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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Destruction of LA event... does anyone really enjoy this?

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103 posts found
  Hariken

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/15/13
Posts: 464

2/25/14 10:33:56 AM#41
I logged in just to check this out. Now i'm hooked on the game again. To destroy a major hub in the game is really amazing and it may seem like a zerg to some but its the most fun zerg i've ever been it. And the rewards are pretty good. Just to see the city destroyed is really cool. Its a war and  anyone in the game can join in. So called zerg in this case is not a bad thing. The mobs are pretty powerful with their aoe damage so you have to keep moving. It really is alot of fun. What i really llike about GW2 is it was made for large groups because even with that many players and mobs onscreen i get zero lag.
  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2588

2/25/14 11:31:21 AM#42
Originally posted by fiontar

I was a huge champion of this game for a long time. I still believe the game, at release, was probably the best MMO, at release, we've seen in the history of MMOs, but certainly the best since WoW.

As a Buy to Play game, that core game is still a huge value and I can't complain about what I paid for over 1,800 hours of enjoyment.

The problem is that some key people, like Game Director Eric Flannum and others, left shortly after launch and the studio never has recovered from the brain drain. the Living Story has, with few exceptions, been a horrible waste of content development resources. The smoke and mirrors flash, combined with vapidness, exemplified by this current Destruction of Lion's Arch zerg fest and the horrible Queen's Gauntlet "zerg against pojntless mobs standing around in meaningless zoo exhibit size plots of land" content, are more than just a disappointment as content, but they actively war against many of the key design principles the game was created around.

For me, the biggest groan worthy moment since launch was reading a recent interview with current Game Director Colin Johanson where he essentially said that things would have to continue to get worse with their numbers for another year before they would have to give up on Living Story and do something different to try to turn the game around.

I mean, unreal. The sad thing is that not only are they pushing forward with a failed concept, but they seem to be deliberately waging war against the original GW2 Manifesto in an effort to ensure that building on that original foundation just will not be viable by the time they are done screwing the game with Living Story and other negative changes to game play.

I've never, ever, seen any organization so committed to turning triumph into tragedy. They launched with 80% of the Manifesto realized in a tremendous product. It was a no brainer that they would move the game closer and closer towards the ideal with each ongoing update. Instead, it seems they've abandoned the work of the first five years and are laboring at warp speed to morph the game into a cliche of everything that has been wrong with the MMO genre since the launch of WoW.

Anyway, no, I don't enjoy it, I hate it, not just because this event is horrible, but because it doubles down on what, to me, has been a disastrous year+ of game killing "content" and changes. I can't help but be livid at how they have destroyed the once vast potential of the game and the glee with which they remain committed to a failed strategy.

News Flash: Eric Flannum didn't leave Anet.

What key people did leave after GW2 release?

The only person I know of was Kekai Kotaki and he is an artist - I doubt anyone is complaining about the art style of the Living Story.

People need to stop mistaken the Live Team (which includes the Living Story) with all of the Anet man power.

The Living Story is a freebie that is self sustained by the cash shop and has no interference whatsoever with any other content development.

The reason you stopped seeing the key people you even though they left Anet is because they are working on stuff you don't know about.

And lets reduce the Living Story to zergs and ignore Tequatl, the Marionette, the TriWurm, The Bazaar of the four winds, etc.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  jircris

Elite Member

Joined: 2/03/07
Posts: 274

2/25/14 11:57:20 PM#43
In all honesty im loving the new living story. i play a thief..and die quite a bit in that chaos but the rewards are very nice..i mean i make 5-15gold per run. cant argue with it. and just to see a city that i HATED in ruins made me laugh
  fiontar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3698

2/26/14 9:24:37 PM#44
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by fiontar

I was a huge champion of this game for a long time. I still believe the game, at release, was probably the best MMO, at release, we've seen in the history of MMOs, but certainly the best since WoW.

As a Buy to Play game, that core game is still a huge value and I can't complain about what I paid for over 1,800 hours of enjoyment.

The problem is that some key people, like Game Director Eric Flannum and others, left shortly after launch and the studio never has recovered from the brain drain. the Living Story has, with few exceptions, been a horrible waste of content development resources. The smoke and mirrors flash, combined with vapidness, exemplified by this current Destruction of Lion's Arch zerg fest and the horrible Queen's Gauntlet "zerg against pojntless mobs standing around in meaningless zoo exhibit size plots of land" content, are more than just a disappointment as content, but they actively war against many of the key design principles the game was created around.

For me, the biggest groan worthy moment since launch was reading a recent interview with current Game Director Colin Johanson where he essentially said that things would have to continue to get worse with their numbers for another year before they would have to give up on Living Story and do something different to try to turn the game around.

I mean, unreal. The sad thing is that not only are they pushing forward with a failed concept, but they seem to be deliberately waging war against the original GW2 Manifesto in an effort to ensure that building on that original foundation just will not be viable by the time they are done screwing the game with Living Story and other negative changes to game play.

I've never, ever, seen any organization so committed to turning triumph into tragedy. They launched with 80% of the Manifesto realized in a tremendous product. It was a no brainer that they would move the game closer and closer towards the ideal with each ongoing update. Instead, it seems they've abandoned the work of the first five years and are laboring at warp speed to morph the game into a cliche of everything that has been wrong with the MMO genre since the launch of WoW.

Anyway, no, I don't enjoy it, I hate it, not just because this event is horrible, but because it doubles down on what, to me, has been a disastrous year+ of game killing "content" and changes. I can't help but be livid at how they have destroyed the once vast potential of the game and the glee with which they remain committed to a failed strategy.

News Flash: Eric Flannum didn't leave Anet.

What key people did leave after GW2 release?

The only person I know of was Kekai Kotaki and he is an artist - I doubt anyone is complaining about the art style of the Living Story.

People need to stop mistaken the Live Team (which includes the Living Story) with all of the Anet man power.

The Living Story is a freebie that is self sustained by the cash shop and has no interference whatsoever with any other content development.

The reason you stopped seeing the key people you even though they left Anet is because they are working on stuff you don't know about.

And lets reduce the Living Story to zergs and ignore Tequatl, the Marionette, the TriWurm, The Bazaar of the four winds, etc.

Eric Flannum is no longer at Arenanet. Colin Johanson has filled his position.

Zerg fests are not the only problem with Living Story, just the most obvious middle finger given to the Manifesto and the original design principles.

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

  timidobserver

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/15/14
Posts: 247

2/26/14 9:33:02 PM#45

No, I do not enjoy it at all. I only still login to GW2 to keep my guild memberships active and WvW from time to time. 

 

They have gone for Quantity over Quality with these updates. Many of the top MMOs have stories that can be turned into books and sold. Seriously, who would buy a book featuring Scarlet as the villain. If you would buy it, you are probably under 15 years old. She is like a villain out of a power rangers or something. I cannot take her seriously. 

  KhinRunite

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 897

2/26/14 9:43:40 PM#46
Originally posted by fiontar
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by fiontar

I was a huge champion of this game for a long time. I still believe the game, at release, was probably the best MMO, at release, we've seen in the history of MMOs, but certainly the best since WoW.

As a Buy to Play game, that core game is still a huge value and I can't complain about what I paid for over 1,800 hours of enjoyment.

The problem is that some key people, like Game Director Eric Flannum and others, left shortly after launch and the studio never has recovered from the brain drain. the Living Story has, with few exceptions, been a horrible waste of content development resources. The smoke and mirrors flash, combined with vapidness, exemplified by this current Destruction of Lion's Arch zerg fest and the horrible Queen's Gauntlet "zerg against pojntless mobs standing around in meaningless zoo exhibit size plots of land" content, are more than just a disappointment as content, but they actively war against many of the key design principles the game was created around.

For me, the biggest groan worthy moment since launch was reading a recent interview with current Game Director Colin Johanson where he essentially said that things would have to continue to get worse with their numbers for another year before they would have to give up on Living Story and do something different to try to turn the game around.

I mean, unreal. The sad thing is that not only are they pushing forward with a failed concept, but they seem to be deliberately waging war against the original GW2 Manifesto in an effort to ensure that building on that original foundation just will not be viable by the time they are done screwing the game with Living Story and other negative changes to game play.

I've never, ever, seen any organization so committed to turning triumph into tragedy. They launched with 80% of the Manifesto realized in a tremendous product. It was a no brainer that they would move the game closer and closer towards the ideal with each ongoing update. Instead, it seems they've abandoned the work of the first five years and are laboring at warp speed to morph the game into a cliche of everything that has been wrong with the MMO genre since the launch of WoW.

Anyway, no, I don't enjoy it, I hate it, not just because this event is horrible, but because it doubles down on what, to me, has been a disastrous year+ of game killing "content" and changes. I can't help but be livid at how they have destroyed the once vast potential of the game and the glee with which they remain committed to a failed strategy.

News Flash: Eric Flannum didn't leave Anet.

What key people did leave after GW2 release?

The only person I know of was Kekai Kotaki and he is an artist - I doubt anyone is complaining about the art style of the Living Story.

People need to stop mistaken the Live Team (which includes the Living Story) with all of the Anet man power.

The Living Story is a freebie that is self sustained by the cash shop and has no interference whatsoever with any other content development.

The reason you stopped seeing the key people you even though they left Anet is because they are working on stuff you don't know about.

And lets reduce the Living Story to zergs and ignore Tequatl, the Marionette, the TriWurm, The Bazaar of the four winds, etc.

Eric Flannum is no longer at Arenanet. Colin Johanson has filled his position.

Zerg fests are not the only problem with Living Story, just the most obvious middle finger given to the Manifesto and the original design principles.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Where-is-Eric-Flannum-1

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/eric-flannum/12/194/663

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eric_Flannum

Can't find any info about Eric leaving Anet, sorry.

And move on from the manifesto for God's sake. It's most likely just you misinterpreting what they said.

  fiontar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3698

2/27/14 12:06:04 AM#47
Originally posted by KhinRunite
Originally posted by fiontar
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by fiontar

I was a huge champion of this game for a long time. I still believe the game, at release, was probably the best MMO, at release, we've seen in the history of MMOs, but certainly the best since WoW.

As a Buy to Play game, that core game is still a huge value and I can't complain about what I paid for over 1,800 hours of enjoyment.

The problem is that some key people, like Game Director Eric Flannum and others, left shortly after launch and the studio never has recovered from the brain drain. the Living Story has, with few exceptions, been a horrible waste of content development resources. The smoke and mirrors flash, combined with vapidness, exemplified by this current Destruction of Lion's Arch zerg fest and the horrible Queen's Gauntlet "zerg against pojntless mobs standing around in meaningless zoo exhibit size plots of land" content, are more than just a disappointment as content, but they actively war against many of the key design principles the game was created around.

For me, the biggest groan worthy moment since launch was reading a recent interview with current Game Director Colin Johanson where he essentially said that things would have to continue to get worse with their numbers for another year before they would have to give up on Living Story and do something different to try to turn the game around.

I mean, unreal. The sad thing is that not only are they pushing forward with a failed concept, but they seem to be deliberately waging war against the original GW2 Manifesto in an effort to ensure that building on that original foundation just will not be viable by the time they are done screwing the game with Living Story and other negative changes to game play.

I've never, ever, seen any organization so committed to turning triumph into tragedy. They launched with 80% of the Manifesto realized in a tremendous product. It was a no brainer that they would move the game closer and closer towards the ideal with each ongoing update. Instead, it seems they've abandoned the work of the first five years and are laboring at warp speed to morph the game into a cliche of everything that has been wrong with the MMO genre since the launch of WoW.

Anyway, no, I don't enjoy it, I hate it, not just because this event is horrible, but because it doubles down on what, to me, has been a disastrous year+ of game killing "content" and changes. I can't help but be livid at how they have destroyed the once vast potential of the game and the glee with which they remain committed to a failed strategy.

News Flash: Eric Flannum didn't leave Anet.

What key people did leave after GW2 release?

The only person I know of was Kekai Kotaki and he is an artist - I doubt anyone is complaining about the art style of the Living Story.

People need to stop mistaken the Live Team (which includes the Living Story) with all of the Anet man power.

The Living Story is a freebie that is self sustained by the cash shop and has no interference whatsoever with any other content development.

The reason you stopped seeing the key people you even though they left Anet is because they are working on stuff you don't know about.

And lets reduce the Living Story to zergs and ignore Tequatl, the Marionette, the TriWurm, The Bazaar of the four winds, etc.

Eric Flannum is no longer at Arenanet. Colin Johanson has filled his position.

Zerg fests are not the only problem with Living Story, just the most obvious middle finger given to the Manifesto and the original design principles.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Where-is-Eric-Flannum-1

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/eric-flannum/12/194/663

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eric_Flannum

Can't find any info about Eric leaving Anet, sorry.

And move on from the manifesto for God's sake. It's most likely just you misinterpreting what they said.

NDA and Non-compete clauses often mean top staff at a game studio that make an exit don't  resurface for a while after leaving. I just hope next we see of Eric, he'll be spearheading an MMO title that will do what GW2 was supposed to have done, or will do the game one better.

ANet have clearly abandoned the Manifesto, which explains your eagerness to do so as well, but the manifesto and other ideals the game was based on made the game, at launch, one of the best MMOs at release. Every step they've taken away from those ideals have diminished the game and it's once vast potential.

They were 80% there and the way forward was clear. Living Story has been ruinous to the accomplishment that was this game at launch, charting a course that has moved the game further and further from it's obvious potential. The genre has been replete with games that have failed during development and imploded because of a less than stellar launch product. I can't recall any other game that has ever launched such a superb product, only to systematically extend great effort to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. (It may be some what analogous to the SWG NGE fiasco, but SWG was no GW2).

The whole thing is very frustrating for genre vets like me who know how rare truly good MMOs are and how close GW2 had come to being the type of game many of us have been praying for for years, in my case for a decade and a half. The game, the Manifesto and it design ideals also pointed the way for a paradigm shift in MMO game design that would finally end the era of the WoW-based product. That "revolution" is now in question, not only because ANet have abandoned the cause and reverted back to failed design doctrine, but also because the failure of the game to fulfill it's financial potential will make others considering the risk of breaking away from the status quo even less likely to do so.

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

  fiontar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3698

2/27/14 12:23:06 AM#48
Originally posted by timidobserver

No, I do not enjoy it at all. I only still login to GW2 to keep my guild memberships active and WvW from time to time. 

 

They have gone for Quantity over Quality with these updates. Many of the top MMOs have stories that can be turned into books and sold. Seriously, who would buy a book featuring Scarlet as the villain. If you would buy it, you are probably under 15 years old. She is like a villain out of a power rangers or something. I cannot take her seriously. 

I agree on Scarlet. Not only the kind of Villain and story line you might expect on a bad kids action show, but honestly, something you might expect to have been designed by and targeted at children. Two people completely MIA since launch have been Ree Soesbee and Jeff Grubb. Ree did finish the GW2 novel, which sadly flopped, but it's hard to believe that any of the Living Story Storylines could ever have seen the light of day as long as either of them was still a head writer for the game.  

I've stopped playing completely until the Scarlet story line has ended. I was hopeful that once it was over, there might be some hope for change as 2014 progressed, but seeing Colin the other day saying the game would have to continue to lose ground for another year before they would have to give up on what they've been doing with Living Story and try something completely different, I think it's going to be a while before there is any chance for the game to get back on track. Assuming, of course the will and talent needed to restore the game and reclaim some of it's once vast potential.

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

  An4thor

Elite Member

Joined: 4/21/11
Posts: 420

2/27/14 2:28:37 AM#49
Originally posted by fiontar

...They were 80% there and the way forward was clear. Living Story has been ruinous to the accomplishment that was this game at launch, charting a course that has moved the game further and further from it's obvious potential... 

THANK GOD this game moved from what it was at launch; i'm not sure what exactly you liked about the first 5 months of the game (before f&f). It was boring to say the least.

If removing a few developers let the game move forward, then that was a good move on their part.

Do you think that Lost Shores was made from the ls team? I highly doubt it was made after launch, the time to develop a full map was way too short. There was no potential to gw2 if they didn't implement the living story. An expansion every year didn't work for gw1 why would it work for gw2?

An expansion every two years is possible only if you add proper endgame which might be raids or the living story in gw2 case. They haven't scrapped the idea of an expansion; but it's not being planned yet.

 

The living story has many flaws; but with every update it's getting better and better. Also with the end of scarlet we can say goodbye to the faillure that f&f was and what it led till today, and move forward to a new season which we know nothing of.

  Sk1ppeR

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/12
Posts: 534

2/27/14 2:53:12 AM#50

Accept it... Gw2 is awesome. Nothing you haters say matters. The game is the best MMO to come around. As I have said many times, if you don't like the living story, don't play it. Nobody is forcing you to. It's just a part of the game that is not even shoved down your throat. You get a mail every other week that *something* has come up. That's it. What you do with it is up to the beholder. 

 

And some guy said that TESO is the future. I say what a load of bullcrap. Seriously, that clumsy shit called TESO can't hold a candle against Gw2. Sure if you enjoy being a delivery boy for 15$/mo. sure then it makes sense, but combat-wise TESO holds no ground. It uses the same old stupid trinity system which FORCES gameplay and I pity all of you that call it "having-a-role". It's a cheap excuse for being lazy. The photorealistic art style is so poorly implemented that I feel as if I'm playing DFUW all over again. 

 

And to everyone complaining that Gw2 has poor performance, you guys should really consider upgrade of your 10 year old rigs. My i5-2500k clocked at 4.5Ghz (air cooled) pushes out 40 fps at minimum on high graphics. There are addons that decrease the amount of SFX if that's what bothers you. But yeah...it's always easier to just being lazy and complain on a public forum :) 

On the CPU side, a Haswell i7 CPU manages to eat up Gw2 at stock clock. Constant 60 fps. The i5 I just listed is making its 4th year. Yes that's the initial Sandy Bridge line. In computing that's forever :) 

 

Although I wouldn't mind if ANet decides to use mantle as a drop-in renderer replacement. But then you nvidia guys would cry so hard :( 

 

P.S: You know at the marionette events, ANet pulled a nice statistics....that statistic they showed that many of you don't even use traits, at all, so the whole event was made to force you to improve your builds. And Gw2 really clicks to you once you start figuring out the mechanics and the various synergies on different trait lines :) 

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5659

2/27/14 3:24:39 AM#51
Originally posted by fiontar
Originally posted by KhinRunite
Originally posted by fiontar
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by fiontar

I was a huge champion of this game for a long time. I still believe the game, at release, was probably the best MMO, at release, we've seen in the history of MMOs, but certainly the best since WoW.

As a Buy to Play game, that core game is still a huge value and I can't complain about what I paid for over 1,800 hours of enjoyment.

The problem is that some key people, like Game Director Eric Flannum and others, left shortly after launch and the studio never has recovered from the brain drain. the Living Story has, with few exceptions, been a horrible waste of content development resources. The smoke and mirrors flash, combined with vapidness, exemplified by this current Destruction of Lion's Arch zerg fest and the horrible Queen's Gauntlet "zerg against pojntless mobs standing around in meaningless zoo exhibit size plots of land" content, are more than just a disappointment as content, but they actively war against many of the key design principles the game was created around.

For me, the biggest groan worthy moment since launch was reading a recent interview with current Game Director Colin Johanson where he essentially said that things would have to continue to get worse with their numbers for another year before they would have to give up on Living Story and do something different to try to turn the game around.

I mean, unreal. The sad thing is that not only are they pushing forward with a failed concept, but they seem to be deliberately waging war against the original GW2 Manifesto in an effort to ensure that building on that original foundation just will not be viable by the time they are done screwing the game with Living Story and other negative changes to game play.

I've never, ever, seen any organization so committed to turning triumph into tragedy. They launched with 80% of the Manifesto realized in a tremendous product. It was a no brainer that they would move the game closer and closer towards the ideal with each ongoing update. Instead, it seems they've abandoned the work of the first five years and are laboring at warp speed to morph the game into a cliche of everything that has been wrong with the MMO genre since the launch of WoW.

Anyway, no, I don't enjoy it, I hate it, not just because this event is horrible, but because it doubles down on what, to me, has been a disastrous year+ of game killing "content" and changes. I can't help but be livid at how they have destroyed the once vast potential of the game and the glee with which they remain committed to a failed strategy.

News Flash: Eric Flannum didn't leave Anet.

What key people did leave after GW2 release?

The only person I know of was Kekai Kotaki and he is an artist - I doubt anyone is complaining about the art style of the Living Story.

People need to stop mistaken the Live Team (which includes the Living Story) with all of the Anet man power.

The Living Story is a freebie that is self sustained by the cash shop and has no interference whatsoever with any other content development.

The reason you stopped seeing the key people you even though they left Anet is because they are working on stuff you don't know about.

And lets reduce the Living Story to zergs and ignore Tequatl, the Marionette, the TriWurm, The Bazaar of the four winds, etc.

Eric Flannum is no longer at Arenanet. Colin Johanson has filled his position.

Zerg fests are not the only problem with Living Story, just the most obvious middle finger given to the Manifesto and the original design principles.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Where-is-Eric-Flannum-1

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/eric-flannum/12/194/663

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eric_Flannum

Can't find any info about Eric leaving Anet, sorry.

And move on from the manifesto for God's sake. It's most likely just you misinterpreting what they said.

NDA and Non-compete clauses often mean top staff at a game studio that make an exit don't  resurface for a while after leaving. I just hope next we see of Eric, he'll be spearheading an MMO title that will do what GW2 was supposed to have done, or will do the game one better.

ANet have clearly abandoned the Manifesto, which explains your eagerness to do so as well, but the manifesto and other ideals the game was based on made the game, at launch, one of the best MMOs at release. Every step they've taken away from those ideals have diminished the game and it's once vast potential.

They were 80% there and the way forward was clear. Living Story has been ruinous to the accomplishment that was this game at launch, charting a course that has moved the game further and further from it's obvious potential. The genre has been replete with games that have failed during development and imploded because of a less than stellar launch product. I can't recall any other game that has ever launched such a superb product, only to systematically extend great effort to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. (It may be some what analogous to the SWG NGE fiasco, but SWG was no GW2).

The whole thing is very frustrating for genre vets like me who know how rare truly good MMOs are and how close GW2 had come to being the type of game many of us have been praying for for years, in my case for a decade and a half. The game, the Manifesto and it design ideals also pointed the way for a paradigm shift in MMO game design that would finally end the era of the WoW-based product. That "revolution" is now in question, not only because ANet have abandoned the cause and reverted back to failed design doctrine, but also because the failure of the game to fulfill it's financial potential will make others considering the risk of breaking away from the status quo even less likely to do so.

Just say you were wrong about Flannum. Those links say you're wrong and you have nothing but some made up NDA b.s. Unless you can come up with something better, stop saying he left.

There are things I like and don't like about the living story, but I don't think this means they abandoned the manifesto. I would go so far as to say the manifesto probably should be abandoned. It was a bit pompous and really they should just focus on making the best game they can. The manifesto takes itself and gaming way too seriously. And no disrespect intended but your post comes across as taking your own opinion too seriously. We have more good gaming choices now than ever before.

If people consider this game having failed its revenue potential, a game that made half again as much as EVE online did last year, then we have some problems in our revenue expectations not with game design and the ability to make money. But I suspect all that is just red herring fodder to throw on a fire of discontent.

The current event is nearly unique in what it is delivering. For one it breaks the idea that public quests are best accomplished zerg mode. That's not the obvious feature. The game has destroyed the major hub of the game and totally disrupted previous game play flow. This happens nearly never in this genre. We don't know if they'll rebuild it to its previous glory or what the future of the city entails. That alone should be commended. This is the sort of thing that mmo worlds never see. It's unfortunate that this isn't being looked at closer by the game journalists (and I use that very loosely), podcasters, and publications. Instead we see the same old pre-launch marketing spiels for the next two upcoming releases. That's truly sad.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  KhinRunite

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 897

2/27/14 3:32:29 AM#52


Originally posted by fiontar

ANet have clearly abandoned the Manifesto, which explains your eagerness to do so as well, but the manifesto and other ideals the game was based on made the game, at launch, one of the best MMOs at release. Every step they've taken away from those ideals have diminished the game and it's once vast potential.

They were 80% there and the way forward was clear. Living Story has been ruinous to the accomplishment that was this game at launch, charting a course that has moved the game further and further from it's obvious potential. The genre has been replete with games that have failed during development and imploded because of a less than stellar launch product. I can't recall any other game that has ever launched such a superb product, only to systematically extend great effort to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. (It may be some what analogous to the SWG NGE fiasco, but SWG was no GW2).

The whole thing is very frustrating for genre vets like me who know how rare truly good MMOs are and how close GW2 had come to being the type of game many of us have been praying for for years, in my case for a decade and a half. The game, the Manifesto and it design ideals also pointed the way for a paradigm shift in MMO game design that would finally end the era of the WoW-based product. That "revolution" is now in question, not only because ANet have abandoned the cause and reverted back to failed design doctrine, but also because the failure of the game to fulfill it's financial potential will make others considering the risk of breaking away from the status quo even less likely to do so.

Not abandoning anything at all, because for me they delivered on their manifesto. In the first place they didn't say too much, unless there's another manifesto I haven't seen yet.

Mike O'Brien: "We founded ArenaNet to innovate, so Guild Wars 2 is our opportunity to question everything, to make a game that defies existing conventions. If you love MMOs, you'll want to check out Guild Wars 2, and if you hate MMOs, you'll really want to check out Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1 and puts it into a persistent world that's got more active combat, a fully-branching, personalized storyline, a new event system to get people playing together, and still no monthly fees."

They're all in the game. Active combat. Branching personal story. Co-op based event system. No monthly fee.

Daniel Dociu: "The look of Guild Wars 2 is stylized. We're going for a painterly, illustrated aesthetic. Everything in our world feels handcrafted and artisanal. We treat our environments as if they are characters themselves."

Colin Johanson: "When you look at the art in our game, you say 'Wow, that's visually stunning. I've never seen anything like that before,' and then when you play the combat in our game, you say 'Wow, that's incredible. I've never seen anything like that.' In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. 'I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.' That's great. We just don't want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat."

They delivered here. I never had to grind my way to get to the activities that I want. I can enter dungeons with only my level as the barrier, but getting to 80 in the game is far from an example of a 'grind' so who cares. Recent activities completely remove the barrier by upscaling me when needed. The 'grind' that Colin spoke of here is the level grind to get to the 'fun' part (endgame), which is non existent in the game. This is not about grinding for gear, which I myself don't participate in, but I can still go and enjoy any and all events/dungeons I please.

Ree Soesbee: "As a structure, the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you are doing. The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes later. It doesn't care that I'm there."

Talking about personal story.

Colin Johanson: "You'll get quest text that tells you 'I'm being attacked by these horrible things,' and it's not actually happening. In the game world, these horrible centaurs are standing around in a field, and you get a quest step that says 'Go kill ten centaurs.' We don't think that's OK. You see what's happening. You see centaurs running to the trading post, knocking the walls down, burning and killing the merchants."

Though ultimately DEs cycle too often having almost negligible effect in the world, what he said are all in the game.

Ree Soesbee: "We do not want to build the same MMO everyone else is building, and in Guild Wars 2, it's your world. It's your story. You affect things around you in a very permanent way."

Personal story.

Colin Johanson: "Cause and effect: A single decision made by a player cascades out in a chain of events."

Event chains, Meta events.

Ree Soesbee: "You're meeting new people whom you will then see again. You're rescuing a village that will stay rescued, who then remember you. The most important thing in any game should be the player. We have built a game for them."

Personal story/personal instance. In the world, the townspeople do celebrate you after you save their village. But like I said, the glory and fame is short lived because the village will be attacked again not long after.

They keep on improving on their game at every update. Although there are still shortcomings, turning their back on the manifesto is something they didn't do.

 

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2588

2/27/14 3:47:38 AM#53
Originally posted by fiontar

Eric Flannum is no longer at Arenanet. Colin Johanson has filled his position.

Zerg fests are not the only problem with Living Story, just the most obvious middle finger given to the Manifesto and the original design principles.

Eric Flannum is at Arenanet and he is the Lead Game Designer and has been so for a while and you won't be able to produce any sources for him leaving since he haven't.

Non compete clauses don't prevent someone to announce he left.

Colin Johanson is the Game Director.

Any other key people that left?

How does the Living Story gives the middle finger to the Manifesto?

For months you claimed for more activities in the Open World to bring back people from the dungeons. Parts of the Living Story did exactly that.

 

Living Story gets so much hate just because people can't wrap their heads around the fact that the Living Story is self sustaining and it is being created by basically Anet b-team while the main Anet people that created GW1 and GW2 are working in something else.

The Living Story actually helps the cash shop generating the revenue that gives Anet the time they need to produce the content/ideas they want and release them when they are ready.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Gardavsshade

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/11
Posts: 617

2/27/14 5:28:58 AM#54
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by fiontar

Eric Flannum is no longer at Arenanet. Colin Johanson has filled his position.

Zerg fests are not the only problem with Living Story, just the most obvious middle finger given to the Manifesto and the original design principles.

Eric Flannum is at Arenanet and he is the Lead Game Designer and has been so for a while and you won't be able to produce any sources for him leaving since he haven't.

Non compete clauses don't prevent someone to announce he left.

Colin Johanson is the Game Director.

Any other key people that left?

How does the Living Story gives the middle finger to the Manifesto?

For months you claimed for more activities in the Open World to bring back people from the dungeons. Parts of the Living Story did exactly that.

 

Living Story gets so much hate just because people can't wrap their heads around the fact that the Living Story is self sustaining and it is being created by basically Anet b-team while the main Anet people that created GW1 and GW2 are working in something else.

The Living Story actually helps the cash shop generating the revenue that gives Anet the time they need to produce the content/ideas they want and release them when they are ready.

I'd like to comment on this one... a general comment about MMO management of personal....

My personal preference is as follows.... I want (as a Player and customer) all content editions and expansions to a MMO to be made BY THE ORIGINAL CREATORS of a MMO.

Not the "B-Team" or any other group of Devs brought in to replace the original Devs. Let the "B-Team" create their own MMO and then stay with it.

I'm not saying chain the Devs to their chairs and order out fast food daily... I'm saying dispense the the planned removal of whole Dev teams just because a MMO launches.

and I know it won't happen, but I would prefer it that way.... many of the MMOs I left because the MMO changed in tone and flavor because the original Devs had been removed and the new Devs just "didn't get it".


Nothing to see here... just another MMO Ghost....

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2588

2/27/14 6:01:28 AM#55
Originally posted by Gardavsshade
 

I'd like to comment on this one... a general comment about MMO management of personal....

My personal preference is as follows.... I want (as a Player and customer) all content editions and expansions to a MMO to be made BY THE ORIGINAL CREATORS of a MMO.

Not the "B-Team" or any other group of Devs brought in to replace the original Devs. Let the "B-Team" create their own MMO and then stay with it.

I'm not saying chain the Devs to their chairs and order out fast food daily... I'm saying dispense the the planned removal of whole Dev teams just because a MMO launches.

and I know it won't happen, but I would prefer it that way.... many of the MMOs I left because the MMO changed in tone and flavor because the original Devs had been removed and the new Devs just "didn't get it".

It isn't exactly the case of GW2 and Anet.

The B-team is people that worked in GW2 but Anet pretty much doubled the size from the end of GW1 to release of GW2.

It is just giving the opportunity to the "new guys" to show their stuff while giving players something new to do.

For example, http://www.guildwars2hub.com/features/interviews/exclusive-interview-arenanets-bobby-stein

"We made some internal changes to the team that, while drastic, improved our ability to concentrate on the story and dialog. Editing, which was formerly a sub-team of the Writing Team, was spun off to become a core services group. We then assumed storytelling responsibility for the Living World initiative, whereas before we were solely responsible for event and ambient (a.k.a. non-story) content."

But the core guys are probably working in the meat and bones of GW2 going forward.

That is the reason that the Living Story started as something mostly temporary, something like a big side quest, but the players complained about that.

If you see, Anet didn't layoff any of the big names.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Sk1ppeR

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/12
Posts: 534

2/27/14 6:05:53 AM#56

AFAIK one guy left. That is Robert Hrouda, the original dungeon designer. The circumstances were weird about his absence but my point is ... he announced it, even at Twitter, also at LinkedIn. 

So whatever garbage the guy above has been fed with, should be met with precaution (the NDA guy).

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2588

2/27/14 6:10:22 AM#57
Originally posted by Sk1ppeR

AFAIK one guy left. That is Robert Hrouda, the original dungeon designer. The circumstances were weird about his absence but my point is ... he announced it, even at Twitter, also at LinkedIn. 

So whatever garbage the guy above has been fed with, should be met with precaution (the NDA guy).

I don't think he was the original Dungeon designer although he had a major participation in their creation.

What he was responsible for was the dungeon overhaul after release.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2588

2/27/14 6:31:22 AM#58

Talking about Robert Hrouda here is an interview with him from March 2013 a few months before he was laid off.

http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/guild-wars-insider-interviews-dungeon-designer-robert-hrouda/

Have you guys thought about maybe adding some kind of side-bonuses to dungeons before? Something similar to the extra things you could do in GW1 in Missions to get bonuses. It could be something very simple, like perform X amount of combos on bosses, or trying to survive the dungeon without dying once. This could be used to reward players for better gameplay, and you could give them things such as more tokens, or even specific rewards for that dungeon.

I would LOVE to add more content to dungeons. Random events, bonus events, awesome puzzles – you name it, I want more in it. There’s only so many hours in a day that two people can devote though, and right now we’re doing some pretty substantial work that our next content patch will have. When we get time though, you bet I want to add more.

Anet Live Dungeon Team is/was 2 people.

I also remember reading that the skill Balance Team was also liek 1 or 2 people (I think it was posted in the guildwars2 forums).

People see the Living Story and say "they should be using these resources to make an expansion".

But the resources used by the Live Team are minimal and without the Live Team and the Living Story all of those employees would have to be laid off.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  fiontar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3698

2/27/14 5:00:55 PM#59
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by fiontar
Originally posted by KhinRunite
Originally posted by fiontar
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by fiontar

I was a huge champion of this game for a long time. I still believe the game, at release, was probably the best MMO, at release, we've seen in the history of MMOs, but certainly the best since WoW.

As a Buy to Play game, that core game is still a huge value and I can't complain about what I paid for over 1,800 hours of enjoyment.

The problem is that some key people, like Game Director Eric Flannum and others, left shortly after launch and the studio never has recovered from the brain drain. the Living Story has, with few exceptions, been a horrible waste of content development resources. The smoke and mirrors flash, combined with vapidness, exemplified by this current Destruction of Lion's Arch zerg fest and the horrible Queen's Gauntlet "zerg against pojntless mobs standing around in meaningless zoo exhibit size plots of land" content, are more than just a disappointment as content, but they actively war against many of the key design principles the game was created around.

For me, the biggest groan worthy moment since launch was reading a recent interview with current Game Director Colin Johanson where he essentially said that things would have to continue to get worse with their numbers for another year before they would have to give up on Living Story and do something different to try to turn the game around.

I mean, unreal. The sad thing is that not only are they pushing forward with a failed concept, but they seem to be deliberately waging war against the original GW2 Manifesto in an effort to ensure that building on that original foundation just will not be viable by the time they are done screwing the game with Living Story and other negative changes to game play.

I've never, ever, seen any organization so committed to turning triumph into tragedy. They launched with 80% of the Manifesto realized in a tremendous product. It was a no brainer that they would move the game closer and closer towards the ideal with each ongoing update. Instead, it seems they've abandoned the work of the first five years and are laboring at warp speed to morph the game into a cliche of everything that has been wrong with the MMO genre since the launch of WoW.

Anyway, no, I don't enjoy it, I hate it, not just because this event is horrible, but because it doubles down on what, to me, has been a disastrous year+ of game killing "content" and changes. I can't help but be livid at how they have destroyed the once vast potential of the game and the glee with which they remain committed to a failed strategy.

News Flash: Eric Flannum didn't leave Anet.

What key people did leave after GW2 release?

The only person I know of was Kekai Kotaki and he is an artist - I doubt anyone is complaining about the art style of the Living Story.

People need to stop mistaken the Live Team (which includes the Living Story) with all of the Anet man power.

The Living Story is a freebie that is self sustained by the cash shop and has no interference whatsoever with any other content development.

The reason you stopped seeing the key people you even though they left Anet is because they are working on stuff you don't know about.

And lets reduce the Living Story to zergs and ignore Tequatl, the Marionette, the TriWurm, The Bazaar of the four winds, etc.

Eric Flannum is no longer at Arenanet. Colin Johanson has filled his position.

Zerg fests are not the only problem with Living Story, just the most obvious middle finger given to the Manifesto and the original design principles.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Where-is-Eric-Flannum-1

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/eric-flannum/12/194/663

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eric_Flannum

Can't find any info about Eric leaving Anet, sorry.

And move on from the manifesto for God's sake. It's most likely just you misinterpreting what they said.

NDA and Non-compete clauses often mean top staff at a game studio that make an exit don't  resurface for a while after leaving. I just hope next we see of Eric, he'll be spearheading an MMO title that will do what GW2 was supposed to have done, or will do the game one better.

ANet have clearly abandoned the Manifesto, which explains your eagerness to do so as well, but the manifesto and other ideals the game was based on made the game, at launch, one of the best MMOs at release. Every step they've taken away from those ideals have diminished the game and it's once vast potential.

They were 80% there and the way forward was clear. Living Story has been ruinous to the accomplishment that was this game at launch, charting a course that has moved the game further and further from it's obvious potential. The genre has been replete with games that have failed during development and imploded because of a less than stellar launch product. I can't recall any other game that has ever launched such a superb product, only to systematically extend great effort to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. (It may be some what analogous to the SWG NGE fiasco, but SWG was no GW2).

The whole thing is very frustrating for genre vets like me who know how rare truly good MMOs are and how close GW2 had come to being the type of game many of us have been praying for for years, in my case for a decade and a half. The game, the Manifesto and it design ideals also pointed the way for a paradigm shift in MMO game design that would finally end the era of the WoW-based product. That "revolution" is now in question, not only because ANet have abandoned the cause and reverted back to failed design doctrine, but also because the failure of the game to fulfill it's financial potential will make others considering the risk of breaking away from the status quo even less likely to do so.

Just say you were wrong about Flannum. Those links say you're wrong and you have nothing but some made up NDA b.s. Unless you can come up with something better, stop saying he left.

There are things I like and don't like about the living story, but I don't think this means they abandoned the manifesto. I would go so far as to say the manifesto probably should be abandoned. It was a bit pompous and really they should just focus on making the best game they can. The manifesto takes itself and gaming way too seriously. And no disrespect intended but your post comes across as taking your own opinion too seriously. We have more good gaming choices now than ever before.

If people consider this game having failed its revenue potential, a game that made half again as much as EVE online did last year, then we have some problems in our revenue expectations not with game design and the ability to make money. But I suspect all that is just red herring fodder to throw on a fire of discontent.

The current event is nearly unique in what it is delivering. For one it breaks the idea that public quests are best accomplished zerg mode. That's not the obvious feature. The game has destroyed the major hub of the game and totally disrupted previous game play flow. This happens nearly never in this genre. We don't know if they'll rebuild it to its previous glory or what the future of the city entails. That alone should be commended. This is the sort of thing that mmo worlds never see. It's unfortunate that this isn't being looked at closer by the game journalists (and I use that very loosely), podcasters, and publications. Instead we see the same old pre-launch marketing spiels for the next two upcoming releases. That's truly sad.

He has left and if he can't discuss the departure and ANet is unwilling to announce it, not much I can do about it. If you had any clue about the business, you'd know this happens all the time.

If he were still with Arenanet, it should be very simple to show some "proof of life". There has not been a single word, interview, forum post, blog post, video since late 2012 containing Eric or even mention of Eric. The game director doesn't just vanish from public view like that. That Colin now has his job proves Eric is no longer Game Director for GW2.

 

 

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

  fiontar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3698

2/27/14 5:02:01 PM#60

It’s plain and simple yet another horribly designed event. I don’t know what else to say. Many of us offered detailed and polite critiques for months on end over the design of Living Story content and more than a year in we get another event like this that proves they just won’t listen and won’t learn.

At this point, critiques of individual elements of these events becomes pointless, because the issue isn’t one of fine tuning and refinement. The problems are systemic and if we try to get specific with flaws in the system while on the official forums, it can’t help to fall into the realm of the new “Arenanet Protection Protocols”.

I think we’ve all had experiences where we try to help someone with something they are having difficulty with, but they will just stubbornly ignore aid and advice and just continue to fall flat on their face. Either they will get sick and tired of falling on their faces, abandon their stubborn commitment to what just isn’t working and open up to other possibilities, or they will just dig a hole so deep they will never get out.

I think ANet needs to hit “rock bottom” before they will open up to the realization that this just is not working. Those that encourage them out of misplaced loyalty are just making things worse for everyone in the long run.

In the end, this event is just not fun. They’ve infused it with ample carrots and they have zergs of followers willing to work the content for those carrots, but this is just a sad indication of how badly the game has fallen. It was never supposed to be a game driven by carrots on the end of sticks. The rate at which they need to shovel out new carrots just to keep people playing should be an indication that something is just very, very wrong.

I played it. I care not for the carrots. It’s not fun. I could offer detailed criticism, but I know it’s pointless. When ANet doesn’t need me to tell them how horrible it is, then there might be some hope for the game, but not before then.

 

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

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