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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » GW2 China will be buy to play. . . with mandatory VIP.

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114 posts found
  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2796

3/20/14 8:40:09 AM#21
Originally posted by jpnz
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/20smr4/mike_obrien_interview_on_the_chinese_version_of/.compact


So Mike is lying?

What is he lying about?

"In the NA/EU launch version, the game only properly introduced a few systems, but mostly it provided everything with no introduction at levels one and two: downed state, profession abilities, off-hand weapons, underwater, crafting, gathering, map completion, fast travel, banking, trading post, PvP, and WvW. In the China version we spread out more of these so we could provide a proper introduction of each.Note though that advanced players can still skip ahead: they can work on various aspects of map completion, travel with Asura Gates, and join PvP or WvW, before the level at which these features are introduced.

In the NA/EU launch version, the game introduced a new personal story step every few levels, so after completing each story step the player was expected to do some leveling up before attempting the next. In the China version story steps are grouped together so that players can complete an entire section of the story at once.

In the NA/EU launch version, the game provided a skill point, a trait point, and some attribute points on each level up. These were very incremental changes that were difficult to notice or appreciate. In the China version the game provides rewards in bigger batches so that players can immediately notice and appreciate the difference. For example, one level you get five skill points at once, another level you get a big boost to your attributes.

In addition to improving the new player experience, we also made changes that we think are right for the long-term play experience. The biggest of those must be the change to the dye system. In the NA/EU launch version dyes were character unlocks, whereas in the China version they're account unlocks. With this new system you only need to collect a dye once and you can use it on any character. This is more convenient, but it means demand for dye will go down, so we're also reducing supply. Dye unlocks now come only from crafting and from the gem store.

Actually NA/EU players have been asking for dyes to be account unlocks for a long time and we'll want to make essentially this same change for NA/EU. The differences will be in phrasing. In the NA/EU version players purchase dye packs from the gem store; in China players purchase dye identifiers from the gem store. Either way you purchase something and it gives you random dye, permanently unlocked for all characters on your account.

Getting back to the question, I have provided a sampling of changes we made for the China version but this list is by no means exhaustive. A lot of our work went into changes that seem detailed or hard to notice, but to us, those details matter a lot. We re-implemented every hint in the game. We made the game teach itself and removed the old ineffective help system. We added a content direction system so that the game always points you to something you can do next. We even made behind-the-scenes changes, like changing the way the game stores its data on disk, and rewriting critical back-end servers to prepare for launch capacity."

Not cash shop related (aside dyes). Not VIP related.

"We think that unlocking weapon skills by level is a better system. It's simpler, it gives players more time to learn their first weapon, and then it means that they have all skills unlocked immediately when they find new weapon types later in the game.

To answer your question more generally, when we talk about keeping the versions synchronized, our core concern is to ensure that players can experience every new Living World episode and every new Feature Pack when we release them at about the same time in each territory. Thus it's important to us that the territories shares common core systems so that new content we introduce works the same everywhere in the world.

Going back to the example of weapon skill unlocks, it doesn't particularly matter to a player's enjoyment of Living World episodes or of a new Feature Pack release whether he had originally unlocked his weapon skills through combat or through leveling. Either way, the skills are unlocked. So we made that change for China because we think it's right for China, and we have plenty of time to decide later whether we should bring that change back to NA/EU too.

In some cases we have allowed the versions to diverge because there's a change we can make for China that would be very difficult to bring back to NA/EU. I'll give an example. In GW2, guilds can exist across multiple worlds. In the NA/EU version, guilds earn influence separately and spend it separately on each world that their members play on. In the China version, guilds have a single pool of influence, and the upgrades they purchase with influence benefit members on all worlds. Obviously the China system is better, but it's not easy to take a system like that back to NA/EU where guilds already have different unlocks on different worlds.

In some cases we couldn't allow even a temporary divergence without threatening our ability to ship new Living World releases and Feature Packs globally. I'll give an example. At launch in NA/EU we had long queue times for WvW, and WvW is only getting more popular over time, so we expected very long queue times in China. It was important for us to fix the WvW queuing situation before launching in China. But this was not something we could allow to diverge, so we ensured that we released the new WvW map, Edge of the Mists, in all territories prior to the launch in China.

Keep in mind, we'll be releasing a Feature Pack after CBT3 but before the launch of the game in China, so you'll see more of that type of global change then."

Not cash shop related. Not VIP related.

"In China also, players can enter WvW at level 2. We don't think that's a very good experience, but it's there for advanced players.

You're seeing a partially implemented system in CBT3. Here's how it will work: the WvW button will appear at level 35 or when any character on your account has earned a single rank in WvW. So if you want early access, you can use an Asura gate to travel there at level 2, earn a single rank, and all of your characters will get the WvW button."

Not cash shop related. Not VIP related.

"As developers, the important thing to us is that we hold true to our standards of what should be and what shouldn't be purchasable. You may have read my 2012 blog post on this subject. For those of you who haven't, I'll summarize. We think it's right that players can spend money on items to provide visual distinction or customization, and can spend money on account services and time-saving conveniences. We think it's right that players can trade gems for gold and vice-versa, such that players can keep up with other players and be on a level playing field, whether they use their time or money to do so. But we think it's never ok for players to buy a game and not be able to enjoy what they paid for without additional purchases. And we think it's never ok for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time.

These are our guiding principles. They're obviously different from what you see other developers doing. Particularly in China it seems common for games to have VIP systems that make characters more powerful than they could ever be without VIP. That's not a level playing field; that's "pay to win".

We believe the royal title system in GW2 is absolutely not a “pay to win” system. It certainly is a loyalty system: it gives you a reusable package of convenience items, plus gifts, plus discounts on everything else in the gem store, and the more you play the game the more convenience items you get. But the things it gives you are almost all things you could purchase with gems anyway. And they're convenience items, not power. There's no "pay to win" here.

I know that players everywhere are skeptical of microtransactions after having seen them abused in other games. So I wouldn't ask you to take my word for it; I ask you to see for yourself. In talks with KongZhong we've decided to expand CBT3 and allow players to experience the game soon without a CD key. I hope to see you there."

Evil evil Anet, NCSoft and Chinese publisher!

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  tallfella

Novice Member

Joined: 7/04/12
Posts: 10

3/20/14 8:45:49 AM#22
'Frankly my dear i just don't give a damn !'
  Mothanos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 1903

3/20/14 8:50:16 AM#23

China just happens to have to many mmo's that are better or on par with GW2.
I think it wont be doing that good in that market.

Sometimes i just became jalous on those chinese gamers :P
All the goods from Korea / Japan / Asia as a whole and we have to wait YEARS to get our hands on only a select few of them :(

Altough GW2 kep tme going for many times worth the purchase i just missed healing so much i started to hate the whole zerging around style of play.
And thats also a major concern with EQN, but thats a totaly diffrent topic :P

  Meowhead

Tipster

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 3741

3/20/14 9:00:08 AM#24
Originally posted by Mothanos

China just happens to have to many mmo's that are better or on par with GW2.
I think it wont be doing that good in that market.

GW2 was the #2 most anticipated game in beta in China, until Blade & Soul came out.  Then it was #1.

They're having a ton of players playing the beta.  No idea how well it'll do in the long term, but it looks like it'll do at well at least in the short term.

Also, China has tons of very bad MMOs. :(  It hasn't really had much luck exporting their games either.

US and Korea have both done much better with exporting their games to other territories.

I'm not sure what these many wonderful Chinese games you're talking about are, but they certainly haven't had any luck getting them to sell much out of their own country. :(

  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

3/21/14 2:39:05 PM#25
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by jpnz
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/20smr4/mike_obrien_interview_on_the_chinese_version_of/.compact


So Mike is lying?

What is he lying about?

/snip

1. Not going to quote your post as I generally don't like stealing other people's content via copy-paste onto a forum.

2. Did we move the goal post AGAIN?

So we went from 'Not ANet's fault' to 'Not really P2W anyway' to 'It is only titles and not anything else'?

Did you miss the part in his interview where Dye ID's require Gems?

So which is it?

Did Mike lie or was your post about 'titles' not entirely truthful?

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Bigdaddyx

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 2047

3/21/14 2:49:27 PM#26
Originally posted by Meowhead
Originally posted by Mothanos

China just happens to have to many mmo's that are better or on par with GW2.
I think it wont be doing that good in that market.

GW2 was the #2 most anticipated game in beta in China, until Blade & Soul came out.  Then it was #1.

They're having a ton of players playing the beta.  No idea how well it'll do in the long term, but it looks like it'll do at well at least in the short term.

Also, China has tons of very bad MMOs. :(  It hasn't really had much luck exporting their games either.

US and Korea have both done much better with exporting their games to other territories.

I'm not sure what these many wonderful Chinese games you're talking about are, but they certainly haven't had any luck getting them to sell much out of their own country. :(

Most anticipated doesn't always translate to most played though. And so far except for WOW no other western MMO has been able to break into Chinese market with success.

Yes i am sure they must have very bad MMOS too but at the same time they have some good Asian MMOS too which suits their playstyle more. It is going to be cakewalk for GW2 to break in Chinese market when they already have the juggernaut WOW. 

  Meowhead

Tipster

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 3741

3/21/14 6:34:15 PM#27
Originally posted by jpnz

1. Not going to quote your post as I generally don't like stealing other people's content via copy-paste onto a forum.

2. Did we move the goal post AGAIN?

So we went from 'Not ANet's fault' to 'Not really P2W anyway' to 'It is only titles and not anything else'?

?  You were the one who said it was P2W in the first place, and that it was Arenanet's fault.

Neither one of which is true.  How is he moving the goalposts?  By answering how you're wrong each time you shift your own stance?

  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

3/21/14 9:16:17 PM#28
Originally posted by Meowhead
Originally posted by jpnz

1. Not going to quote your post as I generally don't like stealing other people's content via copy-paste onto a forum.

2. Did we move the goal post AGAIN?

So we went from 'Not ANet's fault' to 'Not really P2W anyway' to 'It is only titles and not anything else'?

?  You were the one who said it was P2W in the first place, and that it was Arenanet's fault.

Neither one of which is true.  How is he moving the goalposts?  By answering how you're wrong each time you shift your own stance?

We are getting into some pretty sad (and funny) territory here.

Lets break this down shall we?

 

Why is this ANet's fault? - Gaia / Meow

Cause Anet/NCSoft decided to partner up with a P2W publisher? - Me

Well.....um.... It isn't P2W anyway! - Gaia / Meow

So it is Anet's fault then? And you just moved the goal post? Dye ID for Gems? - Me

What Dye ID for gems? There are only titles! - Gaia / Meow

*Reddit proof link.* So either Mike from Anet is lying or you are. - Me

You are wrong! - Gaia / Meow

/Facepalm - Me

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Meowhead

Tipster

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 3741

3/21/14 10:31:54 PM#29
Originally posted by jpnz

We are getting into some pretty sad (and funny) territory here.

Lets break this down shall we?

 

Why is this ANet's fault? - Gaia / Meow

Cause Anet/NCSoft decided to partner up with a P2W publisher? - Me

Well.....um.... It isn't P2W anyway! - Gaia / Meow

So it is Anet's fault then? And you just moved the goal post? Dye ID for Gems? - Me

What Dye ID for gems? There are only titles! - Gaia / Meow

*Reddit proof link.* So either Mike from Anet is lying or you are. - Me

You are wrong! - Gaia / Meow

/Facepalm - Me

Arenanet doesn't make the decisions.  I already said you can blame NCSoft, but so far as partnering with China goes, that's really out of Arenanet's hands.

You were the one who said it was P2W in the FIRST place.  You did.  You were the original post I responded to.  All I ever said was that it didn't really become a P2W cash shop.

I also said 'When you talk about gem ID, are you talking about dyes?', because you originally said gems for some reason.  So I was the first person to mention dye IDs in this particular conversation.  You can go look that up.  You specifically said gem ID and I asked for clarification. :P

I never said anything about titles only.  Maybe Gaia did, but I certainly didn't.

I am not actually Gaia, and you can't take statements that BOTH Of us make and attribute it to each other.  And yes, you are wrong about it being P2W, and it is silly to blame Arenanet for decisions that are beyond their control.  I even said you can blame NCSoft, go for it.  They're the people who make the international business decisions, so that'd make sense.

edit:  Since you seem to have forgotten, then was what I originally responded to.

Originally posted by jpnz
Last I checked gw2 belongs to ncsoft / anet. If they decide to partner with a p2w publisher that's on them.

My two problems with this is that Arenanet has no control over the international marketing of GW2.  That is on NCSoft.  My other problem was that GW2 isn't P2W in China, though it might have some weird monetization like the dye identification.

See?  No moving of my goalposts.  I have consistently kept the same stance on everything, and was responding to this original post of yours which wasn't quoting anything.  Now we're clear. :)

  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

3/22/14 1:58:47 AM#30
Originally posted by Meowhead
 

My two problems with this is that Arenanet has no control over the international marketing of GW2.  That is on NCSoft.  My other problem was that GW2 isn't P2W in China, though it might have some weird monetization like the dye identification.

See?  No moving of my goalposts.  I have consistently kept the same stance on everything, and was responding to this original post of yours which wasn't quoting anything.  Now we're clear. :)

This logic makes no sense.

If we fault a company for associating its IP with another company why does ANet get special treatment?

 

Getting shouted at by Pro-GW2 posters tends to blur them together. :P

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Meowhead

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3/22/14 7:27:45 AM#31
Originally posted by jpnz

If we fault a company for associating its IP with another company why does ANet get special treatment?

 

Getting shouted at by Pro-GW2 posters tends to blur them together. :P

Because it's not Arenanet's decision to make?

NCSoft owns Arenanet you know.  Generally you blame the publisher for the big picture sort of things, especially in a case like this, where it is literally outside of Arenanet's territory.

That's why EA takes a lot of flak, for example, rather than the smaller companies under its aegis.

You blame people for what they're responsible for.  It'd be like getting mad at a player on a team for a decision management makes.

I'm not yelling at you!  I'm just disagreeing with you.  And I can keep you straight from other people, and be civil about it as well.  You should try it! :)

  jpnz

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Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

3/22/14 4:26:02 PM#32
Originally posted by Meowhead
Originally posted by jpnz

If we fault a company for associating its IP with another company why does ANet get special treatment?

 

Getting shouted at by Pro-GW2 posters tends to blur them together. :P

Because it's not Arenanet's decision to make?

NCSoft owns Arenanet you know.  Generally you blame the publisher for the big picture sort of things, especially in a case like this, where it is literally outside of Arenanet's territory.

That's why EA takes a lot of flak, for example, rather than the smaller companies under its aegis.

You blame people for what they're responsible for.  It'd be like getting mad at a player on a team for a decision management makes.

I'm not yelling at you!  I'm just disagreeing with you.  And I can keep you straight from other people, and be civil about it as well.  You should try it! :)

If one decides to 'blame' NCSoft for associating with Kongzhong, why aren't we blaming ANet for associating with NCsoft?

That's the logic that apparently isn't 'logical'. You want to apply a logic, be consistant; otherwise it comes through as bias.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Meowhead

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3/22/14 10:13:46 PM#33
Originally posted by jpnz

If one decides to 'blame' NCSoft for associating with Kongzhong, why aren't we blaming ANet for associating with NCsoft?

That's the logic that apparently isn't 'logical'. You want to apply a logic, be consistant; otherwise it comes through as bias.

Because..... NCSoft owns Arenanet? D:  They always have (or at least for quite a while now)  Association isn't really a choice in this case, it's a matter of being owned by their publisher.

I mean, I guess you could blame Arenanet for selling out and getting a publisher (Though it's hard to publish an MMO on your own when you're just a few guys, especially pre-kickstarter days), if you want to do that.

But you can't logically extend that to something that NCSoft does with a Chinese company, several years in the future, unless you're accusing Arenanet of being both poor AND psychic. 

And if they could tell the future, they probably wouldn't have been poor.

If you want to blame Arenanet for 'selling out to the man', and then blame the man (NCSoft) for 'associating with the wrong sorts in China' (Though almost all of the MMO companies there have games with varying levels of pay to win), I would find that acceptable logical constructions. :)

But blaming Arenanet for the Chinese publisher is too much of a leap for me, sorry.  I am very consistent, thank you.  Like I said, I don't mind if you're lik e'GRRR!  Darn you Arenanet, for selling out to NCSoft!' or 'Darn you NCSoft for working with that particular Chinese publisher!', but I just can't stand behind 'Darn you Arenanet for working with that particular Chinese publisher!' because it isn't really a choice on their part.  They can't say no.

  Gaia_Hunter

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Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2796

3/24/14 3:18:25 AM#34
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by jpnz
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/20smr4/mike_obrien_interview_on_the_chinese_version_of/.compact


So Mike is lying?

What is he lying about?

/snip

1. Not going to quote your post as I generally don't like stealing other people's content via copy-paste onto a forum.

2. Did we move the goal post AGAIN?

So we went from 'Not ANet's fault' to 'Not really P2W anyway' to 'It is only titles and not anything else'?

Did you miss the part in his interview where Dye ID's require Gems?

So which is it?

Did Mike lie or was your post about 'titles' not entirely truthful?

So your reason to believe Anet sold their soul to the demon is Dye IDs for account bound dyes in China (without even knowing if there are different ways to acquire those dyes or not)?

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  jircris

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Posts: 394

3/24/14 3:26:13 AM#35
Originally posted by jpnz
Last I checked gw2 belongs to ncsoft / anet. If they decide to partner with a p2w publisher that's on them.

Actually it is not anet or ncsoft's doing. People want GW2 in china and this is the people who offered to run the game. They are the ones who set the rules and if you play ANY China based games you will see that they are all P2W

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  Gaia_Hunter

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Posts: 2796

3/24/14 4:49:36 AM#36
Originally posted by jircris
Originally posted by jpnz
Last I checked gw2 belongs to ncsoft / anet. If they decide to partner with a p2w publisher that's on them.

Actually it is not anet or ncsoft's doing. People want GW2 in china and this is the people who offered to run the game. They are the ones who set the rules and if you play ANY China based games you will see that they are all P2W

Exactly in which way is GW2 China P2W?

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  Arthasm

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Joined: 7/26/09
Posts: 756

3/31/14 9:25:26 AM#37
Is the game really doing bad in West that they trying to milk Chinese players before NCSoft tighten Anet's belt?
  Meowhead

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3/31/14 9:58:13 AM#38
Originally posted by Arthasm
Is the game really doing bad in West that they trying to milk Chinese players before NCSoft tighten Anet's belt?

No, the game is doing really well in the West, but by Chinese law, any MMO in China must be published and distributed by a Chinese company.

Also, a lot of what was written was misunderstandings.

So you're confused on two different levels.  Glad I could straighten that out for you. :)

  MadDemon64

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Joined: 4/19/08
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Why is it that fantasy trolls are vulnerable to fire, but internet trolls thrive on flame wars?

3/31/14 10:03:34 AM#39
After we saw how China screwed up WoW with the removal of all bones (including and especially the ones sticking out of undead models, suck as The Forsaken), why exactly are we surprised?  I mean it could be worse: they could have stolen the code and made their own ripoff game as they have done with countless others, but honestly, why are we suprised exactly?

Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  Eir_S

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4707

GW2 socialist.

3/31/14 10:06:40 AM#40
Originally posted by Meowhead
Originally posted by Arthasm
Is the game really doing bad in West that they trying to milk Chinese players before NCSoft tighten Anet's belt?

No, the game is doing really well in the West, but by Chinese law, any MMO in China must be published and distributed by a Chinese company.

Also, a lot of what was written was misunderstandings.

So you're confused on two different levels.  Glad I could straighten that out for you. :)

You mean people jumped on a bandwagon to attack GW2 before they knew all the facts, even though the OP stated that the source was not 100% trustworthy?

Never happens.  NEVER.

Also, who cares?  Let the Chinese publisher do what it wants, it's China.  Are any of you from China?  If so,do you think it's unfair, being a Chinese player?  Or does it simply fall in line with the way they do things in that country?

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