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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » F2P vs P2P. Why

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86 posts found
  User Deleted
2/16/14 3:01:09 PM#21
Originally posted by oldboygamer

I find it amusing that the advocates of subs criticise f2p as buy to win or pay to play. ESO has already crossed that line with the CE and Imperial race. It has already started as a game with a pay gate, and I'm sure there will be many things to come that subbers don't get without paying more, so let's not hear any more rubbish that subs will keep ESO from being a pay to win game, it already is that.

 

As for sub or f2p. Personally I've subbed to every game I've played all the way from UO, EQ, DAoC and on and on... So I have a lot of experience of subbing to games. Unfortunately the sub model doesn't work any more. It's not true to say it keeps away an anti-social element (look at WoW) and Lake of Ill Omen chat back in old EQ was troll heaven. It's also not true that f2p means a shoddy third rate game, look at LOTRO. I've played lotro since launch and I'm a lifer and the f2p model has made no difference to me at all in terms of the playability and quality of the game and lotro has gone from strength to strength.

 

In my experience and opinion subscriptions do not guarantee a better game and a better game experience. So, after years of subbing I'm just no longer prepared to pay over £100 a year for a game, no matter how great that game may be. It's that simple.

 

LOTRO is now my preferred model. VIP access, luckily I bought that lifetime sub six years ago, and a cash shop which means I can spend my money how I like when I like and as little or as much as I like. I'd rather control that monthly $10 a month or whatever than have it swallowed by the games company and not spent on any improvements in game. To be honest why would anyone sub to any game these days? If you want to throw your hard earned cash away I'll send you my paypal details.

 

I'm sure all this academic any way because it will be a f2p game in a few months regardless.

What I read was personal experience from past choices wall of text and a passive aggressive finisher.  So I take it you've played the game or have you?

jigsaw let's play

 

I would also like to know from your experience playing ESO why you think it will go F2P in a few months?  If you haven't played it I presume you are intimatly familiar with the features of the actual game the would promote a F2P model or a Sub model?

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6313

2/16/14 3:09:55 PM#22

Because the game isn't worth a sub for.  It's a low quality SCMORPG game.

 

GW2 on the other hand was also not that big as it made it out to be, but was forgivable because of  payment model

  User Deleted
2/16/14 3:15:29 PM#23
Originally posted by MMOExposed

Because the game isn't worth a sub for.  It's a low quality SCMORPG game.

 

GW2 on the other hand was also not that big as it made it out to be, but was forgivable because of  payment model

Elaborate.  From your own personal experience with ESO, not other games.

  mad-hatter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/15/04
Posts: 238

2/16/14 3:19:26 PM#24
I will always prefer P2P, not many games can do f2p the right way.  Don't really care for fluff, rather earn it in game, and by that I don't mean grinding and converting in game money for cash shop money, or buying cash shop items off an auction house with currency.  Gives devs more chance to focus on real content for their game instead of making new cash shop items every week/month.
  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6313

2/16/14 3:28:51 PM#25
Originally posted by Pyatra
Originally posted by MMOExposed

Because the game isn't worth a sub for.  It's a low quality SCMORPG game.

 

GW2 on the other hand was also not that big as it made it out to be, but was forgivable because of  payment model

Elaborate.  From your own personal experience with ESO, not other games.

Its very theme park like most other MMOs. Doesn't nothing unique in the theme park design either. Also the game uses traditional tabtarget system but with illusionary aim mechanics

That dont really exist. Again nothing stands out about this game to make it different from the mass of others on the market.

For many people, they are simply blinded by the IP hype. Replace the IP with a brand new indie IP and you would be able

See why i am talking about. I like the singleplayer games of this series, but being MMOExposed , i dont easily get blinded by developers  who want to exploit fans of the IP to see another SCOMRPG like all the others in this inflated market.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 7479

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

2/16/14 3:41:54 PM#26

I do not want to see any cash shop games near my computer,so it is one thing Zenimax did right...or have they?

it is still too early to determine if Zeni has a plan to just leech out sub money as much as it can get before changing over to cash shop,only time will tell.If they stick to sub fees then they have done a smart thing.

BTW nothing would change my mind,i play every single game i play because i like it,trying to coerce me because it is tagged with a "FREE to play" label will NEVER do a thing to reel me in.

I believe the original idea of TRIALS are the proper way to go,give players a free week or 10 days,more than enough time to get a feel for the game.What Zeni did NOT do right was adding in that CE,that alienates one subscriber from another,also the same reason i don't like cash shops,i like to know EVERY player in my game is on equal terms.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  oldboygamer

Novice Member

Joined: 2/11/14
Posts: 142

2/16/14 3:49:27 PM#27
Originally posted by Pyatra
Originally posted by oldboygamer

I find it amusing that the advocates of subs criticise f2p as buy to win or pay to play. ESO has already crossed that line with the CE and Imperial race. It has already started as a game with a pay gate, and I'm sure there will be many things to come that subbers don't get without paying more, so let's not hear any more rubbish that subs will keep ESO from being a pay to win game, it already is that.

 

As for sub or f2p. Personally I've subbed to every game I've played all the way from UO, EQ, DAoC and on and on... So I have a lot of experience of subbing to games. Unfortunately the sub model doesn't work any more. It's not true to say it keeps away an anti-social element (look at WoW) and Lake of Ill Omen chat back in old EQ was troll heaven. It's also not true that f2p means a shoddy third rate game, look at LOTRO. I've played lotro since launch and I'm a lifer and the f2p model has made no difference to me at all in terms of the playability and quality of the game and lotro has gone from strength to strength.

 

In my experience and opinion subscriptions do not guarantee a better game and a better game experience. So, after years of subbing I'm just no longer prepared to pay over £100 a year for a game, no matter how great that game may be. It's that simple.

 

LOTRO is now my preferred model. VIP access, luckily I bought that lifetime sub six years ago, and a cash shop which means I can spend my money how I like when I like and as little or as much as I like. I'd rather control that monthly $10 a month or whatever than have it swallowed by the games company and not spent on any improvements in game. To be honest why would anyone sub to any game these days? If you want to throw your hard earned cash away I'll send you my paypal details.

 

I'm sure all this academic any way because it will be a f2p game in a few months regardless.

What I read was personal experience from past choices wall of text and a passive aggressive finisher.  So I take it you've played the game or have you?

jigsaw let's play

 

I would also like to know from your experience playing ESO why you think it will go F2P in a few months?  If you haven't played it I presume you are intimatly familiar with the features of the actual game the would promote a F2P model or a Sub model?

 

Yes, I've played the last two Beta weekends and have 3 characters, the highest 15th level. In my opinion it doesn't not warrent a monthly subscription as it doesn't offer much more than a f2p game like LOTRO and I can't be sure my monthly sub would be spent on improving the game beyond what we might expect from a f2p game with a cash shop.

 

It's a pretty good game and I enjoyed it, I just don't think I want to pay over £100 a year to play. It sounds even more ridiculous every time I type it.

 

Why do I think it will go f2p eventually? Because all recently released mmos have, despite everyone saying they wouldn't. Maybe I'll be wrong, I only have experience to go on.

  Spawnblade

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/02/05
Posts: 200

2/16/14 3:49:33 PM#28

Dunno.  People don't whine and complain that the latest Call of Duty isn't free.  They don't demand a month free trial to test it first to make sure it's decent before dropping money on it (and yet most P2P MMOs happily provide this.)  People seem to want a game that will keep them occupied longer than Call of Duty, and provide constant content updates and included expansions (that a single player game will not,) but for some silly reason are unwilling to actually pay the same price they would for that single player FPS (or whatever other game we're referring to.)  Obviously that $15 is going to continued development as well, so it's not like it's not going to the game you play and expanding it.

 

Now just imagine those same FPSs as free to play.  They end up like Planetside.  Where if you want to uncap your skills to actually be on par with others or use certain weapons, or have access to particular vehicles, you have to pay. 

 

CoD F2P  : :  "I can't wait til next month's allowance so I can afford the Grenade accessory upgrade.  Or should I get the tank driver certification?  Or maybe it'd be better if I could cut my rez time down by ten minutes."

 

Amusingly enough, people do actually pay subscriptions for their CoD too, despite not receiving real content updates.  Just for the privilege of playing over Xbox Live (haaaa.)  Playstation users don't have it as bad though, I admit.

  jazz.be

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/26/06
Posts: 785

 
OP  2/16/14 3:53:59 PM#29
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by jazz.be
Originally posted by gervaise1

I'm not going into that discussion because to be honest it really doesn't matter.

The question was simple really, there is no need to get carried away so much.

From Gervaise's answer I take that he chooses B2P because he fears that the Zenimax won't be able to invest in game progress otherwise. So basically according to him, and perhaps you to, with the P2P model there is not enough room for game progress. 

I personally really don't care how they manage it, as long as they keep those updates coming. I'm not inspecting the plane either when I travel. I assume the pilot and crew have done the necessary.

  oldboygamer

Novice Member

Joined: 2/11/14
Posts: 142

2/16/14 3:55:02 PM#30
Originally posted by mad-hatter
I will always prefer P2P, not many games can do f2p the right way.  Don't really care for fluff, rather earn it in game, and by that I don't mean grinding and converting in game money for cash shop money, or buying cash shop items off an auction house with currency.  Gives devs more chance to focus on real content for their game instead of making new cash shop items every week/month.

 

Well why not the option of a sub for those who want it in ESO and a cash shop for the rest of us who want to not sub but would like to spend our money in other ways, if at all? Why does it have to be either or? I expect people will say the community is better in a non f2p game, but that just isn't true in my opinion.

  oldboygamer

Novice Member

Joined: 2/11/14
Posts: 142

2/16/14 3:58:44 PM#31
Originally posted by Spawnblade

Dunno.  People don't whine and complain that the latest Call of Duty isn't free.  They don't demand a month free trial to test it first to make sure it's decent before dropping money on it (and yet most P2P MMOs happily provide this.)  People seem to want a game that will keep them occupied longer than Call of Duty, and provide constant content updates and included expansions (that a single player game will not,) but for some silly reason are unwilling to actually pay the same price they would for that single player FPS (or whatever other game we're referring to.)  Obviously that $15 is going to continued development as well, so it's not like it's not going to the game you play and expanding it.

 

Now just imagine those same FPSs as free to play.  They end up like Planetside.  Where if you want to uncap your skills to actually be on par with others or use certain weapons, or have access to particular vehicles, you have to pay. 

 

CoD F2P  : :  "I can't wait til next month's allowance so I can afford the Grenade accessory upgrade.  Or should I get the tank driver certification?  Or maybe it'd be better if I could cut my rez time down by ten minutes."

 

Amusingly enough, people do actually pay subscriptions for their CoD too, despite not receiving real content updates.  Just for the privilege of playing over Xbox Live (haaaa.)  Playstation users don't have it as bad though, I admit.

 

I don't think it's obvious subs will be spent on continued development.

 

Yes XBOX live gold is a con as well.

  jazz.be

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/26/06
Posts: 785

 
OP  2/16/14 3:58:55 PM#32

The only real reason in favor of F2P or B2P I read so far was that Zenimax would have enough budget for content updates.

Come on, we've seen many people call out for B2P or F2P. Why do you think it should be this way? And what could change your mind?

 

Oh right someone also mentioned it's not worth a sub due to low quality, which is very general. Would have been cool if he said what needs to be added/changed before it's sub worthy.

 

  Azzras

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/14
Posts: 422

One Shot, Two Kills.

2/16/14 3:58:55 PM#33
Originally posted by Spawnblade

SNIP

Amusingly enough, people do actually pay subscriptions for their CoD too, despite not receiving real content updates.  Just for the privilege of playing over Xbox Live (haaaa.)  Playstation users don't have it as bad though, I admit.

PS4 users do.  Only very select games can be played online w/o a PS+ sub fee. They may still have it better, who knows  PLEASE DON'T TURN THIS INTO A CONSOLE WAR.  CONSOLES ARE INFERERIOR TO PC...which is still another topic.

You also left out games like CoD have a P2W cash shop.  They call it DLC.

  Squeak69

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 972

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

2/16/14 3:59:01 PM#34
Originally posted by oldboygamer
Originally posted by mad-hatter
I will always prefer P2P, not many games can do f2p the right way.  Don't really care for fluff, rather earn it in game, and by that I don't mean grinding and converting in game money for cash shop money, or buying cash shop items off an auction house with currency.  Gives devs more chance to focus on real content for their game instead of making new cash shop items every week/month.

 

Well why not the option of a sub for those who want it in ESO and a cash shop for the rest of us who want to not sub but would like to spend our money in other ways, if at all? Why does it have to be either or? I expect people will say the community is better in a non f2p game, but that just isn't true in my opinion.

because F2P will say that its unfair that P2P gets this and that but they dont, if ya dont beleave me check out TOR.

and also because if you have a cash shop it is very very rare that P2P people actully get everything in it just for thier sub and then are forced to do the greatest of all evils in MMO today use a cash shop to get additional content while they are already paying for a sub. once agian if you dont beleave me check out TOR.

what it comes down to is putting the two into the same game just simply end up pissing everyone off in the end.

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  Azzras

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/14
Posts: 422

One Shot, Two Kills.

2/16/14 4:02:37 PM#35
Originally posted by oldboygamer
Originally posted by mad-hatter
I will always prefer P2P, not many games can do f2p the right way.  Don't really care for fluff, rather earn it in game, and by that I don't mean grinding and converting in game money for cash shop money, or buying cash shop items off an auction house with currency.  Gives devs more chance to focus on real content for their game instead of making new cash shop items every week/month.

 

Well why not the option of a sub for those who want it in ESO and a cash shop for the rest of us who want to not sub but would like to spend our money in other ways, if at all? Why does it have to be either or? I expect people will say the community is better in a non f2p game, but that just isn't true in my opinion.

I'm worried that if a cash shop comes, development will focus more on Sparkle Ponies and Candy Cane Finishers than actual game play development.

  Azzras

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/14
Posts: 422

One Shot, Two Kills.

2/16/14 4:07:21 PM#36
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by oldboygamer
Originally posted by mad-hatter
I will always prefer P2P, not many games can do f2p the right way.  Don't really care for fluff, rather earn it in game, and by that I don't mean grinding and converting in game money for cash shop money, or buying cash shop items off an auction house with currency.  Gives devs more chance to focus on real content for their game instead of making new cash shop items every week/month.

 

Well why not the option of a sub for those who want it in ESO and a cash shop for the rest of us who want to not sub but would like to spend our money in other ways, if at all? Why does it have to be either or? I expect people will say the community is better in a non f2p game, but that just isn't true in my opinion.

because F2P will say that its unfair that P2P gets this and that but they dont, if ya dont beleave me check out TOR.

and also because if you have a cash shop it is very very rare that P2P people actully get everything in it just for thier sub and then are forced to do the greatest of all evils in MMO today use a cash shop to get additional content while they are already paying for a sub. once agian if you dont beleave me check out TOR.

what it comes down to is putting the two into the same game just simply end up pissing everyone off in the end.

I played SWTOR.  Bought the collector's edition even.

Worst f2p transition possible.  If you don't pay an outrageous amount if you're not subbed, you might as well not play the game because of so many restrictions.  If you sub, you still feel gimped in a way and obligated to buy from the shop.  BW/EA gives a tiny tiny allowance to subbers, but it's no way balanced.

Also seems the majority of that game now is dedicated to the cash shop.

  Spawnblade

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/02/05
Posts: 200

2/16/14 4:23:11 PM#37
Originally posted by oldboygamer
Originally posted by mad-hatter
I will always prefer P2P, not many games can do f2p the right way.  Don't really care for fluff, rather earn it in game, and by that I don't mean grinding and converting in game money for cash shop money, or buying cash shop items off an auction house with currency.  Gives devs more chance to focus on real content for their game instead of making new cash shop items every week/month.

 

Well why not the option of a sub for those who want it in ESO and a cash shop for the rest of us who want to not sub but would like to spend our money in other ways, if at all? Why does it have to be either or? I expect people will say the community is better in a non f2p game, but that just isn't true in my opinion.

Because a cash shop takes development time away from the team, while simultaneously allowing people who want to drop their entire paycheck on the shop advantages over those who don't.

  Satarious

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/08
Posts: 1056

2/16/14 4:23:16 PM#38
Originally posted by oldboygamer
 

 

>- snip snip -<

 

It's a pretty good game and I enjoyed it, I just don't think I want to pay over £100 a year to play. It sounds even more ridiculous every time I type it.

 

 

You pay $1260 a year for cable.

If you go to the movies every week, you pay $960 (per person) per year

If you go to NFL football games in a season, you pay approximately $250 (per person) a year on tickets

You probably spend about $600 a year on gas to get  around to various forms of entertainment

A strip joint will probably cost you around a couple of hundred dollars

-----------------------------

What's more ridiculous, to me, is how people complain about a drop in the bucket like $180 a year for entertainment which is a whole lot cheaper than a lot of other forms of entertainment.  And that's if you even MAKE the whole year.  If you think the game sucks, you'll stop subbing (unless you're stupid) after the first month.  So you're only out $15 in subscription fees for the year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

  Spawnblade

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/02/05
Posts: 200

2/16/14 4:25:06 PM#39
Originally posted by Azzras
Originally posted by Spawnblade

SNIP

Amusingly enough, people do actually pay subscriptions for their CoD too, despite not receiving real content updates.  Just for the privilege of playing over Xbox Live (haaaa.)  Playstation users don't have it as bad though, I admit.

PS4 users do.  Only very select games can be played online w/o a PS+ sub fee. They may still have it better, who knows  PLEASE DON'T TURN THIS INTO A CONSOLE WAR.  CONSOLES ARE INFERERIOR TO PC...which is still another topic.

You also left out games like CoD have a P2W cash shop.  They call it DLC.

Sorry not trying to turn it into a console war.  I personally have never used either online service, so I do not know.  I'd only heard that people could play Dark Souls for free on Playstation, but had to pay for Xbox Gold if they wanted it.  I apologize if I erred in my statement.

  Spawnblade

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/02/05
Posts: 200

2/16/14 4:27:44 PM#40
Originally posted by Azzras
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by oldboygamer
Originally posted by mad-hatter
I will always prefer P2P, not many games can do f2p the right way.  Don't really care for fluff, rather earn it in game, and by that I don't mean grinding and converting in game money for cash shop money, or buying cash shop items off an auction house with currency.  Gives devs more chance to focus on real content for their game instead of making new cash shop items every week/month.

 

Well why not the option of a sub for those who want it in ESO and a cash shop for the rest of us who want to not sub but would like to spend our money in other ways, if at all? Why does it have to be either or? I expect people will say the community is better in a non f2p game, but that just isn't true in my opinion.

because F2P will say that its unfair that P2P gets this and that but they dont, if ya dont beleave me check out TOR.

and also because if you have a cash shop it is very very rare that P2P people actully get everything in it just for thier sub and then are forced to do the greatest of all evils in MMO today use a cash shop to get additional content while they are already paying for a sub. once agian if you dont beleave me check out TOR.

what it comes down to is putting the two into the same game just simply end up pissing everyone off in the end.

I played SWTOR.  Bought the collector's edition even.

Worst f2p transition possible.  If you don't pay an outrageous amount if you're not subbed, you might as well not play the game because of so many restrictions.  If you sub, you still feel gimped in a way and obligated to buy from the shop.  BW/EA gives a tiny tiny allowance to subbers, but it's no way balanced.

Also seems the majority of that game now is dedicated to the cash shop.

Agreed.  I stopped playing TOR when it went cash stop.  Suddenly all the money I'd dumped into the game became meaningless to the company.  They gave me like 500 Cartel Coins or something stupid, despite me having paid several hundred dollars on sub and box.  And then I suddenly had to pay extra if I wanted shit that I had BEFORE.  It was the most retarded thing.  I dropped the game immediately afterward and sent a very angry email saying I'd never buy another one of their products.

 

The icing for me, was that it took them something like 4 months of development time to implement the cash shop (where we had virtually no updates, aside from maybe 2 bugs fixed each time,) and then we get the cash shop + about 20 outfits (skimpier the better, apparently,) and half a dozen mounts (the bigger and more obtrusive the better,) that appeared to be all they'd spent their time on.

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