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General Discussion  » About the sub...

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86 posts found
  Joejc7135

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/13
Posts: 220

 
OP  4/04/14 11:28:23 AM#21
Originally posted by Tygranir
Originally posted by Celdryn

Question before I start: Why does a 9 year old have a bank account? 

 

Frankly...if you have less than 15 bucks in your bank account you DO have financial problems. Regardless of whether or not it your own fault .  I was a broke college kid once and I understand that you can run into money issues but seriously? This isn't fanboism, this is common sense. 

 

Personal advise: have a min balance you keep in your accounts. Treat 50 or 100 bucks like 0 and you don't run into this.

Because my son is nearly a teenager and would like to start learning financial responsibility. He has planned his finances to be adequate for any forseen charges. He had $6 remaining in his account and would have made another $20 by them time the sub was supposed to be charged. Zenimax has admitted they made a mistake, but a 9 year old has to foot the bill.

 

A kid paying for a video game has financial problems.... wow.

It's a good lesson, life is not fair. Get over it. And next time keep more then 6 dollars for unforeseen circumstances.

  Tygranir

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/13
Posts: 765

4/04/14 11:30:40 AM#22
Originally posted by papabear151
Originally posted by Tygranir
Originally posted by papabear151
Originally posted by Celdryn
Originally posted by Tygranir
Originally posted by Rusque
Originally posted by Tygranir
The problem is last night, Zenimax charged many people for a sub prior to their included 30 days.

Yes but that problem is fixed and those people are being credited back.

Indeed, but Zenimax is not compensating those who where hit with Overdraft Charges for the unexpected Withdrawal. It was an accident, but it is more impacting than some people are realizing.

Nor should they. That is an issue of personal finance problems not Zenimax. 

I'm not one to hate on fanboyism very much but this is just ridiculous. It's not a personal finance problem to get an overdraft because you got charged when you werent supposed to.

 

"I'll have 15 dollars in my account thirty days from now when I get my first charge, but I don't today"

Gets charged today, gets overdraft fee.

"Well it's your fault that we billed you when you werent supposed to be billed, handle your finances better"

 

WHAT??!?!!!!

 

To add: Get rid of your overdrafting crap. It's a scam. Most of the time your transactions will still go through, and many banks don't charge anything for going negative. I know at U.S. Bank they don't charge you anything for going negative unless you have "Overdraft Protection".

 

Overdraft Protection is basically: We can charge you for going negative

 

vs

 

We won't charge you for going negative.

If you think banks wont charge you for using their money... that is actually how banks make a profit.

I was, up until recently, an employee of U.S. Bank. I'm not defending them in anyway, they are a disgusting company who breaks the law all the time in order to make as much profit and scam as many customers as possible.

 

however, at the time and now, don't charge for small negative amounts, as long as you don't have "overdraft protection". When I joined the company I was setting up my checking account in the branch and asked about it.

 

"So basically, if I go negative without the protection I just go negative and have a few days to get the money back in there, but if I go negative WITH the protection I'll get charged all of these fees" - "Yes"

"So it's pointless and a scam" - "SHHHH" *looks at customer* "yes"

Overdraft Fees at Banks Hit a High, Despite Curbs

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304157204579475573602576630?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702304157204579475573602576630.html

From the Wall Street Journal. There are measures in place to attempt to help consumers of course, but not all banks have the overdraft grace period. I understand what you are saying, but not everyone is safe.

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  FlawSGI

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 1426

All of history is a lie. The truth depends on who does the listening, and who does the telling...

4/04/14 11:31:23 AM#23
Originally posted by papabear151
Originally posted by FlawSGI

I just shake my head at this. Not sure why they felt the need to do an authorization check for the full amount. I also don't think that any overdrafts this causes falls on the consumer. I keep all my money in savings where I earn and only allot  a small portion each month over to my regular account to cover bills. While I do give myself some leeway, I can see that if others budgeted the way we do then this could cause an unexpected charge.

I'm not sure why they feel the need to do one at all. Having .1 cents in your account now is no guarantee that you'll have any money in your account after the 30 days, or that the account will even exist.

They don't "need" this stuff "now", they just want to take that extra step to "help you" by making sure your account is primed and ready for billing. Ya know, just in case you forget that at the end of those 30 days they'll need money. Ya know, because not being able to log in isn't an indicator of that.

Oh I agree with you, I just can accept that this is common practice for some reason. What isn't common is for authorizations to go through for full amounts, at least not in my experiences. I feel bad for anyone that this actually affects. It is only $15 but this inconvenience coupled with the issues the game has run into during its early release does not sound like good times for all. Like all MMORPG's, be patient and I am sure it will get worked out.

RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  papabear151

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/12/12
Posts: 88

4/04/14 11:33:31 AM#24
Originally posted by Tygranir
Originally posted by papabear151
Originally posted by Tygranir
Originally posted by papabear151
Originally posted by Celdryn
Originally posted by Tygranir
Originally posted by Rusque
Originally posted by Tygranir
The problem is last night, Zenimax charged many people for a sub prior to their included 30 days.

Yes but that problem is fixed and those people are being credited back.

Indeed, but Zenimax is not compensating those who where hit with Overdraft Charges for the unexpected Withdrawal. It was an accident, but it is more impacting than some people are realizing.

Nor should they. That is an issue of personal finance problems not Zenimax. 

I'm not one to hate on fanboyism very much but this is just ridiculous. It's not a personal finance problem to get an overdraft because you got charged when you werent supposed to.

 

"I'll have 15 dollars in my account thirty days from now when I get my first charge, but I don't today"

Gets charged today, gets overdraft fee.

"Well it's your fault that we billed you when you werent supposed to be billed, handle your finances better"

 

WHAT??!?!!!!

 

To add: Get rid of your overdrafting crap. It's a scam. Most of the time your transactions will still go through, and many banks don't charge anything for going negative. I know at U.S. Bank they don't charge you anything for going negative unless you have "Overdraft Protection".

 

Overdraft Protection is basically: We can charge you for going negative

 

vs

 

We won't charge you for going negative.

If you think banks wont charge you for using their money... that is actually how banks make a profit.

I was, up until recently, an employee of U.S. Bank. I'm not defending them in anyway, they are a disgusting company who breaks the law all the time in order to make as much profit and scam as many customers as possible.

 

however, at the time and now, don't charge for small negative amounts, as long as you don't have "overdraft protection". When I joined the company I was setting up my checking account in the branch and asked about it.

 

"So basically, if I go negative without the protection I just go negative and have a few days to get the money back in there, but if I go negative WITH the protection I'll get charged all of these fees" - "Yes"

"So it's pointless and a scam" - "SHHHH" *looks at customer* "yes"

Overdraft Fees at Banks Hit a High, Despite Curbs

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304157204579475573602576630?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702304157204579475573602576630.html

From the Wall Street Journal. There are measures in place to attempt to help consumers of course, but not all banks have the overdraft grace period. I understand what you are saying, but not everyone is safe.

 

Well yeah, noone is safe. Money is all imaginary and relies on the government and economy to be in tact. In reality no wealth or ownership exists beyond what we ALL agree that it does, the second someone with bigger guns decides otherwise then all that is gone. What are all the people with the "backup 100 dollars just in case" gonna do then?

There is a reason transactions take days to go through instead of immediately, there is a reason banks pay you interest, there is a reason many checking and savings accounts are free. They are spending your money, may lose it, and short of FDIC protection don't actually have your money the moment after you give it to them.

Most people don't understand how banking works, in short, it is a HUGE HUGE scam.

  User Deleted
4/04/14 11:41:46 AM#25

WELP, 

 

I'm done here. We clearly didn't have the same parents and we didn't learn the same financial rules. Not saying yours is wrong but I know mine aren't either. Sorry for your inconvenience but Zenimax wont foot that overdraft bill as most companies do not

  Bigdaddyx

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1829

4/04/14 11:44:47 AM#26
But what could be the reason that authorization has to be of full amount of a monthly sub? usually companies take 1 dollar for pre authorization. Anyone can explain that?
  Tygranir

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/13
Posts: 765

4/04/14 11:46:36 AM#27
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
But what could be the reason that authorization has to be of full amount of a monthly sub? usually companies take 1 dollar for pre authorization. Anyone can explain that?

Zenimax flat out screwed up. Thay have admitted it. And tough cookies to anyone who has additional ramifications caused by said screw up.

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  Sephiroso

Elite Member

Joined: 8/01/05
Posts: 1131

4/04/14 11:47:05 AM#28
Originally posted by Joejc7135
Originally posted by Tygranir
Originally posted by papabear151
Originally posted by Celdryn
Originally posted by Tygranir
Originally posted by Rusque
Originally posted by Tygranir
The problem is last night, Zenimax charged many people for a sub prior to their included 30 days.

Yes but that problem is fixed and those people are being credited back.

Indeed, but Zenimax is not compensating those who where hit with Overdraft Charges for the unexpected Withdrawal. It was an accident, but it is more impacting than some people are realizing.

Nor should they. That is an issue of personal finance problems not Zenimax. 

I'm not one to hate on fanboyism very much but this is just ridiculous. It's not a personal finance problem to get an overdraft because you got charged when you werent supposed to.

 

"I'll have 15 dollars in my account thirty days from now when I get my first charge, but I don't today"

Gets charged today, gets overdraft fee.

"Well it's your fault that we billed you when you werent supposed to be billed, handle your finances better"

 

WHAT??!?!!!!

 

To add: Get rid of your overdrafting crap. It's a scam. Most of the time your transactions will still go through, and many banks don't charge anything for going negative. I know at U.S. Bank they don't charge you anything for going negative unless you have "Overdraft Protection".

 

Overdraft Protection is basically: We can charge you for going negative

 

vs

 

We won't charge you for going negative.

If you think banks wont charge you for using their money... that is actually how banks make a profit.

He is right though, not all banks charge you overdrafts anymore. Wells Fargo used to charge you 35 bucks per charge into the negative...and 35 bucks for every 3 days you didn't get out of the negative. Now they don't charge you anything all. Why? The federal government passed some legislation that said they couldn't. I don't actually agree with that but it's what happened.

If you're gonna talk, at least know what you're talking about. Wells Fargo still charges overdraft($35). And they charge($5) you every month you're below minimum balance(which this charge can incur another overdraft fee). The only difference between now and the past is you now have an option to opt out of overdraft 'protection'.


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  wanderica

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 86

4/04/14 11:55:02 AM#29

Zenimax is under no obligation to refund you the overdraft bill.  However, the bank will see the credit, and since it was an "unauthorized charge," will refund the overdraft fee.  I know it must gall, but seriously, think about this for a moment.  Zenimax is not going to give you a $35 overdraft fee + 15$ sub refund to cover the bank's charge.  

 

I've been broke before too, so I won't preach about having 100 bucks in the bank to cover shit that wasn't supposed to happen.  Is it a good idea?  Without a doubt it is, but when you're eating ramen, it just isn't practical.  As for the parent teaching their child to manage money in their checking account, again, the bank will reverse that charge.  In the meantime, I think (given that it's a 9 year old) that this may be a rare exception where a parent helps out and covers the deficit until the bank can get it straight.  

 

I understand your frustrations, and the fault does lie with Zenimax for charging it at the wrong time, but some of you people act like you've never had a debit card before.  This is your MONEY we're talking about.  Quit complaining on the forums and call your damn bank to fix this.  Jeez.

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1432

4/04/14 11:56:55 AM#30
Originally posted by Celdryn
Originally posted by Tygranir
Originally posted by Rusque
Originally posted by Tygranir
The problem is last night, Zenimax charged many people for a sub prior to their included 30 days.

Yes but that problem is fixed and those people are being credited back.

Indeed, but Zenimax is not compensating those who where hit with Overdraft Charges for the unexpected Withdrawal. It was an accident, but it is more impacting than some people are realizing.

Nor should they. That is an issue of personal finance problems not Zenimax. 

So you go and buy some <>. You pay by cc but the shop accidentally bills you for - a $100 or $1,000 or $10,000 or .... and you get charged fees. That would be your fault then?

 

This is actually a fairly well trodden path as it applies to all sorts of businesses - and without adequate protection people would never buy anything online (or even over the phone), Laws vary by country but usually the issue is covered by distance selling / consumer protection laws. As mentioned banks may simply rescind any charges - but things do vary by region / country so it may not be automatic. Having worked in the US and various EU countries I can attest to the fact that there are some "odd" differences.

Happened in DAoC once and Mythic - eventually - refunded people who were genuinely impacted. Even if it was a $35 fee or whatever.

 

  Tygranir

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/13
Posts: 765

4/04/14 12:00:44 PM#31
Originally posted by wanderica

Zenimax is under no obligation to refund you the overdraft bill.  However, the bank will see the credit, and since it was an "unauthorized charge," will refund the overdraft fee.  I know it must gall, but seriously, think about this for a moment.  Zenimax is not going to give you a $35 overdraft fee + 15$ sub refund to cover the bank's charge.  

 

I've been broke before too, so I won't preach about having 100 bucks in the bank to cover shit that wasn't supposed to happen.  Is it a good idea?  Without a doubt it is, but when you're eating ramen, it just isn't practical.  As for the parent teaching their child to manage money in their checking account, again, the bank will reverse that charge.  In the meantime, I think (given that it's a 9 year old) that this may be a rare exception where a parent helps out and covers the deficit until the bank can get it straight.  

 

I understand your frustrations, and the fault does lie with Zenimax for charging it at the wrong time, but some of you people act like you've never had a debit card before.  This is your MONEY we're talking about.  Quit complaining on the forums and call your damn bank to fix this.  Jeez.

I understand and agree with everything you said. I happily paid the overdraft fee and the bank is working to recover the funds. A public forum is a place to voice your opinions, and I was voicing mine regarding the issues caused by Zenimax. The retort from those defending Zenimax in this situation is that the are working with people to get the situation worked out. I was showing them the further damages cause by Zenimax that they are not willing to compensate for.

The situation is recoverable, but was totally preventable and has caused more hassel that was completely unnecessary.

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  wanderica

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 86

4/04/14 12:01:54 PM#32
Originally posted by gervaise1
Originally posted by Celdryn
Originally posted by Tygranir
Originally posted by Rusque
Originally posted by Tygranir
The problem is last night, Zenimax charged many people for a sub prior to their included 30 days.

Yes but that problem is fixed and those people are being credited back.

Indeed, but Zenimax is not compensating those who where hit with Overdraft Charges for the unexpected Withdrawal. It was an accident, but it is more impacting than some people are realizing.

Nor should they. That is an issue of personal finance problems not Zenimax. 

So you go and buy some <>. You pay by cc but the shop accidentally bills you for - a $100 or $1,000 or $10,000 or .... and you get charged fees. That would be your fault then?

 

This is actually a fairly well trodden path as it applies to all sorts of businesses - and without adequate protection people would never buy anything online (or even over the phone), Laws vary by country but usually the issue is covered by distance selling / consumer protection laws.

Happened in DAoC once and Mythic - eventually - refunded people who were genuinely impacted.

 

No, it wouldn't be your fault.  It would be an unauthorized charge on behalf of the store.  The bank would then refund the overdraft fees.  Incidentally, this is why most banks require authorization for charges over X amount.  Also, a charge (on a debit card anyway) won't be successful at a store most of the time if there is not money in the account to cover the charge.

  wanderica

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 86

4/04/14 12:09:24 PM#33
Originally posted by Tygranir
Originally posted by wanderica

Zenimax is under no obligation to refund you the overdraft bill.  However, the bank will see the credit, and since it was an "unauthorized charge," will refund the overdraft fee.  I know it must gall, but seriously, think about this for a moment.  Zenimax is not going to give you a $35 overdraft fee + 15$ sub refund to cover the bank's charge.  

 

I've been broke before too, so I won't preach about having 100 bucks in the bank to cover shit that wasn't supposed to happen.  Is it a good idea?  Without a doubt it is, but when you're eating ramen, it just isn't practical.  As for the parent teaching their child to manage money in their checking account, again, the bank will reverse that charge.  In the meantime, I think (given that it's a 9 year old) that this may be a rare exception where a parent helps out and covers the deficit until the bank can get it straight.  

 

I understand your frustrations, and the fault does lie with Zenimax for charging it at the wrong time, but some of you people act like you've never had a debit card before.  This is your MONEY we're talking about.  Quit complaining on the forums and call your damn bank to fix this.  Jeez.

I understand and agree with everything you said. I happily paid the overdraft fee and the bank is working to recover the funds. A public forum is a place to voice your opinions, and I was voicing mine regarding the issues caused by Zenimax. The retort from those defending Zenimax in this situation is that the are working with people to get the situation worked out. I was showing them the further damages cause by Zenimax that they are not willing to compensate for.

The situation is recoverable, but was totally preventable and has caused more hassel that was completely unnecessary.

Fair enough, and I don't disagree.  To be honest, it's a huge screw up by Zenimax, and in small claims court, you would almost certainly win the case.  I was simply trying to point out that these things happen, and banks have clear policies for dealing with them.  We make our banks money, after all.

You are correct though, it is a hassle and a pain in the neck.  Not to mention it will take at LEAST 2 business days to get the 15 bucks back. 

  mbd1968

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/07
Posts: 2004

4/04/14 12:09:41 PM#34
Originally posted by Celdryn

Question before I start: Why does a 9 year old have a bank account? 

 

Frankly...if you have less than 15 bucks in your bank account you DO have financial problems. Regardless of whether or not it your own fault .  I was a broke college kid once and I understand that you can run into money issues but seriously? This isn't fanboism, this is common sense. 

 

Personal advise: have a min balance you keep in your accounts. Treat 50 or 100 bucks like 0 and you don't run into this.

When I was younger my monthly salary paid of my overdraft. One day later I was overdrawn again. 25 years on I am in a much better position financially but do sympathize with those who are still in that position. You live in the US where cost of living is a lot less and standard of living is a lot higher than in many countries, particular in Europe where everyday items cost double what they do in the US. Maybe you should live a month in their shoes before you come out with smart comments about their finances.

  Joejc7135

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/13
Posts: 220

 
OP  4/04/14 1:10:23 PM#35
Originally posted by Sephiroso
Originally posted by Joejc7135
Originally posted by Tygranir
Originally posted by papabear151
Originally posted by Celdryn
Originally posted by Tygranir
Originally posted by Rusque
Originally posted by Tygranir
The problem is last night, Zenimax charged many people for a sub prior to their included 30 days.

Yes but that problem is fixed and those people are being credited back.

Indeed, but Zenimax is not compensating those who where hit with Overdraft Charges for the unexpected Withdrawal. It was an accident, but it is more impacting than some people are realizing.

Nor should they. That is an issue of personal finance problems not Zenimax. 

I'm not one to hate on fanboyism very much but this is just ridiculous. It's not a personal finance problem to get an overdraft because you got charged when you werent supposed to.

 

"I'll have 15 dollars in my account thirty days from now when I get my first charge, but I don't today"

Gets charged today, gets overdraft fee.

"Well it's your fault that we billed you when you werent supposed to be billed, handle your finances better"

 

WHAT??!?!!!!

 

To add: Get rid of your overdrafting crap. It's a scam. Most of the time your transactions will still go through, and many banks don't charge anything for going negative. I know at U.S. Bank they don't charge you anything for going negative unless you have "Overdraft Protection".

 

Overdraft Protection is basically: We can charge you for going negative

 

vs

 

We won't charge you for going negative.

If you think banks wont charge you for using their money... that is actually how banks make a profit.

He is right though, not all banks charge you overdrafts anymore. Wells Fargo used to charge you 35 bucks per charge into the negative...and 35 bucks for every 3 days you didn't get out of the negative. Now they don't charge you anything all. Why? The federal government passed some legislation that said they couldn't. I don't actually agree with that but it's what happened.

If you're gonna talk, at least know what you're talking about. Wells Fargo still charges overdraft($35). And they charge($5) you every month you're below minimum balance(which this charge can incur another overdraft fee). The only difference between now and the past is you now have an option to opt out of overdraft 'protection'.

Okay....My bank is wells fargo...I was overdrawn TWICE....didn't get charged a dime...waited a week to pay it back...no fees. Don't tell me I don't know what im talking about, I know what happened. I found it odd considering the prices you named used to get charged to me in the past. Are you gonna try and say im lucky or the bank system is broken? How do you explain this? Perhaps it differs by state?

 

And to the guy saying Im gonna let corporations and the govt walk all over me. What have you done to "fight the power". Except critque others from the safety of the internet..You go ahead and get mad if it makes you feel like you are more then the meaningless peon you are...me? I can recognize it for what it is and deal with it. Enjoy your mad kid attitude loser.

  Aeonblades

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2123

4/04/14 1:26:14 PM#36

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7816/kw/charged%20for%20first%20month

 

It's a pre-auth to make sure the card is valid. You will not be charged.

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  FlawSGI

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 1426

All of history is a lie. The truth depends on who does the listening, and who does the telling...

4/04/14 1:29:27 PM#37
Originally posted by Aeonblades

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7816/kw/charged%20for%20first%20month

 

It's a pre-auth to make sure the card is valid. The same thing 99% of every other MMO does.

And if you bothered reading anything in the discussion you are chiming in on you would see that this is understood. 99% of every other MMO's don't authorize for the full price BTW.

RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  Tygranir

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/13
Posts: 765

4/04/14 1:29:49 PM#38
Originally posted by Aeonblades

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7816/kw/charged%20for%20first%20month

 

It's a pre-auth to make sure the card is valid. The same thing 99% of every other MMO does.

Other MMOs only charge between 1 cent - $1. Also, the charge would state PREAUTH on the statement, not Subscription.

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  alterfenix

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 335

4/04/14 1:34:28 PM#39
Originally posted by Rusque
Originally posted by Tygranir
The problem is last night, Zenimax charged many people for a sub prior to their included 30 days.

Yes but that problem is fixed and those people are being credited back.

Not sure if it's fixed. They have charged me when I was setting up sub plan like 2-3 hours ago.

  Aeonblades

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2123

4/04/14 1:34:44 PM#40
Originally posted by FlawSGI

And if you bothered reading anything in the discussion you are chiming in on you would see that this is understood. 99% of every other MMO's don't authorize for the full price BTW.

This is why people don't help each other any more. All I read was the first post and saw the OP's concern and wanted to weigh in before any one fed him misinformation.

 

Looks like I was too late. Enjoying complaining for the sake of complaining everyone! G'day!

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

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