everything else is PC centric...is flimsy at best.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  Aeonblades

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2123

6/13/14 2:43:14 PM#134
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Karahandras
TBH I don't think the current games that are using/going to use limited skills are doing so to add any choice/depth to said game, but are doing so so that they can be played with a controller(usually x-box).

I don't think any of the MMORPGs we've talked about here with LAS have native controller support.  The only way you can play them with a controller is to use a third party tool like xpadder...soooooo yeah invalid argument.

I think you missed his point. The point being, they are designed purposefully easier and with limited action/strategy to accommodate a future console release if the game does well enough to justify it. I think this is the reasoning behind a lot of games that choose a LAS. It's certainly the reason why ESO is limited to so few skills, and I believe it's what GW2 and possibly WildStar have in mind as well. D3 is another example of this. In my opinion the console version is infinitely better because playing it on PC feels like a waste of a keyboard. It's like the LAS is designed with a controller in mind for the future.

 

With a limited controller comes limited options.

D3 console is a completely different game.  In fact, you can't even play D3 on PC with a controller.  Blizzard stated that they won't add controller support to D3 because it's balanced for KB and mouse.

 

It's a nice conspiracy theory, but there is very little evidence to back it up.  In fact, one of the only Mmorpgs on console, FFIV, does not have an LAS.

"Conspiracy theory"? Really? I can see this conversation is going nowhere, enjoy your topic created just for sake of trying to start an argument. If you won't at least admit there are pros and cons to both forms of game design, whats the point in even having the discussion?

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

 
OP  6/13/14 2:47:28 PM#135
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Karahandras
TBH I don't think the current games that are using/going to use limited skills are doing so to add any choice/depth to said game, but are doing so so that they can be played with a controller(usually x-box).

I don't think any of the MMORPGs we've talked about here with LAS have native controller support.  The only way you can play them with a controller is to use a third party tool like xpadder...soooooo yeah invalid argument.

I think you missed his point. The point being, they are designed purposefully easier and with limited action/strategy to accommodate a future console release if the game does well enough to justify it. I think this is the reasoning behind a lot of games that choose a LAS. It's certainly the reason why ESO is limited to so few skills, and I believe it's what GW2 and possibly WildStar have in mind as well. D3 is another example of this. In my opinion the console version is infinitely better because playing it on PC feels like a waste of a keyboard. It's like the LAS is designed with a controller in mind for the future.

 

With a limited controller comes limited options.

D3 console is a completely different game.  In fact, you can't even play D3 on PC with a controller.  Blizzard stated that they won't add controller support to D3 because it's balanced for KB and mouse.

 

It's a nice conspiracy theory, but there is very little evidence to back it up.  In fact, one of the only Mmorpgs on console, FFIV, does not have an LAS.

"Conspiracy theory"? Really? I can see this conversation is going nowhere, enjoy your topic created just for sake of trying to start an argument. If you won't at least admit there are pros and cons to both forms of game design, whats the point in even having the discussion?

 Yeah it is a conspiracy theory lol.  You guys are saying that the real reason behind LAS is for a later console launch, when the developer and publisher have said absolutely nothing about this.

So you are theorizing that they are conspiring to do something.  Hence, conspiracy theory.

Also, I think there is a place for games with tons of skills and an unlimited action set.  I just think they aren't good for complex and competitive combat,

Skyrim is a perfect example that another poster brought up.  Skyrim is known for pretty bad combat, but it's still really fun to mess around with all the skills.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19805

6/13/14 2:50:36 PM#136
Originally posted by Azrile
 

Yes, D3 did great..   and yet in 1 hour, you kill 1000 mobs, all exactly the same way.

Nobody is saying you can´t build action RPGs and make them a lot of fun.    Slashing through 1000 zombies is fun with your cleave animation firing every 2 seconds and zombie parts flying everywhere for an hour.

But at the same time, it is equally fun, but in a different way to have dozens of abilities available, and to treat every mob like a chess match where you use certain abilities based on the strengths and weaknesses of that particular mob, and then the next mob might have completely different strengths.  Or even better yet, have your abilities become more or less useful depending on situations within the fight.   No not  ´ apply a bleed which makes mangle hit for 20% more damage´  but more complex and RNG related things where you have to interprete feedback from the game and plan your next attack based on that.   THAT is the part that is sorely missing from ARPGS.   In Diablo, you have your buttons you mash, and  then you have to step out of fire, but other than that, you don´t change anything within an actual fight based on what is happening in that fight.   It is just mindless button mashing.

But in the next hour, you change your build (and i do that often), and you kill the next 1000 mobs in another way. That is why it is a good game ... it has a good meta game to explore build + gear combo. You cannot have this meta game without limitation on skills. So this limit is tied to the success of the D3 system.

At the same time, i am NOT disagreeing with you. And i agree that you CAN have a different kind of fun have dozens of skills available. Helping the player manage the complexity with an intuitive interface will be important, but by no means undoable. You probably don't want to do it in a fast pace actoin RPG like D3 (i am sure Blizz has explicitly play-test and figure  out if you give players 10 skill slot instead of 6, can they use all effective in split seconds), but in a game that the combat is slow down a bit.

In fact, I would compare that to a stealth combat game (i love to play the "panther" style) and figure out HOW to dispatch your enemies in slow and methodological and deliberate ways using the environment and different skills.

 

 

 

  xAPOCx

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 891

6/13/14 3:42:56 PM#137
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by xAPOCx
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by xAPOCx

I think your basing your response in assumption that a class can do everything. Tank,Heal,Support,DPS and the like. Thats your problem. Its better to have all the skills available to your class to deal with a variety of situations one might encounter with say a Warrior, Mage, Cleric, Necro, ect.

 

And the tire analogy is in reference to the hot bar space for my classes skills, not having access to every skill for every class.  And i never said anything about 'more specialized skills" I want access to all my skills without having to flip through and spell book, locate and skill, then add it my hot bar, removing another skill, to help me in a random situation, all while fighting the mob(s).

 

Perhaps this is the MOBA mind set. Less is more kinda thinking. Problem is were not talking about MOBAs, were talking about MMORPGS. But since MMOs are going action combat now and moving toward the MOBA play style, maybe im wrong here. who the fuck knows.

First MOBA is a highly successful competitive genre, something MMORPGs aren't. That should say something about the skill required to play each game.

First dont get your panties in a twist. I never said MOBAs were a bad thing now did i? The skill to play said game however is based on the player. So in MOBAs the least amount of skills benefits the MOBA player.

Second unless your class is completely unidimensional you don't get all your class skills in the hotbar.

LOL what! Cant get all my skills on the hot bars? Tell that to my Necro or my Bard in VG.

Third many of the skills are there either as filler due to cooldowns/resource management, ie, crappier versions of the skill you actually want to use, or simply just aren't used in normal situations.

...

I wouldn't play a game with a limited hot bar.

....

 

And now we come to the crux of the issue.  You can't see the benefits of an LAS  game because you have prejudged them and won't even play them.

And really, that is another reason I made this OP.  I feel like most people who are against LAS just don't understand it because they haven't put in the time to understand it.  Just about every argument I see against LAS seems like a misunderstanding, or a nonsensical "realism" argument.

Like "why wouldn't my character be able to use all the skills they know??"  Oh gee, I don't know, probably for the same reason that a mage, no matter how much he tries, just can't pick up that sword.

You are trying way to hard to make your opinion a fact. And i have played games with LAS. They are called console games. In the post your referencing, i did say "i wouldn't play a game with a limited hot bar".  I meant MMORPGs

And to your last point. Are you kidding me. You are going to equate having access to a classes skills to a mage picking up a sword that cant by design of the game? Just go back to sleep.

 

  xAPOCx

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 891

6/13/14 3:48:30 PM#138
Originally posted by Karahandras
TBH I don't think the current games that are using/going to use limited skills are doing so to add any choice/depth to said game, but are doing so so that they can be played with a controller(usually x-box).

I would argue that the "console style" combat bars are to appeal to the growing number of console players making their way to the MMO world. Halo junkies that need something new. Just my guess.

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6509

"I fight so you don't have to."

6/13/14 3:50:27 PM#139
The only reason they limited the skill bar is to make it console friendly, not for game play reasons and the long ass list the OP made. LOL

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6509

"I fight so you don't have to."

6/13/14 3:53:39 PM#140
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Karahandras
TBH I don't think the current games that are using/going to use limited skills are doing so to add any choice/depth to said game, but are doing so so that they can be played with a controller(usually x-box).

I don't think any of the MMORPGs we've talked about here with LAS have native controller support.  The only way you can play them with a controller is to use a third party tool like xpadder...soooooo yeah invalid argument.

I think you missed his point. The point being, they are designed purposefully easier and with limited action/strategy to accommodate a future console release if the game does well enough to justify it. I think this is the reasoning behind a lot of games that choose a LAS. It's certainly the reason why ESO is limited to so few skills, and I believe it's what GW2 and possibly WildStar have in mind as well. D3 is another example of this. In my opinion the console version is infinitely better because playing it on PC feels like a waste of a keyboard. It's like the LAS is designed with a controller in mind for the future.

 

With a limited controller comes limited options.

D3 console is a completely different game.  In fact, you can't even play D3 on PC with a controller.  Blizzard stated that they won't add controller support to D3 because it's balanced for KB and mouse.

 

It's a nice conspiracy theory, but there is very little evidence to back it up.  In fact, one of the only Mmorpgs on console, FFIV, does not have an LAS.

 

Oh and just to add, most of the LAS games we've talked about here like Wildstar and GW2, have very PC centric UIs.  Mouse driven inventory, menus, etc.

If an MMORPG comes out with a UI like skyrim, then you may have something.  But saying that a game is conspiring to be on console just because it has LAS, even though everything else is PC centric...is flimsy at best.

Conspiracy for something so blatantly obvious. You sure are gullable arent you. Probably one of those that believe whatever the PR people of company says.

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