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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Zenimax just cut 300 customer service jobs for ESO in EU 4 months early

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119 posts found
  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6944

6/12/14 4:14:10 PM#61


Originally posted by Ehllfhire

You do realize companies hire for expected demand ahead of time, not hire after they get demand. This is clearly a case of the demand wasnt what they thought it would be and now they have to clean up costs to make a buck.

You seem to have some issues with reading comprehension...or some other w/e issues.

Those were short-term workers, they were expected to stay only for 2-6 weeks, and that is what has happened in past 2 months(April-May), 300 people were let go.


And then, the sales(demand) does not equal CS load. There are many factors - state of the game at launch, pace of fixes, level of CS and how much do you actually want to spent on CS, etc.


So to fix your statement with adding some sense:

"This is clearly a case of the CS load toning down and going back to normal operation level."

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1256

6/12/14 5:37:07 PM#62
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Ehllfhire

 This is clearly a case of the demand wasnt what they thought it would be and now they have to clean up costs to make a buck.

 

"This is clearly a case of the CS load toning down and going back to normal operation level."

The problem I have with your "fix" is that you are suggesting that this is simply business as usual. CS load reducing - obviously; what normal demand is - we don't know.

Ehllhire's version is closer because it touches on the heart of the issue: demand is not what ZoS expected. 

In March the news was about 250 temporary posts being created. Now it is all about 300 positions being cut / cut early.

All the temporary staff plus 50 of the 180 staff hired when the centre was established. (Accepting the reports as accurate)

So they over estimated the initial surge and over estimated post launch demand as well. (Which ties in with the lack of reports about the overflow servers being used.)

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6944

6/12/14 5:40:53 PM#63


Originally posted by gervaise1

Ehllhire's version is closer because it touches on the heart of the issue: demand is not what ZoS expected. 

Except this is utterly falacious statement... Demand =/= CS load.

  WolfClaws

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 480

6/12/14 5:47:06 PM#64
Wow, the speculation and wrongful interpretation reminds me of MMORPG "news" reports.
  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6944

6/12/14 5:50:35 PM#65


Originally posted by WolfClaws

Wow, the speculation and wrongful interpretation reminds me of MMORPG "news" reports.

Yeah, the thread is far beyond point of stupid: They hire 300 people for 2-6 weeks contract, 6 weeks later 300 people are let go...shocking news... /facepalm

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1256

6/12/14 6:00:11 PM#66
Originally posted by Ehllfhire
I do like that line of logic even if we dont know the starting numbers for that formula.

Yeah I read Loke666's comment and it made me think. Sad maybe!

And as long as you realise that all you doing is a "ball park test" then you don't need actual starting numbers as long as your guesses are not stupid and you focus on the core issues. I am sure ZoS will have modelled peak play hours, average hours played per day, shift systems, subscription retentions and all sorts of stuff! 

  catowar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/04/13
Posts: 8

6/12/14 7:11:34 PM#67
wow it lasted longer then I thought. I might try it for a week once its free
  loulaki

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/20/11
Posts: 810

6/12/14 10:54:17 PM#68
Originally posted by Ehllfhire
http://connachttribune.ie/galway-jobs-blow-300-gone-software-firm/ This is the local newspaper for the town the jobs were in.

 

 

so sad people lose their jobs, their hopes, their dreams, just cause some publishers are greedy as flies on a pile of shit.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6944

6/13/14 1:31:49 AM#69


Originally posted by loulaki

so sad people lose their jobs, their hopes, their dreams, just cause some publishers are greedy as flies on a pile of shit.


Too bad you didn't get past the head title.... They didn't lose jobs, they were short-term contract workers.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2906

6/13/14 1:44:38 AM#70
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by loulaki

 

so sad people lose their jobs, their hopes, their dreams, just cause some publishers are greedy as flies on a pile of shit.

 


 

Too bad you didn't get past the head title.... They didn't lose jobs, they were short-contract workers.

Just give it up, the majority here seem to have no interest in the facts.

 

They're all having too much fun trying to make the headline sound as negative as possible.

  Ehllfhire

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 590

Playing the FFXIV 2.0 Demo

 
OP  6/17/14 10:50:22 AM#71
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by loulaki

 

so sad people lose their jobs, their hopes, their dreams, just cause some publishers are greedy as flies on a pile of shit.


 

Too bad you didn't get past the head title.... They didn't lose jobs, they were short-term contract workers.

Dude those are still jobs. Did they get paid to work? Yes, so it was jobs they lost. [mod edit]

Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
PS3

  wuhsin88

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/16/14
Posts: 86

6/18/14 6:33:03 AM#72

So they hired 250 people, then they fired 300. When a company is firing more than it's hiring, it's safe to say that company isn't making a whole lot of profit. Even if they were temps, it's hard to have confidence in customer support when they know they're going to be gone in a few weeks anyway. If my job was only going to last a few weeks anyway, I don't think I would be investing too much hard work in doing that job well. I would half-ass it, and copy & paste random responses to questions without reading them. Judging by what I read on ESO's official forum, that seems to have went on a lot. 

To those of you who seem to care more about Zenimax and ESO than the people who lost their jobs, shame on you. People should matter more than corporations. This is the kind of mentality that's wrong with America today. These big companies chew people up, and spit them out, and you all stand there idly enjoying the show. Is Zenimax Media your God or something? Do you go to Zenimax Studios every Sunday to sing Fus Ro Dah and listen to their PR preach about playing the way you want to play? Because some of you honestly come across as that fanatical for defending this studio so vigorously. 

I voted with my wallet, I'm not sending this greedy company a dime. They tried to sue Mojang over using the word "Scrolls." They tried to sue a developer of the Oculus Rift for using their "intellectual property" to develop it. They had a Cease and Desist letter sent to them by Germany for not giving people their free month until they enter payment information. They're too cheap to put a server in Europe, and they fired the majority of their customer support already, two months from launch. They locked content that has been standard in all TES games behind a pay wall with their CE. And the whole thing with horses costing over 40x what they did in any other TES game is a big red flag too. 

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6944

6/18/14 6:44:56 AM#73


Originally posted by Ehllfhire

Dude those are still jobs. Did they get paid to work? Yes, so it was jobs they lost.

Never said those are not jobs, I say that you cannot lose what you are not supposed to have.

  Quesa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 1265

6/18/14 6:57:36 AM#74
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Nemesis7884
Originally posted by bcbully
Nowhere does it say ESO in the article. Nice one OP... More than slightly misleading.

didnt know zenimax online studies had any other game...?

 

Bethesda Softworks, part of the ZeniMax Media Inc. family of companies, is a worldwide publisher of interactive entertainment software. Titles featured under the Bethesda label include such blockbuster franchises as The Elder Scrolls®,DOOM®, QUAKE®, Fallout®, Wolfenstein®, Dishonored®,Prey® and RAGE®. For more information on Bethesda Softworks’ products, visit www.bethsoft.com.  To visit the Bethesda merchandise store, visit store.bethsoft.com.

 

Bethesda is one of 10 companies owned by Zenimax.

 

ZeniMax Online Studios is a subsidiary of Zenimax Media.  ZMax Online Studios is who dumped the 300 workers and their only product, to date, is ESO.

 

It's also important to note that this happens a lot.  MMOs release with big sales and that needs a lot of attention in the beginning.  Things start to settle down after a time and that's why they hire these employees under short term contracts.  Stop acting as though this is a big surprise or has much to do with ESO's successes or failures as it does the typical first year of an MMOs life.

  Zhiroc

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/04
Posts: 212

6/18/14 1:11:27 PM#75
Originally posted by Quesa

It's also important to note that this happens a lot.  MMOs release with big sales and that needs a lot of attention in the beginning.  Things start to settle down after a time and that's why they hire these employees under short term contracts.  Stop acting as though this is a big surprise or has much to do with ESO's successes or failures as it does the typical first year of an MMOs life.

Yes and no. Yes, these were intended to be temporary jobs, meant to handle the initial influx due to the game being new, and were expected to be lost after a period of time.

However, indications are (depending on the accuracy of the reporting) that these jobs were terminated early, and very early in at least some of the cases--meaning that the expected influx did not meet ZOS's expectations and given the somewhat rocky start, is even more significant as I imagine the CS load was higher for the actual userbase than was expected (or if it was expected, says something about how much faith was had in the code...).

To put 300 people through a week of training is about 12,000 man-hours. I would presume these people, though temps, probably got at least (the equivalent of) US$15/hr, and the contract agency probably charged at least $20 if not more. Thus, their training expense was likely in the vicinity of US$250K, or higher. You don't spend that much, or waste that much once it's spent, unless you really, really see the writing on the wall that you're going to not need them. I would bet there was also an early termination clause in the contracting agency's T&C's too--it takes money to hire and process people, and it would make sense that they would demand to have those costs covered no matter how long they were hired.

Thus, it lends credence to the view that sales were not "stellar". It doesn't, I agree, say how low they were, but I still suspect that in the week or two after launch, they had not sold over a million. 

  laokoko

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/14/09
Posts: 1915

6/18/14 2:27:01 PM#76

The shocking news is they have 300 jobs just for EU customer service.

That is more staff than some of the mmorpg out right now.  Obviously not sustainable.

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1256

6/19/14 5:27:27 AM#77
Originally posted by laokoko

The shocking news is they have 300 jobs just for EU customer service.

That is more staff than some of the mmorpg out right now.  Obviously not sustainable.

Worldwide support if they were operating as intended. 

A broad brush assessment (see above) suggested that the total staffing was in the right order if Zenimax expected high sales. (A few million type number).

If reports are accurate then 250 staff added to the 180 staff pre-launch; 300 staff let go post launch - some earlier than expected. Note: 300 is more than 250.

Why? Either a) console delay b) customers needed less support than expected c) did not sell as well. Could be all three but given the bot issue; account security; bank problem; duplicate item issue ... it probably wasn't b).

  icanread88

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/19/14
Posts: 12

6/19/14 5:56:54 AM#78

From the article:

"One employee told this newspaper that he was hired in March with around 200 other workers on six month contracts, but has now been let go."

"It’s understood that there are now just over 100 employees at the European customer services centre in the Rahoon Business Park (near B&Q)."

So if the article is correct, these were not all 2-6 week contracts. AT LEAST 100 people with six month contracts were terminated early, probably more. Zenimax paid a lot of money to train all these workers, then let them go. It's reasonable to believe the company isn't making as much money as it had hoped. To those defending Zenimax, I don't know why you'd have a dog in this fight unless Zenimax paid you. This company is suing people/companies left and right, firing it's employees en masse, and to top it all off, the game they published is nowhere near the game they were hired to make, or the game they advertised. We wanted THE ELDER SCROLLS ONLINE, not DAoC2 Online, or Quest Treadmill 2014 Online... Why is that so hard for the devs, fanboys, and shills to understand?

 

 

 

 

  Arskaaa

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/15/06
Posts: 680

Your chararacter gains experience and levels up, defining a role playing game.

6/19/14 6:11:39 AM#79

money is more imporant then humans.

 

but yeah, TESO was mediocore mmorpg with lots proplems. Elder scroll games should stay as singleplayer games with modding.

  icanread88

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/19/14
Posts: 12

6/19/14 6:27:35 AM#80
Originally posted by Arskaaa

money is more imporant then humans.

 

but yeah, TESO was mediocore mmorpg with lots proplems. Elder scroll games should stay as singleplayer games with modding.

I think they should do like Minecraft, and give players the options to host their own servers for multiplayer if they want. Then mods can be used to alter the gameplay. If you want a PVP server, I'm sure someone will make a mod for that. But the game will still be balanced like a TES game, you won't have to put up with being gimped as an archer for the sake of balance. This way you can adventure with a single friend, or maybe have 20-40 people on your server living in different locations. I feel Minecraft's greatest strength is being able to host your own servers, with the second being modding. If the next TES game will just add some way to turn your console or PC into a private server for multiplayer, and let us mod, it has the potential to be revolutionary. Thinking about it, I'm surprised there's not already some online multiplayer Skyrim server.......

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