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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Do you think ESO will eventually give in to the F2P or B2P model?

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243 posts found
  Krampus

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/12
Posts: 17

3/07/14 2:23:13 AM#121

I just cancelled my sub on SWTOR which I held for quite awhile and one thing I learned while playing that game is that the same people who complain about subs are also the same people who whine about a F2P SWTOR being too restrictive. It seems to me that a lot of people are just looking for a MMO handout.

 

Whether ESO goes F2P or not is entirely determined how Zenimax handles it. I played the beta now the last 3 times and after the second beta I became hooked and will gladly pay a sub to continue playing. However if they get lazy in regards to new content and/or decide to open a cash shop like SWTOR did I will definitely consider going to get my fix elsewhere.

 

I miss the old days  before WoW when MMOs didn't try to cater  their games to everyone. You either liked it or you didn't and you moved on to other greener MMO pastures if that  was the  case.

 

 

  cronius77

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1373

3/07/14 2:29:53 AM#122
Originally posted by Krampus

I just cancelled my sub on SWTOR which I held for quite awhile and one thing I learned while playing that game is that the same people who complain about subs are also the same people who whine about a F2P SWTOR being too restrictive. It seems to me that a lot of people are just looking for a MMO handout.

 

Whether ESO goes F2P or not is entirely determined how Zenimax handles it. I played the beta now the last 3 times and after the second beta I became hooked and will gladly pay a sub to continue playing. However if they get lazy in regards to new content and/or decide to open a cash shop like SWTOR did I will definitely consider going to get my fix elsewhere.

 

I miss the old days  before WoW when MMOs didn't try to cater  their games to everyone. You either liked it or you didn't and you moved on to other greener MMO pastures if that  was the  case.

 

 

while I tend to agree with you on the mmo handout for free to play I really think using SWTOR as a comparison is not very fair. That game is the most restrictive of the free to play games. While most people whom spend money on free to play games that do not like a sub fee are buying mounts and bag space, star wars is charging those customers for action bars sprint and basic functional abilities. This game kinda sets itself up for the hate it gets here because majority of the game is based around the cash shop now unless you want to run a 15 dollar a month fee. I personally do not think SWTOR is worth the 15 dollars a month for various reasons but im sure some do think so. But to players having to unlock all this stuff its a turn off and a deterant to playing or trying out new patches.

On ESO going free I highly doubt it unless they drop the ball, at least for a couple of years. As long as people do not leave in droves like SWTOR at launch I highly doubt you are going to see this game go free to play anytime soon. I personally think the game is worth the 15 dollar a month fee so I will be supporting it regardless , if it goes free to play or not if Im still enjoying the game when the time comes if it ever does.

  Swids2010

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 238

3/07/14 2:33:44 AM#123
They have said a few times during development that there is no way this game works in a F2P model.
  muffins89

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 1331

3/07/14 2:37:45 AM#124


Originally posted by cronius77

Originally posted by Krampus I just cancelled my sub on SWTOR which I held for quite awhile and one thing I learned while playing that game is that the same people who complain about subs are also the same people who whine about a F2P SWTOR being too restrictive. It seems to me that a lot of people are just looking for a MMO handout.   Whether ESO goes F2P or not is entirely determined how Zenimax handles it. I played the beta now the last 3 times and after the second beta I became hooked and will gladly pay a sub to continue playing. However if they get lazy in regards to new content and/or decide to open a cash shop like SWTOR did I will definitely consider going to get my fix elsewhere.   I miss the old days  before WoW when MMOs didn't try to cater  their games to everyone. You either liked it or you didn't and you moved on to other greener MMO pastures if that  was the  case.    
while I tend to agree with you on the mmo handout for free to play I really think using SWTOR as a comparison is not very fair. That game is the most restrictive of the free to play games. While most people whom spend money on free to play games that do not like a sub fee are buying mounts and bag space, star wars is charging those customers for action bars sprint and basic functional abilities. This game kinda sets itself up for the hate it gets here because majority of the game is based around the cash shop now unless you want to run a 15 dollar a month fee. I personally do not think SWTOR is worth the 15 dollars a month for various reasons but im sure some do think so. But to players having to unlock all this stuff its a turn off and a deterant to playing or trying out new patches.

On ESO going free I highly doubt it unless they drop the ball, at least for a couple of years. As long as people do not leave in droves like SWTOR at launch I highly doubt you are going to see this game go free to play anytime soon. I personally think the game is worth the 15 dollar a month fee so I will be supporting it regardless , if it goes free to play or not if Im still enjoying the game when the time comes if it ever does.


I don't think people leaving in droves will have an impact. at least not like other games. the last 2 AAA mmo's sold aprox. 3mil copies. they were pc only. if ESO sells 3mil pc copies it sets itself up nicely with console sales. and even if people do leave in droves it wont have as much of an impact as other games. because they have more players to begin with. when a AAA mmo goes f2p it is widely considered a failure by most mmo fans. I think them not going f2p stands to benefit them more in the long run. otherwise the failure stigma may be too much to overcome.

I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  Ulorik

Novice Member

Joined: 9/12/11
Posts: 184

3/07/14 2:47:07 AM#125

Any MMO with a decent PvP / RvR / AvA game can not afford to go f2p with all the attached cash shops and other rubbish. Not sure if b2p would provide the income stream necessary to keep the service up and extend it.

 

So I sincerely hope they will hold their nerve and stay with a subscription model.

 

What really pisses me off however are those loudmouths who spout rubbish against ESO with the hope that they might get a free ride on the back of other gamers in a f2p model, grow up already...

  coventryhagdog

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/12/14
Posts: 97

3/07/14 2:49:55 AM#126

If you look at the historical data, then yes.

It will go B2P/F2P.

 

  FaustusIV

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/05/14
Posts: 57

3/07/14 4:58:29 AM#127

 

I actually prefer the sub model personally.

 

But I can also see that the sub model is practically dead.

 

Yes, this game will go F2P and I would expect the transition within 12-18 months from launch. The F2P / cash shop model is a licence to print money and can you imagine how many different consumables, weapons, armor, mounts etc that they can monetize in a PvP focused game like ESO...

 

I am sure the dollar signs have been flashing for years and F2P has always been part of the roadmap....

  Gadareth

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/06/05
Posts: 311

3/07/14 5:15:34 AM#128

I am hoping it stays as a sub model but if for some reason they do go f2p I hope they follow the SWTOR model of making the freeloaders second class citizens.

In fact what I would like to see is a freeloader only class made lets call it serf with heavy restrictions on equipment as well as a forced level cap of at least 2 levels lower than the nearest paying citizen. As well as a set of special emotes useable by paying subscribers targeted at the new serf class...

<ahhh one can dream>

 

Seriously, though F2P is not a viable long term option. Either a game is good and worth subscription or its bad and not. F2P only dilutes the value.

 

  Canibaloler

Novice Member

Joined: 11/25/13
Posts: 59

3/07/14 5:24:29 AM#129

From what i ve seen on Beta so far Zenimax should pay the players to play this @!$@#$.

Edit: This game works like a TIME MACHINE ~~~ Once you install it and *poof* your back on 1999 :P

  Vapors

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/10
Posts: 409

3/07/14 5:29:57 AM#130
Originally posted by Castielle101

I believe the game will go F2P.  ESO, while a great game seems more like an online RPG than an MMO.  It doesn't do anything that any other MMO doesn't do better.  What it does do is let you play ES with friends.  I don't think that's enough to warrant 15$ a month for long.

 

Cas

hmm and I felt it does things better then any other MMO at the moment. Couldn't name a game from my personal view, that is far better in any point

  Gilllean

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/04/14
Posts: 195

3/07/14 5:43:41 AM#131
Originally posted by Skuall
Originally posted by Gilllean
No ESO will have a huge fan base like WoW. And if expansion will be good people will stick to it for long time!! Might be big thing if fans will support !

huge fan base like : Star wars? or Lord of the rings?

ESO will be FTP (sadly) zenimax will milk the fans , and then go ftp , its have been the plan the whole time im afraid.

The preorder was a hint.

This kinds of topic will ruin the game it plants  a seed of insecureness witch slowly grows.  If fan base were more supportive their Marketing TEAM tards will not intervent in game process because they are afraid game will fail and they need to milk as much as possible.

Also why going F2P?   I prefer quality over quantity   Ill better a mmo with 1 milion active subscribers than a terrible F2P with 10 milion players .

ESO will be  Quality over Quantity and I hope developers will understand this and keep the good work !

Also about Pre order   if you were Team leader of Marketing team how would you act when on each gameing community website game bash the shit out of game. If there is some one falt it falt of whiny cry babies. If I was in charge for this I would do the same thing !! right now we  see that Zenimax is actively listening to player base if they will continue this way they will be fine !

  FaustusIV

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/05/14
Posts: 57

3/07/14 6:28:57 AM#132
Originally posted by Canibaloler

From what i ve seen on Beta so far Zenimax should pay the players to play this @!$@#$.

Edit: This game works like a TIME MACHINE ~~~ Once you install it and *poof* your back on 1999 :P

 

lol...2003 dude, c'mon at least keep it real :)

  ElirionLoth

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/20/12
Posts: 272

3/07/14 7:07:41 AM#133
Originally posted by Scambug
Of course it'll go F2P in under 6 months. That's why they're milking as hard as they can now.

 

I'm saving this post.  I'll see you back here in October to discuss how your prediction went.  Remember, you said F2P in under 6 months.  No wiggling out of this one.

  Sk1ppeR

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/12
Posts: 534

3/07/14 7:13:47 AM#134

Guys relax, all MMOs will go F2P. The only question is "When?". Even Blizzard's WoW will go F2P (as stated by their management), but they're not quite there yet. 

In TESO's case it matters how many people they will fool with the hype train. Some people love subscribing for 6+ months to a game without playing it for a second. I suppose there are those about TESO too. They will also have another sales boost once the game hits the console market. It will take some time to get there because with all the phasing and the "megaserver" joke, their maintenance costs is low. 

 

To anyone out there that think a server management is expensive, keep in mind that for 100 euro per month you get a dual cpu (xeon CPUs) 32Gb of ECC RAM and SSDs (nowadays). This also includes Unlimited Bandwidth* . So you do the maths. 10 subscribers cover the cost of operation for their own server, given the megaserver is a lie. With their size I suppose 1000 subs will cover all operations costs, everything else would be profit. And lets face it, 1000 subs is nothing... so.. tldr, it will take sometime for TESO to give up to the B2P model (like TSW did before them), but it will happen eventually. After all it took 2 years for TSW i think :) 

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1443

3/07/14 7:18:18 AM#135
Originally posted by SpottyGekko
Originally posted by Iselin

I love the "give in" part of the title. Like there's this irresistible force pushing them that way... wishful thinking much?

 

If you want to wait 2 or 3 years, go for it.

Yeah, I always get the feeling that there's this hidden agenda behind many of these "F2P doom" posts, lol

 

It's like: "I actually quite enjoy this game, but I don't want to pay for it, so if it goes F2P in 6 months, I'm OK. Otherwise, I'll just cave and buy it now, because I'm not realistically going to wait 1 or 2 years before I play it."

"Wishful thinking" is exactly what it is with many of those posts. They do want to play it... They just want it for free. It's the rallying call of the self-entitled "Me, because I..." BitTorrent Generation: "I'm entitled to have what I want, and I shouldn't have to pay for it!"

It played out exactly that way toward the end of FFXIV 1.0's run. Yoshi-P/SE had announced months ahead of time that the game would not have a sub fee while they figured out what to do with the game going forward. But, that once they worked out a roadmap they could share with the players, they would reinstate subscriptions. No one really raised an eyebrow at the announcement, because at that time, there weren't very many people playing, because the game was still pretty much in its post-launch state (ie. a mess). 

There are people who played it non-stop through that entire phase, getting their classes to 50, finishing content, etc. 

So, months later, they keep their word (as they had all along) and announced the date they would reinstate subscriptions. Well, the outrage, indignation and threats of "canceling" immediately erupted across the official forums (and elsewhere). People insisted if subs were reinstated, they would be canceling and walking away. Predictions were made of how a sub fee would be the final nail in the coffin and would destroy the game for good. It was predicted that they'd get so few subs, that ARR would never happen. That the game was not fun and in no way worth a subscription fee. And on and on... I kept track of some of those people doing the most complaining. About a dozen seemed to be constantly going on about it, with many others chiming in, or "+1"-ing others' remarks.

Interestingly, I found that those shouting the loudest and putting up the most fuss were also the ones with the most accomplished in the game. They'd been playing straight through the free period, completing the content, leveling their jobs... Clearly playing and enjoying the game. That pattern was not at all coincidence, it would turn out.

So then the moment of truth comes.. The proverbial "shit or get off the pot" moment. Subs are reinstated. 

Guess who was still around the official forums afterward? Almost every single one of those people who insisted their accounts would be canceled if SE "dared" reinstate subs. Considering you can only post on the official forums if you have an active account with an established character, they would have to have paid to do so.

Not only that, but the game's population picked up significantly after the subs were reinstated. During the free period, you could barely see anyone in Ul'dah - the unofficial hub of the game. Grid and Limsa were utterly barren. World areas were nearly void of players. After subs were reinstated, the game picked up.. All cities became active and you actually saw numerous other players out and about, in even the most remote areas. 

So what does that show? That for all their bluffing and complaining, people ultimately will pay for something if they enjoy it enough... they would just rather get it for free, and will do their best to say their worst to get their way.

I don't doubt for a second that many - perhaps even most - of those types of posts in these forums are fueled by similar motivation.

 

  User Deleted
3/07/14 7:22:37 AM#136

I strongly believe it will become a F2p game. The competition is to thick. To be a pay to play box price with sub, the game has to A.) Launched at the right time and generated a massive following ie WoW, or B.) Be so amazingly better than everything else on the market that people will pay the box price and stick around for the sub.

 

No game can fill selection A, that time has passed. Selection B can be filled, but in this case ESO does not cut it.

 

In the short term and best practice for generating income.

ESO will .....

     Launch as a box price with sub. Your only going to get X amount of people to buy the game anyhow. Y amount of people will stick around.

Step 1. This will probably fizzle out in less than 4 months

Money 1st month = ( box price *  X ) + ($15/month * Y ) - cost of production - cost of service

Money 2nd month = ($15/month * Y ) + Cash shop - continued cost of production - cost of service

                   - as Y drops out and cost of production and service stay the same, money also drops out.

 

Step 2.

How do we generate more money? This could happen as soon as Camelot Unchained, World of Darkness, or whatever game steals this games populous.

Switch to F2p and gather the inrush of new comers Z from the cash shop and halt production

Now

Money = Cash shop from Z (killer whales) - cost of service

 

Step 3. This will probably occur 2 years from Launch of ESO

When cash shop drops out, leave game on life support and move on, until life support becomes to expensive.

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2612

3/07/14 7:34:10 AM#137

It should be B2P period. Nothing I have seen makes this game unique from any others, no matter what the Fan Boi's say. It is a dumbed down MMO and we shall see how the PC gamers deal with the console types when it comes out.

 

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  User Deleted
3/07/14 7:37:07 AM#138

The freeloader/entitled comments are so funny. So because i don't feel the game is worth between 75 to 90 euros (2-4 monhts gameplay), i'm a  freeloader who wants everything for nothing. Of course, just like how i don't pay money for any game, ever, being it single player, multiplayers, other B2P mmos like GW2 and TSW, etc. I want it all FOR FREE. 

I'm perfectly ok with sub fees, but to me, it's only worth it if it's a game i'm going to play for a very long time. Not to meantion that if i just want to log back in to check a few things out for less than 2 days (not talking about new content or zones even), i have to pay for the whole month.

As for the OP, i expect B2P (because of the console version) instead of F2P. Somewhere between 6-12 months.

  Vinterkrig

Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/07
Posts: 1717

3/07/14 7:38:01 AM#139
Yes, I'd even go as far to say that they already have something implemented in the code for when they want to flick that switch.
  Kaneth

Elite Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1812

3/07/14 7:41:13 AM#140
Originally posted by FaustusIV

 

I actually prefer the sub model personally.

 

But I can also see that the sub model is practically dead.

 

Yes, this game will go F2P and I would expect the transition within 12-18 months from launch. The F2P / cash shop model is a licence to print money and can you imagine how many different consumables, weapons, armor, mounts etc that they can monetize in a PvP focused game like ESO...

 

I am sure the dollar signs have been flashing for years and F2P has always been part of the roadmap....

They obviously have a contingency plan in place for a B2P/F2P transition. If you look at the digital rewards in the Imperial Edition; imperial race, mount, rings of mara, and mudcrab pet, any one of those items could easily be sold for a nominal price in a cash shop although they will most likely sell it as a package in the cash shop. I honestly would see them go B2P over F2P and sooner rather than later. I feel a large contributor to that is going to be the console markets, as console gamers historically haven't responded very well to additional fees on top of the game and xbox live, etc. Anyone making mmos for consoles should know that they can make more money selling DLC instead of sub fees.

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