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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Do you think ESO will eventually give in to the F2P or B2P model?

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243 posts found
  Waldoe

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/10
Posts: 624

3/08/14 1:07:34 PM#201
The day it goes F2P or B2P is the day myself and many friends stop playing.
  Kattycake

Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/14
Posts: 32

 
OP  3/08/14 1:10:13 PM#202
Originally posted by Waldoe
The day it goes F2P or B2P is the day myself and many friends stop playing.

Why? It would be the same idea just altered.

xoxo

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2940

3/08/14 1:15:48 PM#203
Originally posted by Kattycake
Originally posted by Waldoe
The day it goes F2P or B2P is the day myself and many friends stop playing.

Why? It would be the same idea just altered.

Lol, "just altered", eh ?

 

You mean it will be exactly the same, just different ?

  codejack

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/17/06
Posts: 189

3/08/14 1:18:17 PM#204
Originally posted by kkarrabbass

Quality games do not add free options, only failing ones do.

 

That is an asymmetric comparison.

  kkarrabbass

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/08
Posts: 160

I was a smart man once...

3/08/14 1:25:21 PM#205
Originally posted by codejack
Originally posted by kkarrabbass

Quality games do not add free options, only failing ones do.

 

That is an asymmetric comparison.

Explain yourself!

  blazzen67

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/13
Posts: 67

3/08/14 1:29:28 PM#206
Originally posted by Kattycake
Originally posted by Waldoe
The day it goes F2P or B2P is the day myself and many friends stop playing.

Why? It would be the same idea just altered.

why? because it will turn into a micro transaction, pay gated piece of dung like all F2P games are..dont get me started on gold farmers, bots ,and a terrible player community . so im with Waldoe, the day this game goes F2P is the day i stop playing it.

  Voiidiin

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/11
Posts: 827

Soylent green is made from PEOPLE

3/08/14 1:32:48 PM#207
Originally posted by Robokapp

warhammer didn't...

 

it depends if the game's good or not. good games work under any payment model. bad games don't work under any payment model. 

Yeah and umm Warhammer is gone.

Fact of the matter is F2P or B2P is how the industry is headed, with cosmetic shops added to generate continuous cash flow afterwards.

For alot of new gamers the F2P model gets them in the door, the B2P model gets players in the door with some investment added. Yes these models tend to bring in the game some very immature players, but in the end your games population is what will drive it going forward.

I think its is very shortsighted by the devs to think they can change how the industry is moving towards. ESO should be B2P with a decent cosmetic cash shop.

Content is king, if ESO cannot produce overwhelming amounts of content to provide incentive for the player base to accept the 14.99 a month, we will see a huge exodus in about 3-4 months after release like we did in SWTOR. Of course the one thing that ESO has going for it that SWTOR didnt was an actual decent PvP component. 

I am almost always an early adopter for new releases in MMO's but for some reason i have felt meh about ESO, i really can't place my finger on it right now but i think it has more to do with my recent sandbox yearnings i have been satisfying. 

Lolipops !

  Sk1ppeR

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/12
Posts: 534

3/08/14 1:43:27 PM#208
Originally posted by blazzen67
Originally posted by Kattycake
Originally posted by Waldoe
The day it goes F2P or B2P is the day myself and many friends stop playing.

Why? It would be the same idea just altered.

why? because it will turn into a micro transaction, pay gated piece of dung like all F2P games are..dont get me started on gold farmers, bots ,and a terrible player community . so im with Waldoe, the day this game goes F2P is the day i stop playing it.

You should swallow your stupid pride and check out RIFT and Tera or the north american Aion or Gw2 or TSW. Then you can come back and say shit like what you just said. In the games I listed there is not a single paywall. None! All of you cocky subscription whiteknights are spewing crap about F2P games without playing a single good one. 

 

I can give you endless example of utterly bad P2P games. Should we blame all P2P for it? No? Double standards? 

And as I said above, there is terrible community at EVE Online, at WoW, at FFXIV AND at DFUW. All of them having subscription. Again....double standards much? 

Don't let me even start on the botting issue since I've botted in every MMO to day with the exception of Gw2, I just felt like playing in it

 

Saying the post that you did, given the examples that I just gave, pretty much turns you into a hypocrite. 

  Voiidiin

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/11
Posts: 827

Soylent green is made from PEOPLE

3/08/14 2:01:13 PM#209
Originally posted by Sk1ppeR
Originally posted by blazzen67
Originally posted by Kattycake
Originally posted by Waldoe
The day it goes F2P or B2P is the day myself and many friends stop playing.

Why? It would be the same idea just altered.

why? because it will turn into a micro transaction, pay gated piece of dung like all F2P games are..dont get me started on gold farmers, bots ,and a terrible player community . so im with Waldoe, the day this game goes F2P is the day i stop playing it.

You should swallow your stupid pride and check out RIFT and Tera or the north american Aion or Gw2 or TSW. Then you can come back and say shit like what you just said. In the games I listed there is not a single paywall. None! All of you cocky subscription whiteknights are spewing crap about F2P games without playing a single good one. 

 

I can give you endless example of utterly bad P2P games. Should we blame all P2P for it? No? Double standards? 

And as I said above, there is terrible community at EVE Online, at WoW, at FFXIV AND at DFUW. All of them having subscription. Again....double standards much? 

Don't let me even start on the botting issue since I've botted in every MMO to day with the exception of Gw2, I just felt like playing in it

 

Saying the post that you did, given the examples that I just gave, pretty much turns you into a hypocrite. 

I have to totally agree with you, P2P does not = great game, neither does F2P/B2P = bad game. 

What people need to do is see the developers of those bad F2P/B2P models and stay away from those games. 

Hate GW2 all you want when it comes to the gameplay, but Anet has one of the best cash shops for any game i have played that has cash shops. Its not needed in anyway to play the game, but what it offers is actual value if your inclined to buy gems.

The day when crap F2P games are the only F2P games you can find is over. Thinking that all F2P or B2P are like Rappelz, or some other Perfect World crap fests is very small minded. 

Go and download Rift and play it, that is one of the best F2P games out there.

Lolipops !

  User Deleted
3/08/14 2:02:27 PM#210
Originally posted by blazzen67
Originally posted by Kattycake
Originally posted by Waldoe
The day it goes F2P or B2P is the day myself and many friends stop playing.

Why? It would be the same idea just altered.

why? because it will turn into a micro transaction, pay gated piece of dung like all F2P games are..dont get me started on gold farmers, bots ,and a terrible player community . so im with Waldoe, the day this game goes F2P is the day i stop playing it.

*Cough* Imperial Edition *Cough*

  kkarrabbass

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/08
Posts: 160

I was a smart man once...

3/08/14 2:07:46 PM#211
Originally posted by Voiidiin
Originally posted by Robokapp

warhammer didn't...

 

it depends if the game's good or not. good games work under any payment model. bad games don't work under any payment model. 

Yeah and umm Warhammer is gone.

Fact of the matter is F2P or B2P is how the industry is headed, with cosmetic shops added to generate continuous cash flow afterwards.

For alot of new gamers the F2P model gets them in the door, the B2P model gets players in the door with some investment added. Yes these models tend to bring in the game some very immature players, but in the end your games population is what will drive it going forward.

I think its is very shortsighted by the devs to think they can change how the industry is moving towards. ESO should be B2P with a decent cosmetic cash shop.

Content is king, if ESO cannot produce overwhelming amounts of content to provide incentive for the player base to accept the 14.99 a month, we will see a huge exodus in about 3-4 months after release like we did in SWTOR. Of course the one thing that ESO has going for it that SWTOR didnt was an actual decent PvP component. 

I am almost always an early adopter for new releases in MMO's but for some reason i have felt meh about ESO, i really can't place my finger on it right now but i think it has more to do with my recent sandbox yearnings i have been satisfying. 

I do respect your opinion, largely because nothing extreme about it.

I do however have something to say.

It is about sand boxes.

Not long ago most of the people hated very idea of sand box.

Now everyone likes it.

I do believe that some of sand box features could be attractive, most of the time because they are new.

But it is not for long. On my humble opinion, sand boxes (at least recent ones) will have quite short Life span. Just because players creativity is largely overstated (and this is what real sand box is based on).

To think, that players are more smart, or creative than game design professionals (developers) is just silly.

I would suggest you not to rush with final conclusion about ESO. If you have read smart threads about it, you would notice that it usually grows very slowly on you. And you might need to devote more time for this game before you going to be completely under its charm. It works differently than other games.

And again, it is all up to you. This game has a potential to become The Game for you, if you give it a chance.

  sugarbear78664

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/13
Posts: 37

3/08/14 2:16:53 PM#212
This is a very easy subject. we as customers will decide what the final outcome will be. If they  are striving as a buisness on a subscription bases. It will remain that way. If there not making any money, it will go free to play. If it still makes no money....it closes down. WE have the final say as MMO players.
  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

3/08/14 2:25:50 PM#213
DAOC  still isn't f2p and warhammer online never went f2p.
  kkarrabbass

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/08
Posts: 160

I was a smart man once...

3/08/14 2:33:17 PM#214
Originally posted by Voiidiin
Originally posted by Sk1ppeR
Originally posted by blazzen67
Originally posted by Kattycake
Originally posted by Waldoe
The day it goes F2P or B2P is the day myself and many friends stop playing.

Why? It would be the same idea just altered.

why? because it will turn into a micro transaction, pay gated piece of dung like all F2P games are..dont get me started on gold farmers, bots ,and a terrible player community . so im with Waldoe, the day this game goes F2P is the day i stop playing it.

You should swallow your stupid pride and check out RIFT and Tera or the north american Aion or Gw2 or TSW. Then you can come back and say shit like what you just said. In the games I listed there is not a single paywall. None! All of you cocky subscription whiteknights are spewing crap about F2P games without playing a single good one. 

 

I can give you endless example of utterly bad P2P games. Should we blame all P2P for it? No? Double standards? 

And as I said above, there is terrible community at EVE Online, at WoW, at FFXIV AND at DFUW. All of them having subscription. Again....double standards much? 

Don't let me even start on the botting issue since I've botted in every MMO to day with the exception of Gw2, I just felt like playing in it

 

Saying the post that you did, given the examples that I just gave, pretty much turns you into a hypocrite. 

I have to totally agree with you, P2P does not = great game, neither does F2P/B2P = bad game. 

What people need to do is see the developers of those bad F2P/B2P models and stay away from those games. 

Hate GW2 all you want when it comes to the gameplay, but Anet has one of the best cash shops for any game i have played that has cash shops. Its not needed in anyway to play the game, but what it offers is actual value if your inclined to buy gems.

The day when crap F2P games are the only F2P games you can find is over. Thinking that all F2P or B2P are like Rappelz, or some other Perfect World crap fests is very small minded. 

Go and download Rift and play it, that is one of the best F2P games out there.

Lets not get overly emotional, and completely illogical here. If game is bad as you are trying to present it here, nobody will pay a subscription. That simple. This is a market after all. Or are you disputing market power?

If people pay subscription, they like game enough to do so. If it is not so, game will have no choice but become F2P.

If as you saying there are some good games, which are F2P, I wonder what are  bad businessmen those in distributing companies. They could have more money, but for some unexplained reason they decided not to.

I think you are wrong. They cannot have more money, because game is not good enough to keep people on subscriptions.

If not you, then some other people here on this forum cried that ESO is not GOOD ENOUGH to pay subscription.

So, it means that  only good enough games can be kept successfully on subscriptions.

If you do not get this, well there is no hope for you in getting to the bottom of this question. I mean real bottom, not imaginary one.

P.S. it is not about your personal preferences at all!

  udon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1614

3/08/14 2:40:56 PM#215
Originally posted by Kattycake

Just gonna keep this short;

A lot of people, so I've seen/heard from, believe that ESO will turn into what SWTOR once did. TERA switched, The Secret World switched, Rift...etc.

Do you think dishing $15/mo will be a bit much to some players? I mean even ArcheAge in RU Beta is $9/mo for premium.

ESO is more than a good enough game to hold onto a sub for sometime.  Having said that if they do or not is going to depend not only on the state of the game when it launches but also the kinds of support Zenimax provides post launch and what their expectations for the game are.  I think a lot of people seem to forget that SWTOR had a significant subscriber base when it went F2P.  Yea it wasn't WoW sizes but I think if a game like Rift or TSW had those kinds of numbers they would have never gone F2P/B2P.  SWTOR was a just as much a victim of the EA earnings expectations as it was any flaws in the game itself.  Also Bioware wasn't ever really given the opportunity to really follow up on launch and keep releasing things to give people a reason to hold their subs open.  Hopefully Zenimax as a private company can avoid these kinds of mistakes but it's way to early to tell right now.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's in Zenimax's hands if this game goes F2P or not as their actions post 4/4 will determine that more than anything else.

 

  Bigdaddyx

Elite Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1590

3/08/14 8:28:34 PM#216
Originally posted by kkarrabbass
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
Originally posted by kkarrabbass

 

So, what exactly are YOU up to? What point are you trying to sell? Would you repeat it? And be clear and short.

The claim that 'F2P is self destructing itself' and in future there will only be P2P MMOS. Clear and short enough?

I just asked him to explain this claim rather then just replying with 'its true because i said so'.

So, it is not your point, it is your response to someone else point. What is YOUR point?

  EQBallzz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/28/13
Posts: 103

3/09/14 6:00:57 AM#217
Originally posted by Sk1ppeR
Originally posted by blazzen67
Originally posted by Kattycake
Originally posted by Waldoe
The day it goes F2P or B2P is the day myself and many friends stop playing.

Why? It would be the same idea just altered.

why? because it will turn into a micro transaction, pay gated piece of dung like all F2P games are..dont get me started on gold farmers, bots ,and a terrible player community . so im with Waldoe, the day this game goes F2P is the day i stop playing it.

You should swallow your stupid pride and check out RIFT and Tera or the north american Aion or Gw2 or TSW. Then you can come back and say shit like what you just said. In the games I listed there is not a single paywall. None! All of you cocky subscription whiteknights are spewing crap about F2P games without playing a single good one. 

 

I can give you endless example of utterly bad P2P games. Should we blame all P2P for it? No? Double standards? 

And as I said above, there is terrible community at EVE Online, at WoW, at FFXIV AND at DFUW. All of them having subscription. Again....double standards much? 

Don't let me even start on the botting issue since I've botted in every MMO to day with the exception of Gw2, I just felt like playing in it

 

Saying the post that you did, given the examples that I just gave, pretty much turns you into a hypocrite. 

 

I disagree. I used to support Rift and Trion. Their game was solid and their customer service was top notch. After it went F2P their customer service was so bad I uninstalled the game and will never play another Trion game again (including ArcheAge which i was previously looking forward to). I can't speak much for Tera because I couldn't get very far into it. Wasn't my game. I never played Aion, either but GW2 and TSW are not F2P so don't even belong in your list. B2P is not the same as F2P. In my view B2P is the best compromise between P2P and F2P and GW2 has a pretty good model despite the fact that their end game is pretty terrible IMO. I don't necessarily blame their pay model for that fact as much as their design philosophy. Some like it I guess so that's why I just moved on. Outside of their end game and lack of trinity I really liked what GW2 had going on.

 

I hear EQ2 has made some positive changes to improve it's horrible F2P model and that may be great for a game in it's twilight years but the fact remains that there just aren't many new F2P games that actually release as F2P and are any good. Path of Exile is the only example I can come up with. The rest are financially failed games going F2P because they are desperate to survive. That's not much of a ringing endorsement for F2P and justifies the F2P criticism IMO.

  Sk1ppeR

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/12
Posts: 534

3/09/14 6:54:45 AM#218
Originally posted by EQBallzz
Originally posted by Sk1ppeR
Originally posted by blazzen67
Originally posted by Kattycake
Originally posted by Waldoe
The day it goes F2P or B2P is the day myself and many friends stop playing.

Why? It would be the same idea just altered.

why? because it will turn into a micro transaction, pay gated piece of dung like all F2P games are..dont get me started on gold farmers, bots ,and a terrible player community . so im with Waldoe, the day this game goes F2P is the day i stop playing it.

You should swallow your stupid pride and check out RIFT and Tera or the north american Aion or Gw2 or TSW. Then you can come back and say shit like what you just said. In the games I listed there is not a single paywall. None! All of you cocky subscription whiteknights are spewing crap about F2P games without playing a single good one. 

 

I can give you endless example of utterly bad P2P games. Should we blame all P2P for it? No? Double standards? 

And as I said above, there is terrible community at EVE Online, at WoW, at FFXIV AND at DFUW. All of them having subscription. Again....double standards much? 

Don't let me even start on the botting issue since I've botted in every MMO to day with the exception of Gw2, I just felt like playing in it

 

Saying the post that you did, given the examples that I just gave, pretty much turns you into a hypocrite. 

 

I disagree. I used to support Rift and Trion. Their game was solid and their customer service was top notch. After it went F2P their customer service was so bad I uninstalled the game and will never play another Trion game again (including ArcheAge which i was previously looking forward to). I can't speak much for Tera because I couldn't get very far into it. Wasn't my game. I never played Aion, either but GW2 and TSW are not F2P so don't even belong in your list. B2P is not the same as F2P. In my view B2P is the best compromise between P2P and F2P and GW2 has a pretty good model despite the fact that their end game is pretty terrible IMO. I don't necessarily blame their pay model for that fact as much as their design philosophy. Some like it I guess so that's why I just moved on. Outside of their end game and lack of trinity I really liked what GW2 had going on.

 

I hear EQ2 has made some positive changes to improve it's horrible F2P model and that may be great for a game in it's twilight years but the fact remains that there just aren't many new F2P games that actually release as F2P and are any good. Path of Exile is the only example I can come up with. The rest are financially failed games going F2P because they are desperate to survive. That's not much of a ringing endorsement for F2P and justifies the F2P criticism IMO.

So ... what, you have a date with customer support each week? I went playing RIFT after it went F2P. Before that it really looked just like WoW to me (given they share almost the same interface) but regardless, once i started playing it, I never felt the urge to contact customer support. Didn't encounter game braking bug, they took my money when I wanted to use the cash shop. Its all cool. 

TERA failed financially because they couldn't push content out fast enough. We all know how bitchy subscribers get when they don't get their new shiny. They were promising stuff and rarely delivered. Obviously the customers punished them for that, but that doesn't make the base game bad. EQNext is to launch as F2P from the get go, is it already a failed game? 

But yeah, I really support with my both hands the B2P model. I like the idea of going back to a game whenever I want and I like the idea of not feeling pressured to "cash-in" that subscription fee. Or have all of my gaming habbits around only one game. I did that as a kid, now I have to think how much free time i have and what could I achieve in my limitted time. Hell, i love MMOs, but if you check out my Raptr profile, you'll see that lately I play more and more Battlefield 3 in 30 minute sessions :) 

That's one of the reasons I'll never touch TESO. 

  maji

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/15/04
Posts: 1909

3/09/14 6:57:59 AM#219

Of course it will.

Like most MMORPGs these days, it'll launch as a B2P game, where people cash out a lot of money for a preorder (maybe even some sort of deluxe edition) and a subscription. Once the hyper is over, the number of playing users will drop. Then it'll go F2P. I might also get an expansion between launch and the F2P thing, to get the users who stopped playing pay subscription again for a while.

I mean, it already starts with a cash shop like system (not sure if it has an actual cash shop implemented on launch). People who pay more get more. The times when everyone paid the same for a game and had the same chances are over.

Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  ImperialSun

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/05/12
Posts: 231

3/09/14 8:18:25 AM#220

 

Being as the devs have now confirmed they are no longer making the game for MMORPG players OR Elder Scrolls fans then yes, the game will move to freemium model and cash shop economy extremely quickly IMO.

 

So sad...

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