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Elder Scrolls Online

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General Discussion  » Do you think ESO will eventually give in to the F2P or B2P model?

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244 posts found
  User Deleted
3/03/14 5:18:18 AM#41

I love current state of game BUT this doesn't decide logentivity. Logentivity will be decided after a few months after release and I'm talking about promised quality content and world expansion if this content will be like gw2 small dumb and cheap game will not last long at least PVE side.

But consider that game it's P2P wow like and they still have full stuff of development so most probably expansions will be good and in new expansions we might see even more features that will make game even better.

Still I want to believe Zenimax have high hope with this project and will focus even more to become a Titan  in MMO P2P market . I'm not intrested in and any kind of cheap and super dumb sandbox like ArcheAge. Eso in comparison with that have a SOUL there is something special about it you want to explore it.

ESO it's like that shy and cute girl who nobody sees , she's a mistery and you want to explore her.

While ArcheAge is some kind of most popular girl in school who is spoiled has a rich daddy and has 0 brain. ( still lot of guys want to stick her)

 

Any way main factor that will decide longetivity is  Frequent map expansions witch also will include new skills new features and polishing of present content. ^^

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

3/03/14 5:23:10 AM#42

Originally posted by yaminsux

I wouldnt want ESO to be B2P/F2P.

One Reason:

Keeps whiny players out. I'll pay for that....seriously.

No, it doesn't.  The financial capacity and willingness to pay a sub does not preclude being whiny.

Originally posted by Gaxusn

I predict F2P within 6-12 months. 

Many people won't play this game because in their opinion, it isn't worth a sub. Those same people would probably give it more of a chance if they had nothing to lose.

Correction; many people won't play any sub game because they think games in general aren't worth a sub.  The ones who think that subs can be ok, and this particular game just doesn't happen to be worth one are the people who probably wouldn't play even if there wasn't one.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  EQBallzz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/28/13
Posts: 99

3/03/14 5:42:29 AM#43
Originally posted by Kattycake
Originally posted by Robokapp

warhammer didn't...

 

it depends if the game's good or not. good games work under any payment model. bad games don't work under any payment model. 

Right :-P I mean from current beta impressions?

 

And here you seem to reveal your true intentions with your insinuations. You either want to paint the game as not good and so not worthy of a subscription because of your F2P bias or you are just another ESO hater trying to smear the game because you don't personally like it.

 

Like the person you quoted stated...if the game is good the pay model is irrelevant. If the game is good people will pay for it either with a sub or with micro-transactions but it will earn money regardless because it's a good game. If the game sucks (which it doesn't) it doesn't matter if it's P2P or B2P or F2P..the game will still suck so who cares? On the other hand if the game is good but you won't play just because of the pay model that says more about you than it does about the game.

 

Nothing is free and others shouldn't have to pay your way so you can get a free ride (especially on a multi-million dollar game that needs to turn a profit). Even if the game was technically "F2P" they would need to earn a certain average dollar amount per person per month which just means the free players get to play thanks to the people who spend way more than the average (sub price). Nobody cares about the actual "free" players who never buy anything. Not the devs (it's not a charity) and certainly not the paying customers (who pay your way).

 

Have you read actual beta impressions like the in-depth Tamriel Foundry article instead of whiney posts/reviews from people who either hate the game because of it's pay model (regardless of the game itself) or people who have only played 10 levels in beta? Doesn't sound like it.

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1184

3/03/14 8:56:15 AM#44

The question needs clarification as there are two parts to it: the initial payment and the continuing payment.

 

Initial payment:

Most companies charge for their products; whether it is $60 or 99 cents. There are however some Free-to-Buy games; ones you can start playing for nothing. Different business strategies - "price points", "consumer resistance" even  "luxury pricing".

Do I think ESO will go Free-to-Buy (as STWOR did for example): NO. I believe it will stay B2P like e.g. TSW. Might get cheaper over time but I don't believe it will become free-to-buy.

 

Continuing Payment:

Do I believe that ESO will adopt a "micro-transaction" style approach - NO. don't believe it will work either. It isn't designed around the concept.

Do I believe that if ESO launches with a sub it will carry on with a sub? YES probably.

Do I believe that ESO will "adopt" a DLC model like TSW. If it launches - as seems to be the case - with a sub not likely but possible. Post launch there are problems of what to do with the people who did sub. And most of the lost sales will stay lost; TSW has not really recovered.

Do I believe it will continue with a sub: sadly YES.

Having a sub however impacts the price point. And generates huge customer resistance. There is also no longer any justification for having one. When they started networks, database software, techs all made for huge costs and it was accepted. And new content was not included. Look at the justifications usually given out: 

  • bug fixes - no, zero tolerance; if a game has bugs you expect them to be fixed sub or not
  • customer support - "all" companies provide this (good or bad!); 
  • network costs - still some justification but the cost is tiny otherwise e.g. GW1 would never have been possible; 
  • keep the riff-raff out; classic "luxury pricing" comment, but luxury pricing implies smaller markets ....
  • future content / keep the devs working. Why? You don't buy a TV for $500 and then keep paying $125 a month so that the designers can come up with next years design. Destiny launches later this year without a sub. Destiny is planning on 10 years of content - no sub and yet it is still going to pay its devs. How can this be?
  • WoW has lots of subscribers. Indeed but it also loses lots every month and lots of people return. ESO won't have returning subscribers for a long time.
There is another - business - reason:
  • to smooth out revenue flow and as there is nothing set in stone as to what the sub is for it is very flexible
 
 
 
Will ESO sell. Absolutely. Tens of millions? Unlikely. If it only gets e.g. 2.4M sales like SWTOR .... will it ever fulfil its potential? Does anyone doubt that with a sub we are looking at initial sales; medium retention; decline down to a core playerbase that gradually dwindles? 
 
So will the sub revenue make up for lost sales ... and potential DLC sales?
 
When Titanfall launches later this month it will use the same model that EA have used with BF3 and BF4. So Respawn (and maybe Microsoft) must be happy with it.  
 
The BF model is B2P + "optional subscription package". Those who take out the package get a fixed number of xpacs. Very clear; very clean cut. Very simple. Those that don't have to buy as DLC. There is still an element of trust required on the part of the subscribers but a clear commitment. And note all these games have networks but no sub.
 
Activision's attempt at a subscription service for CoD is interesting. They offered "fuzzy" service extras, nothing definitive; the service failed. And when Desiny launches later this year it won't have a sub. 10 years of expansion packs are planned but no sub.
 
 
Moral: I suggest that consumers don't have a problem paying for something as long as they know what they are getting and believe that the price they are paying is reasonable. They are happy with cash on delivery but some would prefer the "luxury price" that a sub represents to "keep out" the undesirables. Never understood it myself but it is there.
 
 
Like I said if Zenimax go with a sub I think they will stay with a sub. And the game's potential, imo, will be unfulfilled.
 
ESO will be an ideal DLC platform. And they can sell legendary packages in later years. And if they need to hold back some dungeons from the core game fine. Just make sure they can launch some solid DLC in the first year say. 
 
 
  User Deleted
3/03/14 8:59:43 AM#45

As with all MMOs it depends entirely on how long the subscriber population remains healthy.

With how much they invested into it, they will definitely switch to F2P as soon as it becomes more profitable to do so.

  Shadanwolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1867

3/03/14 9:11:29 AM#46

My guess.

DAOC...a 12 year old game still is $15 subscription. This game has a strong and better set of features with its AvA.

The game has better pve than DAOC.

DAOC had over 1 million subscribers at it's peak

The game stays $15 /mo subscription.

  tet666

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/12
Posts: 117

3/03/14 9:23:45 AM#47
Originally posted by Shadanwolf

My guess.

DAOC...a 12 year old game still is $15 subscription. This game has a strong and better set of features with its AvA.

The game has better pve than DAOC.

DAOC had over 1 million subscribers at it's peak

The game stays $15 /mo subscription.

Dream on...

There are a lot of good reasons old MMOs like DAOC stayed P2P so far none of them apply to newer (and way more expensive to develope) MMOs like ESO.

  cinos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/22/05
Posts: 975

3/03/14 9:24:31 AM#48

Seen it happen time and again with basically every MMO for the past ten years.

Put simply, ESO will go F2P, B2P or will close down. You can count on it. It's going to happen.

Yes, I'm sure it's the best MMO ever made and all your friends love it. Doesn't matter. It's still going to drop the sub, so get your enjoyment out of it whilst you can.

I will concede, though, that at least ESO isn't offering a lifetime sub. That's always a big warning, right there. :p

 

  arieste

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3303

3/03/14 9:27:24 AM#49
Originally posted by Kattycake

Just gonna keep this short;

A lot of people, so I've seen/heard from, believe that ESO will turn into what SWTOR once did. TERA switched, The Secret World switched, Rift...etc.

Do you think dishing $15/mo will be a bit much to some players? I mean even ArcheAge in RU Beta is $9/mo for premium.

Sure.  Eventually it will.  But there is plenty of worhthile fun to be had in the game before then.  To me, it's $50 for a month of play.  Whatever happens after, i'll cross that bridge when i get there (if i get there).

"I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

- Raph Koster

Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
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  Soki123

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/10/08
Posts: 1274

3/03/14 9:27:47 AM#50
No one will want to pay $15 a month for AvA. The rest is just TES with people running around. I don t think it holds enough for that.
  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8553

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

3/03/14 9:31:33 AM#51

ESO will be the only major MMO available on consoles.... a new market.... a fresh game for many.... everyone is underestimating the number of console players that will fall for the game and so, it will be a game of wowish proportions on the consoles..

 

This will keep the game a subscription game for much much longer.

 

The PC release is only the pre release of the console version... we will be the bughunters and when released on consoles, the game will be of perfect proportions...

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online and Wildstar

  Soki123

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/10/08
Posts: 1274

3/03/14 9:32:33 AM#52
Originally posted by Shadanwolf

My guess.

DAOC...a 12 year old game still is $15 subscription. This game has a strong and better set of features with its AvA.

The game has better pve than DAOC.

DAOC had over 1 million subscribers at it's peak

The game stays $15 /mo subscription.

Lol, I m a huge DAOC fan, but it never came close to 1 mill.

Why people crap on DAOC pve , I ll never know. IMO it was better then TESO has.

RvR vs AvA, lol this is no comparison. DAOC hands down.

F2P eventually is my guess.

 

  tet666

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/12
Posts: 117

3/03/14 9:36:30 AM#53
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

ESO will be the only major MMO available on consoles.... a new market.... a fresh game for many.... everyone is underestimating the number of console players that will fall for the game and so, it will be a game of wowish proportions on the consoles..

 

This will keep the game a subscription game for much much longer.

 

The PC release is only the pre release of the console version... we will be the bughunters and when released on consoles, the game will be of perfect proportions...

 

Yeah sure thats why DC online (and thats even f2p) and FF14 are the biggest MMOs around oh wait.

Console players usually dont play p2p titles and next gen install base is not that huge to begin with so far and there are other problems aswell like the xbone users needing a gold subscrition to play  eso for example.

 

  david361107

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/18/08
Posts: 282

3/03/14 9:40:22 AM#54

F2P I see as never going away for the bla games out there.

I played beta this weekend for the first time in TESO and I was very pleased with what I got to see, with a few changes that could be made. I'm afraid of TESO going free to play and what it will do to the gaming industry as a whole.

Sub based games are just better for everyone, backing up the game with your money isn't a bad things like all the "freeloaders" keep saying out there. They will troll on any game that isn't free to play and it's really hurting all gamers.

If you can't afford to pay a few cents a day to play a game then maybe you should find something else to spend your time with? maybe long walks or hanging out at the mall? those are both free.

What will keep the sub money coming in is the End game and PVP.

 

Peace,

Lascer

  tet666

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/12
Posts: 117

3/03/14 9:43:24 AM#55
Originally posted by david361107

F2P I see as never going away for the bla games out there.

I played beta this weekend for the first time in TESO and I was very pleased with what I got to see, with a few changes that could be made. I'm afraid of TESO going free to play and what it will do to the gaming industry as a whole.

Sub based games are just better for everyone, backing up the game with your money isn't a bad things like all the "freeloaders" keep saying out there. They will troll on any game that isn't free to play and it's really hurting all gamers.

If you can't afford to pay a few cents a day to play a game then maybe you should find something else to spend your time with? maybe long walks or hanging out at the mall? those are both free.

What will keep the sub money coming in is the End game and PVP.

 

Peace,

Lascer

Yeah sure tell that to the millions of "bla" players they are targeting with this game i wonder how that goes ;)

  Aeonblades

Elite Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2004

3/03/14 10:03:51 AM#56

If they do, it won't be any time soon. If the stress test this weekend for an old build that doesn't have the experience changes/ crafting changes/ collision detection is any indication, the game is going to be a resounding success as for every person that did not enjoy the beta there were dozens to take their place. I met a lot of people who were upset they could only play this weekend as they were already addicted.

Down the line in a few years it may go B2P, but I wouldn't worry about the game becoming the crap fest that is B2P/F2P gaming any time soon.

Currently Playing: ESO,FFXIV, various betas
Have played: You name it.

  Soki123

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/10/08
Posts: 1274

3/03/14 10:21:59 AM#57
Originally posted by Aeonblades

If they do, it won't be any time soon. If the stress test this weekend for an old build that doesn't have the experience changes/ crafting changes/ collision detection is any indication, the game is going to be a resounding success as for every person that did not enjoy the beta there were dozens to take their place. I met a lot of people who were upset they could only play this weekend as they were already addicted.

Down the line in a few years it may go B2P, but I wouldn't worry about the game becoming the crap fest that is B2P/F2P gaming any time soon.

You have repeatedly said for every 1 person that doesn t like it, dozens will. Really, you seriously think that? Of my guild I ve gamed with for years, 100 people, I think 5 are going to buy it. Im sure Im not the only case like this. If it happens to be the case, I guess we finally found the WoW killer. This I highly doubt though.

  Aeonblades

Elite Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2004

3/03/14 10:25:39 AM#58
Originally posted by Soki123
Originally posted by Aeonblades

If they do, it won't be any time soon. If the stress test this weekend for an old build that doesn't have the experience changes/ crafting changes/ collision detection is any indication, the game is going to be a resounding success as for every person that did not enjoy the beta there were dozens to take their place. I met a lot of people who were upset they could only play this weekend as they were already addicted.

Down the line in a few years it may go B2P, but I wouldn't worry about the game becoming the crap fest that is B2P/F2P gaming any time soon.

You have repeatedly said for every 1 person that doesn t like it, dozens will. Really, you seriously think that? Of my guild I ve gamed with for years, 100 people, I think 5 are going to buy it. Im sure Im not the only case like this. If it happens to be the case, I guess we finally found the WoW killer. This I highly doubt though.

I know it for a fact. The tiny representation of your small guild vs fans of the MMO genre and fans of the TESO franchise is miniscule to the point where it really doesn't matter. For every 1 person that does not enjoy the game, several more will. All the people complaining on gaming websites like this is a tiny fraction. There are what, maybe 5000 users that post here every day? It's such an insignificant amount to take anything anyone here says seriously.

 

People on gaming websites do nothing but trash talk WoW constantly, and yet it remains a resounding success. Why? Because the small portion of people whining on forums makes up said tiny fraction of players.

Currently Playing: ESO,FFXIV, various betas
Have played: You name it.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17007

3/03/14 10:26:15 AM#59
Originally posted by Iselin

 

I mean, shit... I either want to play a game or not. If I don't, no amount of financial model changing will ever get me to play it :)

 

If I do want to play it the only thing that would make me pause and think is if the game is "free" to play, do I have the ability to put-up with their immersion-breaking intrusive marketing with all their "blue light special!" shit.

 

 

This is the same for me.

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1184

3/03/14 10:30:53 AM#60
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

ESO will be the only major MMO available on consoles.... a new market.... a fresh game for many.... everyone is underestimating the number of console players that will fall for the game and so, it will be a game of wowish proportions on the consoles..

 

This will keep the game a subscription game for much much longer.

 

The PC release is only the pre release of the console version... we will be the bughunters and when released on consoles, the game will be of perfect proportions...

Hmm. XBox1 and PS4 only though. Limited market - especially factoring in geography. And the fact that some of us have both. And the Xbox live issue as well.

And there will be competition. Titanfall this month on XBox1, PC and 360. Not an mmo .... well its online, multiplayer only, over-arching individual story, character advancement .... I won't argue it is but ... it looks pretty and plays well .... a good home whilst ESO works out its bugs!

And if Destiny hits is September launch date ... well Bungie may not want the mmo label just like Zenimax have tried to define TESO as "not a traditional mmo" but Destiny will launch just about when console players who opted to try ESO might be getting bored. That 3-4 month in point.

Agree there is added potential, don't see it as that great though.

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