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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Elder Scrolls Online: Zenimax - A Good Guy Developer

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109 posts found
  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7735

Logic be damned!

3/05/14 1:07:43 PM#21
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by MintberryCrunch

Yep they really went downhill with that little Skyrim game that sold over 20 million copies.

Yeah, and man, look at all the customers McDonald's has every day.  They must make the highest quality, best tasting food in the world!  Or those Twilight movies, those must be great art, look at how many tickets they sold!  And that Dancing with the Stars, it's definitely the best show on tv.

I absolutely hate this argument. 

Pointless. So pointless. Logically fallible as well. So easy to break down and invalidate.

Now Playing: Destiny

  dadown

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/04
Posts: 202

3/05/14 1:15:08 PM#22

I've had some fun in the beta, but even last weekend's beta event still had a lot of significant bugs that prevented quest completions. With the release coming next month, the bugs should have already been fixed, especially the one where the UI gets stuck after a dialog so you can't move.

If it was f2p, I'd be there on release day, but I'm not paying for a box + sub when it still needs work.

  blazzen67

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/13
Posts: 67

3/05/14 1:16:10 PM#23
Originally posted by maddog15a

There a company nether good or bad.  They're not your friend, they just want your money, like any other company.  Keep in mind only select few have tested the current version of the game.  The beta version is 3 months old(which makes no sense stress testing it but whatever).  So we have no idea how the current version will due with a the launch load.  Then there is the frequency of updates, we have no data on that, no history even.

So calling Zenimax one of the best companies the has developed an mmo is silly.

i cant think of many developers that would change their game this close to launch, can you??, try hundreds that have been testing the current build of the game, not "a select few". google the .180 patch notes to ESO and you will see they have changed and fixed a ton of things in game..they have stated they will have meaningful updates added to the game every 4 weeks, they have already finished with 4 updates for after launch and they continue to work on more. If they arent one of the best companies now, they are headed in the right direction in my opinion. and by the way, they will have one more beta test with the current build of the game before early access on the 30th of this month. If you actually did some research and asked the right people you would find all the data you want on this game.

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

3/05/14 1:16:10 PM#24
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by CazNeerg

Yeah, and man, look at all the customers McDonald's has every day.  They must make the highest quality, best tasting food in the world!  Or those Twilight movies, those must be great art, look at how many tickets they sold!  And that Dancing with the Stars, it's definitely the best show on tv.

I absolutely hate this argument. 

Pointless. So pointless. Logically fallible as well. So easy to break down and invalidate.

Then why didn't you?  Please, explain to us how the mere fact of something being more popular proves that it has higher quality.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  Telondariel

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/10
Posts: 882

3/05/14 1:18:26 PM#25
Originally posted by JJ82
Originally posted by orbitxo

That photo should be for the Zenimax is the best company to ever make an MMO comment in the article.

There is no defense for such a comment and really makes the entire site look like it now has no credibility at all. Such articles should be for blogs and propaganda sites like Infowars.

Seriously to even THINK that a company that hasn't even RELEASED an MMO yet is the best ever.......my god. This is the saddest thing I have ever seen on an actual gaming site before. If there was a hall of shame for gaming articles, this would be the centerpiece.

"..is Zenimax one of the best companies that has developed an MMO? I think so, strictly because they are concerned about their player experience"

 

I think if you are going to criticize someone's article, you should at least get the quote and context right.  Otherwise, you just end up with egg on your face.

 

Ryan posed a question:  "IS Zenimax ONE of the best companies.."    <---- notice the stressors there.

 

You translated that into him saying that "Zenimax is the best company ever", and proceeded to rant.  Nice try though.

 

  SetEssential

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/13
Posts: 14

3/05/14 1:20:02 PM#26
I don't really think that change was needed or praiseworthy. Most Elder Scrolls games are slow leveling at the start which may seem boring for some people. It seems like no one has any patience anymore.
  Alders

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1704

I cannot fiddle but I can make a great state of a small city.

3/05/14 1:21:45 PM#27

I'd hold off till, you know, the game is released at least.

Bioware was one of the "good guys" as well.

  CrazKanuk

Elite Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 1055

3/05/14 1:24:23 PM#28
Originally posted by bcbully
So far, so good. Fast reaction time and competent development. 
 
edit - for the record OP,  I've been thinking about this too.

To be fair, though, Bethesda should have lots of experience dealing with bugs by now :) BAZINGA!

Crazkanuk

----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------

  Maric

Novice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 66

http://paganrites.wordpress.com/

3/05/14 1:24:51 PM#29
Author makes a good point. It's pretty amazing the scope of changes made so late in development. I'm happy with the changes and look forward to watching TES O mature.
  blazzen67

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/13
Posts: 67

3/05/14 1:27:16 PM#30
Originally posted by SetEssential
I don't really think that change was needed or praiseworthy. Most Elder Scrolls games are slow leveling at the start which may seem boring for some people. It seems like no one has any patience anymore.
 

now that i can agree with...some players feel they have to be the first to max level in an MMO like the game is only going to be out for a month instead of years..or they think they get some kind of prize that doesnt exist if they do.

  Garbrac

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 12

3/05/14 1:28:00 PM#31
Originally posted by Alders

I'd hold off till, you know, the game is released at least.

Bioware was one of the "good guys" as well.

BioWare never listened to the community when the bugs or features needed to be fixed. Some of the bugs I reported during Closed beta are sitll in the game LOL

  Xenrae

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/02/12
Posts: 3

3/05/14 1:29:37 PM#32
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by MintberryCrunch

Yep they really went downhill with that little Skyrim game that sold over 20 million copies.

Yeah, and man, look at all the customers McDonald's has every day.  They must make the highest quality, best tasting food in the world!  Or those Twilight movies, those must be great art, look at how many tickets they sold!  And that Dancing with the Stars, it's definitely the best show on tv.

I absolutely hate this argument. 

Pointless. So pointless. Logically fallible as well. So easy to break down and invalidate.

Not at all logically fallible.  Skyrim was popular, that doesn't make it the best.  From my point of view, Oblivion was ten times better.

It is good that Zenimax is listening to the community.  Let's hope they keep it up. The ego-stroking in this article is entirely unnecessary though.  The game has not been released, and these accolades have not been earned.

And the game needs a marketplace.  Chat is going to be spammed to death with WTS and WTB.  A game should not be so intent on being different that it ignores game systems with a proven history, just to make the point.

  Yellowbeardd

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/07
Posts: 83

3/05/14 1:36:44 PM#33

This is the first mmo after WoW that got me involved to the point i can't get enough and want to keep playing, i've played almost every other mmo that came out since and could never find my place in them to keep going but ESo is the first game for me, and i say me since all people opinions are different.

 

You might think they are a new company first time making an mmo , that may be true to some of the people working there but they have the dark age of camelot team and other top mmo makers, with some of the best RPG experts making this game and they do listen and change the game to what the fans want to there best ability without wrecking the mmo aspect but i have high hopes for this game if they keep that up.

yellowbeardd Xfire Miniprofile
  JJ82

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/13
Posts: 943

3/05/14 1:38:34 PM#34
Originally posted by Telondariel

"..is Zenimax one of the best companies that has developed an MMO? I think so, strictly because they are concerned about their player experience"

I think if you are going to criticize someone's article, you should at least get the quote and context right.  Otherwise, you just end up with egg on your face.

Ryan posed a question:  "IS Zenimax ONE of the best companies.."    <---- notice the stressors there.

You translated that into him saying that "Zenimax is the best company ever", and proceeded to rant.  Nice try though.

1. Read the very first comment here. Now go read what he says right after that, talking about how they raised the bar on Blizzard. That clearly says where he ranks Zenimax. Where is the egg now?

2. The entire article is based on building up the reputation of a company that has not even released a game yet in ways that are mind boggling. The entire First Person issue was one of the MINOR issues. The major issues in the TES community where the lack of a complete open world AS IN NO CLOSED FACTION LANDS. No racial/faction locks, No class locks, no crafting limitations and no focus on end game PvP. First person was ranked right where lore changes were, lower on the totem pole but still there.

Their focus on first person was a distraction away from the major issues and they changed non of them. Adding a way around race/faction locks on the pre-order just angered people more.

3. The company has not released a game, to place them at or near the top of the list is 100% ridiculous to say the least, as well as attempting to defend it.

"People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  orbitxo

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/06
Posts: 1169

3/05/14 1:39:16 PM#35

iam looking forward to see what my monthly sub will get me...i have yet to see the ever growing new patch to be released at due date!

April is a big month for Z!

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

3/05/14 1:44:39 PM#36

Explorer Pack for me makes anything else moot.

Either stick to your guns about a feature they argued was a needed part of their game design and show you have a set or get rid of it for everyone entirely.

Using it to sell preorders says to me that that's all it was ever intended for and you should expect more of the same shady practices in the future.

  Telondariel

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/10
Posts: 882

3/05/14 1:47:18 PM#37
Originally posted by JJ82
Originally posted by Telondariel

"..is Zenimax one of the best companies that has developed an MMO? I think so, strictly because they are concerned about their player experience"

I think if you are going to criticize someone's article, you should at least get the quote and context right.  Otherwise, you just end up with egg on your face.

Ryan posed a question:  "IS Zenimax ONE of the best companies.."    <---- notice the stressors there.

You translated that into him saying that "Zenimax is the best company ever", and proceeded to rant.  Nice try though.

1. Read the very first comment here. Now go read what he says right after that, talking about how they raised the bar on Blizzard. That clearly says where he ranks Zenimax. Where is the egg now?

2. The entire article is based on building up the reputation of a company that has not even released a game yet in ways that are mind boggling. The entire First Person issue was one of the MINOR issues. The major issues in the TES community where the lack of a complete open world AS IN NO CLOSED FACTION LANDS. No racial/faction locks, No class locks, no crafting limitations and no focus on end game PvP. First person was ranked right where lore changes were, lower on the totem pole but still there.

Their focus on first person was a distraction away from the major issues and they changed non of them. Adding a way around race/faction locks on the pre-order just angered people more.

3. The company has not released a game, to place them at or near the top of the list is 100% ridiculous to say the least, as well as attempting to defend it.

[mod edit]  As for the article itself, I simply don't see the need to have the level of negative criticism you put out.  I guess it's just a matter of perception.  I find the article gives kudos to a Dev team that has, so far, acted positively towards community criticism to help create the best product at launch.  Ryan simply recognized that, and gave praise where, imho, it was deserved. 

 

  maddog15a

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/09/07
Posts: 84

3/05/14 1:55:33 PM#38
Originally posted by blazzen67
Originally posted by maddog15a

There a company nether good or bad.  They're not your friend, they just want your money, like any other company.  Keep in mind only select few have tested the current version of the game.  The beta version is 3 months old(which makes no sense stress testing it but whatever).  So we have no idea how the current version will due with a the launch load.  Then there is the frequency of updates, we have no data on that, no history even.

So calling Zenimax one of the best companies the has developed an mmo is silly.

i cant think of many developers that would change their game this close to launch, can you??, try hundreds that have been testing the current build of the game, not "a select few". google the .180 patch notes to ESO and you will see they have changed and fixed a ton of things in game..they have stated they will have meaningful updates added to the game every 4 weeks, they have already finished with 4 updates for after launch and they continue to work on more. If they arent one of the best companies now, they are headed in the right direction in my opinion. and by the way, they will have one more beta test with the current build of the game before early access on the 30th of this month. If you actually did some research and asked the right people you would find all the data you want on this game.

"They have stated..." We have seen nothing yet so no there is no data on the quality or frequency of their updates.  100s of players is a select few when it comes to testing an mmo.  Devcat, Carbine, Funcom, Bluehole, GGG, and many more have made changes this close to launch of a mmo.  Hell Devcat added entire new skill set 1 day before launch of there f2p mmo.  Zenimax, has yet to do anything that hasn't been done before as an mmo developer.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17231

3/05/14 1:57:16 PM#39
Originally posted by Xenrae
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by MintberryCrunch

Yep they really went downhill with that little Skyrim game that sold over 20 million copies.

Yeah, and man, look at all the customers McDonald's has every day.  They must make the highest quality, best tasting food in the world!  Or those Twilight movies, those must be great art, look at how many tickets they sold!  And that Dancing with the Stars, it's definitely the best show on tv.

I absolutely hate this argument. 

Pointless. So pointless. Logically fallible as well. So easy to break down and invalidate.

Not at all logically fallible.  Skyrim was popular, that doesn't make it the best.  From my point of view, Oblivion was ten times better.

It is good that Zenimax is listening to the community.  Let's hope they keep it up. The ego-stroking in this article is entirely unnecessary though.  The game has not been released, and these accolades have not been earned.

And the game needs a marketplace.  Chat is going to be spammed to death with WTS and WTB.  A game should not be so intent on being different that it ignores game systems with a proven history, just to make the point.

And a lot of people hated Oblivion and felt it was the worst of the games, especially with the level scaling.

He's kind of right, it's not a great argument.

McDonald's might not make the "best" food in the world if you are comparing to 5 star restaurants but maybe they make the best fast food in the world? Or maybe they are a great convenient fast food restaurant and one of the best at providing that service.

If they were horrible no one would eat there no matter how much marketing. But that's subjective.

Additionally, if 1 million people love McDonald's and think it's the greatest and 6 people think it's the worse crap on the face of the planet then it's hard to really argue that "they are the worst crap on the face of the planet" except for those 6 people.  But again it depends upon the criteria and is very subjective.

Many people LOVE the Twilight books/films so they have to be great on some level. They have to speak to people on some level.

here is a decent video by one person who, though he also felt there were weak parts of skyrim, felt there were actually some very strong points in the game. Stronger than previous games. And I can't say I disagree with his assessment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEI4yS7sFEw

 

  chriswsm

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 388

Never make anything idiot proof as someone will make a better idiot.

3/05/14 1:57:54 PM#40

Very well written article

 

Sadly while reading the comments I am reminded why I hardly every visit MMORPG.com anymore.   Its not the site.  Its not the staff.  Its the grumpy kids.  Every year most of the community seems to be a lot more grumpy, demanding and negative that the previous year.  

I used to visit this site a lot however in recent years it has become the home of negative forum posts, illogical opinions and tantrums so I visit less often.

Played or Beta'd: UO / DAOC / Horizons / EQ2 / DDO / EVE / Archlord / PirateKingsOnline / Tabula Rasa / LOTRO / AOC / Champions / Darkfall / Mortal Online / DCUO / Rift / STO / SWTOR / TSW

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