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  jesteralways

Elite Member

Joined: 3/17/13
Posts: 595

5/09/14 12:16:26 PM#81
Originally posted by General-Zod

Originally posted by jesteralways

Originally posted by Thodra
I do not understand why people enjoy something like that... But glad you are happy....I think

Because they are masochists?

Masochists? I think the more appropriate term would be Opportunist

Originally posted by syriinx

Originally posted by Uhwop

Obviously you know more than me so please feel free to cry about pvp in a game that from everything I've read makes it possible to not have to engage in pvp unless you want to.  

 

Of course its possible.  But it means staying in low level areas doing low level things.


So the solution would be to eliminate the risk? Essentially, you're saying that you want the same rewards as a player that actually took the risk. That's not fair...

ok so you are telling me that person who loves being killed again and again; robbed again and again is an opportunist? wtf!!

 no the solution is to separate pvp and pve.

i want an open world, no phasing, no instancing.i want meaningful owpvp.i want player driven economy.i want meaningful crafting.i want awesome exploration, a sense of thrill.i want ow housing with a meaningful effect on my entire gameplay experience, not just some instanced crap.i want all of these free of cost, i don't wanna pay you a cent, game devs can eat grass and continue developing game for me.
Seems like that is the current consensus of western mmo players.

  General-Zod

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 558

Kneel.

5/09/14 12:18:56 PM#82
Originally posted by serialMMOist
Originally posted by Thodra
I do not understand why people enjoy something like that... But glad you are happy....I think

They like it because it makes up for how they are treated in RL. Personally, I find it funny since I know how terrible their life is that this is actually a pleasure. Crazy eh?

More stereotypes from classy PvE'ers

One could also say that a person that would so easily categorize players base on their gaming preference are "Racist" people in real life... 

See how that works

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3341

5/09/14 12:19:32 PM#83
Or make jailing equally as annoying, where you can hank jail someone over and over OMG THARS NOT FAIR says the GANKDONKEY.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  General-Zod

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 558

Kneel.

5/09/14 12:20:44 PM#84
Originally posted by jesteralways
Originally posted by General-Zod

Originally posted by jesteralways

Originally posted by Thodra
I do not understand why people enjoy something like that... But glad you are happy....I think

Because they are masochists?

Masochists? I think the more appropriate term would be Opportunist

Originally posted by syriinx

Originally posted by Uhwop

Obviously you know more than me so please feel free to cry about pvp in a game that from everything I've read makes it possible to not have to engage in pvp unless you want to.  

 

Of course its possible.  But it means staying in low level areas doing low level things.


So the solution would be to eliminate the risk? Essentially, you're saying that you want the same rewards as a player that actually took the risk. That's not fair...

ok so you are telling me that person who loves being killed again and again; robbed again and again is an opportunist? wtf!!

 no the solution is to separate pvp and pve.

Picture a scuba diver going to the same dangerous reef... only to get eaten by the same shark ... over and over again...

Wouldn't that seem a bit odd?

  User Deleted
5/09/14 12:20:45 PM#85
Originally posted by serialMMOist
Originally posted by Thodra
I do not understand why people enjoy something like that... But glad you are happy....I think

They like it because it makes up for how they are treated in RL. Personally, I find it funny since I know how terrible their life is that this is actually a pleasure. Crazy eh?

Is it just me, or are non owpvp'ers throwing around some really, really insulting comments. First i see someone call pvp'ers sociopaths, and now this? And people say pvp'ers are the worse communities. Not that pvp'ers are perfect. Really just check many MOBAs and FPS's.

It's like how PS4 fans say PC gamers are elitists because of the whole "PC gaming master race" thing, but then turn around to trash Xbox fans in every. single. turn. Not even kidding, just check comments and forums when the 2 are compared. The irony of people.

  Kilrain

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/25/03
Posts: 489

5/09/14 12:21:26 PM#86
Originally posted by General-Zod
Originally posted by serialMMOist
Originally posted by Thodra
I do not understand why people enjoy something like that... But glad you are happy....I think

They like it because it makes up for how they are treated in RL. Personally, I find it funny since I know how terrible their life is that this is actually a pleasure. Crazy eh?

More stereotypes from classy PvE'ers

One could also say that a person that would so easily categorize players base on their gaming preference are "Racist" people in real life... 

See how that works

No no, what he's really saying is that he doesn't like PVP/Risk because he never gets what he wants in RL. He needs a carebear game to make up for it.

professional web programming and design.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3341

5/09/14 12:25:14 PM#87
I don't think gankdonkeys get much risk from ganking carebears.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4740

5/09/14 12:45:19 PM#88
Originally posted by JimyHumuHumu
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Jabas
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Jabas
Originally posted by DamonVile

So like every pvp game it's ow pvp is mostly going to be about chasing down people doing pve and trying to kill them.

 

Go to a pvp hostile zone trying to deliver a pack for a higher reward insted of doing in a safe zone cant be considered PvE imo.

Semantics doesn't invalidate his point. If it's unfair, they will leave.

I didnt quote DamonVile entire post, was only comment this sentence. Im not say is a invalid point, it will hapened to some ppl ofc, but the treath is about someone went to a PvP zone by is choise, get kill and lose the pack. If this is gank or griefing i dont know anymore what this words mean.

But I think it goes deeper. I have no argument saying that someone who entered a PVP zone and got killed and so it's on that player. The point goes further then that though. It's when players who don't want to PVP are faced with limited choices that are much less favorable. If a game (not pointing specifically at AA) is designed that way and a person who typically favors a PVE experience feels shorted, left out or somehow feels the game treats them unfairly, they will leave. If the game cannot sustain a healthy player base after that, then it's a bad game design.

but there are so many 'full' pve games, where you can happily 'play the game' and watch tv at the same time, while being 'good' at it, but most of them cant sustain healthy player base either?

 

This one makes it just a bit tad higher to watch tv while doing in game stuff, because you know, there are mobs that can actually kill you (other people, might look at them as just another form mobs as well, like roaming mini bosses you can find if you venture in dangerous areas). Plus, theres also adrenaline rush you cant really get while playing mmos that let you 'win' while being in zombie mode.

 

archeage gets it right, relatively speaking, because it also leaves you with choice not to go to those dangerous areas at the frist place, but if you do so, you have to stop watching tv.  But even your areas where you are happy to semi afk forever do offer decent rewards, and considering theres usually no risk involved whatsoever its only natural to expect how less risk involved implies somewhat worse rewards too, no? Not to mention AA has so many safe areas, and korean basically changed almost everything to safe area, which lead just to more people leaving, so i really doubt safe areas were the problem of this game.

 

i for one prefer that over mindless alt + macro key gameplay so many people seem to enjoy (even if it allows me to watch my fav tv shows at the same time).

 

with all that said, i dont think how not being able to sustaint a decent player base is mmos fault, at least not entirely. People are so used to easy mode games, and too many have that 'i want it and i want it now' mentality. Basically most people want games where they can

a) solo

b) solo evertyhing

c) solo everything in zombie mode

now if you have a game where you cant solo everything while being in zombie mode (you can still go that route for many things in AA), its automatically labeled as bad design. No, encouraging teamwork in massively multiplayer online game is not bad design, its us who are so used to being able to solo so much (pretty much everything until infamous level cap) that think how grouping in mmo is a bad thing. Because every moment spent while grouping (if its not end game ofc) is a moment of lost exp, loot, farm, whatever.

 

Hey its not like people play games for fun, if you cant get at least 59% during 2hrs in game, that feature is simply not worth doing. So what if dailies are the most retarded thing ever, and are plain dull and boring. We will still ask for more dailies, because you can solo dailies, and they give nice rewards! Sure, they might get a bit tiring on your 247th run but hey, its rewards that matter. Not like we play games for fun, or to waste time to simply do things that give lesser rewards than dailies. 

 

Thats the mentality that got us here.

 

also, you can still solo lots of things in AA. In fact theres tons of things This is not one of those things, so its just...bad design and it should be changed to no-pvp-no-grouping task? Yes, because thats exactly what this genre needs. More solo stuff.

 

Or you, as a happy pver still could get a friend or two to protect your cargo, or even better why not get 5 friends who will take their own cargo, plus another 5 who will protect it?

Considering how pve is much more popular than pvp, pve guilds will also have more people, so why not take 100 pve happy people to your trip, do you think those evil pvpers would still dare to attack you? It would beasically end up as pve experience, no?

 

Yes, thats how one massively multiplayer game is trying to do things. For just some parts of it, it made grouping important, and having friends/guilds matter.

You say AA get's it right. I'm not so sure.This thread actually speaks volumes if I read between the lines. The OP has taken one of the worst scenarios in the genre and put a blatantly obvious spin on it trying to make it sound like getting ganked in AA will be fun. It won't. Getting ganked is NEVER fun and this post confirmed that it will happen.

I get all the reasons you are saying, but I'm not the one who needs convincing. Because when it's all said and done, if the PVE population feels like their game favors PVPers, then no, AA didn't get it right.

 

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Jabas

Elite Member

Joined: 7/23/08
Posts: 813

5/09/14 12:47:05 PM#89
Originally posted by DEAD.line
Originally posted by serialMMOist
Originally posted by Thodra
I do not understand why people enjoy something like that... But glad you are happy....I think

They like it because it makes up for how they are treated in RL. Personally, I find it funny since I know how terrible their life is that this is actually a pleasure. Crazy eh?

Is it just me, or are non owpvp'ers throwing around some really, really insulting comments. First i see someone call pvp'ers sociopaths, and now this? And people say pvp'ers are the worse communities. Not that pvp'ers are perfect. Really just check many MOBAs and FPS's.

No, its not only you. My worst community experiences are allways conected to a PvE only games. Some times inside in a instance with a group of ppl its a worse experience then been ganked by a guy 20lvls above me and 100 times more powerfull then me.

But there arent horrible pvers and/or pvpers, just to many horrible gamers around. Doesnt matter if it is pve or pvp or just a fórum discuss, this kind of ppl are everywhere and allways making more noise.

  JimyHumuHumu

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/07
Posts: 252

5/09/14 12:51:57 PM#90
Originally posted by jesteralways
Originally posted by Thodra
I do not understand why people enjoy something like that... But glad you are happy....I think

Because they are masochists?

no , dont think op said he loved it because he died. He loved the thrill you get from the encounter, or even while being on looking for one. But hey, his words are yours to twist.

 

Btw, as odd as this might sound... while you might be happy tab+macroing your 9 months in xx game while watching big bang theory at the same time, and doing your 2hrs worth of dailies - there are also some mmo players who want more than that.

 

sure open world pvp might look ugly, as it might make you miss some part of your fav tv shows but AA open world pvp =/= open world in darkfall (which in reality is just a big arena with housing).  AA does have ow pvp, but one with consequences, and no you wont get instakiled the moment you cross pvp area border.

 

ah and if someone kills you while you are doing your trade run, you might, god forbid, call for help.

Thats why guildies in games like AA are for, guilds arent meant to be just a glorified chat room but most new mmos made them look that way because you dont really need guildies for anything as almost everything is cross server now, and you might as well stay guildless forever. And if thats what you want, theres tons of other, full pve games out there, you dont even have to talk to anyone at all. 

 

as i already said, and you are definitely going to agree with me, pve crowd is much bigger than pvp one. So why not take your huge pve guild on ... guild trade run? Or is that against your beliefs too, because some pvp people might tag your pve group and once they do, you wouldnt be able to fight back because ... they arent mobs, and you refuse to attack anything thats smarter than AI?

 

no seriously, its a hugely pve game with just some things that actually have high risk vs reward ratio and people are asking for things that require no risk whatsoever to give as good rewards, or i got it all wrong?

 

mind you, im not really a pvper though, and while playing mmos forever i dont think ive attacked anyone without a good reason to do so... so i do not support ganking in any way  (ganking as in higher lvl ppl killing lowbies, not 2 equal people fighting, thats not ganking, thats pvp) ...but theres tons of things this game offers simply because pvp system is set up the way it is now, and removing it would kill a huge portion of the game and make it just another mmo

 

so your suggestion is, lets kill pvp and name it generic mmo   #4482 ?

 

Why not just play one of other 4000 mmos out there instead of asking one mmo, thats trying to make things a bit different, to change so it looks exactly like all other games? No seriously, i really dont get it.

  Kyarra

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/18/03
Posts: 604

5/09/14 1:01:41 PM#91
All they need to do to make everyone happy is to have different server types.
  JimyHumuHumu

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/07
Posts: 252

5/09/14 1:07:19 PM#92
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

You say AA get's it right. I'm not so sure.This thread actually speaks volumes if I read between the lines. The OP has taken one of the worst scenarios in the genre and put a blatantly obvious spin on it trying to make it sound like getting ganked in AA will be fun. It won't. Getting ganked is NEVER fun and this post confirmed that it will happen.

I get all the reasons you are saying, but I'm not the one who needs convincing. Because when it's all said and done, if the PVE population feels like their game favors PVPers, then no, AA didn't get it right.

 

no i dont think he wanted to say ganking was fun, but if he really did.... yeah i cant really argue about that one, lol

 

but the thing about AA is, its pvp system is pretty much rooted in every non-themepark element. Remove it and you get another generic mmo. Sure, it would make a few pve people happy but at the same time it would kill so many things that make this game so interesting, and different. 

 

Not sure if i could make a better example but lets just stick to trading via ships.

Now you have people doing trades, people selling their services to protect traders. You also have people who are looking for traders to steal their money. Then there is some random person whos roaming around and might join one side or the other. Or simply ignore it and move on. But you have people, doing stuff. 

You might have someone who never actually killed anything "big" in a game, who might be super rich but is not much into combat. And today his trip is gonna be interesting, and dangerous. And so will his next trip, and next one too... and 200 trips from now, his 201st trip will still be as dangerous and as interesting as ever, because every trip is different and you have no idea what to expect from it.

 

if you remove pvp, trade runs would become just another form of dull, daily quest that pretty much never changes and not only its not fun, but it feels like a chore too.

Now imagine doing it 200 times? Every single time it would be the same, does any of you pvers find that even a little bit boring, and why do you want to do boring stuff ? (not talking about you in particular geezer) :=)

  syriinx

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/24/13
Posts: 939

5/09/14 1:08:23 PM#93
Originally posted by Jabas
Originally posted by DEAD.line
Originally posted by serialMMOist
Originally posted by Thodra
I do not understand why people enjoy something like that... But glad you are happy....I think

They like it because it makes up for how they are treated in RL. Personally, I find it funny since I know how terrible their life is that this is actually a pleasure. Crazy eh?

Is it just me, or are non owpvp'ers throwing around some really, really insulting comments. First i see someone call pvp'ers sociopaths, and now this? And people say pvp'ers are the worse communities. Not that pvp'ers are perfect. Really just check many MOBAs and FPS's.

No, its not only you. My worst community experiences are allways conected to a PvE only games. Some times inside in a instance with a group of ppl its a worse experience then been ganked by a guy 20lvls above me and 100 times more powerfull then me.

But there arent horrible pvers and/or pvpers, just to many horrible gamers around. Doesnt matter if it is pve or pvp or just a fórum discuss, this kind of ppl are everywhere and allways making more noise.

Your biased statement here doesnt mesh with the rest of your post.

 

You are right that both sides have their fair share of asshats.  I see it more age than anything.  games with older audiences, such as EQ/EQ2 or DAoC tend to have overall better communities.  there are old asshats too, but the bulk of asshattery is coming from your 20-35ish generation.  the generation that grew as the internet grew and anonymous dickishness flourished.  of course that happens to be the bulk of the MMO population which is why we are often surrounded with asshats.

 

Thta said, im sure if there was a study done it would show that people that favor owPvP are more likely to be the type of person that thrives on causing others misery.  In other words, an open world PvPer is more likely to be a sociopath than a 'carebear'.  but there are definitely 'carebear' sociopaths and most PvPers are good people.

  StarI

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 818

5/09/14 1:09:56 PM#94
Originally posted by Mardukk
Originally posted by StarI
 

 

Good to hear. Ive heard the sieging isnt really in. Do you siege cities and then live out of them like df? Im also dubious that naval combat is way ahead of dfuw. Im assuming people can steal or blow up your ship in AA? Can I blow up cities from the water? Either way Im excited about AA(despite the combat), I just hope the northern continent is high on their dev priority list.

AA doesn't have full loot. You get honor points for kills and can buy gear for those.  All you can loot from a player is what they carry outside of their inventory, on their back or as cargo in vehicles. Transporting stuff like that earns you goodies but it's risky if you do it in PvP zones. That encourages people to bend together on both sides - trading cartels and pirates.

Or if you're a PvE junky you can earn same rewards in safe zones but with more time invsted due to lower risk.

You can't steal someone's mount/vehicle, but you can destroy them making them useless untill they get revived/repaired. They drop dead or explode and you can than loot the cargo if there was any.

You can't build cities in AA. You can build and conquer castles.  I've seen people build a castle on Northern continent but I haven't been a part of one myself so I'm not entirely sure how that mechanic works apart from that it's limited so a 900 member guild can't claim world domination  just by zerging smaller guilds. Once a war is declared your chosen 50 warriors get to battle oponents' 50 chosen warriors and the invaded castle zone becomes a temporary batteground.

And yes ships have canonons and you can use them for a coastal siege or so I heard.

I'm not sure what you get by owning castles except that you can claim territories and that you need a certain ammount of those to be able to create a faction or something like that.

Either way, there is a very good path set up and hopefully they actively continue developing in that direction.

  stayBlind

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/06
Posts: 511

5/09/14 1:15:05 PM#95
Originally posted by Kyarra
All they need to do to make everyone happy is to have different server types.

Except that the game mechanics revolve around having both on one server ...

Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4740

5/09/14 1:15:58 PM#96
Originally posted by JimyHumuHumu
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

You say AA get's it right. I'm not so sure.This thread actually speaks volumes if I read between the lines. The OP has taken one of the worst scenarios in the genre and put a blatantly obvious spin on it trying to make it sound like getting ganked in AA will be fun. It won't. Getting ganked is NEVER fun and this post confirmed that it will happen.

I get all the reasons you are saying, but I'm not the one who needs convincing. Because when it's all said and done, if the PVE population feels like their game favors PVPers, then no, AA didn't get it right.

 

no i dont think he wanted to say ganking was fun, but if he really did.... yeah i cant really argue about that one, lol

 

but the thing about AA is, its pvp system is pretty much rooted in every non-themepark element. Remove it and you get another generic mmo. Sure, it would make a few pve people happy but at the same time it would kill so many things that make this game so interesting, and different. 

 

Not sure if i could make a better example but lets just stick to trading via ships.

Now you have people doing trades, people selling their services to protect traders. You also have people who are looking for traders to steal their money. Then there is some random person whos roaming around and might join one side or the other. Or simply ignore it and move on. But you have people, doing stuff. 

You might have someone who never actually killed anything "big" in a game, who might be super rich but is not much into combat. And today his trip is gonna be interesting, and dangerous. And so will his next trip, and next one too... and 200 trips from now, his 201st trip will still be as dangerous and as interesting as ever, because every trip is different and you have no idea what to expect from it.

 

if you remove pvp, trade runs would become just another form of dull, daily quest that pretty much never changes and not only its not fun, but it feels like a chore too.

Now imagine doing it 200 times? Every single time it would be the same, does any of you pvers find that even a little bit boring, and why do you want to do boring stuff ? (not talking about you in particular geezer) :=)

I'm only taking the side of the PVEer because that's just reality.

Personally, I want an old school MMO like what they were before WoW. (And not with cash shops) But it's never going to happen. And for very similar reasons why I think a PVP focused game is also going to struggle in the end.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  mikuniman

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/28/06
Posts: 278

5/09/14 1:27:16 PM#97
Originally posted by Jabas
Originally posted by mikuniman
Originally posted by StarI
Originally posted by mikuniman

Yippie fun, spend your time being a farmer planting corn raising chickens for 12hrs to lose in 1 min, you're out seed and livestock costs, your game time and labor points. Jail for the thieves you say, click on their bloody foot prints, they go to trial go to jail for 10 min to a few hours max.

I think you posters saying it's fun to be ganked are full of bs and if not it will be fun a few times until it sinks in into your feeble mind it's more profitable to be a ganker. Huge flaw in the core of the game.

Of course the op posted a troll post, the mother of all troll posts..

No one is forcing you farm or do trade runs. Go kill mobs for hours if that's your fun and than buy what you want from other players. You can buy pretty much anything on player market.

You missed my point entirely, why bother with any of that when you can steal it since it's the most profitable.

Yes it is, but someone need to make packs and make packs is fun for alot of ppl, its part of the craft in AA and is fun.

Everyone will steal a pack if they can in pvp zones, its part of the game, but for that you need to have a victim and be able to kill him, and sometimes is not that easy, because as soon you pick the pack you might be robed too befor get the reward  ;)

No doubt crafting is fun, it's not going stay fun when you have 12+ hours invested plus materials and labor only to have it ripped off from gankers. I could fail stealing and die for half that time and still have a good days worth of product just killing. I'm just saying gamers always take the easy way out.

  JimyHumuHumu

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/07
Posts: 252

5/09/14 1:30:34 PM#98

yes geezers but i still dont believe game xx isnt doing great simply because of pvp enabled zones. How many pve-happy mmos were released in past few years? And pretty much they all failed, one way or another (some compared to money invested in them, some just failed :P).

 

i think many people are kinda tired of same old game design that not only got old, but boring too, and devs in all their wisdom copy those bad elements together with some good ones when trying to make a 'perfect' wow clone that wont feel like wow. And lets face it, biggest inventions in past few years were what... umm daily quests? I cant think of any single mmo released recently that doesnt have those, and boy, i dont think anyone actually likes doing dailies.  For gods sake i have enough dailies in my life, i dont want to come home to do another bunch of daily tasks :=)

 

 

im not some avid pvper that only plays games because of pvp. I might play a pvp game where i dont actually attack anyone for weeks (and it always is with a good reason too), but i like open world pvp in games i play because it makes those games so much more interesting, challenging and it also makes the game feel more alive. 

 

Unlike npcs, you cant really predict how will a player you just met react. Just that fact alone makes it feel a lot more ... umm... mmo?

  mikuniman

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/28/06
Posts: 278

5/09/14 1:32:56 PM#99
Originally posted by vidiotking

I love Battlefield 3 & 4. Am I good at that game? No. I get killed about 2 times more than I actually kill other people. I love that game even though I'm not very good at it, and I die a lot. True, I don't seem to "lose" anything when I die. Point is, dying can be fun, in a video game.

Poor example, Battlefield is a lobby based fps, pretty much your only choice is to kill or be killed. Mmo's are more diverse with many other ways to progress your character.

  Kyarra

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/18/03
Posts: 604

5/09/14 1:39:36 PM#100
Originally posted by stayBlind
Originally posted by Kyarra
All they need to do to make everyone happy is to have different server types.

Except that the game mechanics revolve around having both on one server ...

Which is why I think it would be great if just one game could copy SWG and have the TEF system, when I feel like pvp I turn my flag on (and healers get flagged if they help), when I feel like taking in the scenery let me have it off. That would please everyone, even if they don't have different server types

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