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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why limited skill bars are a good thing

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220 posts found
  Apraxis

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1509

6/11/14 6:01:28 PM#21
Originally posted by midnitewolf

Totally hate the limited Skill sets.  Honestly they were the entire reason I quite GW2.  I remember telling my friend how dumb it was that I had all these great skills but could only build my toon to be able to react to one situation or another.  The example I used was I might plan on single pulling some MoBs to clear a quest and I could set up a great single target skill set but inevitably there would be a multi-pull situation or I would run into a quest that really required you have your AoE skills slotted and ready to go.  

It basically totally annoyed me that I couldn't "react" fluidly to changing situations as needed or employ different strategies and tactics on the fly based on the situation.   

This is the same reason why I am not playing Wildstar (or one of the reasons) and why I have passed on several games so far.

Also, it isn't very realistic that you would learn a skill but magically "forget" the skill just because it isn't slotted.  I mean I am ex-military and I don't forget how to fire my rifle just because I have my pistol equipped in my hand hehe.  Basically the limited action skill sets take alot of the roleplay out of the character and make it much harder to suspend disbelief and immerse yourself in the game.   I know this isn't important to some people, but I kind of like using my imagination to place myself in my toons shoes so to speak.  That is a huge part of my enjoyment in just about any game I play.

But as a ex-military you know that you can't carry all the time your pistol, your rifle, your grenade launcher, your rocket launcher, your tank, your coppter, adn whatever with you.. usually your are reduced to a few skills, like pistol, knife and rifle.. although you are also trained in grenade launcher, rocket launcher, sniper rifle, full auto, and whatever.

  Fdzzaigl

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/09
Posts: 2160

6/11/14 6:04:01 PM#22
Originally posted by Azrile

It does dumb down the game because it turns every mob into ´mob´ 

I will give two examples of skills that are being ´taken away´...

Lets suppose you are fighting a goblin, and then a skeleton.

With your 6-8 keys, those two mobs are exactly the same (assuming same level).  They both run up to you and whack you with swords.

Now lets add a skill  ´ turn undead´. 

This spell can be used to fear the skeleton for 4 seconds, but not the goblin.

Now these two mobs are completely different in how you fight them.

Now lets add a rock elemental that punches you in the face as it´s main attack.

And now lets add ´disarm´   another skill that is getting taken away when we reduce the game to 8 keys.

That skeleton attacks you, you can turn it ( fear it for 4 seconds)  and then you can disarm it, which reduces the damage it can do to you.

That goblin runs at you, you can disarm it

That rock elemental runs at you, those two skills are useless

Just in that brief example,  You now have 3 mobs which would be exactly the same in your game, but would be completely different if players had those two extra abilities to use.  Yes, there will ALWAYS be players who even if you gave them disarm and turn undead would still cast fireballx8 in the face.  But in a good game, those type of players should always perform worse than players who use all their skills effectively.  If I turn that skeleton and then disarm him, maybe I escape the encountered uninjured, where if you cast fireballx8  you finish at 75% health.

By removing skills, you turn every player in Fireballx8  and you turn that skeleton, goblin and rock elemental into ´mob lvl 12´

 

I will use WOW as an example, even though it has a lot of action bars, they still have dumbed it down

When fighting mobs while leveling, there are two mobs..  have ranged,   does not have ranged.   That is it... everything else is just the graphic used to represent the mob.  You may fight a ranged mob differently than a melee only mob.

As far as your skills.   1-90  I can level any character easily by only using 3 skills.  Nothing about the mob at all changes what keys I press.   I run up to the mob, any mob, and press  123332     mob is dead.   Nothing about the mob, nor nothing the mob does changes what abilities I use and in what order I use them.

that is dumbed down gameplay compared to what I talked about before.

Great points, exactly what I was trying to say above as well.

Originally posted by Apraxis

No, not a good point. His observation is true, that in most modern games every mob is basicly the same. But the assumption that it depends on skill bars and some skills for useable only against mob type b is the problems.

Give Mobs a little bit more advanced AI, give them some skills(like yourself.. just limited skillbar skills lets say 8 different skills for every Mobtype).. combine that.. advanced AI + enough skills for every Mob and you do get a lot of different mobs, and a different feeling of every mob.. without the need to introduce 100 fucking skills for every single mobtype.. which is just another easykill mob b with mobtype b skill. Seriously. No, not a good point.

AI is a different matter entirely.

Give better AI to both the game where you have situational skills and the game that limits your skills to just the "necessary" and the former still requires more thought.

You can only compare these things when you keep the other factors the same. Games with less skillslots don't have the monopoly on better AI, his points stand.

Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  nomotag

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/14
Posts: 102

6/11/14 7:33:13 PM#23

The number of abilities you have is just just that a number. I like to see limited skill sets because I love to see verity in mmos, but it's not as if slapping a limit on how many powers you can equip automatically makes a game more or less chewy. That depends on a lot more factors.

I would like to see actually more exploration with this idea. I don't think I know any game that really limited skill use. I mean like 2 or 3 skills at a time. A little like in a FPS were you have only your two guns and maybe a grenade you can use. (This is actually the way I play STO. I just equip my two weapons and mostly ignore all my other skills. It ends up being rather fun.)

Another bit I have mused about is dead rising. What if your hot bar worked like the inventory of dead rising. Each skill would have limited uses and extra hotbar slots would be gained through leveling and items. More slots would be important because it's not only more options but more raw power as you can carry multiples of your limited powers. (I see the idea working with kind of a mage mmo were players are picking up one use spells from the environment, enemies, other players.)

  Slackker

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/26/04
Posts: 225

6/11/14 10:39:43 PM#24
Originally posted by Dreamo84

I think a lot of people tend to forget that EQ1 had an extremely limited skill bar. In fact if you weren't a caster at all you didn't have any skill bar really. Warriors had like two or three skills to use. It was a pretty basic system and yet some how that was enough for everyone back then.

Actually, in EverQuest you were always able to access your level-granted skills via hotkey. Spells were a different story, with the 8 available slots. Then there was the 50+ disciplines window, IIRC? This also seems to solve the disarm problem above, but would revert back to a skill/spell/disc distinction that people apparently haven't been fans of for the past 10 years.

FWIW I don't think basic things like DIsarm should be a skill that has to be slotted. "Hit something out of someone's hand" isn't an incredible ability. It's something everyone who has ever fought a person with a weapon has considered doing, whereas I've never considered firing a poison arrow that explodes on impact. But hey, I live in the suburbs. Never know what they're doing out in the sticks.

-Slackker

  papabear151

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/12/12
Posts: 98

6/11/14 10:56:38 PM#25

Limited action sets destroy any sense of immersion for me.

 

If i'm a warrior and have 20 abilities and I go into a fight i'm not going to decide that I'm only going to use 8 of those and limit myself from using one of the other 12 just because that wasn't one of the predetermined 8 that I want to use.

 

Then again I don't play MMORPG's to play online arcade action/adventure games, I play mmorpg's to be immersed in virtual worlds. So maybe different playstyles?

  rounner

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/06
Posts: 561

6/11/14 11:13:26 PM#26

I disagree with the premise of the thread because it disregards differing types of skill in play. That is, a twitchy hit box game versus a skill rotation game. Assuming we polarise to only skill rotation games, then the number of available skills and how they are made available (eg weapon swap, cards, different hotbars etc) depends on a few design factors:

 

The level of situational game play (eg repel undead spell only useful against undead)

The role skill differentiation (eg some games deliberately make some roles like healer 'harder' than a pew pew dps)

Chain/response group interactivity (eg like VG where one players attack makes the mob more vulnerable to another players attack)

How much overlap there is between PVE and PVP skills and how big a deal it is to jump from a PVE encounter to PVP

 

Personally though, I think the answers are already out there, we've seen enough different systems to know what we individually like.

  Slackker

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/26/04
Posts: 225

6/12/14 1:17:35 AM#27
Originally posted by rounner

Personally though, I think the answers are already out there, we've seen enough different systems to know what we individually like.

Yep, this. As mentioned, I enjoy making those decisions on which skills or spells to load. However, that doesn't mean I think every game should only allow X number of usable skills at a given time. I don't need every game tailored to me.

If I came across a game I absolutely loved that allowed unlimited skills to be hotkeyed I would decide for myself if it was a big enough deal to keep me from playing. Then again, I'd simply like to come across a new MMO I love in the first place... but that's a different rant entirely.

-Slackker

  rygar218

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/23/09
Posts: 334

6/12/14 1:24:11 AM#28
Originally posted by Azrile

It does dumb down the game because it turns every mob into ´mob´ 

I will give two examples of skills that are being ´taken away´...

Lets suppose you are fighting a goblin, and then a skeleton.

With your 6-8 keys, those two mobs are exactly the same (assuming same level).  They both run up to you and whack you with swords.

Now lets add a skill  ´ turn undead´. 

This spell can be used to fear the skeleton for 4 seconds, but not the goblin.

Now these two mobs are completely different in how you fight them.

Now lets add a rock elemental that punches you in the face as it´s main attack.

And now lets add ´disarm´   another skill that is getting taken away when we reduce the game to 8 keys.

That skeleton attacks you, you can turn it ( fear it for 4 seconds)  and then you can disarm it, which reduces the damage it can do to you.

That goblin runs at you, you can disarm it

That rock elemental runs at you, those two skills are useless

Just in that brief example,  You now have 3 mobs which would be exactly the same in your game, but would be completely different if players had those two extra abilities to use.  Yes, there will ALWAYS be players who even if you gave them disarm and turn undead would still cast fireballx8 in the face.  But in a good game, those type of players should always perform worse than players who use all their skills effectively.  If I turn that skeleton and then disarm him, maybe I escape the encountered uninjured, where if you cast fireballx8  you finish at 75% health.

By removing skills, you turn every player in Fireballx8  and you turn that skeleton, goblin and rock elemental into ´mob lvl 12´

 

I will use WOW as an example, even though it has a lot of action bars, they still have dumbed it down

When fighting mobs while leveling, there are two mobs..  have ranged,   does not have ranged.   That is it... everything else is just the graphic used to represent the mob.  You may fight a ranged mob differently than a melee only mob.

As far as your skills.   1-90  I can level any character easily by only using 3 skills.  Nothing about the mob at all changes what keys I press.   I run up to the mob, any mob, and press  123332     mob is dead.   Nothing about the mob, nor nothing the mob does changes what abilities I use and in what order I use them.

that is dumbed down gameplay compared to what I talked about before.

An excellent post. Couldn't of said it better myself. Classic EQ right there with disarm. Fear undead or hell even invis vs undead or other many spells and /disciplines. 

  Chrisbox

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1628

6/12/14 1:32:00 AM#29

Why limited skill bars a bad thing 

-Less abilities to pay attention to or manage properly in a given fight reducing effort required from the player

-Doesn't make variety at all because there will always be a cookie cutter for pve and pvp that you will choose

-Less complexity due to low number or even non existent amount of non rotational abilities

-Lots of same key spamming in all of those games makes for boring gameplay 

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  askdaboss

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/13/11
Posts: 457

6/12/14 2:36:50 AM#30

I think it boils down to two things:

- Competition/challenge: limited skillbars,

- Immersion/casual fun: unlimited skillbars and number of skills.

 

Limited skill bars are a great thing, particularly for the fact that it makes game designers think a lot more about what skills they want to create (so that they all have some sort of "usefulness").

They are also necessary for a true competitive MMORPG: to limit the number of factors affecting the end result, for balance, etc.

 

For immersion/fun however, it's probably more interesting to be unlimited in skills. Think Elder Scrolls (NOT the online version!) and their spells. The light/nightvision/breath underwater/levitate spells have nothing to bring in a competitive environment, as they could create massive imbalances.

 

This raises another question though... I am wondering if the graal of "The Perfect Equilibrium" (i.e. perfect skill balance) that MMORPGs strive to attain is worth pursuing. My experience is that buggy and imbalanced games (often at release) tend to be more fun - and bring fonder memories - than mathematically flawless ones (that feel a bit cold).

  timtrack

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 415

6/12/14 3:10:28 AM#31

I'm a bit of a fan of both sides here. I do enjoy a complex system with many options and reactive abilities such as the skeleton/goblin scenario. However, i'm not as "hardcore" as i used to be and i don't play nearly as much these days. I just don't have the time. For that reason i enjoy the limited skill-sets as well, simply because i can be AFK for a week or a month and it will only take me a couple of minutes to get back in to the action. With more complex games it could take hours to get back in to your old keybindings and setting the muscle memory for that Fear Undead reactive skill you had on shift-F5. And maybe i only had 3 hours to play that week, and i had to spend them "learning" my game again.

  blackcat35

Novice Member

Joined: 2/05/07
Posts: 479

Developers of MMORPGS nerf us today so they can sell us tommorow what we had yesterday.

6/12/14 5:05:49 AM#32
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Creslin321

It seems like most MMORPGs nowadays are going with the concept of the "limited skill bar" wherein you might have tons of skills you can choose from, but you can only have a select few (6-12ish) on your bar to use in combat at any given time.  GW1/GW2, ESO, and Wildstar are designed like this; and even EQ Next will use this concept.

Yet, despite the apparenty popularity of this design with developers, I see so many people here complain about the limited skill bar.  Saying things like it "dumbs down" the game, or makes combat worse/less-varied.

Well my friends, I think you're wrong.  I think that limited skill bars are (usually) a very good thing for a game, and here are a few reasons why:

1.  Build Variety:  Imagine you have a game where each character has 20 skills, and can have all of them on their bar.  How many different skill builds are there for this character?  Answer is pretty easy here one.  Now imagine a game where each character has 20 skills, but can only choose 10 to be on their bar.  How many different skill builds now?  The answer is 184,756.  True, most of these probably are not optimal or are very similar to others...but even if only one percent of these builds are viable, that's still over a THOUSAND different ways you can choose to build your character.

I know I've spent hours just theorycrafting different builds, and agonizing over what skill goes in that last slot.  You just don't get this kind of investment in your character's build from a game that lets you put all your skills on the bar at the same time.

 

2.  More Interesting/Versatile Skills:  I think that limiting the skill bar really forces both players and developers to be more creative with how they use/create skills, and this can create a really interesting combat dynamic in the game.  For example, the spellslinger's blink ability in wildstar teleports them forward a fairly short distance and stuns anything they blink through.  So in effect this one ability functions as:  a chase, an escape, or an offensive/defensive stun. 

And remember, all this utility is on the SAME cooldown.  This really makes you consider how you want to use this ability because if you use it one way, you sacrifice the other uses of it.  For example, if I use it to initiate combat on a player with a stun...then I'm not going to be able to use it to escape if things go poorly, and vice versa.

 

3.  No "Macroable" Skills:  In games with MASSIVE skill bars like Rift, macros that just basically shot skills off in a sequence with one button were very common.  The reason they were common was because there was essentially one skill rotation that was optimal under just about any circumstance.  So instead of pressing 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9; players would just press 1,1,1,1,1....and get the same effect.  So in effect, that massive skill bar gets reduced to just a few buttons because so many of the skills are always fired in the same sequence and there is never any reason to deviate from that.

This is definitely not so in a limited skill bar game.  Like I mentioned earlier, a lot of skills in these games are multi-purpose, and trying to force them into a rotation is going to really screw you over.

GW2, GW1, DDO, all prove you wrong on this dude.

ddo allows you to have multiple skill bars at the same time.  As you get higher level DDO makes it rather important for spell casters to slot there spells, which as you get higher can number in 20 to 30 spells.  That requires you to place them on multiple skill bars, and to go to different skill bars using shift 1 thru 9 to get to which bar you want to use before using the skill.

I always thought that limited skill bar was kind of lame since I saw it in Everquest.

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The game is dead not, this game is good we make it and Romania Tv give it 5 goat heads, this is good rating for game.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

 
OP  6/12/14 9:06:00 AM#33
Originally posted by rygar218
Originally posted by Azrile

It does dumb down the game because it turns every mob into ´mob´ 

I will give two examples of skills that are being ´taken away´...

Lets suppose you are fighting a goblin, and then a skeleton.

With your 6-8 keys, those two mobs are exactly the same (assuming same level).  They both run up to you and whack you with swords.

Now lets add a skill  ´ turn undead´. 

This spell can be used to fear the skeleton for 4 seconds, but not the goblin.

Now these two mobs are completely different in how you fight them.

Now lets add a rock elemental that punches you in the face as it´s main attack.

And now lets add ´disarm´   another skill that is getting taken away when we reduce the game to 8 keys.

That skeleton attacks you, you can turn it ( fear it for 4 seconds)  and then you can disarm it, which reduces the damage it can do to you.

That goblin runs at you, you can disarm it

That rock elemental runs at you, those two skills are useless

Just in that brief example,  You now have 3 mobs which would be exactly the same in your game, but would be completely different if players had those two extra abilities to use.  Yes, there will ALWAYS be players who even if you gave them disarm and turn undead would still cast fireballx8 in the face.  But in a good game, those type of players should always perform worse than players who use all their skills effectively.  If I turn that skeleton and then disarm him, maybe I escape the encountered uninjured, where if you cast fireballx8  you finish at 75% health.

By removing skills, you turn every player in Fireballx8  and you turn that skeleton, goblin and rock elemental into ´mob lvl 12´

 

I will use WOW as an example, even though it has a lot of action bars, they still have dumbed it down

When fighting mobs while leveling, there are two mobs..  have ranged,   does not have ranged.   That is it... everything else is just the graphic used to represent the mob.  You may fight a ranged mob differently than a melee only mob.

As far as your skills.   1-90  I can level any character easily by only using 3 skills.  Nothing about the mob at all changes what keys I press.   I run up to the mob, any mob, and press  123332     mob is dead.   Nothing about the mob, nor nothing the mob does changes what abilities I use and in what order I use them.

that is dumbed down gameplay compared to what I talked about before.

An excellent post. Couldn't of said it better myself. Classic EQ right there with disarm. Fear undead or hell even invis vs undead or other many spells and /disciplines. 

Actually, it's ideas like this that made me create this OP in the first place.  No one will argue that they want less mob variety.  But there is really no correlation between mob variety and a limited skill bar.  So this is a straw man argument.

In fact BOTH examples given above work AGAINST this argument.  WoW is given as an example of a game with no mob variety, yet is does not have a limited skill bar.  And Everquest is given as an example of a game with lots of mob variety, yet it DOES have a limited skill bar.

So I mean, you guys have basically worked to invalidate your own argument ;). 

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  MsPtibiscuit

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/24/14
Posts: 160

6/12/14 9:55:19 AM#34

GW is the only game that offers a good LAS system, havn't played TSW though.

Rest is shit (specially ESO)

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5517

6/12/14 9:56:11 AM#35
Originally posted by Apraxis
Originally posted by midnitewolf

Totally hate the limited Skill sets.  Honestly they were the entire reason I quite GW2.  I remember telling my friend how dumb it was that I had all these great skills but could only build my toon to be able to react to one situation or another.  The example I used was I might plan on single pulling some MoBs to clear a quest and I could set up a great single target skill set but inevitably there would be a multi-pull situation or I would run into a quest that really required you have your AoE skills slotted and ready to go.  

It basically totally annoyed me that I couldn't "react" fluidly to changing situations as needed or employ different strategies and tactics on the fly based on the situation.   

This is the same reason why I am not playing Wildstar (or one of the reasons) and why I have passed on several games so far.

Also, it isn't very realistic that you would learn a skill but magically "forget" the skill just because it isn't slotted.  I mean I am ex-military and I don't forget how to fire my rifle just because I have my pistol equipped in my hand hehe.  Basically the limited action skill sets take alot of the roleplay out of the character and make it much harder to suspend disbelief and immerse yourself in the game.   I know this isn't important to some people, but I kind of like using my imagination to place myself in my toons shoes so to speak.  That is a huge part of my enjoyment in just about any game I play.

But as a ex-military you know that you can't carry all the time your pistol, your rifle, your grenade launcher, your rocket launcher, your tank, your coppter, adn whatever with you.. usually your are reduced to a few skills, like pistol, knife and rifle.. although you are also trained in grenade launcher, rocket launcher, sniper rifle, full auto, and whatever.

your confusing 'equipment' with skills, just using a rifle alone, there are numerous uses, often 'positional' prone being optimal for long range 'aimed' again, do you aim for head, body, or even some other body part (assuming your skilled enough to do so) single shots, or 'burst' although that varies on the 'rifle' some of the older assault rifles just could not be used in 'burst mode' too much recoil. for instance a 'prone' aimed shot could take longer to do whereas a crouched aimed shot at a target at medium range instead of long, would be much quicker, to simulate that you would need different types of attack, quite a few of them. The more realistic you tried to make it, the more skill types you would have to create. By limiting it just to half a dozen skills for a particular weapon, is simplifying things, and not really trying to simulate it at all accurately, or to put it another way, its been dumbed down. Also just because a pistol has a much less effective range, does not mean it only has a couple of ways of being used. But the short answer, the fewer skills associated with a weapon type, the less realistic or dumbed down the results.

  Tbau

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/07/14
Posts: 407

6/12/14 10:04:22 AM#36

Less is more led to the creation of the MOBA......anything that leads to a MOBA is an abomination when it comes to MMORPGs.

How about we call them what they are instead? few skills = action MMORPGs and many skills = MMORPGs.

I prefer depth and options over simplified gameplay. There is no reason to take a class that has 100 possible skills to use and limit them to 6-8 at a time, it takes away what a class can do by limiting their roles at one time. This is also done to hide poor game design and force people into ordered groups....another flawed game design.

And no, games like GW1 and their elk do not stand up to games like EQ1, AC1, SWG, DaoC when it comes to combat.....also really loved the part where you say skills cant be macro'ed yet used TESO as an example, a game with as many BOTS as actual players.

  Eronakis

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/17/08
Posts: 2006

6/12/14 10:09:06 AM#37

I couldn't agree more OP.

 

Limited slots on a hot bar is a great thing. It creates a diverse class. For an example in EQ my wizard could just be as affective as the other but we may have several different spells "memmed". I would rather have class builds based off their arsenal and what skills/spells they can have active on their hot bar rather than talent trees or other class builds.

 

I believe to have true freedom within a class you don't bottleneck the players into talent trees or points of anything of those types of class builds. What you do is simply allow the player to have full freedom of their class while they get to create different hot/skill bar sets for different situational circumstances based on their style of player. So you can have 2 wizards. One's play style is burst damage while the other is crit damage and yet both are very effective.

 

Excellent post OP

  Tbau

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/07/14
Posts: 407

6/12/14 10:10:17 AM#38
Originally posted by Creslin321

Actually, it's ideas like this that made me create this OP in the first place.  No one will argue that they want less mob variety.  But there is really no correlation between mob variety and a limited skill bar.  So this is a straw man argument.

In fact BOTH examples given above work AGAINST this argument.  WoW is given as an example of a game with no mob variety, yet is does not have a limited skill bar.  And Everquest is given as an example of a game with lots of mob variety, yet it DOES have a limited skill bar.

So I mean, you guys have basically worked to invalidate your own argument ;). 

Your argument is invalidated because you are leaving out the known fact that EQ1 became the first MMORPG to have players create their own UIs to replace the games limited version which was done for the purpose of the console version. The player created UIs popularity alongside what was done by players for AC1 led to the next gen of MMORPGS, DaoC/SWG to have more toolbars and SWG even went farther with a customizable UI. It also led Blizzard to allow mods in game.

and the train keeps on a rollin.

  ButeoRegalis

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/02/10
Posts: 453

6/12/14 10:24:22 AM#39
Originally posted by Creslin321

(...)

3.  No "Macroable" Skills:  In games with MASSIVE skill bars like Rift, macros that just basically shot skills off in a sequence with one button were very common.  The reason they were common was because there was essentially one skill rotation that was optimal under just about any circumstance.(...)

This, the "optimal" rotation, is also enforced in games such as e.g. SWTOR by having some skill X build up stacks of something that give the other skill Y a massive buff, like +50% chance to crit. That way you really always want to execute skill X three times for the max stacks before you fire off skill Y. And there usually is a direct 1-to-1 between these "build up" skills and the "consumer".

  Rattenmann

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/05
Posts: 360

6/12/14 10:29:52 AM#40

How can people call "limiting choice" a good think? I don't get it. Noone limits you to only use 6 skills if you want, even if you COULD use 20. Your choice.

 

Don't limit my experience and immersion. And no i don't think it is a good thing to explore a new map, getting ambushed by 10 goblins and not being able to fireball them, because i currently "forgot" how to do that in order to "learn" how to run a bit faster.

 

Seriously. I don't get that at all. Limiting skills is not making build diversity better. It makes it frustrating and boring. There is always a best way to do xy and you have to switch for the next zone. Id much rather have a random event spawn on me and REACT to it with all my possibilitys. 

MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.

Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?

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