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General Discussion  » Can someone explain this lack of auction house system to me?

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268 posts found
  SoulTrapOnSelf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/17/13
Posts: 195

2/18/14 4:30:53 PM#121
I am wondering if Cyrodiil campaigns are gonna be persistent or if they will reset a la GW2. Either way it sux if the player joins a fail campaign.
  Fdzzaigl

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/09
Posts: 2267

2/18/14 4:38:13 PM#122

They will reset after a month or so, forgot how long exactly.

Edit: 3 months, as said below

Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  ElRenmazuo

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4562

2/18/14 4:58:35 PM#123
Originally posted by SoulTrapOnSelf
I am wondering if Cyrodiil campaigns are gonna be persistent or if they will reset a la GW2. Either way it sux if the player joins a fail campaign.

they reset every 3 months

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 988

2/18/14 6:24:04 PM#124
Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

There was NO trade to speak of during beta, none nada. Except for a few hardcore crafters trading hides for other mats in general chat.

I hear you coming: "But it was beta!" Well, no excuse. WoW, Rift, TOR, WAR, GW2... ALL of those games at least had a good semblance of an economy that you could see in formation during beta. ESO had jack shit.

Huh...?

I know you don't want me to say it but... dude, it was a beta weekend. Two days to test out the game is a very small window to gather data, especially when people know any money they make is about to be deleted. How many people do you think said, "Fuck it, I'll devote all my attention to testing the market instead of testing the other aspects of the game,"?

Frankly, that's a great reason.

I played a few weekends between TOR, WAR, and Rift, and I call B.S. on those as examples of good beta economies for the same reasons. Two days is a pitiful amount of time with which to judge an economy that close to no one is participating in. WoW/GW2 I had no experience with, so I'll have to submit to your experience, but if I recall WoW was a prolonged test.

So unless you were in the extended closed beta and speaking from that perspective, then I think you're just reaching for an excuse to nitpick.

  DeserttFoxx

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/11/04
Posts: 2399

Cry Havok; and let loose the dogs of war.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

 
OP  2/18/14 6:35:28 PM#125
Originally posted by dontadow
Originally posted by Shadanwolf

OP

I would conjecture:

 

This harkens back to old school crafting...where you build your reputation and business because of your skills and access to raw materials.

The crafters name is on every item they make..tending to reinforce the above.

Maybe that's why i don't like crafting in most modern MMOs. There was no real personality in it. I remember the old FF days and being upset that particular vendors were not where they were the day before as i knew who made the best armor for cheap and then they moved. 

This will add some specialness to crafting and force people to explore andset up shop in remote parts of the world.

The diference is i dont have to join a guild to sell my shit.

You have player stalls, and bazaars, why cant they just have markets that are independant to each major city in game? why do i need to join a bunch of zerg guilds, potentially guild hop all over the damn place just to find a good deal.

Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy

Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman

Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson

  3uchre

Novice Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 30

2/18/14 6:56:54 PM#126
Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

It's an incredibly stupid idea, that's what it is. One of the instances in which the devs of this game have closed off their eyes to any other *working* system that has proven itself and tried to put something in there while crossing fingers.

There was NO trade to speak of during beta, none nada. Except for a few hardcore crafters trading hides for other mats in general chat.

I hear you coming: "But it was beta!" Well, no excuse. WoW, Rift, TOR, WAR, GW2... ALL of those games at least had a good semblance of an economy that you could see in formation during beta. ESO had jack shit.

 

What this will lead to is zerg guilds becoming more and more popular as you can't trade anything decent outside them. Good luck trading between your small friends guild who can barely hold on to a castle, especially when one big sweep from another faction can flip half the map.

 

The best situation I could see coming out of this, is that everyone and their dog joins some massive big "trade alliance" guilds that are solely used for trading. Which is doable due to multiple guilds.

But guess what you've created then? A limited scale auction house.

 

It's a real shame that the devs have gone with this incredibly stupid idea. As managing bag space is very hard in this game and you find quite a lot of useful crafting items that others could benefit from, but you are left with no efficient way to trade them.

that limited scale " auction house ' is what it will be exactly, the important part is it will be spread out over  many different  campaign instances.

any guess as to how many campaign instances of Cyrodill there will be at launch?

l can't really imagine a global AH on a mega server.. 382 pages of jute bundles?

 

  Adamai

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/06/10
Posts: 480

2/18/14 7:16:35 PM#127
Its an mmo get used to it..
  goboygo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/13
Posts: 749

2/18/14 7:30:40 PM#128
Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

So i am going to have to join some big market oriented guild if i want to make any money. Or sit in town circa 2000 everquest 1 days and spam WTS ********* for hours on end?

 

Talk about 1 step forward 2 steps back. I dont like this idea of guilds run marketplaces and requiring control of pvp points to facilitate this.

 

I dont want to join a guild, i also dont want to be completely broke which is what it sounds like will happen if i  dont join a guild. 

You call it a step backward I call it a step back in the right direction.

  Reckloose

Novice Member

Joined: 6/10/13
Posts: 34

2/18/14 7:40:36 PM#129
Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

It's an incredibly stupid idea, that's what it is. One of the instances in which the devs of this game have closed off their eyes to any other *working* system that has proven itself and tried to put something in there while crossing fingers.

There was NO trade to speak of during beta, none nada. Except for a few hardcore crafters trading hides for other mats in general chat.

I hear you coming: "But it was beta!" Well, no excuse. WoW, Rift, TOR, WAR, GW2... ALL of those games at least had a good semblance of an economy that you could see in formation during beta. ESO had jack shit.

 

What this will lead to is zerg guilds becoming more and more popular as you can't trade anything decent outside them. Good luck trading between your small friends guild who can barely hold on to a castle, especially when one big sweep from another faction can flip half the map.

 

The best situation I could see coming out of this, is that everyone and their dog joins some massive big "trade alliance" guilds that are solely used for trading. Which is doable due to multiple guilds.

But guess what you've created then? A limited scale auction house.

 

It's a real shame that the devs have gone with this incredibly stupid idea. As managing bag space is very hard in this game and you find quite a lot of useful crafting items that others could benefit from, but you are left with no efficient way to trade them.

A couple of things:

First, every idea is essentially stupid until somebody tries it. And some of them really are stupid, others... not so stupid.

Then, while I wasn't in beta for War or GW2, I was in the WoW and ToR betas, so I am waving a BS flag on "they had 'good' economies". Not only was the AH system for WoW and ToR different from the current system, it was a giant joke. Nobody gave a flip, and there was no economy. Instead, it was random postings just to see what could be posted, see if anyone was actually buying. When everyone knows that nothing matters, nobody cares, and they act accordingly. And both WoW and ToR changed their AH's after release, since actual usage of AH in the live game was so drastically different than in beta.

In regards to ESO, I don't think anyone has done exactly what ESO is doing... actually pretty sure nobody has. So, once it goes live and people actually care about an economy, we'll see how it takes shape.

My opinion, is that they are essentially forgoing an "official AH", and instead just letting players figure it out (while giving a host of tools to do so). It *could* turn out to be very interesting. It seems like Zenimax is trying to go for a "player-constructed" economy. So, sure, players drive and are the only participants, but unlike other systems, in this one players construct the AH's, and all the things around them. Players could attempt to create cartels, and then create new cartels to undercut existing cartels. There could be the rise of Mega-AH-Guilds, and subsequently the fall of them, not to mention the entertaining player politics that go on when stuff like that happens.

This could also explode in everyone's face... but... nobody knows right now.

 

  User Deleted
2/18/14 7:56:05 PM#130
Originally posted by DeserttFoxx
Originally posted by dontadow
Originally posted by Shadanwolf

OP

I would conjecture:

 

This harkens back to old school crafting...where you build your reputation and business because of your skills and access to raw materials.

The crafters name is on every item they make..tending to reinforce the above.

Maybe that's why i don't like crafting in most modern MMOs. There was no real personality in it. I remember the old FF days and being upset that particular vendors were not where they were the day before as i knew who made the best armor for cheap and then they moved. 

This will add some specialness to crafting and force people to explore andset up shop in remote parts of the world.

The diference is i dont have to join a guild to sell my shit.

You have player stalls, and bazaars, why cant they just have markets that are independant to each major city in game? why do i need to join a bunch of zerg guilds, potentially guild hop all over the damn place just to find a good deal.

Um... even a small guild will have crafters of almost every type.  Unless you're a jerk and everyone hates you or their own guild then why sell to guildies at full price.  So you are saying you won't even join a couple of 15 man crafting guilds... or maybe start your own small crafting guild?  So if your guild doesn't give members a discount, then there is a problem.

  greenreen

Elite Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 2060

2/18/14 8:00:00 PM#131

According to one person they did try the global AH and didn't like what it did to prices.

I'm excited to see it all work but I'm not afraid of selling because of one thing that occurred to me in the last month... I played old school Runescape with no auctions AT ALL and survived. In fact, I sold things really fast and bought fast because everyone came to the towns who were looking to trade. If I don't find a super guild - oh woe is me I guess I'll just sell on the street like a dirty vagabond.

I like the idea too of limiting who can sell from the guild store because that means people will want to move up in rank and maybe just maybe names and reputation are going to mean something again in these games. I was in two guilds in the beta and I can tell you there is a checkbox there for who can sell as part of permissions, it's not defaulted to everyone.

I saw what GW2 did to the economy with their auction house, dropped the price of everything remotely common to vendor value, no thanks. Don't get me started on the food fiasco and the 1 copper prices across the board or the fact that there were no names on the auctions so you didn't know if they were deflating prices with a script or if players were really putting up auctions because there were no names. This game has names on crafted goods, that is accountability.

 

 

 

 

Here are the comments someone left about the first iteration of the game with ye olde standard auction house.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1126434-Megathread-Elder-Scrolls-Online-%28NDA-Lifted%29/page745

"ESO has had a internal working auction house system since late 2012 early 2013, if they want to put it in they can do it within a couple of hours. The removed it because they felt having a global auction house would not be beneficial for the game. In fact, during their early iterations of the build one of the icons on the UI took you straight to the AH tab like GW2."

"Please read my post above, they had a working AH in the game already. They removed it right around Mara beta."

"Usable and functional. You could place bids, out bid each other, put buy out orders etc. It worked a lot like the GW2 system. They were testing the economy pretty thoroughly in early 2013 (they were supposed to launch in 2013). The UI needed some work but other than that it worked great."

"Not according to the devs, they had tested the system and felt they could do something else. The devs said that having a global auction house led to everything in the game especially gear being really cheap to purchase."

"It worked pretty well, I would say it was pretty much like GW2's system at launch. It was pretty much complete and they scraped it. There are a lot of things in this game they scraped by the way, this isn't the only one."

"No the system was pretty much complete it had a cool icon and everything, they stress tested it several times."

 

 

 

Someone else put this in that thread too.

"You access the Guild Store via any Bank you have access to.

To further clarify, say you are in three guilds, one in each faction. You go to the bank, select Guild Store from the banker and then select which Guild's guild store you want to look at."

So that would be how you facilitate cross-faction trading and not have to enter PVP to access the store taking up a spot is my guess. So if you and a friend were in the same guild but their loyalty of faction wasn't your own, all of a sudden, you can make a style of gear they can't if they haven't learned your gear style yet wink wink.

Forum post: WTJ xfaction guild, have Argonian style

lol

 

Andddd you aren't out of luck if you just want to deal with your own folks and not be in PVP.

"ok so the store at a keep is only to allow non guild members to shop got it

Yes, if you're in the guild you can access the guild store even if your guild doesn't own a keep or have it set up in the PvP zone. There is always an inter-guild store. It's only to sell to people outside the guild, or buy from different guilds, that you need the PvP keep. So it will be advantageous to have at least one of your five guilds be a highly active trading guild."

 

 

Maybe every once in awhile game devs think about things and play this song... oops and they too aren't that innocent.

  User Deleted
2/18/14 8:02:40 PM#132
Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

It's an incredibly stupid idea, that's what it is. One of the instances in which the devs of this game have closed off their eyes to any other *working* system that has proven itself and tried to put something in there while crossing fingers.

There was NO trade to speak of during beta, none nada. Except for a few hardcore crafters trading hides for other mats in general chat.

I hear you coming: "But it was beta!" Well, no excuse. WoW, Rift, TOR, WAR, GW2... ALL of those games at least had a good semblance of an economy that you could see in formation during beta. ESO had jack shit.

 

What this will lead to is zerg guilds becoming more and more popular as you can't trade anything decent outside them. Good luck trading between your small friends guild who can barely hold on to a castle, especially when one big sweep from another faction can flip half the map.

 

The best situation I could see coming out of this, is that everyone and their dog joins some massive big "trade alliance" guilds that are solely used for trading. Which is doable due to multiple guilds.

But guess what you've created then? A limited scale auction house.

 

It's a real shame that the devs have gone with this incredibly stupid idea. As managing bag space is very hard in this game and you find quite a lot of useful crafting items that others could benefit from, but you are left with no efficient way to trade them.

Um... there was no selling because people were just giving things away... pft! I gave away 40 full soul gems A DAY.  Green/blue armor/weapons up the butt, stacks of food and beverages.  I was just running up to people and anyone who would accept the blind trade got free stuff.  When there was a WTS post in zone 40 people would jump all over that person and tell them to stop being a dick, we had 2 days and then a wipe, so either use it or give it away.

You should have seen what was said to the fool that posted a WTS in PVP zone in AD. Long story short, of course there was no economy everyone was throwing free stuff around like it was the end of the world and we were all CEOs that magically found religion.

 

Edit: Never ever post a WTS in PVP AD zone chat, unless you would like to hear creative things that people would do to your family in retribution.

  isanderSWG

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 37

2/18/14 8:21:11 PM#133
Originally posted by dontadow
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo

(edited out)

 

THank you, I find it wierd that few people understand that this best mimics the real world. Look at the car dealer industry. You can not just buy a mercedes at any new car dealership. YOu have to go to a specific dealership, hopefully there is one in your area. Look at Ikea, youcan't get ikea furniture anywhere, only at the few stores in america. 

With the Ferrari example, its the best example of how this works. Yes you can buy an ferrarri anywhere but you can only buy it from specific businesses. The only reason you're able to find these busineses is because of the advances in the internet, telecommunications and shipping. If this had been 50 years ago you were region locked to the type of cars that were available.

I am so sick of MMOS needing features. It's a genre. What other genre has specifications on what "NEEDS" to be there.  Even Platform games come in distinct varieties.

Not a good example, because how would you know a Ferrari even existed?  This system eliminates trade good knowledge.  How is information spread that a product is even available?  You'd have to travel to every vendor shop to see if they even sold your specific item.  And you wouldn't know if any of those shops were planning to stock those items an hour later.  You'd have to hit all those shops an hour later to see if the inventory changed. 

Unless they have some kind of bot spamming or advertising in trade forums, how do you know a particular keep even sells cars?

  isanderSWG

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 37

2/18/14 8:23:13 PM#134
Originally posted by Mithoronette

One thing to remember...when a guild holds a Castle/Keep, everybody who visits the Quartermaster of that keep has access to the guild's Store.  This hopefully allows some variety and competition not only within, but amongst guilds.  If a guild starts to be known for having fair and reasonable prices, people will visit their captured keeps more frequently and even hopefully defend that keep from being taken.  This is one area where I foresee a guild's reputation becoming quite important.

This aspect will hopefully prevent some of the "merchant guilds" from dominating the market...

Will guilds really compete this way or is it more likely that they'd collude to fix prices?

  lunatiquez

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/12
Posts: 394

2/19/14 3:06:00 AM#135
Originally posted by greenreen

I saw what GW2 did to the economy with their auction house, dropped the price of everything remotely common to vendor value, no thanks. Don't get me started on the food fiasco and the 1 copper prices across the board or the fact that there were no names on the auctions so you didn't know if they were deflating prices with a script or if players were really putting up auctions because there were no names. This game has names on crafted goods, that is accountability.

Indeed. There is NO purpose of crafting in GW2. Your wares price = accumulated mats price. Why bother gaining profit from crafting if you can sell the mats and get the same profit?

That's my gripe on global AH.

  DeserttFoxx

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/11/04
Posts: 2399

Cry Havok; and let loose the dogs of war.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

 
OP  2/19/14 3:16:24 AM#136
Originally posted by Pyatra
Originally posted by DeserttFoxx
Originally posted by dontadow
Originally posted by Shadanwolf

OP

I would conjecture:

 

This harkens back to old school crafting...where you build your reputation and business because of your skills and access to raw materials.

The crafters name is on every item they make..tending to reinforce the above.

Maybe that's why i don't like crafting in most modern MMOs. There was no real personality in it. I remember the old FF days and being upset that particular vendors were not where they were the day before as i knew who made the best armor for cheap and then they moved. 

This will add some specialness to crafting and force people to explore andset up shop in remote parts of the world.

The diference is i dont have to join a guild to sell my shit.

You have player stalls, and bazaars, why cant they just have markets that are independant to each major city in game? why do i need to join a bunch of zerg guilds, potentially guild hop all over the damn place just to find a good deal.

Um... even a small guild will have crafters of almost every type.  Unless you're a jerk and everyone hates you or their own guild then why sell to guildies at full price.  So you are saying you won't even join a couple of 15 man crafting guilds... or maybe start your own small crafting guild?  So if your guild doesn't give members a discount, then there is a problem.

So i am going to craft, then ONLY sell to guildies? I dont understand how this promotes a global economy.

 

I cant fathom how people think this is a good idea, why is it better to join a bunch of trading guilds instead of having market places in each major city that only sell items in that city. That way i can sell my items whether or not i have a social network.

 

Ive never need a crafting network before, but suddenly i need to create a blacksmith only guild then hope all those crafters are fucking pvpers too so they can have a prime selling locations/

 

Explain to me how much those crafting guilds plan on pvping in cyridil in order to capture and maintain forts so they can sell, you know how all those hardcore crafters love to pvp in order to sell their wares.

 

People like to defend the dumbest shit. This idea is a terrible idea, tying the economy to guilds is as stupid as tying end game dungeons to guilds. Maybe thats the next step, you can only do end game dungeons if you have a guild because there is no global shout channel.

 

Progress right?

Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy

Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman

Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson

  jircris

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/03/07
Posts: 406

2/19/14 3:21:13 AM#137
i fail to see why people complain about such things. the game is not out yet and i have seen other games add AH a week or two before release. who knows what will stay and what will go by launch.

free 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs. http://www.swtor.com/r/S6kR3P

  Fusion

Old School

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 1411

2/19/14 3:27:48 AM#138
Originally posted by iseldiera
Originally posted by rygard49

It's a good thing. You'll get name recognition if you're a quality crafter with the recipes people want. In early DAoC, everyone knew the legendary crafters, and seeing them out in the world was almost like seeing a celebrity.

You are speaking to a generation that does dailies, pvp, raids all without having to leave Orgrimmar for the entire duration of the time they are logged on. They will never understand the feeling you are describing :(

The final nail on the coffin!

Couldnt've said it any better myself.

 

Also, global AH's are notorious for ruining game economies (don't think i can recall a single  AH game, where the economy isnt horseshit, due to it.) and it de-socializes the the entire trading / crafting part of the game.

Currently playing: -

Waiting for: Class4.

Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  Gdemami

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 8004

2/19/14 3:27:51 AM#139


Originally posted by inemosz

Indeed. There is NO purpose of crafting in GW2. Your wares price = accumulated mats price. Why bother gaining profit from crafting if you can sell the mats and get the same profit?

That's my gripe on global AH.


That has nothing to do with global AH but your ability to craft everything thus only materials have any value.

Global AH is way to go as it promotes market competition, allows establishing price levels and suppoorts trading.

  Abndn

Novice Member

Joined: 4/04/12
Posts: 55

2/19/14 3:34:41 AM#140
God forbid you'd have to interact with other human beings to trade in an MMORPG.
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