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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Elder Scrolls Online: Zenimax - A Good Guy Developer

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109 posts found
  Azzras

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/10/14
Posts: 422

One Shot, Two Kills.

3/05/14 3:57:07 PM#61
Originally posted by JJ82
Originally posted by orbitxo

That photo should be for the Zenimax is the best company to ever make an MMO comment in the article.

There is no defense for such a comment and really makes the entire site look like it now has no credibility at all. Such articles should be for blogs and propaganda sites like Infowars.

Seriously to even THINK that a company that hasn't even RELEASED an MMO yet is the best ever.......my god. This is the saddest thing I have ever seen on an actual gaming site before. If there was a hall of shame for gaming articles, this would be the centerpiece.

Um, isn't this just a blog for one of the contributors to write his opinion?

Overreact much?

  User Deleted
3/05/14 3:57:37 PM#62
Originally posted by Alders

I'd hold off till, you know, the game is released at least.

Bioware was one of the "good guys" as well.

Bioware stopped being one of the good guys when they sold out to EA. That was way before swtor was even launched.

  Beelzebobbie

Elite Member

Joined: 1/03/09
Posts: 366

If DaoC was so fun why don't you just play it?

3/05/14 4:01:21 PM#63

I don't think you can judge them just yet, dudes this game is hyped and in beta. The real judgement will come when players scream for more content or bug fixes, take away lagg problems and so on.

It's at this time the should be judged, not before. If they fail to deliver what players want or takes to much time with updates, then nobody will call them "A good guy developer".

This is there time of judgement not before, am I wrong? The only thing that has been given so far is a game in beta.

Game developers are like politicians, they will say anything to get you to buy there game and what happends after thats when there true colors will show, are the good or are they bad?

  Juice2000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/28/13
Posts: 80

3/05/14 4:10:16 PM#64

As much as i like what ZMO have done i dont actually believe they are listening to the player base instead they are bowing to the media outlets.

ZMO and other developers knows more than 50% of beta testers and future players dont visit all the forums. Out of the 50% that roughly 25% wont post and will continue to sub even if they arnt completely happy with everything in game. Whether they cant be bothered or simply take the game for what it is they simply dont. So generally they dont make such big adjustments before release because that remaining 25% arnt enough to effect game and sub sales initially.

However media outlets tend to reach near enough all 100% whether it be through forum, magazines, videos etc. So they have much more chance to effect pre sales and initial subs alot harder. The proof two of the biggest things changed, First person view and the starting areas were changed when the media were given permission to test and talk about these features openly not months before hand when the players and testers brought it up.

So in fact its much more likely they changed both features as they were worried about the negative effect the press were going to have on initial sales and subs as they was alot of negative about both at the times.

  winter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2230

3/05/14 4:45:47 PM#65
Originally posted by JJ82

wow...seriously? Are things so bad that something like this needs to be written?

"So I ask you, is Zenimax one of the best companies that has developed an MMO? I think so"

Literally made my jaw DROP. Its like something off of Infowars.

 Proving once again that no matter how much time and money you spend to try and make your player base happy haters are gonna hate. They cant't even bear to grudgingly admit that ZOS might actually be trying to make the game better for the player base in the slightest.

  addypop

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/26/14
Posts: 2

3/05/14 4:49:29 PM#66
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

" So I ask you, is Zenimax one of the best companies that has developed an MMO? I think so...." 

Aren't you getting ahead of yourself here? What MMO have they developed? Last I checked TESO hadn't released yet. How about we let the game release and let everyone have some real time in the game outside Beta Events? Then we can determine the kind of developer Zenimax is before we call them the "Good Guys".

 

Actually, I can't agree more... While I agree they worked hard and did a good job by the looks of it, lets just not haste on throwing medals before the game proves itself after launch.

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6503

"I fight so you don't have to."

3/05/14 4:51:26 PM#67
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by MintberryCrunch

Yep they really went downhill with that little Skyrim game that sold over 20 million copies.

Yeah, and man, look at all the customers McDonald's has every day.  They must make the highest quality, best tasting food in the world!  Or those Twilight movies, those must be great art, look at how many tickets they sold!  And that Dancing with the Stars, it's definitely the best show on tv.

I absolutely hate this argument. 

Pointless. So pointless. Logically fallible as well. So easy to break down and invalidate.

Yet, you do no such thing...

  winter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2230

3/05/14 5:02:05 PM#68
Originally posted by Garbrac
Originally posted by Alders

I'd hold off till, you know, the game is released at least.

Bioware was one of the "good guys" as well.

BioWare never listened to the community when the bugs or features needed to be fixed. Some of the bugs I reported during Closed beta are sitll in the game LOL

 

 Well he did say "was" That being basically before EA bought Bioware and turned it into the mess it is today. SWTOR wasn't all bad but it was a creation of EAoware and IMO flawed by EA's approach to making money first and good games second.

  winter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2230

3/05/14 5:09:51 PM#69
Originally posted by Drakynn

Explorer Pack for me makes anything else moot.

Either stick to your guns about a feature they argued was a needed part of their game design and show you have a set or get rid of it for everyone entirely.

Using it to sell preorders says to me that that's all it was ever intended for and you should expect more of the same shady practices in the future.

 

 Humm speaking of shady practices Your paying to alpha test a game for SOE the material designed in EQL by players will then (if its good) be used by SOE in EQN at a fraction of a cost it would cost them from art developers/designers. a Sure win for SOE as long aas they can get paying customers to do 50% of the work for them. 

  Galadourn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 1050

3/05/14 5:51:40 PM#70

Zenimax announced TESO in May 2012 and then spent almost two years tweaking the game after the initlal flood of negative comments.

IMHO Zenimax invested more than they should in the IP and rushed for damage control in this 2-year period. They changed many things, but this only proves that they had no clear vision for their game from the start.

We'll see how it pans out. However I'm not very optimistic because they clearly had a DAoC type of game in their mind and after all the criticism tried to make it more of an ES type of game. Usually when you mix two different game types you get...a mess. 

We'll see.

http://kck.st/Xo38HT

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

3/05/14 6:10:25 PM#71
Originally posted by Galadourn

Zenimax announced the ESO in May 2012 and then spent almost two years tweaking the game after the initlal flood of negative comments.

IMHO Zenimax invested more than they should in the IP and rushed for damage control in this 2-year period. They changed many things, but this only proves that they had no clear vision for their game from the start.

We'll see how it pans out. However I'm not very optimistic because they clearly had a DAoC type of game in their mind and after all the criticism tried to make it more of an ES type of game. Usually when you mix two different game types you get...a mess. 

We'll see.

I think they had a very clear vision of what they wanted to do with the game, but the path from point A to point B on such a long development is often filled with unexpected detours. In an industry where more often than not you have developers ducking their heads and charging right through community criticism, ZM has kept an open ear and proved that they can bend where necessary.

That's commendable, imo.

  Arezius444

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/05/14
Posts: 2

3/05/14 6:46:35 PM#72

Does companies that listen to whiner make good games ?

 

People that don't like to take their time, explore, read, etc... shouldn't belong into a true RPG anyway, and to me The Elder Scrolls should be true RPGs. Try to make it something else and you'll lose the fans and the people that are looking for an RPG. I'm not sure that's a good move.

Making this kind of decision is what could ruin a good game. At least that's what I believe.

And you speak about Blizzard, most complains I've heard about Blizzard and WoW is all about that. And Trion is actually making the same mistake with Rift (where most old time player have gone, and the rest should leave soon).

 

I think Zenimax should think harder about that. They should make a better experience of this starter zone instead of making it optional.

 
  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17017

3/05/14 6:58:22 PM#73
Originally posted by CazNeerg

 

How good something is depends on where you are looking from, and what you are looking for.    The essence of the RPG is choice, both mechanically and narratively, and Skyrim offers few of either kind of choice.

I believe that's my point.  And I included some examples.

Though I disagree about "the essence of the rpg is choice both mechanically an narratively and skyrim offers few of either ..."

Skyrim offers a huge amount of choice and what's more it allows you to choose without the game getting in the way.

Does it offer you a lot of scripted choice? Meaning, does every quest offer several variants depending on play style? no, no it doesn't. but if you are "role playing" then in many cases you can take matters into your own hands.

There are some chairs thrown into the way such as a player can't kill everyone (and I wish they adopted the morrowind solution here) but there are reasons they didn't allow that.

But no choice? I have a thief that's just a thief. I have a paladin that never touches magic other than healing. I have an "Elric" type character who only gets healing from food or his sword.

I can choose not to take a quest if it doesn't fit my character. I think one's mileage may vary depending on one's imagination and willingness to do/not do various things.

It certainly has as much choice as oblvion, with the exception of the spell making altars.

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

3/05/14 7:20:35 PM#74
Originally posted by Sovrath

I believe that's my point.  And I included some examples.

Though I disagree about "the essence of the rpg is choice both mechanically an narratively and skyrim offers few of either ..."

Skyrim offers a huge amount of choice and what's more it allows you to choose without the game getting in the way.

Does it offer you a lot of scripted choice? Meaning, does every quest offer several variants depending on play style? no, no it doesn't. but if you are "role playing" then in many cases you can take matters into your own hands.

There are some chairs thrown into the way such as a player can't kill everyone (and I wish they adopted the morrowind solution here) but there are reasons they didn't allow that.

But no choice? I have a thief that's just a thief. I have a paladin that never touches magic other than healing. I have an "Elric" type character who only gets healing from food or his sword.

I can choose not to take a quest if it doesn't fit my character. I think one's mileage may vary depending on one's imagination and willingness to do/not do various things. 

Which brings us to the difference between RP, and an RPG.  You can RP anywhere and anytime.  A chat room, an empty field, with others, by yourself.  An RPG actually provides you with choices, and then gives you different consequences which can actually be observed within the game depending on which choices you made.  Skyrim rarely does that.  It does a couple of times, but for the most part it provides you with quest lines which you can either do, or not do, and if you do them they always go exactly the same way, narratively speaking.  It isn't a real choice set if it consists solely of "Do X and get consequence Y" or "Don't do anything, and get no consequences."

On the narrative side of things, RPGs are like interactive novels or movies, where your choices alter (even if only superficially, in most games) the course of the narrative.  Recent Elder Scrolls games are more like collections of short stories, where the only choice you have is whether you are going to read every story, or skip some of them.

And that's just talking about choice in terms of narrative.  Choice in terms of mechanics is also extremely limited in Skyrim.  Hell, any game in the Mass Effect series has more compelling RPG mechanics than Skyrim, and BioWare is not known for it's gameplay quality.  It's kind of sad to me, given that mechanically speaking Daggerfall was one of the greatest RPGs ever made, and now Bethesda churns out games which in terms of gameplay are little more than glorified shooters.

Though I do understand the point you are trying to make.  The first time I played Skyrim (on a rented console copy while waiting for the PC price to drop) I did literally nothing but the Thieves' Guild and Dark Brotherhood quests, along with a few of the Daedric ones, because I have found those consistently entertaining in every Elder Scrolls game which included them, even those where I found the game as a whole to be somewhat lacking.  Those quests fit the kind of character I like to play.  But you shouldn't have to, in an RPG, know everything about the outcome of a quest chain in order to decide whether it fits your character to pursue that quest chain.  You should actually have choices during the quest chain so that you reach an outcome that fits your character without having to search out spoilers first.

Which is somewhere where, at least in the early going, ESO excels.  I don't know how many, if any, of the choices will have long term consequences, but there are a *lot* of choices scattered throughout the various quests, which clearly have a huge impact on the characters involved.  (Even if that impact is mostly implied, and we never actually see the consequences.)  There are more meaningful choices, in terms of implied narrative consequences, in the first fifteen levels of ESO than there were in Skyrim and Oblivion combined.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  Pyuk

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 657

3/05/14 7:25:14 PM#75
Originally posted by orbitxo
Originally posted by Righteous_Rock
This is the mmorpg.com covers thier ass save face article. If this isn't icing on the cake before launch, then I might as well be playing mmorpgs with a bunch of dead dogs.

I lol'd. That pic is epic. And I reserve the right to not call Zenimax "TEH BESTEST DEVELOPARS EVAR!!!111128937!" until after the game is live. Frankly, so many changes this late in development screams more of desperation than listening to their fanbois. At least to me it does. But I'm old and crotchety.

I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.

  Damedius

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/13
Posts: 332

3/05/14 7:45:00 PM#76
Originally posted by JJ82

wow...seriously? Are things so bad that something like this needs to be written?

"So I ask you, is Zenimax one of the best companies that has developed an MMO? I think so"

Literally made my jaw DROP. Its like something off of Infowars.

Any mainstream news channel would be much more accurate. Since they are shameless shills for the US and it's corporate interests.

  iridescence

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 945

3/05/14 7:49:06 PM#77
Originally posted by JJ82

wow...seriously? Are things so bad that something like this needs to be written?

"So I ask you, is Zenimax one of the best companies that has developed an MMO? I think so"

Literally made my jaw DROP. Its like something off of Infowars.

Yeah  this whole thing sounds like it was written by a 12 year old. No offense to anyone but you must be really desperate for articles for this site.

 

  b92303008

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/12
Posts: 4

3/05/14 8:33:35 PM#78
Not "no one" found the starter islands enjoyable. They are not that cool but they are also not boring or meaningless at all.
  Ramsay

Novice Member

Joined: 10/20/13
Posts: 10

3/05/14 9:04:06 PM#79
Originally posted by JJ82

wow...seriously? Are things so bad that something like this needs to be written?

Yes.

  Thorqemada

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/30/04
Posts: 1198

3/05/14 9:16:48 PM#80

Wow, is the situation already that bad?

Games need sort of Art Direction and Gameplay Direction, Development Direction, you can let customer Feedback flow into design decisions but at some Point you need to stick to you decisions and i would not have reimplemented Hands for example.

If you go for cheap textures bcs your MMO can not handle more stick with it and say so.

If you have Artists, that have defected artistic visions by years of WoWing shapes and forms eat it or hire different ones that can draw a Bookshelf that looks like a TES Bookshelf looks (that have a Realistic Art Approach and not like a WoW-Bookshelf with low quality TES-Textures).

If you make a console game do not pretend to have a good UI, you do not, simply have an ompitmized UI for console use.

Etc.

Zenimax is not a Good Guy - a Good Guy is a Good Guy and many a Good Guy may work at Zenimax and i feel sorry for them.

Critic on the game has nothing to do with being a Good Guy, it has to to with the expectations that come from making a game with a certain IP, a certain Artistic Approach/Art Direction of a certain Quality etc.

They still can make Coke out of this Pepsi but i wont say its Coke when it ends up Pepsi.

"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"

MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
MWO Machinima - Revival (Clan Invasion): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saheVNMp7qQ

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