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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Box Price Sub Fee

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165 posts found
  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 3654

 
OP  3/05/14 7:54:58 AM#1

I just bought South Park: The Stick of Truth, and although I'm having a wonderful time, it made me realize what I was getting for my $60 compared to ESO and other mmorpgs. Any of you upset about paying $60 for ESO, and then having to pay a sub fee, should compare any new release of a single player game, and then you may think twice about complaining.

I have read that you can complete the main quest in South Park in about 9 hours. The side quests and the main quest in about 30 hours. You have 4 classes you could play through for a total of about 120 hours, but I don't usually replay content of this nature again even if it is with another class.

IMHO, mmorpgs are better for the price, you get more content and re-playability, and the price should never be used as a debate issue in these forums.

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  Knotwood

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/08/14
Posts: 1110

3/05/14 8:02:15 AM#2

I agree,  I think 80 bucks for the best game that's came out in over 5 years is a small price to pay considering the crap mmo's that are being released with crap budgets these days.   Value well worth it.

 

I'm sure you'll hear people call this a cash grab, but the fact is...  What game out there that is Free to Play even offers the same level of QUALITY as your going to get in ESO without having to pay out your ass,  only one I can think of that's even half as good quality as ESO would be Rift.  

 

You want high quality, you have to pay for it.  Just like when you buy cheap coat hangers Made in China which cost only 1 buck for 20, and by the next laudry cycle every single one of them are broken,  no thanks.   Id rather spend 80 bucks, pay a sub and get a HIGH QUALITY game.

 

Some people don't even know what the meaning of cash grab really is these days.    A Cash grab is charging your players 60-100 bucks for a ALPHA TEST. 

 

Lets face it, back in 2003 when I first started playing games,  games were $15 a month sub,   if you were to add 3% cost of inflation every year which is $0.45 a year for 12 years straight,  subs should be  $20.40 a month.    Just the fact that subs remained at $15.00 a month for a HIGH QUALITY GAME,  is saying ALOT,  and by no means a cash grab.   If you call 15 dollars a month a cash grab you really really need to get a job....

 

If you think ESO should be the same price as Low Quality Free to Play games, you just don't understand economics.   Its that simple.   When you have HIGH QUALITY you have to pay for it.   The world isn't going to give you a an once of gold for the price of an once of silver that's just how it is.

 

 

  spacebot

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/04
Posts: 149

3/05/14 8:04:27 AM#3

I'm getting the Imperial edition, and not the downloadable one. So no I'm not upset over paying for $60 box. I'm paying a whole lot more than $60. And $60 is normal these days for a new game. Console games kinda made it that way.

And the $15 a month is far far cheaper than regular movie going and I get much much more entertainment for my buck.

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2445

3/05/14 8:10:16 AM#4

No game is worth a sub - period. I pay 60 USD a month for ALL of my cable TV channels - why would I pay 1/4 of that price for one channel? It is ludicrous in these times to have a sub when there are games out there w/o them. AND this game also has a CS - talk about a cash grab - one or the other not both.

 

People talk that the price should NOT in the discussion and I disagree vehemently. The price is actually 60 box + (15 x 12) = 240 a year for a game. You need to think about this in your decisions about games

 

I do not have the entitlement mentality either as I have done sub games in the past but find them full of 'entitled' jokers just because they pay a sub for the game.

 

 

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Gatlan

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/19/13
Posts: 102

3/05/14 8:13:13 AM#5
I bought Thief for $45 at the beginning of last week, as I'm a big fan of the originals.  I finished my first run through by Friday.  I'm sure ESO will keep me occupied for at least twice as long.
  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 3654

 
OP  3/05/14 8:16:34 AM#6
Originally posted by botrytis

No game is worth a sub - period. I pay 60 USD a month for ALL of my cable TV channels - why would I pay 1/4 of that price for one channel? It is ludicrous in these times to have a sub when there are games out there w/o them. AND this game also has a CS - talk about a cash grab - one or the other not both.

 

People talk that the price should NOT in the discussion and I disagree vehemently. The price is actually 60 box + (15 x 12) = 240 a year for a game. You need to think about this in your decisions about games

 

I do not have the entitlement mentality either as I have done sub games in the past but find them full of 'entitled' jokers just because they pay a sub for the game.

 

 

I imagine you pay a sub fee for content, updates, and developers to make those things happen.  Where I'm from that is very cheap entertainment,  Sodas at a vending machine are about $1, this is .50 a day. Nope, not complaining one bit.

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

3/05/14 8:19:08 AM#7
Even better than comparing to other games, compare to going out to a movie.  In an MMORPG, you get more than one hour of entertainment for every dollar you spend, possibly a lot more depending on your time investment.  With a movie, even if you walk to the theater, don't buy any snacks, and watch a matinee, you are still spending 3-4 dollars per hour of entertainment.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2618

110100100

3/05/14 8:24:50 AM#8


Originally posted by botrytis
No game is worth a sub - period. I pay 60 USD a month for ALL of my cable TV channels - why would I pay 1/4 of that price for one channel? It is ludicrous in these times to have a sub when there are games out there w/o them. AND this game also has a CS - talk about a cash grab - one or the other not both.

 

People talk that the price should NOT in the discussion and I disagree vehemently. The price is actually 60 box + (15 x 12) = 240 a year for a game. You need to think about this in your decisions about games

 

I do not have the entitlement mentality either as I have done sub games in the past but find them full of 'entitled' jokers just because they pay a sub for the game.

 

 


when you play the same game for months it is worth it (for me at least) rather than continuing to buy single player games at full price.

and all the F2P mmo games out there are garbage or they are restricted versions of a sub game.

also can you please link me to the ESO cash shop? you don't seem to know what you are tailing about.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4453

It's a combination of Nightingale Armor with the Mod Truebound Deadric Armors

3/05/14 8:25:37 AM#9

It's not about $0, $40, $60, $80, $100, or whatever fee they put on whatever game they want to sell. It's not about entitlement. It boils down to 2 things. 1. "Can I actually afford the game?" In my case, I can, Obviously many of you all cal too. Those who can't, are stopped there. (Obviously) The 2nd point is "Is there a perceived value?" 

 

This is where I am not sure about. I can come to these boards and read everyone's opinions and weed out those that are not well formed and presented and look at those who at least know what they are saying about both good and bad points. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "We've played the game (based only on Beta Events) and we KNOW we like it!" only to see those same posters 1-2 months later delivering their long winded good-bye speech, explaining point by point why the game didn't meet their expectations long term. Then they move on to the next over-hyped game explaining to all why this new game really really honestly and truly (This time for real) is the bestest game evaaarrr. Sorry, but Beta event's mean nothing. I've played in 2 and in both cases, my 60 day opinion was different than my 6 day opinion.

 

At the end of the day, cautious gamers are still left with the question....Is TESO worth the price hike and a monthly fee beyond that? Based on what I have read and seen, I am currently convinced that TESO would be an enjoyable experience for me. I am not convinced it should be the most expensive initial cost for an MMORPG I've ever played.

I feel that the state of the genre is such that a total and complete failure is needed so it can be reborn anew.
I'm actually hoping this new generation of 8 button MMOs will make that happen.

  Poisondwarf

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/13
Posts: 32

3/05/14 8:28:57 AM#10
Originally posted by botrytis

No game is worth a sub - period. I pay 60 USD a month for ALL of my cable TV channels - why would I pay 1/4 of that price for one channel? It is ludicrous in these times to have a sub when there are games out there w/o them. AND this game also has a CS - talk about a cash grab - one or the other not both.

 

Do you get paid to go to work? I do and most other people do so why do you think that devs should work for free ?

The cost of a sub on a daily basis is tiny and I like most other people don't have a problem with it. I prefer the sub model as you tend to get a better community than FTP rubbish and the people who complain about paying a sub are generally just tight with their money. If you don't want to pay the sub then don't pay the game.

Also there is no cash shop!! I wish you would get your facts straight before you post.

  epichokie

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/02/14
Posts: 15

3/05/14 8:36:06 AM#11

Also if you shop around the web to buy the game you will find that you can get the game for less than $60.  I pre ordered from Green Man and only paid $48 and you can also find it on G2A for $48 right now.  So you technically can get almost an extra month of the sub out of the purchase.  I always find that subs keep the games fair.  If you invest more time you reap the rewards of doing so.  If you don't then you don't.  It's an even playing field and some snot nose rich kids can't pay $300 to have the same gear or be the same level as me when I have played the game for a month to get to that point.

The issue is we have grown into a society where the young people feel entitles and feel like everything should just be given to them.  That's why my enjoyment of playing WOW dissipated, they made it much to easy to get items for doing next to nothing that are comparable with items you get for raiding with your guild or PVPing 15-20 hours a week.

 

  Telondariel

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/11/10
Posts: 866

3/05/14 8:39:52 AM#12
Originally posted by botrytis

No game is worth a sub - period. I pay 60 USD a month for ALL of my cable TV channels - why would I pay 1/4 of that price for one channel? It is ludicrous in these times to have a sub when there are games out there w/o them. AND this game also has a CS - talk about a cash grab - one or the other not both.

We all have bills to pay.  $15 a month is very cheap for a hobby that gives many hours of entertainment.  Yes, there are lots of "free" games out there, but I think you are also quite aware of the F2P business model.  Nothing is really free.  But, please keep playing those quality games if that is what you want to do.

 

People talk that the price should NOT in the discussion and I disagree vehemently. The price is actually 60 box + (15 x 12) = 240 a year for a game. You need to think about this in your decisions about games

This isn't breaking news.  "Subscription" is pretty self-explanatory.

 

I do not have the entitlement mentality either as I have done sub games in the past but find them full of 'entitled' jokers just because they pay a sub for the game.

 

You may not be entitled, but you sure are quick to jump into threads of games you have no intention of playing just to get on your soapbox. 

--------------------------------------------

 

For myself, I'm taking the stance of no longer supporting F2P or B2P games.  I've seen the trend sweep the western market in the last couple of years and it's a dark and unnatural beast.  Rather than have a monthly sub, they chisel you in other ways, or create game dynamics that ultimately funnel you into their Cash Shop.  It's a cheesy, dishonest way to run a business in my eyes, and I will no longer take part in it.  GW2 was the straw that broke this camel's back.

 

So, I am going to happily pay ESO's sub.  Not just because Zenimax has a subscription model (that in itself would be silly), but because it is a high quality game with rich content and a very competent Dev team.  I see a future there, so it is a good investment for me.  I'm not a content locust, rather, I prefer to make a game a home for several years.  I paid a sub in EQ2 up until this last monthly cycle, which put me there for 9.7 years.  Before that I was in DAoC and EQ1.  For me, ESO is my next long-term game to play.

  pappacube

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/08/10
Posts: 84

3/05/14 8:40:39 AM#13

I'm guessing most folks that complain are folks without income.  My heart is with you folks without income.  However, I would much rather pay a sub for a game that isn't constantly begging me to to spend money on odds and ends. 

I will say though I think Neverwinter has hit on a very acceptable and viable F2P cash-shop model.  Sure I had to invest in bag and bank space at the start but now I only rarely spend money in the game.

  zwei2

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 337

3/05/14 8:41:06 AM#14
Originally posted by botrytis

No game is worth a sub - period. I pay 60 USD a month for ALL of my cable TV channels - why would I pay 1/4 of that price for one channel? It is ludicrous in these times to have a sub when there are games out there w/o them. AND this game also has a CS - talk about a cash grab - one or the other not both.

 

People talk that the price should NOT in the discussion and I disagree vehemently. The price is actually 60 box + (15 x 12) = 240 a year for a game. You need to think about this in your decisions about games

 

I do not have the entitlement mentality either as I have done sub games in the past but find them full of 'entitled' jokers just because they pay a sub for the game.

 

 

You must be talking about GW2, using real life cash for buying bank space, character slots, buying crafting items and craft to max level...

 

And I believe you should be well aware that people are willing to pay monthly fees to play a game, is because they love the game. They don't moonlight as clowns to entertain you.

The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1185

3/05/14 9:03:54 AM#15

You can't compare the two.

The box price for ESO buys you ZERO hours content. What it buys you is 30 days TIME. It is a RENTAL DEAL. And after 30 days you get to pay a lower rent.

A boxed game gets you whatever content the box provides, good or bad, forever.

 

Rental deals usually look better than up front purchases. As time goes by the cost increases. ESO's price per hour will go up - and before you say extra content they are not going to add 25% to the game every month.  

Usually. The OP used South Park but what about ....a run through of SWTOR for $0. Not comparable .. how about Skyrim Legendary, 2000 hours of content (or whatever) for under $50 say. ESO looks pretty bad compared to both to be honest. And as the price per hour of ESO goes up month by month ........

 

The entitlement argument is bunk - do people who buy houses feel entitled? If you go back to WoW (if you played it) do you feel entitled to all the content released since you last subbed? Bunk. It is about marketing forces, buyer perceptions and market economics. And these days buying things up front is the norm, rental deals have largely gone away and are largely reserved for very expensive products. And when mmos first launched networks were very expensive. Not oday!

 

Zenimax know this - and had two basic choices:

  • Launch like Skyrim: no sub, sell huge, tens of millions of copies and then sell lots and lots of extra content.
  • Launch with a sub, relatively small number of copies - low millions say - hope to get a decent sub base. 
The first is a certainty;  the second is a gamble. No surprise they have concerns. And there are arguments for both of which cash flow is one.
 
Activision with (Bungie's) Destiny and EA with (Respawn's) Titanfall are going with option 1 - with EA using their "optional sub" model with Titanfall. Do Zenimax know something EA and Activision don't ... course they don't, they have decided to gamble.
 
  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 3654

 
OP  3/05/14 9:24:11 AM#16
Originally posted by gervaise1

You can't compare the two.

The box price for ESO buys you ZERO hours content. What it buys you is 30 days TIME. It is a RENTAL DEAL. And after 30 days you get to pay a lower rent.

A boxed game gets you whatever content the box provides, good or bad, forever.

 

Rental deals usually look better than up front purchases. As time goes by the cost increases. ESO's price per hour will go up - and before you say extra content they are not going to add 25% to the game every month.  

Usually. The OP used South Park but what about ....a run through of SWTOR for $0. Not comparable .. how about Skyrim Legendary, 2000 hours of content (or whatever) for under $50 say. ESO looks pretty bad compared to both to be honest. And as the price per hour of ESO goes up month by month ........

 

The entitlement argument is bunk - do people who buy houses feel entitled? If you go back to WoW (if you played it) do you feel entitled to all the content released since you last subbed? Bunk. It is about marketing forces, buyer perceptions and market economics. And these days buying things up front is the norm, rental deals have largely gone away and are largely reserved for very expensive products. And when mmos first launched networks were very expensive. Not oday!

 

Zenimax know this - and had two basic choices:

  • Launch like Skyrim: no sub, sell huge, tens of millions of copies and then sell lots and lots of extra content.
  • Launch with a sub, relatively small number of copies - low millions say - hope to get a decent sub base. 
The first is a certainty;  the second is a gamble. No surprise they have concerns. And there are arguments for both of which cash flow is one.
 
Activision with (Bungie's) Destiny and EA with (Respawn's) Titanfall are going with option 1 - with EA using their "optional sub" model with Titanfall. Do Zenimax know something EA and Activision don't ... course they don't, they have decided to gamble.
 

Well I can compare the two! I have the freedom to do it!

I want entertainment and .50 cents is cheap! You can break it down however you like, make life seem harder than it should be, but to me these are games, not Wall Street.

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  Knotwood

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/08/14
Posts: 1110

3/05/14 9:26:23 AM#17
Originally posted by gervaise1

You can't compare the two.

The box price for ESO buys you ZERO hours content. What it buys you is 30 days TIME. It is a RENTAL DEAL. And after 30 days you get to pay a lower rent.

A boxed game gets you whatever content the box provides, good or bad, forever.

 

Rental deals usually look better than up front purchases. As time goes by the cost increases. ESO's price per hour will go up - and before you say extra content they are not going to add 25% to the game every month.  

Usually. The OP used South Park but what about ....a run through of SWTOR for $0. Not comparable .. how about Skyrim Legendary, 2000 hours of content (or whatever) for under $50 say. ESO looks pretty bad compared to both to be honest. And as the price per hour of ESO goes up month by month ........

 

The entitlement argument is bunk - do people who buy houses feel entitled? If you go back to WoW (if you played it) do you feel entitled to all the content released since you last subbed? Bunk. It is about marketing forces, buyer perceptions and market economics. And these days buying things up front is the norm, rental deals have largely gone away and are largely reserved for very expensive products. And when mmos first launched networks were very expensive. Not oday!

 

Zenimax know this - and had two basic choices:

  • Launch like Skyrim: no sub, sell huge, tens of millions of copies and then sell lots and lots of extra content.
  • Launch with a sub, relatively small number of copies - low millions say - hope to get a decent sub base. 
The first is a certainty;  the second is a gamble. No surprise they have concerns. And there are arguments for both of which cash flow is one.
 
Activision with (Bungie's) Destiny and EA with (Respawn's) Titanfall are going with option 1 - with EA using their "optional sub" model with Titanfall. Do Zenimax know something EA and Activision don't ... course they don't, they have decided to gamble.
 

I think you got entitled to something for free, and entitled to something you paid for all confused.

 

Try working a job,  minimum wage can pay for this easy if you don't have a alcohol, drug or cigerate addiction,  just work, it make you feel good, can your love of money really be that high that you would pass up a HIGH QUALITY game like ESO over only $15 bucks a month?

 

By the way, SWTOR isn't free, its a sub game, unless you want really low quality gaming for free.  Have at it.  Another person who wants an once of gold for the price of an once of silver.  

 

Also SKYRIM legendary is a OFFLINE game,  I play MMO's to have social interaction, ESO gives me Skyrim WITH social interaction, well worth it.

 

 

  Righteous_Rock

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/19/14
Posts: 273

3/05/14 9:32:40 AM#18
Originally posted by Amjoco

I just bought South Park: The Stick of Truth, and although I'm having a wonderful time, it made me realize what I was getting for my $60 compared to ESO and other mmorpgs. Any of you upset about paying $60 for ESO, and then having to pay a sub fee, should compare any new release of a single player game, and then you may think twice about complaining.

I have read that you can complete the main quest in South Park in about 9 hours. The side quests and the main quest in about 30 hours. You have 4 classes you could play through for a total of about 120 hours, but I don't usually replay content of this nature again even if it is with another class.

IMHO, mmorpgs are better for the price, you get more content and re-playability, and the price should never be used as a debate issue in these forums.

 

Lol compare ESO and South Park? Ever play Skyrim? GTA5? GW2? BF4? Diablo3? Ever play Neverwinter? It's free, Rift, Swtor? They are free! They are all better than ESO especially the buy to play games. ESO should be $40 buy to play.
  alicorn

Novice Member

Joined: 4/10/04
Posts: 150

3/05/14 9:37:44 AM#19
Originally posted by botrytis

No game is worth a sub - period. I pay 60 USD a month for ALL of my cable TV channels - why would I pay 1/4 of that price for one channel? It is ludicrous in these times to have a sub when there are games out there w/o them. AND this game also has a CS - talk about a cash grab - one or the other not both.

 

People talk that the price should NOT in the discussion and I disagree vehemently. The price is actually 60 box + (15 x 12) = 240 a year for a game. You need to think about this in your decisions about games

 

I do not have the entitlement mentality either as I have done sub games in the past but find them full of 'entitled' jokers just because they pay a sub for the game.

 

 

I'm sorry, but what???

So you only watch TV for 1 month and then you're done watching TV for the year?  You just admitted to paying a $60 per month subscription fee for your cable, but we're stupid for paying a subscription fee for a game?  What were you thinking?

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 3654

 
OP  3/05/14 9:40:42 AM#20
Originally posted by Righteous_Rock
Originally posted by Amjoco

I just bought South Park: The Stick of Truth, and although I'm having a wonderful time, it made me realize what I was getting for my $60 compared to ESO and other mmorpgs. Any of you upset about paying $60 for ESO, and then having to pay a sub fee, should compare any new release of a single player game, and then you may think twice about complaining.

I have read that you can complete the main quest in South Park in about 9 hours. The side quests and the main quest in about 30 hours. You have 4 classes you could play through for a total of about 120 hours, but I don't usually replay content of this nature again even if it is with another class.

IMHO, mmorpgs are better for the price, you get more content and re-playability, and the price should never be used as a debate issue in these forums.

 

Lol compare ESO and South Park? Ever play Skyrim? GTA5? GW2? BF4? Diablo3? Ever play Neverwinter? It's free, Rift, Swtor? They are free! They are all better than ESO especially the buy to play games. ESO should be $40 buy to play.

But in those games is there PvP, crafting and selling to others, group dungeons, group PvE, and so much more benefits of an mmorpg. Not to mention guild and community are huge parts of these games and you don't get any of that in a single player game.

Read previous posts about f2p games. That is an entirely different matter.

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

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