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General Discussion  » Zenimax just cut 300 customer service jobs for ESO in EU 4 months early

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119 posts found
  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5786

6/11/14 11:36:26 AM#41
Originally posted by SlyLoK

1. These were temp postions hired for the release rush.

2. These are customer service reps which there are still many remaining.

3. These were not developers.

4. With the EU megaserver still based in the US they had no need to keep them longer than needed. I wouldnt be surprised if some are rehired when the EU server is moved.

Still to some cutting loose temp workers somehow means something.

For some, the 'Writing on the Wall' might just as well have been written in invisible ink. After all, just because a game is struggling, and their laying off staff substantially earlier than initially projected, just as having to push back the console releases by 6 months or so, is just 'one of those things' and nothing to at all be concerned about. And not releasing sales figures is just because their a bit busy right now, but they'll get around to it right? all these things are just coincidences, they mean nothing at all

  Zeymere

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/11/05
Posts: 186

No...
Not without incident.

6/11/14 11:40:37 AM#42
Originally posted by SlyLoK

1. These were temp postions hired for the release rush.

2. These are customer service reps which there are still many remaining.

3. These were not developers.

4. With the EU megaserver still based in the US they had no need to keep them longer than needed. I wouldnt be surprised if some are rehired when the EU server is moved.

Still to some cutting loose temp workers somehow means something.

Yes they were temps, but the qty and that they were cut early points to something...  What idk what does it matter it just sucks that many people are out of work so much sooner.

  BailoPan15

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/14
Posts: 430

6/11/14 11:42:53 AM#43
Originally posted by Uhwop
It's the EU gamers fault.  They didn't give the game a fair chance and now not enough subs to cover pay checks.  

Ughhh, you mean having extreme pings for over 3 months now because the EU server is physically located in the US? Yeah, totally not a fair chance. Such bad EU people

P.S: It's funny because ANet haven't had any massive layoffs yet, and its 2 years in and if I ask some of you, you'd say its a dead game. Infact ANet is hiring, go figure. 

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3270

6/11/14 11:53:21 AM#44
I don't understand why people read so much into this kind of stuff.  It happens to just about every company after they release whatever they're working on.  The gaming industry has a very high turn over rate, because once a game is out, there's no need to keep around the numbers you see while in development (this includes CS during Beta and just after release).  During Beta testing and usually the first 3 months is the largest your team is going to be in any area of the game, because you're trying to find, report, and fix all the bugs.  This goes for almost every game company, except larger ones like Blizzard who usually puts people on other projects.
  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1664

6/11/14 1:46:39 PM#45

The positions were temporary to cover the initial "rush" related - clearly - to TESO. The fact that they have been let go is probably due to a) TESO on PC not doing as well as anticipated; b) delay of the console release c) TESO launching without issues so it didn't need as much support - OK maybe not!

Now corporate structures 101.

Zenimax Media Inc. is head office. It will operate as a "profit/cost centre" and will hire and fires its own staff.

It operates a number of studios each of which will operate as an independent profit centres. Head office will OK all the work that the studios undertake and will set them (profit) targets. Studios will plan accordingly and report on how they are doing. Each "profit centre" will "hire/fire" their own staff - so the fact that e.g. Bethseda is hiring/firing has no direct bearing on what Zenimax Online Studio is doing.  For the 101 version think of HQ and each studio (division) as being 100% independent.

Each individual studio operates from one or more locations; each location allocated one or more tasks. These locations will not be profit centres.

Zenimax Online Studios was established to develop TESO. Currently this is its only game. Its development centre is based in Hunt Valley (unincorporated! - think tax advantage); its customer support operation is in Galway (think tax advantage). Galway was set-up - according to ZoS's press releases to handle all TESO customer support (EU and US).  

 

Any news about ZoS in Hunt Valley or Galway will relate to TESO. As Gravarg says above this is not uncommon but clearly wasn't planned - it costs money to hire staff (advertise, go through resumes, interview etc.) and then provide training, equipment etc.

  Ehllfhire

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 612

Playing the FFXIV 2.0 Demo

 
OP  6/11/14 1:49:31 PM#46
Id like to point out to those defending this, this is exactly how TSW's path to f2p started.

Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
PS3

  JoeyMMO

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/11
Posts: 1334

To busy playing GW2 to post much around here... *shrug*

6/11/14 3:55:09 PM#47
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Nemesis7884
Originally posted by bcbully
Nowhere does it say ESO in the article. Nice one OP... More than slightly misleading.

didnt know zenimax online studies had any other game...?

 

Bethesda Softworks, part of the ZeniMax Media Inc. family of companies, is a worldwide publisher of interactive entertainment software. Titles featured under the Bethesda label include such blockbuster franchises as The Elder Scrolls®,DOOM®, QUAKE®, Fallout®, Wolfenstein®, Dishonored®,Prey® and RAGE®. For more information on Bethesda Softworks’ products, visit www.bethsoft.com.  To visit the Bethesda merchandise store, visit store.bethsoft.com.

 

Bethesda is one of 10 companies owned by Zenimax.

 

The Maryland-headquartered company is working with recruitment firm Kelly to hire the staff for its European headquarters in Galway

The company is to hire 70 French speakers, 30 German speakers, as well as 150 English speakers to support players of its popular online game.

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/careers/item/36173-job-anc-14

Give it a rest bcbully, sheesh.

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1664

6/11/14 5:16:18 PM#48
Originally posted by JoeyMMO
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Nemesis7884
Originally posted by bcbully
Nowhere does it say ESO in the article. Nice one OP... More than slightly misleading.

didnt know zenimax online studies had any other game...?

 

Bethesda Softworks, part of the ZeniMax Media Inc. family of companies, is a worldwide publisher of interactive entertainment software. Titles featured under the Bethesda label include such blockbuster franchises as The Elder Scrolls®,DOOM®, QUAKE®, Fallout®, Wolfenstein®, Dishonored®,Prey® and RAGE®. For more information on Bethesda Softworks’ products, visit www.bethsoft.com.  To visit the Bethesda merchandise store, visit store.bethsoft.com.

 

Bethesda is one of 10 companies owned by Zenimax.

 

The Maryland-headquartered company is working with recruitment firm Kelly to hire the staff for its European headquarters in Galway

The company is to hire 70 French speakers, 30 German speakers, as well as 150 English speakers to support players of its popular online game.

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/careers/item/36173-job-anc-14

Give it a rest bcbully, sheesh.

Just to clarify JoeyMMO's post: they were working with Kelly recruitment in March 2014 to add 250 jobs to support TESO. If,  as reported, they have released 300 staff this suggests they have reduced permanent positions as well from 180 to 130. If the numbers are accurate of course.

  bcbully

Tipster

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 8164

6/11/14 5:18:59 PM#49
Originally posted by Ehllfhire
Id like to point out to those defending this, this is exactly how TSW's path to f2p started.

by hiring temp workers then letting them go 4 weeks early? Oookay lol.

  Ehllfhire

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 612

Playing the FFXIV 2.0 Demo

 
OP  6/11/14 5:20:27 PM#50
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Ehllfhire
Id like to point out to those defending this, this is exactly how TSW's path to f2p started.

by hiring temp workers then letting them go 4 weeks early? Oookay lol.

You were there, yes they fired the customer service first.

Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
PS3

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 17195

6/11/14 5:28:27 PM#51
Originally posted by gervaise1

The positions were temporary to cover the initial "rush" related - clearly - to TESO. The fact that they have been let go is probably due to a) TESO on PC not doing as well as anticipated; b) delay of the console release c) TESO launching without issues so it didn't need as much support - OK maybe not!

Now corporate structures 101.

Zenimax Media Inc. is head office. It will operate as a "profit/cost centre" and will hire and fires its own staff.

It operates a number of studios each of which will operate as an independent profit centres. Head office will OK all the work that the studios undertake and will set them (profit) targets. Studios will plan accordingly and report on how they are doing. Each "profit centre" will "hire/fire" their own staff - so the fact that e.g. Bethseda is hiring/firing has no direct bearing on what Zenimax Online Studio is doing.  For the 101 version think of HQ and each studio (division) as being 100% independent.

Each individual studio operates from one or more locations; each location allocated one or more tasks. These locations will not be profit centres.

Zenimax Online Studios was established to develop TESO. Currently this is its only game. Its development centre is based in Hunt Valley (unincorporated! - think tax advantage); its customer support operation is in Galway (think tax advantage). Galway was set-up - according to ZoS's press releases to handle all TESO customer support (EU and US).  

Any news about ZoS in Hunt Valley or Galway will relate to TESO. As Gravarg says above this is not uncommon but clearly wasn't planned - it costs money to hire staff (advertise, go through resumes, interview etc.) and then provide training, equipment etc.

I agree that part of the people indeed must have been temps, any MMO do need a lot more support at launch but 300 people?

Nah, it is pretty clear that Zenimax expected more players by now then they actually have, at least in EU. 

It sucks for everyone losing their job and the final word about the game is not said yet but Zenimax needs to do something ASAP or things will go even worse.

Add some real MMO dungeons, minimize the phasing and make RvR better and the game might still turn around though. It looks good, the combat ain't bad so the game surely isn't lost yet but adding more VR stuff is not the way to go and neither is adding 3 Vs 3 arenas.

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1664

6/11/14 6:41:57 PM#52
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by gervaise1

 

I agree that part of the people indeed must have been temps, any MMO do need a lot more support at launch but 300 people?

Nah, it is pretty clear that Zenimax expected more players by now then they actually have, at least in EU. 

It sucks for everyone losing their job and the final word about the game is not said yet but Zenimax needs to do something ASAP or things will go even worse.

Add some real MMO dungeons, minimize the phasing and make RvR better and the game might still turn around though. It looks good, the combat ain't bad so the game surely isn't lost yet but adding more VR stuff is not the way to go and neither is adding 3 Vs 3 arenas.

A lot of people for sure - for EU and US customers though. Is the number too big?

Make a few "wild guesses" to see:

  • If each query takes an average of 10 minutes talking to a rep.
  • Then each CS rep can deal with 6 an hour: 50 a day, 250 for 40 hours (excluding breaks); about 1,200 per 30 days.
  • If Galway had 180 staff and added 250 temps - say 400 people for queries, 30 for admin, reading blogs, forums etc.
  • So maybe 400 staff would handle 600k queries.
Obviously if the average query is shorter, no one has any days off etc. they will would do more; if the average is longer they would do less. But assume 600k in a month.
 
So how many queries did Zenimax plan for. Say 1 query per 30 days for every 5 customers, so 20% maybe? That would imply that they were assuming 5 x 600k = 3M sales. 
 
Ignore the actual number - they key here is that its "in the right ball park". Zenimax assuming 1M or 2M or 4M is believable. If the answer had been 20M or 200k that would suggest the number of CS being talked about was dodgy.  
 
 
Of course the speculation is then: how far below expectations were the initial sales if they axed this many CS early?
  Ehllfhire

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 612

Playing the FFXIV 2.0 Demo

 
OP  6/11/14 6:44:42 PM#53
I do like that line of logic even if we dont know the starting numbers for that formula.

Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
PS3

  JOverlord

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/14
Posts: 141

6/11/14 6:58:39 PM#54
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Ehllfhire
Id like to point out to those defending this, this is exactly how TSW's path to f2p started.

by hiring temp workers then letting them go 4 weeks early? Oookay lol.

4 months early. From a 6 month contract...Some only worked 2 weeks which included 1 week of training before getting fired.

  ElirionLoth

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/20/12
Posts: 243

6/11/14 7:07:36 PM#55
Originally posted by JOverlord
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Ehllfhire
Id like to point out to those defending this, this is exactly how TSW's path to f2p started.

by hiring temp workers then letting them go 4 weeks early? Oookay lol.

4 months early. From a 6 month contract...Some only worked 2 weeks which included 1 week of training before getting fired.

Read the article again.  It says 2-6 week contracts for the 200 that were let go.  One person is mentioned in the article as being let go who was on a 6 month contract.  He says he was hired with 200 others on 6 month contracts but there is no mention of any others from that group being let go.

 

 

  daltanious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 2011

6/12/14 2:26:58 AM#56
Originally posted by Zeymere

Wow that really sucks.  Working for the gaming industry is a hard road to hoe.

 

Z

And what is the worst part, this people I'm sure worked hard to repair well paid CEO'S(!!!) mess! As usually. I'm sure responsible for failure got next well paid job. And this is sad part.

For the rest .. this is how slavery ... ups, capitalism, works.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7867

6/12/14 2:55:47 AM#57

So they hired short-term workers to cover the massive load few weeks after launch and once the load settled down to managable levels, the contracts were terminated.

What is this thread actually about...?

  Ehllfhire

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 612

Playing the FFXIV 2.0 Demo

 
OP  6/12/14 11:15:40 AM#58
Originally posted by Gdemami

So they hired short-term workers to cover the massive load few weeks after launch and once the load settled down to managable levels, the contracts were terminated.

What is this thread actually about...?

No its about them laying off hundreds of customer service due to lack of demand.

Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
PS3

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7867

6/12/14 1:00:49 PM#59


Originally posted by Ehllfhire

No its about them laying off hundreds of customer service due to lack of demand.

If there was a lack of demand, they wouldn't need those short-term CS representatives in the first place. It is not the lack of demand but the opposite - high demand that follows any major release and high load on CS that needs to be covered.

But then again, if they didn't hire those people, you would call Zenimax incompetent for not being ready for post-launch load...

  Ehllfhire

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 612

Playing the FFXIV 2.0 Demo

 
OP  6/12/14 1:37:35 PM#60
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Ehllfhire

No its about them laying off hundreds of customer service due to lack of demand.

 

If there was a lack of demand, they wouldn't need those short-term CS representatives in the first place. It is not the lack of demand but the opposite - high demand that follows any major release and high load on CS that needs to be covered.

But then again, if they didn't hire those people, you would call Zenimax incompetent for not being ready for post-launch load...

You do realize companies hire for expected demand ahead of time, not hire after they get demand. This is clearly a case of the demand wasnt what they thought it would be and now they have to clean up costs to make a buck.

Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
PS3

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