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General Discussion  » The animations thread....

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43 posts found
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3883

2/17/14 9:48:00 AM#21
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Bad in comparison to what mmorpg?

Almost all other mainstream ones released past 2004 except maybe LOTRO, Warhammer and Rift which also have awful animations?

Which western-style non-cartoony mainstream MMOs other than LOTRO, RIFT and Warhammer are we talking about here?

 

I'm not saying that ESO animations are perfect, they're not, but I for one hate the over-the-top eastern-style animations and FX that are part of Tera, FF, GW2, etc.

 

 

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

2/17/14 9:55:50 AM#22

Jumping is my only gripe about animations so far. Everything else I either haven't noticed, or can ignore, but jumping in this game is so bad. I feel like my character is jumping on the moon, but then hits a ceiling before reaching the logical apex, and just kind of floats there for half a second before gravity asserts itself again.

To say that you'd be likely to uninstall a game over an animation, though, is... kind of silly.

  Denambren

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/08
Posts: 313

2/17/14 9:58:54 AM#23

The big animation issue is that ESO is not using motion capture on their model animations. I made a post on this a few months ago when the first gameplay videos were released:

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/401345/page/1

 

Skyrim was the first Elder Scrolls game to incorporate motion capture, and as a result it looked fantastic alongside all the other great graphical improvements. Now we have Zenimax going backwards in technology and dropping the motion capture element that is a standard for today's games.

 

Star Wars Galaxies used motion capture back in 2003, and as a result the animations are far superior to ESO, despite SWG being over 10 years behind in graphic technology.  If you look at the motion capture for Age of Conan from over 5 years ago, it also has superior animation. If you even want to go back to the cancelled development of Ultima Online 2, you can see the motion capture technology they were using in 1999 in this gameplay video, and it is also far, far superior to ESO:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWumht6AuZo

 

ESO initially looked to me like a quick project whipped together to make an early release for the next-gen Consoles as a cash grab. I wasn't sure if this was really the case until getting into beta, at which point my experience confirmed that ESO had cut corners wherever it could to make it to the finish line in time. Character animations were one of the many cuts, unfortunately.

  Squeak69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 972

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

2/17/14 10:15:47 AM#24
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Bad in comparison to what mmorpg?

Almost all other mainstream ones released past 2004 except maybe LOTRO, Warhammer and Rift which also have awful animations?

Which western-style non-cartoony mainstream MMOs other than LOTRO, RIFT and Warhammer are we talking about here?

 

I'm not saying that ESO animations are perfect, they're not, but I for one hate the over-the-top eastern-style animations and FX that are part of Tera, FF, GW2, etc.

 

 

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8630

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

2/17/14 10:17:55 AM#25
Originally posted by jidakra
Originally posted by arobi

Folks we need to discuss this. The animations are bad really bad. I haven't seen animations this bad since combat in The Secret World. TSW is probably worse but ESO animations are bad. The way our characters move is clunky everything they do seems clunky, jumping omg don't get me started on jumping that alone almost made me uninstall. Also when I stand on an uneven surface I want my character to look like there adjusting there balance is that so hard in 2014?

For newer mmos gw2 has much better animations then this. IDK why this is such a deal breaker for me but it is which is sad cause after the noob islands it seemed to open and I like to explore another thing that this game seems to do well. I just cant play looking like a stick is up ass all day its that bad and dodging don't get me started.

Im sure there are others out there who don't like the animations as ive read a couple minor gripes with them. What do you all think and is it possible that they will still improve the animations before or reasonably after launch?

Actually, I think they chose to make the animations like this for the sake of PvP. Flowing animations like in GW2 make fastpaced movements like those people make in PvP look extremely awkward and unresponsive. Animations that just abruptly stop and respond instantly to what you are doing look weird when you PvE, but feel better when PvPing.

At least thats what I am "feeling" when I play ESO in comparison to a game with great animations like GW2.

 

There is no excuse for the way characters run though, that looks just awful.

Its allways a trade off

 

Me myself being a person that requires annimations of a certain level... (i quit Vanguard just for their cluncky annimations) ... dont think the annimations are actually that bad... they look very much like earlier Elder scrolls games which have also this type of near realistic annimations, and i was able to accept them as beiing non disturbing when playing the game myself...

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  ezystreet

Novice Member

Joined: 12/25/07
Posts: 21

2/17/14 10:20:35 AM#26

Look I would rather have bad/ no animations even for a good, smooth combat system and massive PvP battles.

 

  Beastn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/04/11
Posts: 116

2/17/14 10:22:27 AM#27
Maybe I'm crazy but not once during my game play overa couple of beta weekends did I think "man these animations suck"....not once did anything negative about them crossed my mind....but on the other hand I liked rift and I know that was a complaint about that game that I never shared either...
  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1441

2/17/14 10:25:04 AM#28

Every single MMO that is release has people jumping off bridges over "animations".  It drives me nuts.  Of all the things to bitch about in a game "animations" are at the bottom of my list.  What games are these people playing that has amazing animations.  I don't see a huge difference between MMO's.  Maybe single player games (which I don't play) have amazing animations...I don't know.  To me these people are the same as the cosmetics mean more than the game mechanics/features.  I even understand cosmetics to an extent, but I just don't get the constant uproar over animations in EVERY single MMO that is released.

 

I need these animations complainers to make me a list of top notch animation MMO's.  I need to find out where these people are coming from because I just don't see it as a huge problem in almost any game I play.

  Squeak69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 972

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

2/17/14 10:26:14 AM#29
Originally posted by Beastn
Maybe I'm crazy but not once during my game play overa couple of beta weekends did I think "man these animations suck"....not once did anything negative about them crossed my mind....but on the other hand I liked rift and I know that was a complaint about that game that I never shared either...

i dont really have issues with the animation aside from the bow, and normally i wouldnt even there exept im spoiled by the prevois TES games and i jsut dont know why the grapics where degraded from that, yes i know its a MMO not a single player and i understand that ome stuff is lost in trasitional but animations?

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  greenreen

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1458

2/17/14 10:26:19 AM#30

I'm no animation purist but for me

* when the character goes into sneak, it crouches

* when the character is using a map or a bag, the animation starts for them using those items

* when running the butt cheeks are swishing

* when blocking the character puts up the weapon in a literal block

This is pretty much all I need without going on and on. I know what the character is doing and sometimes even my neighbors. Why don't I get this animation nitpicking. What is gained from the animations for the people who have some laws or rules about them. Do you make a lot of videos in Machinima style so you are using the animations like a movie maker and these are your actors. Clue me in as to why it's important and which games did it right with video because I'm not noting the intricacies but I do consider myself detail oriented.

  Ender4

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2096

2/17/14 10:28:04 AM#31

The animations do play into how the combat feel, it is all connected.

WAR, RIFT, SWTOR, TSW all were painful just to play the basic game because they did not get the movement and animations correct. Black Desert looks like it going to join this list which is why i can't be interested in that game.

Games like WoW, GW2 and it looks like the new EQ really do this well.

There is a big middle ground and to me ESO probably falls in the middle ground. It isn't unplayable like say Rift was but it still feels a bit wrong.

What bothers me more is the poor AI that the mobs use making it so easy to dance around them and not take much damage.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2835

There... are... four... lights!

2/17/14 10:42:04 AM#32
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Bad in comparison to what mmorpg?

Almost all other mainstream ones released past 2004 except maybe LOTRO, Warhammer and Rift which also have awful animations?

Which western-style non-cartoony mainstream MMOs other than LOTRO, RIFT and Warhammer are we talking about here?

WoW, Conan, GW2, SW:TOR (yes, it has better ANIMATIONS than ESO, not as good as WoW or GW2, but at least they CONNECT with the enemy), CoH/CoV, Neverwinter, EQ2... shall I continue?

 

I'm not saying that ESO animations are perfect, they're not, but I for one hate the over-the-top eastern-style animations and FX that are part of Tera, FF, GW2, etc.

GW2 doesn't have "over the top" Asian animations. Don't let your hatred of that game blind you. Would you have said that about Tera, I'd have agreed, but GW2 is definitely western style animation wise.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  inemosz

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/12
Posts: 382

2/17/14 10:45:28 AM#33
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by inemosz
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Bad in comparison to what mmorpg?

Most newer mmorpg?

Ok let's be fair, let's compare it with a 5-year-old mmorpg Blade & Soul. Can you see the difference?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8g-pgHQ8dM

Let's not talk about "pvp reason". MMOs like Black Desert & Bless are also going to have massive siege war.

Lol. I didn't even have to click to know that I was about to see some over-the-top Asian-style animation complete with oversized monsters that get thrown into the air as a result of a blow and crazy special effects.

 

Some of us actually hate that shit, man.

 

As to Black Desert and Bless...yeah, great looking models and all but we're a long way before them showing us that they can in fact have the large battles they claim to be able to have with their high poly count models.... we shall see.

Well yes of course, people have their own preferences. That's why there are people who prefer superhero or sci-fi movies for the special effects and people who love historical movies or such for the realism.

I for one don't really choose, only the smoothness of animations is what really matters. As long as the movement fit the theme, I'm in. Smoothness.

  Alders

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1732

I cannot fiddle but I can make a great state of a small city.

2/17/14 10:48:10 AM#34
Originally posted by inemosz
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Bad in comparison to what mmorpg?

Most newer mmorpg?

Ok let's be fair, let's compare it with a 5-year-old mmorpg Blade & Soul. Can you see the difference?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8g-pgHQ8dM

Let's not talk about "pvp reason". MMOs like Black Desert & Bless are also going to have massive siege war.

 

B&S has by far the best combat and animations of all the "action" MMO's on the market.  Not only do you feel the impact of attacks, they're also fluid since you don't get annoyingly rooted like other games.  Unfortunately, the game lacks in many other categories.

  LisaFlexy22

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/14
Posts: 422

2/17/14 10:58:01 AM#35
I respect the fact that other people put more value on certain things than I do.  But for me personally, I just don't get what the big deal is with this.  I mean sure, it's visually kind of cool how in GW2 if I stand on the side of a mountain my knees bend to look more realistic, or that certain other animations are done better than games like TSW or ESO.  But ultimately none of those good or bad animations have ever increased or decreased my actual play experience or enjoyment of a game.  To each their own though. 
  jidakra

Novice Member

Joined: 2/13/14
Posts: 21

2/17/14 11:03:51 AM#36

Why do people put WoW on the list of games with good animations? WoW looks like a cartoon. Animations bug out all the time, get cancelled, characters float around the floor when running and starting a cast sometimes - but because of exactly this cancelling of animations and abruptness, it FEELS soooo responsive like no other MMO does.

Yet again, take GW2 as an example. Animations are smooth, detailed, elaborate - and that makes it incredible floaty and unresponsive. I HATE HATE HATE HATE it when my character needs to move his hand to his bow, draw the arrow and THEN starts rapidfireing, half a second after I pressed the damn button. I would MUCH rather have him make some ridiculously jerky movement and just use the damn skill INSTANLY. This goes for all classes. Instantcasts are supposed to be instant, fuck the damn animation.

Also, because of ArenaNets obsessison with animations, you cant cast anything while in the air. Its so annoying when pvping. Certain skills even just LOCK you in place because of their animation (ranger Sword comes to mind).

ESO cant get away with how WoW handles it, because it goes for a certain degree of realism (and you cant apply the princinples of comic-animations to realistic character models), which is needed to make AvA feel as epic as it does. However, it tries to find a middleground between jerky, crappy animations that are responsive but not completely unbearable to look at. In some places, this works very well, in others (weaponswap takes too long, running is TOO horrible, bow needs work) it fails miserably.

The idea, however, is something I very much support. I dont even care if they do nothing to tweak it any further, what I doubt, because they already did some tweaking, as long as it stays as responsive as it is.

  Ender4

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2096

2/17/14 11:16:35 AM#37


Originally posted by LisaFlexy22
I respect the fact that other people put more value on certain things than I do.  But for me personally, I just don't get what the big deal is with this.  I mean sure, it's visually kind of cool how in GW2 if I stand on the side of a mountain my knees bend to look more realistic, or that certain other animations are done better than games like TSW or ESO.  But ultimately none of those good or bad animations have ever increased or decreased my actual play experience or enjoyment of a game.  To each their own though. 

For me it isn't just the animations, it all gets lumped together. TSW has clunky unresponsive combat, fighting in that game just plain feels wrong which seriously cuts into the fun of the game. The things I don't care about at all are things like graphics or voice overs etc, the fluff stuff. The basic gameplay which this is part of, is by far the most important part of any game.

  Elbone

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 55

"The closer you get to the light, the greater your shadow becomes"

2/17/14 11:21:20 AM#38

World of warcraft's animations, for being 10 years of age, are still among the best coded on the market. The transition between moving, attacking, casting and jumping is still very satisfying. Cartoonish has nothing to do with the animation. Its the art style.

Elder scroll had sloppy animations in all it's games which is why I've never really gotten into them. It's a deal breaker to me, more power to you if you can look past that.

 

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7191

2/17/14 11:30:46 AM#39


Originally posted by Squeak69

tera dose not have fluid combat animations the you and the enimies have seperate animations that are activated based on actions chossen, they are pretty but they have no more collision then ESO

Tera has no fluid animations...

/thread

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3883

2/17/14 11:33:18 AM#40
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Bad in comparison to what mmorpg?

Almost all other mainstream ones released past 2004 except maybe LOTRO, Warhammer and Rift which also have awful animations?

Which western-style non-cartoony mainstream MMOs other than LOTRO, RIFT and Warhammer are we talking about here?

WoW, Conan, GW2, SW:TOR (yes, it has better ANIMATIONS than ESO, not as good as WoW or GW2, but at least they CONNECT with the enemy), CoH/CoV, Neverwinter, EQ2... shall I continue?

 

I'm not saying that ESO animations are perfect, they're not, but I for one hate the over-the-top eastern-style animations and FX that are part of Tera, FF, GW2, etc.

GW2 doesn't have "over the top" Asian animations. Don't let your hatred of that game blind you. Would you have said that about Tera, I'd have agreed, but GW2 is definitely western style animation wise.

 I don't hate GW2 lol. I still play it now and then. But no, I don't like their overabundance of FX tied to every swing of my gigantic oversized 2-hd sword... I can dislike animations and FX and still play - just ain't a deal breaker for me.

As to your list, I'll agree with Conan having better animations...but that's it,

 

The animations here are not that bad. Certainly not what I was expecting after the leaked beta comments started dumping on ESO animation almost a year ago, It's just another meme about this game that, like all good memes, has a grain of truth but gets blown out of all proportion once the internet mob gets a hold of it.

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