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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Can someone explain this lack of auction house system to me?

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268 posts found
  udon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1795

2/18/14 9:29:34 AM#81
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo

This is why they dont want to put a global auction house.

"You don't necessarily want to do a global auction house for a game with one giant server because that generally leads to all the best gear being available at very, very cheap prices. A lot of times that can trivialize the game. You cannot have a healthy economy when there are no restrictions on getting the best stuff in the game."

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/10/18/tamriel-infinium-selling-your-wares-in-the-elder-scrolls-online/

This is a bullshit reason. The price of an item in a MMORPG as well as in the real world is based on three things:

- The rarity of the materials required to craft it.

- The skill of the crafter(s) who make it.

- The value customers put in it, aka the desire to purchase it.

There's no lack of Ferrari vendors in the world. If you want one, the cars are not hidden behind some weird, tedious mechanics, you go to the vendor, you give him a ton of money, and you drive away with your car.

It cost a lot because only that one company owns the name and can sell it for how much they want and no one else can lawfully sell it.  In mmos no one owns the rights to any of the items.

You are wrong. In badly designed MMOs, it's like that. In well designed MMOs, master crafters who produce the highest quality items (just like Ferrari, or Rolls Royce, you got the idea) are highly valued.

In ESO, they put the difficulty and tedium in the wrong place. It's creating the items which should be hard, not selling them, and not finding a vendor selling them.

That's a "DOSE of real world", for the guy I already answered to in my previous post.

Just because a crafter can make a high quality item doesnt mean he owns the rights to that item, someone else who makes the same item just good or better can sell it for lower if he chose to and the next guy who does the same can sell the same item for even lower.  You forget that this is a mega server which means there will be a lot more of these crafters than mmos with multiple smaller servers.  Which goes back to that quote I put up.  That item will become cheap even at its highest quality possible in the game because of the amount of crafters making them in this one mega server.

And how does that stop the developer from balancing the availability of the best crafting materials, and the difficulty to get them, according to what you just said?

Are you suggesting the availability for certain materials be like 1%-5% drop rate?  Than that would mean it would be tedious for the crafters and would make crafting boring compared to other play styles.  They want to make crafting just as fun as raiding or PvPing.  Basically balance in fun factor all around.

That would actually mean more trading. Trading for the rarest materials. Making the best items really rare, too.

And the rarity isn't the only factor, the difficulty to get them is also one (aka having to beat very hard encounters/dungeons to get the materials).

The lack of auction house making crafting more valuable is nonsense. It actually makes crafting less rewarding, because the crafter has to double as a vendor spending much time in trade chat, or forced to join one of the big guilds. I actually can't understand how any MMORPG player with a little experience can think such a system is good for anyone.

What the lack of a auction house does so is removes some of the commoditization of crafted goods and allows smart crafters to really specialize in a specific market (I.E. alliance or trade guild) a lot more.  I'm not really sure how any MMO player with a little experience can't see that.

This whole system working is going to depend on other things also working in the background.  Guilds need to work well with strong communication tools and have high membership caps, there needs to be ways for talented crafters to distinguish themselves from the rest, PVPer's need to value crafters and the goods they provide, and players need to be willing to venture outside their little global AH box they have been happily playing in for so many years.  

  ElRenmazuo

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4451

2/18/14 9:46:33 AM#82
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo

There is a reason why they let people join up to 5 player guilds, so that people can have 1 or 2 guild be like a dedicated "auction house" just for trade.

That's going to forge such an amazing community... you know, all working for a common goal, tightly knit together...

Err wait...

It worked in Final Fantasy 11...I had my main social guild with my in game friends and together with other guilds we created a guild specifically for raiding dynamis runs and assigned a leader for those runs. People from  several different guilds and people from my guild would switch to it once per week when it was time to do the run and every individual would put up a little money since it costed 1 large fee to enter the raid as a 50 man raid group.  And it was a great community, a lot of people including me made many more in game friends this way.  People knew each other even if they didnt share the same main guild.

  TheLizardbones

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10959

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

2/18/14 9:48:30 AM#83
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo

There is a reason why they let people join up to 5 player guilds, so that people can have 1 or 2 guild be like a dedicated "auction house" just for trade.

That's going to forge such an amazing community... you know, all working for a common goal, tightly knit together...

Err wait...

 

Limiting people to a single guild forged such an amazing community in other games, all working for a common goal, all tightly knit together...

 

Err wait...

 

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 3397

There... are... four... lights!

2/18/14 9:53:29 AM#84
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo

There is a reason why they let people join up to 5 player guilds, so that people can have 1 or 2 guild be like a dedicated "auction house" just for trade.

That's going to forge such an amazing community... you know, all working for a common goal, tightly knit together...

Err wait...

 

Limiting people to a single guild forged such an amazing community in other games, all working for a common goal, all tightly knit together...

Err wait...

It's not that part I was referring to. It's the part which forces people to join specific guilds to efficiently trade.

And yeah, being in a single guild makes the community of that guild better... instead of having people switching guild whenever they feel like. It's one of the things I wish GW2 never introduced to the genre.

Originally posted by ElRenmazuo

It worked in Final Fantasy 11...I had my main social guild with my in game friends and together with other guilds we created a guild specifically for raiding dynamis runs and assigned a leader for those runs. People from  several different guilds and people from my guild would switch to it once per week when it was time to do the run and every individual would put up a little money since it costed 1 large fee to enter the raid as a 50 man raid group.  And it was a great community, a lot of people including me made many more in game friends this way.  People knew each other even if they didnt share the same main guild.

FF11 = 2002.

Today = 2014.

As I said in a previous post...

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
It's exactly the kind of lame "features" (or rather, lack of) that some specific people here will praise. By specific people, I mean all those "you younglings have it easy, back in my time we went to school up hill in the blizzard with freezing temperature by foot with only a loincloth". Aka people who try to look tough in a video game by praising boring and tedious mechanics.

 

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

----------------

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  TheLizardbones

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10959

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

2/18/14 9:59:46 AM#85
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo

There is a reason why they let people join up to 5 player guilds, so that people can have 1 or 2 guild be like a dedicated "auction house" just for trade.

That's going to forge such an amazing community... you know, all working for a common goal, tightly knit together...

Err wait...

 

Limiting people to a single guild forged such an amazing community in other games, all working for a common goal, all tightly knit together...

Err wait...

It's not that part I was referring to. It's the part which forces people to join specific guilds to efficiently trade.

 

Originally posted by ElRenmazuo

It worked in Final Fantasy 11...I had my main social guild with my in game friends and together with other guilds we created a guild specifically for raiding dynamis runs and assigned a leader for those runs. People from  several different guilds and people from my guild would switch to it once per week when it was time to do the run and every individual would put up a little money since it costed 1 large fee to enter the raid as a 50 man raid group.  And it was a great community, a lot of people including me made many more in game friends this way.  People knew each other even if they didnt share the same main guild.

FF11 = 2002.

Today = 2014.

As I said in a previous post...

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
It's exactly the kind of lame "features" (or rather, lack of) that some specific people here will praise. By specific people, I mean all those "you younglings have it easy, back in my time we went to school up hill in the blizzard with freezing temperature by foot with only a loincloth". Aka people who try to look tough in a video game by praising boring and tedious mechanics.

 

 

Multiple guilds seems to be more of a response to the behavior that people exhibit on social media sites since AOL was a thing.  People join, follow or favorite many groups, not just one.  It's about time that an MMORPG caught up on this.

 

I don't think the developers are allowing multiple guilds for people to trade.  Who is going to run the most successful trading guilds?  Gold sellers?  I don't know.  I don't think there's a good connection there.  Not saying it won't happen though.  People will institute some sort of auction house functionality either inside or outside of the game.  Maybe even a mobile app.  Hmmm.  I need to go brush up on my Java.

 

**

 

After reading about the feature a bit, it sounds like they have multiple guilds so that people can join a trade guild, and then another guild that does something else.  At the same time, it's also tied to keeps in Cyrodil, so those guilds will have to either be friendly with strong PvP guilds, or will need to be a strong PvP guild themselves.

 

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3315

2/18/14 10:01:40 AM#86
I don't really care about the PvP, dungeons, raiding, or any of that mainstream stuff.  The thing that has me excited most about this game is the crafting and that there isn't a global auction house.  I had a blast in DAoC crafting things for my guildmates and MIdgard Brothers and Sisters.  I was actually known and people would come to me to get the best crafted weapons and armor on the realm :)  I spent most of my day crafting arrows, but I would get a request for some great project at least once a week :D  (I wish bow had to use arrows though!)
  Kaneth

Elite Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1851

2/18/14 10:14:29 AM#87
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo

There is a reason why they let people join up to 5 player guilds, so that people can have 1 or 2 guild be like a dedicated "auction house" just for trade.

That's going to forge such an amazing community... you know, all working for a common goal, tightly knit together...

Err wait...

 

Limiting people to a single guild forged such an amazing community in other games, all working for a common goal, all tightly knit together...

Err wait...

It's not that part I was referring to. It's the part which forces people to join specific guilds to efficiently trade.

And yeah, being in a single guild makes the community of that guild better... instead of having people switching guild whenever they feel like. It's one of the things I wish GW2 never introduced to the genre.

Except that guilds can also have their own rules for membership. I am part of a multigaming guild in GW2 and one of our rules is that you must be representing our guild if you are a member. We have a very good community and it's worked well for us. Individual communities are responsible for their own health, regardless of the systems in a game.

Originally posted by ElRenmazuo

It worked in Final Fantasy 11...I had my main social guild with my in game friends and together with other guilds we created a guild specifically for raiding dynamis runs and assigned a leader for those runs. People from  several different guilds and people from my guild would switch to it once per week when it was time to do the run and every individual would put up a little money since it costed 1 large fee to enter the raid as a 50 man raid group.  And it was a great community, a lot of people including me made many more in game friends this way.  People knew each other even if they didnt share the same main guild.

FF11 = 2002.

Today = 2014.

As I said in a previous post...

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
It's exactly the kind of lame "features" (or rather, lack of) that some specific people here will praise. By specific people, I mean all those "you younglings have it easy, back in my time we went to school up hill in the blizzard with freezing temperature by foot with only a loincloth". Aka people who try to look tough in a video game by praising boring and tedious mechanics.

 

I'm not here defending a mechanic, but a lack of central AH can work in a mmo. I do agree that it does over complicate things. I can see the formation of crafting guilds where different crafters from different guilds come together to trade, chat, help each other out. This happens even in games with Auction Houses (there was a crafting/trading guild on my WoW server). It can make the game more interesting for those involved, but at the same time, not everyone is going to have access to something like that.

The lack of an auction house fits into the traditional lore of an ES game, but the AH mechanic could be replaced with Khajit traveling merchants, which then act as an auction house.

  ElRenmazuo

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4451

2/18/14 10:36:17 AM#88
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yX_1gJ_51M&hd=1

  dontadow

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 1049

2/18/14 10:37:50 AM#89
Originally posted by rygard49

Seems to me that they're putting some social interaction back into the trading process. Either you join a guild, or you hawk your wares over general, make deals in whispers, meet other characters face to face.

It's a good thing. You'll get name recognition if you're a quality crafter with the recipes people want. In early DAoC, everyone knew the legendary crafters, and seeing them out in the world was almost like seeing a celebrity.

This sounds kinda cool, had no idea this would be how it works. I was just saying how i used to miss final fantasy's 4 auction houses only system that werne't linked to each other. It was interesting seeing what something costs in one region compared to another region, made for realistic commerce.

  -aLpHa-

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/03
Posts: 865

2/18/14 11:09:26 AM#90

My guess would be that they will add a AH after release, when the playerbase is very vocal about it.

They will also add a Dungeon tool, you know like they did in GW2 even if the devs didn't want to initially.

We actually just need to wait and see what happens, *grabs a cup of coffee*.

I think the idea of having almost no BOP items is a bad one (Gold sellers will have a field day), just like not having a AH but that's just my 2 cents.

  Shadanwolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 2107

2/18/14 11:19:12 AM#91

OP

I would conjecture:

 

This harkens back to old school crafting...where you build your reputation and business because of your skills and access to raw materials.

The crafters name is on every item they make..tending to reinforce the above.

  Ghern

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/12
Posts: 135

2/18/14 11:25:41 AM#92
Originally posted by -aLpHa-

I think the idea of having almost no BOP items is a bad one (Gold sellers will have a field day), just like not having a AH but that's just my 2 cents.

I believe this is the reason there is no AH. Goldsellers can easily put stuff up for sale in them but how many will truly spend a lot of time in-game to push their wares?

This system really intrigues me. I have never played an MMO without an AH. It actually has me leaning towards purchase just to check it out.

  TheLizardbones

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10959

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

2/18/14 11:30:48 AM#93
Originally posted by Ghern
Originally posted by -aLpHa-

I think the idea of having almost no BOP items is a bad one (Gold sellers will have a field day), just like not having a AH but that's just my 2 cents.

I believe this is the reason there is no AH. Goldsellers can easily put stuff up for sale in them but how many will truly spend a lot of time in-game to push their wares?

This system really intrigues me. I have never played an MMO without an AH. It actually has me leaning towards purchase just to check it out.

 

Given that they are willing to have people work a game for 16 hours a day, the level of effort required to sell their stuff is not going to be a disincentive to gold farmers if they can make money on the game.  The return per hour is all that matters and if the level of effort is much higher, then they can probably raise prices to compensate.

 

I don't think this is an effort to get rid of gold farmers.  Maybe they are just seeing what happens if you take an Elder Scrolls game and just add as little MMO content as possible.  Or, they have plans to add one later.

 

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Ghern

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/12
Posts: 135

2/18/14 11:35:38 AM#94
Since when does an AH fall under the definition of content?
  -aLpHa-

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/03
Posts: 865

2/18/14 11:38:48 AM#95


Originally posted by Ghern

Originally posted by -aLpHa- I think the idea of having almost no BOP items is a bad one (Gold sellers will have a field day), just like not having a AH but that's just my 2 cents.
I believe this is the reason there is no AH. Goldsellers can easily put stuff up for sale in them but how many will truly spend a lot of time in-game to push their wares?

This system really intrigues me. I have never played an MMO without an AH. It actually has me leaning towards purchase just to check it out.


Uhm, you know most of them either employ people that play the game and farm or they buy gold/items cheap from normal players.

This will not hold back any Gold seller, i am pretty sure it will have a advert effect.
Gold will be worth allot more which in turn makes more profit for dubious people.

Selling the best BOE items for $ won't be bad deal either.

I remember the first time i encountered RMT, that was back in 2000 in a game called Diablo 2, gold was absolutely worthless, so RMT where doing the next best thing, selling Items, especially SOJ where thought after because they replaced the gold as a currency system.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 3571

2/18/14 11:57:16 AM#96
Originally posted by -aLpHa-

 


Originally posted by Ghern

Originally posted by -aLpHa- I think the idea of having almost no BOP items is a bad one (Gold sellers will have a field day), just like not having a AH but that's just my 2 cents.
I believe this is the reason there is no AH. Goldsellers can easily put stuff up for sale in them but how many will truly spend a lot of time in-game to push their wares?

 

This system really intrigues me. I have never played an MMO without an AH. It actually has me leaning towards purchase just to check it out.


 

Uhm, you know most of them either employ people that play the game and farm or they buy gold/items cheap from normal players.

This will not hold back any Gold seller, i am pretty sure it will have a advert effect.
Gold will be worth allot more which in turn makes more profit for dubious people.

Selling the best BOE items for $ won't be bad deal either.

I remember the first time i encountered RMT, that was back in 2000 in a game called Diablo 2, gold was absolutely worthless, so RMT where doing the next best thing, selling Items, especially SOJ where thought after because they replaced the gold as a currency system.

After enduring the launch of FFXIV:ARR, I'm kind of dreading the ESO launch.

 

ESO is much more high-profile than FFXIV, so it's going to be absolutely overrun with goldsellers unless ZOS make a serious effort to combat it. The goldsellers are also going to be making a huge effort to steal player accounts, because it's a sub game, and they'll need plenty of spare accounts to replace those that will inevitably be banned.

 

I also expect the resource nodes and random chests to be hit hard, and that thought really depresses me as a crafter...

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 988

2/18/14 12:26:59 PM#97
Originally posted by SpottyGekko
Originally posted by -aLpHa-

Uhm, you know most of them either employ people that play the game and farm or they buy gold/items cheap from normal players.

This will not hold back any Gold seller, i am pretty sure it will have a advert effect.
Gold will be worth allot more which in turn makes more profit for dubious people.

Selling the best BOE items for $ won't be bad deal either.

I remember the first time i encountered RMT, that was back in 2000 in a game called Diablo 2, gold was absolutely worthless, so RMT where doing the next best thing, selling Items, especially SOJ where thought after because they replaced the gold as a currency system.

After enduring the launch of FFXIV:ARR, I'm kind of dreading the ESO launch.

ESO is much more high-profile than FFXIV, so it's going to be absolutely overrun with goldsellers unless ZOS make a serious effort to combat it. The goldsellers are also going to be making a huge effort to steal player accounts, because it's a sub game, and they'll need plenty of spare accounts to replace those that will inevitably be banned.

I also expect the resource nodes and random chests to be hit hard, and that thought really depresses me as a crafter...

I wouldn't worry too much about the nodes and chests. They seemed to be pretty prevalent, even in the very populated newbie islands, and the respawn was fairly quick.

Simply put, gold farmers are always an issue for these games. I haven't seen firsthand any system that significantly reduces their numbers. If there's profit to be had through illicit trading, these guys will find a way.

The only true power capable of stopping them? Us, not buying their shit. As soon as that happens, we'll have cured the problem forever.

  Torval

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6798

2/18/14 12:31:16 PM#98
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Its not lacking, its a feature..

 

You can not have an auctionhouse on a megaserver and still have a healthy econnomy.  GW2s econnomy is proof of that..

GW2, Neverwinter, STO, EQ2, and TOR all have centralized AH with working economies. How is the GW2 economy not healthy?

----------------------------------

It's funny that a $15/month sub-locked game removes a core mmo system and calls it a feature! Hey everyone we'll charge you $200+ per year NOT to put key mmo features in the game.

Some of you talking for the oldschool crowd need to speak for yourself. I remember what it was like without this, all the hours and time it took to make good money and how bad it sucked. Oh look, a subscription game with a hidden time sink. Wonder why they really put that in there?

No one has as many friends as a man with many cheeses!

  Torval

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6798

2/18/14 12:36:37 PM#99
Originally posted by -aLpHa-

 


Originally posted by Ghern

Originally posted by -aLpHa- I think the idea of having almost no BOP items is a bad one (Gold sellers will have a field day), just like not having a AH but that's just my 2 cents.
I believe this is the reason there is no AH. Goldsellers can easily put stuff up for sale in them but how many will truly spend a lot of time in-game to push their wares?

 

This system really intrigues me. I have never played an MMO without an AH. It actually has me leaning towards purchase just to check it out.


 

Uhm, you know most of them either employ people that play the game and farm or they buy gold/items cheap from normal players.

This will not hold back any Gold seller, i am pretty sure it will have a advert effect.
Gold will be worth allot more which in turn makes more profit for dubious people.

Selling the best BOE items for $ won't be bad deal either.

I remember the first time i encountered RMT, that was back in 2000 in a game called Diablo 2, gold was absolutely worthless, so RMT where doing the next best thing, selling Items, especially SOJ where thought after because they replaced the gold as a currency system.

This is absolutely true. If a player can make gold, then a gold farmer will make more. On top of that people will setup AH sites or sell on ebay. The global AH will just be moved off of the game.

Either the people parroting how cool oldschool was weren't there or they were part of the mega-guilds controlling the trade and resources.

We'll see how it ends up. I'm most certain this will be a popcorn topic.

No one has as many friends as a man with many cheeses!

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 18262

2/18/14 1:01:08 PM#100
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo

This is why they dont want to put a global auction house.

"You don't necessarily want to do a global auction house for a game with one giant server because that generally leads to all the best gear being available at very, very cheap prices. A lot of times that can trivialize the game. You cannot have a healthy economy when there are no restrictions on getting the best stuff in the game."

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/10/18/tamriel-infinium-selling-your-wares-in-the-elder-scrolls-online/

This is a bullshit reason. The price of an item in a MMORPG as well as in the real world is based on three things:

- The rarity of the materials required to craft it.

- The skill of the crafter(s) who make it.

- The value customers put in it, aka the desire to purchase it.

There's no lack of Ferrari vendors in the world. If you want one, the cars are not hidden behind some weird, tedious mechanics, you go to the vendor, you give him a ton of money, and you drive away with your car.

That's not entirely true.

What they are referring to is having a LOT of vendors selling these items which will eventually drive the prices down. For stores that sell luxury items, they are usually one of a few in an area because having every tom dick or harry store selling a fararri will eventually drive the prices down as they compete with each other.

Also, rarity of materials makes sense but "skill of the crafters" depends upon how the game handles "skill". If it is just a skill level then almost anyone can get to that level and you could have thousands of "elite" crafters all crafting the same thing. If "skill" means that the chance to fail on making an item is less the higher you are then that could possibly affect the price. That is what it was like in Lineage 2 where there was a chance to fail on making an item and losing all your mats. Obviously you wanted to go to high level crafters. Or, if skill is based upon "actual skill"; essentially the actual ability of the player to create these items then that makes sense as well.

Additionally, the rarity of items seemed a bit skewed in ESO as anyone could buy a daedra heart. Buying iron ingots? nope, you had to go out and craft those yourself.

So the corner blacksmith had daedra hearts and obsidion and plenty of other seemingly "rare" mats but iron? Nope, that was somethign you had to search for.

 

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