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General Discussion  » F2P vs P2P. Why

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86 posts found
  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 3189

I actually still like MMORPGs

2/16/14 4:30:30 PM#41
Personally I'd prefer a B2P model that sells most content access. I think that would be a great way to go. Problem is most games that do that also offer a sub option that gives you some perks only available with sub so you kinda feel forced to sub. But a good buy as you go option would make an MMO feel like you are paying for content and not power but you aren't obligated to play 24/7 because of a sub. Sometimes a sub makes me feel like if I don't play for a week I wasted my money.

  Spawnblade

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/02/05
Posts: 197

2/16/14 4:33:24 PM#42
Originally posted by Satarious
Originally posted by oldboygamer
 

 

>- snip snip -<

 

It's a pretty good game and I enjoyed it, I just don't think I want to pay over £100 a year to play. It sounds even more ridiculous every time I type it.

 

 

You pay $1260 a year for cable.

If you go to the movies every week, you pay $960 (per person) per year

If you go to NFL football games in a season, you pay approximately $250 (per person) a year on tickets

You probably spend about $600 a year on gas to get  around to various forms of entertainment

A strip joint will probably cost you around a couple of hundred dollars

-----------------------------

What's more ridiculous, to me, is how people complain about a drop in the bucket like $180 a year for entertainment which is a whole lot cheaper than a lot of other forms of entertainment.  And that's if you even MAKE the whole year.  If you think the game sucks, you'll stop subbing (unless you're stupid) after the first month.  So you're only out $15 in subscription fees for the year.

YES.  THANK YOU.

 

Some people even pay a lot more than that for their TV service.  $100/month is more like a bundled basic price, at least with Comcast.  I know some people that pay twice that for a few extra channels and those special networks that you have to add-on.

 

I always figure with MMOs that if I'm playing it, then I should be playing it at least 10 hours a week (if I'm not, it's probably not good enough to stay subscribed,) which, if I wanted to go get that much entertainment from movies or paintball or something, would cost me -at least- 50 bucks a week, meaning $150-200 value per month.  

 

I mean, shit, I'm a poor mofo and I consider it chump change.  The only time I thought it was a lot of money was when I was too young to work a job (and I started working at 14.)

  Squeak69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 972

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

2/16/14 4:35:20 PM#43
Originally posted by Azzras
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by oldboygamer
Originally posted by mad-hatter
I will always prefer P2P, not many games can do f2p the right way.  Don't really care for fluff, rather earn it in game, and by that I don't mean grinding and converting in game money for cash shop money, or buying cash shop items off an auction house with currency.  Gives devs more chance to focus on real content for their game instead of making new cash shop items every week/month.

 

Well why not the option of a sub for those who want it in ESO and a cash shop for the rest of us who want to not sub but would like to spend our money in other ways, if at all? Why does it have to be either or? I expect people will say the community is better in a non f2p game, but that just isn't true in my opinion.

because F2P will say that its unfair that P2P gets this and that but they dont, if ya dont beleave me check out TOR.

and also because if you have a cash shop it is very very rare that P2P people actully get everything in it just for thier sub and then are forced to do the greatest of all evils in MMO today use a cash shop to get additional content while they are already paying for a sub. once agian if you dont beleave me check out TOR.

what it comes down to is putting the two into the same game just simply end up pissing everyone off in the end.

I played SWTOR.  Bought the collector's edition even.

Worst f2p transition possible.  If you don't pay an outrageous amount if you're not subbed, you might as well not play the game because of so many restrictions.  If you sub, you still feel gimped in a way and obligated to buy from the shop.  BW/EA gives a tiny tiny allowance to subbers, but it's no way balanced.

Also seems the majority of that game now is dedicated to the cash shop.

i did pretty much state all of that but im bad with words sometimes :P

and i do agree with you completly it is one of the best worst examples of how mixing F2P and P2P togther can go horribly wrong.

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  Spawnblade

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/02/05
Posts: 197

2/16/14 4:36:08 PM#44
Originally posted by Fendel84M
Personally I'd prefer a B2P model that sells most content access. I think that would be a great way to go. Problem is most games that do that also offer a sub option that gives you some perks only available with sub so you kinda feel forced to sub. But a good buy as you go option would make an MMO feel like you are paying for content and not power but you aren't obligated to play 24/7 because of a sub. Sometimes a sub makes me feel like if I don't play for a week I wasted my money.

B2P was great until they decided to throw in a cash shop with the mix.  And then every freaking content update half the changes/additions is stupid shit to said cash shop that was supposed to be purely "convenience" and "vanity"  (of which it is, perhaps, too much of both.)  -- referring to GW2 of course.

  Otakun

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/28/07
Posts: 912

2/16/14 4:38:22 PM#45
Donno why people who are P2P enthusiasts keep posting P2P vs F2P arguments here on MMORPG.com. It's been proven many times that this site's community prefers P2P and that any logical pro-F2P argument will get run over by anti-F2P lies and opinion. If you want an actual discussion on the topic then you should go to a site forum that has a more F2P stance but that's not what you want, is it? You just want people to boast your already fragile opinion on the topic.  
  Squeak69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 972

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

2/16/14 4:39:42 PM#46
Originally posted by Spawnblade
Originally posted by Satarious
Originally posted by oldboygamer
 

 

>- snip snip -<

 

It's a pretty good game and I enjoyed it, I just don't think I want to pay over £100 a year to play. It sounds even more ridiculous every time I type it.

 

 

You pay $1260 a year for cable.

If you go to the movies every week, you pay $960 (per person) per year

If you go to NFL football games in a season, you pay approximately $250 (per person) a year on tickets

You probably spend about $600 a year on gas to get  around to various forms of entertainment

A strip joint will probably cost you around a couple of hundred dollars

-----------------------------

What's more ridiculous, to me, is how people complain about a drop in the bucket like $180 a year for entertainment which is a whole lot cheaper than a lot of other forms of entertainment.  And that's if you even MAKE the whole year.  If you think the game sucks, you'll stop subbing (unless you're stupid) after the first month.  So you're only out $15 in subscription fees for the year.

YES.  THANK YOU.

 

Some people even pay a lot more than that for their TV service.  $100/month is more like a bundled basic price, at least with Comcast.  I know some people that pay twice that for a few extra channels and those special networks that you have to add-on.

 

I always figure with MMOs that if I'm playing it, then I should be playing it at least 10 hours a week (if I'm not, it's probably not good enough to stay subscribed,) which, if I wanted to go get that much entertainment from movies or paintball or something, would cost me -at least- 50 bucks a week, meaning $150-200 value per month.  

 

I mean, shit, I'm a poor mofo and I consider it chump change.  The only time I thought it was a lot of money was when I was too young to work a job (and I started working at 14.)

P.S. i also got my first job at 14, it was at a snowcone stand gods i would give anything to work a snow cone stadn agian, i luved that job.

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  Azzras

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/14
Posts: 422

One Shot, Two Kills.

2/16/14 4:41:37 PM#47
Originally posted by Squeak69
*snip*

i did pretty much state all of that but im bad with words sometimes :P

and i do agree with you completly it is one of the best worst examples of how mixing F2P and P2P togther can go horribly wrong.

I was just giving my own perspective.  They just so happened to agree with/reinforce yours.  :)

 

  Heretique

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/02/07
Posts: 1010

Most of my posts get deleted.

2/16/14 4:44:10 PM#48

I am a big fan of P2P, always have been and always will.

Thing is, Zeni has already gone back on what they've stated in the past with "core" values so I am thinking if they have no problem doing that and also pay gating a race then why wouldn't they think of doing F2P after they start bleeding subs. This is inevitable for most themeparks post-WoW it seems.

They will sell a lot of boxes because people think they are getting a fresh MMO, after all the dust settles the bleeding will start. After that, depending on the numbers, it can keep P2P but if it's not lucrative as initially thought then here comes F2P with a chance to sub where you get monthly "Tamriel Coins" to spend in the cash shop.

 

Originally posted by salsa41
are you have problem ?

  Satarious

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/08
Posts: 1056

2/16/14 4:44:18 PM#49
The way I look at subscription fees is that you're paying for the perk to be a part of this social RPG world that costs money to maintain (staff, servers, developers for updates and bug fixing, etc.).  It's a whole lot different than a single player game since it's massive in scale and you interact with a world full of other real life human players.  Which is why I don't get this drive to make the payment model the same as a single player game (B2P or F2P) .  It just does not compute.  It's like trying to jam a square peg into a round hole.  What you end up with instead is this pathetic drive by developers to scrounge up money elsewhere (like from cash shops, etc.) which ruins immersion and quite often turns into Pay to Win.  The People who prefer F2P think money grow on trees, as far as I'm concerned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

  Azzras

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/14
Posts: 422

One Shot, Two Kills.

2/16/14 4:46:47 PM#50
Originally posted by Otakun
Donno why people who are P2P enthusiasts keep posting P2P vs F2P arguments here on MMORPG.com. It's been proven many times that this site's community prefers P2P and that any logical pro-F2P argument will get run over by anti-F2P lies and opinion. If you want an actual discussion on the topic then you should go to a site forum that has a more F2P stance but that's not what you want, is it? You just want people to boast your already fragile opinion on the topic.  

Why is my opinion fragile?  I at least had the courtesy to give examples of my discontent for some games that are f2p.

If you want to say f2p is better/worse/about the same as p2p or b2p than I'm all for an open discussion.

If you want to disregard others' opinions, leaving me with the impression that you feel you are superior and my opinion is less than yours, then that's fine to...but I won't be responding any longer to you if that's the case.

  Squeak69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 972

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

2/16/14 4:49:58 PM#51
Originally posted by Heretique

I am a big fan of P2P, always have been and always will.

Thing is, Zeni has already gone back on what they've stated in the past with "core" values so I am thinking if they have no problem doing that and also pay gating a race then why wouldn't they think of doing F2P after they start bleeding subs. This is inevitable for most themeparks post-WoW it seems.

They will sell a lot of boxes because people think they are getting a fresh MMO, after all the dust settles the bleeding will start. After that, depending on the numbers, it can keep P2P but if it's not lucrative as initially thought then here comes F2P with a chance to sub where you get monthly "Tamriel Coins" to spend in the cash shop.

 

this is my big worry right now as well, to be honest i kinda didnt like the races being restrained by faction to begin with. but the fat that they put so much focus into it and told us time and agian that this had a purpose, and then threw the whole thing out the window leaves me hesitant. 

it make me wonder alot whether or not they planned it that way or they did it due to fans complaining about it.

ether way im very much on the fence and unless most of my friends actully decide to get the game pre ordered i prob will wait several months after launch to see what is happening befor i join in if even then 

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  Azzras

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/14
Posts: 422

One Shot, Two Kills.

2/16/14 4:53:34 PM#52
Originally posted by Heretique

I am a big fan of P2P, always have been and always will.

Thing is, Zeni has already gone back on what they've stated in the past with "core" values so I am thinking if they have no problem doing that and also pay gating a race then why wouldn't they think of doing F2P after they start bleeding subs. This is inevitable for most themeparks post-WoW it seems.

They will sell a lot of boxes because people think they are getting a fresh MMO, after all the dust settles the bleeding will start. After that, depending on the numbers, it can keep P2P but if it's not lucrative as initially thought then here comes F2P with a chance to sub where you get monthly "Tamriel Coins" to spend in the cash shop.

 

About the race thing.  I just don't get the problem with it.

People seem to GLADLY pay WoW $25 a pop for a mount or $10 for a pet that you CANNOT get in game...yet you rarely hear that it's bad...AND WOW IS STILL A SUB model.  I know, WoW is normally the exception to the rules, but I do feel the argument is relevant here.  TWENTY FIVE DOLLARS FOR A MOUNT...AND THAT'S ALL YOU GET. 

Now THAT is absurd to me.

Collector's edition that has a human looking race with no major benefits over the other races...not a huge fan, but also not a huge deal in the context of what games like WoW do.

  Thornrage

Comfortably Numb

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 539

Why kill them with kindness, when I can use an axe?

2/16/14 4:55:25 PM#53
Originally posted by Spawnblade

Dunno.  People don't whine and complain that the latest Call of Duty isn't free.  They don't demand a month free trial to test it first to make sure it's decent before dropping money on it (and yet most P2P MMOs happily provide this.)  People seem to want a game that will keep them occupied longer than Call of Duty, and provide constant content updates and included expansions (that a single player game will not,) but for some silly reason are unwilling to actually pay the same price they would for that single player FPS (or whatever other game we're referring to.)  Obviously that $15 is going to continued development as well, so it's not like it's not going to the game you play and expanding it.

Excellent point!

  Azzras

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/14
Posts: 422

One Shot, Two Kills.

2/16/14 4:57:08 PM#54
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by Heretique

I am a big fan of P2P, always have been and always will.

Thing is, Zeni has already gone back on what they've stated in the past with "core" values so I am thinking if they have no problem doing that and also pay gating a race then why wouldn't they think of doing F2P after they start bleeding subs. This is inevitable for most themeparks post-WoW it seems.

They will sell a lot of boxes because people think they are getting a fresh MMO, after all the dust settles the bleeding will start. After that, depending on the numbers, it can keep P2P but if it's not lucrative as initially thought then here comes F2P with a chance to sub where you get monthly "Tamriel Coins" to spend in the cash shop.

 

this is my big worry right now as well, to be honest i kinda didnt like the races being restrained by faction to begin with. but the fat that they put so much focus into it and told us time and agian that this had a purpose, and then threw the whole thing out the window leaves me hesitant. 

it make me wonder alot whether or not they planned it that way or they did it due to fans complaining about it.

ether way im very much on the fence and unless most of my friends actully decide to get the game pre ordered i prob will wait several months after launch to see what is happening befor i join in if even then 

I have nothing to back this up, but I'd guess it was the publisher/marketing that forced the change.

I only hope they make the general races unlocked after post-launch players get a character to X level or complete  X requirements.  I don't think everyone after launch should be locked on what race they can play based on their alliance since they are allowing pre-order players the freedom of choice in that regard.

  jazz.be

Novice Member

Joined: 8/26/06
Posts: 783

 
OP  2/16/14 5:04:47 PM#55
Originally posted by Otakun
Donno why people who are P2P enthusiasts keep posting P2P vs F2P arguments here on MMORPG.com. It's been proven many times that this site's community prefers P2P and that any logical pro-F2P argument will get run over by anti-F2P lies and opinion. If you want an actual discussion on the topic then you should go to a site forum that has a more F2P stance but that's not what you want, is it? You just want people to boast your already fragile opinion on the topic.  

 

If you have something to contribute to this topic please do, if not well that's regrettable but your opinion is noted I guess.

  swedago

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/07
Posts: 71

2/16/14 5:05:13 PM#56
Originally posted by jazz.be

We've seen many people, and even reviewers, complain about the P2P model in ESO.

I have my own opinion on this as well. And I simply don't understand the people who really believes this game should not be P2P. I find this quite interesting for some reason, to me as far as I've seen this game is quite "complete".  There are different reasons possible so I've been wondering the following question and would like to hear people's opinions on this.

Why exactly should this game be F2P and not P2P, please state concrete arguments relevant to this game. If it's not relevant to this game but rather a general principle please also state it.

If it's because you simply do not like the game (for example action style combat, no tab targetting etc), which is an important detail, also state it. I think everyone can fall in this category. I mean if you don't like something that is an essential feature you obviously would want it to be free so you can still check it out without engagement.

People who don't feel this game should be P2P please also state what would change your mind. This is what I would find most interesting :-) 

 

If you do want this to be P2P, feel free to do the same.

I hope it stays P2P.  F2P games bring an annoying crowd and kills the game for me.

  kkarrabbass

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/08
Posts: 160

I was a smart man once...

2/16/14 5:34:00 PM#57
Originally posted by Azzras
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by Heretique

I am a big fan of P2P, always have been and always will.

Thing is, Zeni has already gone back on what they've stated in the past with "core" values so I am thinking if they have no problem doing that and also pay gating a race then why wouldn't they think of doing F2P after they start bleeding subs. This is inevitable for most themeparks post-WoW it seems.

They will sell a lot of boxes because people think they are getting a fresh MMO, after all the dust settles the bleeding will start. After that, depending on the numbers, it can keep P2P but if it's not lucrative as initially thought then here comes F2P with a chance to sub where you get monthly "Tamriel Coins" to spend in the cash shop.

 

this is my big worry right now as well, to be honest i kinda didnt like the races being restrained by faction to begin with. but the fat that they put so much focus into it and told us time and agian that this had a purpose, and then threw the whole thing out the window leaves me hesitant. 

it make me wonder alot whether or not they planned it that way or they did it due to fans complaining about it.

ether way im very much on the fence and unless most of my friends actully decide to get the game pre ordered i prob will wait several months after launch to see what is happening befor i join in if even then 

I have nothing to back this up, but I'd guess it was the publisher/marketing that forced the change.

I only hope they make the general races unlocked after post-launch players get a character to X level or complete  X requirements.  I don't think everyone after launch should be locked on what race they can play based on their alliance since they are allowing pre-order players the freedom of choice in that regard.

You should read some answers on ESO site. They stated firmly, it is not going to  happen.

  Azzras

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/14
Posts: 422

One Shot, Two Kills.

2/16/14 5:41:41 PM#58
Originally posted by kkarrabbass
*snip*

I have nothing to back this up, but I'd guess it was the publisher/marketing that forced the change.

I only hope they make the general races unlocked after post-launch players get a character to X level or complete  X requirements.  I don't think everyone after launch should be locked on what race they can play based on their alliance since they are allowing pre-order players the freedom of choice in that regard.

You should read some answers on ESO site. They stated firmly, it is not going to  happen.

Oh well, sucks to be those that don't pre-order then?

Not the end of the world.  Most games have race/faction locks.  I'd prefer it to be open, but meh.

None the less, can you link this?  I haven't seen it mentioned that they will never allow players after launch to choose race/faction freely.

  hg2012

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/13
Posts: 70

2/16/14 5:44:39 PM#59
Originally posted by eric1000
I'm happy that it's P2P and long may it stay so.  I'm tired of the F2P crowd that plague other MMO's.  It is no secret that there are no good MMO communities anymore and I feel that F2P games are a major contributing factor to that.  If you don't pay to play a game you have no real connection to it.

How does paying a monthly fee make someone a morally nicer person? I fail to see that logic, it's just more propaganda spewed out by the "P2P nazi's". I don't see how paying for a game keeps me connected to it, I've paid subs for a few games that I've only dipped my head in once or twice before deciding a particular game is not for me... it's the game that has to keep me engaged not the money I pay for it.

As for F2P genuine pro's, here's a few:

1/ Larger ingame population, a natural deathbed for P2P games is the lack/decline in population. F2P games don't suffer this issue and can keep a game populated for years.

2/ Greater earning potential, recent earnings reports show the F2P market is strong and continuing to climb while subscription and other digital markets are falling.

3/ Flexibility for the player, pay for what you want/what you think the developers deserve. You aren't paying $15 a month to do say PvE content when all the development is being pushed to PvP or vice versa.In most cases you can literally vote with your wallet without giving the game up entirely.

4/ Easier for friends to get into the game/ get involved. You can literally just chuck someone a link and say check this game out instead of having to rely on friends to have enough cash in order to play a video game together. 

5/ Times are tough, people seem to forget the state of the world's economy and that excuses like "it's only the cost of a pizza" are rather lame. I'm sure most people would end up pretty broke if they approached life with that metaphor. Companies actually need to realize that most people are probably already getting gouged to their eyeballs with other bills and a more flexible payment model like F2P would probably suit them better than a static sub.

  Void425

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 99

2/16/14 5:50:31 PM#60

I never believed TESO should be F2P.  I believe it still should be a P2P game.

One of the  problems is that that that give too much advantage to the Collector Edition which feels like a severe Handicap to those who only buy the regular edition.  The price of the monthly also seems to high for what else is currently on the market.

I do not believe TESO is worth the $80 + $15/month.  Even if they fixed the collector edition issues I still would not consider it worth $60 + 15/m.

 

I do consider this a GOOD enough game that if they gave regular version everything the collector is currently getting then it would make a Great $60 + $10/m game.  Then they could fluff up the collectors addition with purely cosmetic perks for the extra money.

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