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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » There is no global AH in ESO: Interesting economic design ?

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169 posts found
  Dren_Utogi

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1477

2/15/14 11:53:41 PM#121
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

I've not really been digging-up much info about ESO until quite recently, so the following may be common knowledge to everyone here. I was quite surprised to discover this:

 

  • There is no public global or local Auction House in ESO.
  • Players who don't belong to a player guild can only trade directly with other players via a trade window.
  • There are no player shops or vendors, so no way to advertise your wares other than spamming chat.
  • A player guild that conquers a keep in PVP in Cyrodiil can open a public shop in that keep for as long as they control the keep.
  • There are only 6 keeps that can be "owned" in Cyrodiil, so if none of the player guilds in your faction can conquer a keep, your faction won't have access to any player shops !
  • All player guilds have a "built-in" private shop which can be accessed by all members of the guild via the guild interface ingame, so guild members can sell items to each other.

 

Also:

  • A player guild in ESO can have a maximum of 300 members (?) and those members can be from any one of the 3 factions.
  • You can be a member of up to 5 guilds simultaneously.

 

Now, the fact that there are only 6 ownable keeps in Cyrodiil may not be significant, seeing as there will be multiple PVP campaigns running simultaneously. Presumably at least 1 of your faction's guilds will own a keep (with a shop) in at least ONE campaign instance. Presumably players can port directly to the keeps owned by their faction (in any campaign instance ?) from anywhere in Tamriel ?

 

If you're not a member of a ANY player guild, your only way of trading with other players will be to meet them face-to-face and open a trade window, or to port to a keep in Cyrodill and browse the guild-owned shop.

 

Sources:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/10/18/tamriel-infinium-selling-your-wares-in-the-elder-scrolls-online/

http://www.elderscrollsforum.com/forum/page/1/m/5472177/viewthread/10831965-guild-store-system-sounds-terrible

I like it.

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  GuyClinch

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/28/13
Posts: 487

2/16/14 1:29:47 AM#122

This seems unnecessarily hardcore - especially if you need crafting stuff from other professions. I like the easy mode auction house. Having to advertise your wares via spam chat doesn't really build community bonds, IMHO. Its not going to make or break the game though.

I am not one of those that believe some particular design choice that I don't like 'kills' a game.

  gwei1984

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/22/12
Posts: 378

2/16/14 3:03:30 AM#123

I think the idea is pretty interesting. Given the chance that you can actually join 5 guilds, those guilds are more like actual trading guilds in medieval times.

So, at the end it could look like this:

 

Guild 1: Your closest friends and TS buddys

G2: Big alliance guild for PvP

G3: Huge Trading Guild for Blacksmithing

G4: Alchemists Guild

G5: Big PVE Guild for finding Endgame dungeon/adventure runs

 

Its a nice approach on the whole guild system, and i really like that they try to do something new. Lets see how it works out.

Hodor!

  Epicon

Novice Member

Joined: 2/08/14
Posts: 124

"Shhh! My common sense is tingling..."

2/16/14 4:24:51 AM#124

Let me say I'm a huge supporter of ESO. I have pre ordered the Imperial Edition, and had tons of fun in the 100 hours of beta testing I have done.

I like the lack of a global AH, I feel the game is completely fresh, from the WoW formula but at the same time, isn't so radically different it lacks everything all together, like GW2. I also like the 300 guild member cap, because large, quiet big guilds, grinding for perks, of 1000 members, kill the social aspect of MMOs.  With 300, you have to be somewhat selective.

However, I have some pretty heavy concerns with the Guild system. I think one guild works for a reason. You can always make alts,  for other focus guilds.

Guild 1, is a pvp guild, most ruthless and best in the game. Guild 2 is a decent pvp guild, looking to unseat, Guild 1's domination.

Guild 1 puts a spy, in Guild 2, and they leak information to guild one. Tons of drama happens.

(I realize this can be done with an alt, but it would probably have to be a leveled alt, and that will take tons of work. When you get your main character in five guilds? This is a trollish paradise. *Weird Al music in the background*

That is just  the tip of the iceberg, this also applies to any kind of drama, trolling, griefing, pve. You name it. As a GM in another MMO, I feel a GM's responsibility with stuff like this is only increased. For instance loyalty. new members, there will always be a bigger fish.

Yes it's different and I applaud them for thinking outside the box with guilds. Also it looks good on paper, more choices. That's always good right? Well I am not so sure. When you focus on everything, you focus on nothing.

It seems to send some mixed messages as well. "Hey stick with your guild, you can be rewarded with a store", "Also you can be up to five, so there is no need to be loyal". Where did they exactly pull the number five from? I wouldn't like the idea of two, but I would be okay with it. I hope it succeeds in this aspect and I am wrong. I'm a big fan of the game, but this system, may leave guilds broken.

You might think it's okay, because they could just patch a one guild system in. Then you piss off all the people used to the system, and you risk rage quitting. I hope they change it to, two or one. Multiple guilds works great for single player, but not the MMO. Human nature shatters it.

I think at worst, it becomes a single player like game, that is more fresh then Old Republic and I get my money's worth. Get like 200 hours out of it. I think at best it is a smashing success and shows you can't take hate seriously (which you shouldn't need a game to teach that lesson).

 

EDIT

I also enjoy the 1-10 questing. I really like the fact, generation ADD, thinks it's boring and turns them off of the game.

It's a nice filter system, for the rush to end game a gear players and people who don't care about lore. The people who enjoy the 1-10, really get the point of this game, and are my kind of gamers. These are the people I want in my game.

Those people aren't wrong or bad for not liking it. I just don't enjoy playing with people like that. I got enough of that, after WoW was made uber casual.

"What tastes like purple?"

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3517

2/16/14 4:54:48 AM#125

Are you guys sure that there is no AH in the works? 

Tradechat channels are hardly a solution if playershops are only for guilds and then just the dominating ones. The chat will go way too fast because most will just paste their selling messages 5 times in a row. That is not refreshing and certainly not a 'feature', but just a very time consuming way to stand still and keep a close eye to some text diarrhea from before AH's were invented.

 

  coretex666

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1839

"I shall take your position into consideration"

2/16/14 8:31:44 AM#126

My favorite trading arrangement is represented by player run shops (e.g. L2, KO,..), so that I am ok with elimination of the auction house. Nevertheless, I think that for certain game designs, the auction house is simply the best option which should not be generally considered as plague of MMO communities.

The ESO trading arrangement seems to be quite special and I am interested to see whether it will be accepted by the playerbase in its current form or not. I do not want to make any conclusions prematurely, but I do think that there are potential weaknesses which may need to be addressed in the future.

I think it is fair to say that the way they handle trading supports that PvP is the key aspect of the game.

Or maybe I am wrong. What do purely PVE players think about this trading arrangement?

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  SoulTrapOnSelf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/17/13
Posts: 195

2/16/14 9:23:36 AM#127

I think Zenimax will eventually add an AH in PvE territory. Not all the players will be online 24/7, many have a life.  Let's say a player log in, do some quests, then go to a crafting station and realize he/she needs a material. Advertising in chat may or may not yield results. That's time the player is spending. Then he/she decides to go to Cyrodiil. Hopefully there is no queue to access Cyrodiil. Then once in Cyrodiil, he/she founds out there is no keep available becuase the other factions are controlling so he/she can't buy from guild AH.

What this player is going to do with this hassle? The example above will happen many times. And to be honest, the less queues and loading screens I can avoid the better.

Personally I deal with the chat. Go to the city, probably will stand close to the bank and spam away. If Zenimax doesn't come up with an AH outside Cyrodiil, then PvE players, unite and demand one. You are majority. I am not saying that the Cyrodiil AH system should be removed. Just because I can go into Cyrodiil and still be safe is no excuse. Let the PvPers have their fun, but trading via AH and crafting progression should not be an exclusive of PvPers.

 

 

edit: typo

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

2/16/14 9:37:06 AM#128
Originally posted by Blazer6992

This whole game is wrong. This is just one of many, many reasons why I wont be playing it.

 

Yeah it certainly adds to make me stay away for now. I certainly don't want to waste hours and hours in selling or buying via some cumbersome channals or whatever.

Ridiculous.

 

SWG had a good system. You sold your stuff in your shop, crated by real player housing, but you could browse the wares globally, and sell it automatically via your vendor machine. I liked that. Always had my fav shops. ^^

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  Flyte27

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/13/05
Posts: 2255

2/16/14 10:06:22 AM#129

To me games have become to much about the auction house and a way for people to make money selling gold and other items in game.  It's part of why we now have micro transactions.  The companies saw the money people were making selling these items outside of the game and wanted it for themselves.

I never really was into the buying and selling of items for real money in game.  I was actually pretty firmly against it and it annoyed me a lot since reality was being brought into something that is supposed to be a form of escapism. 

I realize the auction house isn't a means of making money in game, but it does aide it.  I knew people in Everquest that sat in the auction house all day buying and selling instead.  They hardly played the game at all and didn't earn hardly any of the items they had. 

I've always felt that the game should be about playing the game more and about buying/selling virtual good less.  I can only hope this will help to deter people from worrying about their in game items so much that they will spend real life money on them.  Without an easy means to trade in game people might be more inclined to go out and get the items themselves.  One would hope so and least.

  askdaboss

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/13/11
Posts: 457

2/16/14 10:10:09 AM#130
Originally posted by skyline385
People will just create Global Trade websites for  this probably.

This. I think it is a generally bit pointless/lazy to not have an AH.

If you want to gear up quickly, etc. it's good to have an AH. The current implementation is definitely not going in the direction of solo/casual players.

They could even tax the AH a lot more than Guild channels/other channels if they wanted to give advantages to keeps/guilds, but really the current system seems slow and inefficient (and no I don't want to spam "trade" channel for hours, I'd rather play the game).

  Flyte27

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/13/05
Posts: 2255

2/16/14 10:12:58 AM#131
Originally posted by askdaboss
Originally posted by skyline385
People will just create Global Trade websites for  this probably.

This. I think it is a generally bit pointless/lazy to not have an AH.

If you want to gear up quickly, etc. it's good to have an AH. The current implementation is definitely not going in the direction of solo/casual players.

They could even tax the AH a lot more than Guild channels/other channels if they wanted to give advantages to keeps/guilds, but really the current system seems slow and inefficient (and no I don't want to spam "trade" channel for hours, I'd rather play the game).

 

Why do you have to trade at all?  Why can't you just play the game and get the items yourself?  Trade is an optional thing to do with people.  It is never a requirement.

  Bad.dog

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 1155

2/16/14 10:18:59 AM#132
Originally posted by Flyte27

To me games have become to much about the auction house and a way for people to make money selling gold and other items in game.  It's part of why we now have micro transactions.  The companies saw the money people were making selling these items outside of the game and wanted it for themselves.

I never really was into the buying and selling of items for real money in game.  I was actually pretty firmly against it and it annoyed me a lot since reality was being brought into something that is supposed to be a form of escapism. 

I realize the auction house isn't a means of making money in game, but it does aide it.  I knew people in Everquest that sat in the auction house all day buying and selling instead.  They hardly played the game at all and didn't earn hardly any of the items they had. 

I've always felt that the game should be about playing the game more and about buying/selling virtual good less.  I can only hope this will help to deter people from worrying about their in game items so much that they will spend real life money on them.  Without an easy means to trade in game people might be more inclined to go out and get the items themselves.  One would hope so and least.

I think you have hit the nail right on the head ...if I want to play a game revolved around an auction house I'd be looking for a mmo called "Wall Street" or perhaps "Taxman" If every game has to be the same why are folks always looking for new games ?

  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

2/16/14 10:48:19 AM#133
Originally posted by Flyte27
Originally posted by askdaboss
Originally posted by skyline385
People will just create Global Trade websites for  this probably.

This. I think it is a generally bit pointless/lazy to not have an AH.

If you want to gear up quickly, etc. it's good to have an AH. The current implementation is definitely not going in the direction of solo/casual players.

They could even tax the AH a lot more than Guild channels/other channels if they wanted to give advantages to keeps/guilds, but really the current system seems slow and inefficient (and no I don't want to spam "trade" channel for hours, I'd rather play the game).

 

Why do you have to trade at all?  Why can't you just play the game and get the items yourself?  Trade is an optional thing to do with people.  It is never a requirement.

 

It's optional, but many people want to do it.  I think there's some benefit to the external tools thing though.  If people have to invest time and effort into trading, then they are more likely to stick around and play the game. 

 

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Reklaw

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6168

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

2/16/14 10:51:03 AM#134
Originally posted by miagisan
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by miagisan
I actually like it. I always hated universal AHs. I like the idea of player/guild shops, makes for a more regional economy.

There are no player shops. And i don't see how spamming in chat for hours to sell your stuff can be fun for anyone. Each to their own  i guess.

  • A player guild that conquers a keep in PVP in Cyrodiil can open a public shop in that keep for as long as they control the keep.
i was referring to this.

Wondering how it will work out. There are several very big well known guilds who love to dominate many MMORPG's.

Since I havn't really dug deep into PVP, was just a few hours into level 10 when I ended my play session I just wonder how this was tested.

I just find PVE far more social there for not quite sure why TESO has dedicated shops PVP only. Just recalling from my old MMORPG experiance like Star Wars Galaxies I knew plenty of other crafters and most of them where PVE players. Our social part came from our player run shops, player trade player, advertising, mouth to mouth. Meeting eachother or random strangers in Ranger camps while searching/hunting for reasources.

I wished TESO would have given players more freedom in how to sell their warez. But I have to remain reserved because I havn't really played or tried any trading or have witnessed how it all will work out in TESO.

For now everything I did get to play makes me want more...

 

  grndzro

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 1142

2/16/14 10:52:31 AM#135
An AH in ESO would detract from the community aspect of the game. Which is bad in this case.
  Hariken

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/13
Posts: 664

2/16/14 11:51:35 AM#136
Originally posted by Jyiiga
It sounds interesting on paper. It is a way to foster community and cause interaction between players.

Explain this please to the crafter/pve player.  You want to craft and sell your wares go into the pvp zone. Explain how in the world this is a good idea. This board is like a drug. You have to come here just to see people defend every bad decsion made for this game. This was tried in other games and failed. 

  nerovipus32

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2734

2/16/14 11:55:57 AM#137
Heaven forbid players might actually have to interact with each other now.
  A1learjet

Novice Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 125

2/16/14 12:03:57 PM#138
Originally posted by miagisan
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by miagisan
I actually like it. I always hated universal AHs. I like the idea of player/guild shops, makes for a more regional economy.

There are no player shops. And i don't see how spamming in chat for hours to sell your stuff can be fun for anyone. Each to their own  i guess.

  • A player guild that conquers a keep in PVP in Cyrodiil can open a public shop in that keep for as long as they control the keep.
i was referring to this.

The only thing I don't like about this is that it will bring non pvp players into a zone  thus taking up spots for pvp players due to a number cap    aka the jump puzzle players that gw2  be nice if they just had a instanced area you can go to if you control the keep.

 

  A1learjet

Novice Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 125

2/16/14 12:08:36 PM#139
Originally posted by DMKano

If a single guild can have members from any alliance, does the mean that in the same campaign you fight your guildmates?

 

 

You can if there in same Campaign

  A1learjet

Novice Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 125

2/16/14 12:27:16 PM#140
Originally posted by flguy147
One reason for the is to make PVP more important instead of capture the flag.  PVP may have a major affect on your Alliance's economy.  If it works out well the it will be an incredible feature, if it doesnt then they probably will put in a global AH in the future.  People always complain about every game release is the same game that has been released every year for a decade just under a different IP but when a company steps outside the norm and implements a more unique feature then people complain about trying new things to make a different type of MMO.  Developers can never win, i would hate being a developer considering how the majority of MMO fan base acts.

 

Agree, Your side is winning /in control you reap the rewards and riches  I'm just against it pulling pve layers into a maxed populated area keeping the pvp player out. In that I see the issue

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