Trending Games | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn | EverQuest | Star Wars: The Old Republic | Pirate101

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,901,365 Users Online:0
Games:752  Posts:6,271,899
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Hands on with three ESO dungeons.

8 Pages First « 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 » Search
142 posts found
  umcorian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/06/11
Posts: 374

2/13/14 3:42:32 PM#121
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by umcorian
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by umcorian

My point is it seems innovation is just dead in this genre and it saddens me. 

Innovation didn't end with WoW.  You might not like some of the directions the industry has taken and I know in many cases I don't but we have seen a constant stream of it since  that game came out.  Games like Rift, TSW, AOC, Neverwinter, SWTOR etc. have all tried to do new things.  Even WoW has evolved their original game play mechanics over time.

ESO isn't a revolutionary new concept in MMO's but I think it does qualify as innovative in many ways at least as far as MMO's are concerned.  It tries to marriage what is probably one of the most recognizable RPG franchises in modern times with a MMO.  It's not a marriage made in heaven by any means but that's not to say it's a horrible outcome either.  Honestly we won't truly know how this whole things works out until a few months after release as there are a whole lot of unanswered questions right now that I don't think anyone can answer even those people beta testing high level content.

I would say Rift, AOC, Neverwinter, SWTOR, et al... didn't really try to do new things. They just took the WoW cash cow and tried a difficult color bell around its neck. 

Rift's bell was... Rifts that randomly appear and give you incentives to take a break from WoW style questing.

SWTOR's bell was to replace WoW style quest blocks with voice dialogue, add a few extra options... but still ultimately keep WoW style question.

GW2 was their much vaunted "make everyone the healer!" concept and, rather than click on NPCs with "!s" over their heads, you go to areas marked with Hearts rather than "!s."

Ultimately, it's the same game... with just a slightly different bell and whistle in its delivery.

What I call innovation is the kind of thinking that made UO/EQ out of games like King's Quest or Castlevania or whatever their inspirations were... for those that don't wanna give WoW/Blizzard any credit. Fine by me - I'm no Blizzard fanboy. But something special happened at the start of this genre, and all that's happened in at least 10 years is a different kind of stagnation with every new MMO that comes out.

As I said it depends how you look at it.

Rift introduced the idea of multiple roles per class or at least mainstreamed it.  We take the idea of being able to do more than one role for granted in todays games but back before Rift it was common that the answer to that request was "roll a alt"  Also they modernized dynamic PVE content on a much larger scale.

TSW really brought the idea of story telling to the forefront of the game pushing a lot of more traditional MMO mechanics to the background.  They also completely removed the concept of class restricting what role you can play.

AOC modernized the idea of action based MMO

Neverwinter tried to take player created content to the next level

SWTOR tried to push story even farther by creating whole quest lines tied to your class and introduced the idea of companions who at least in theory would level along side you.

And the list go on and on.  I do admit in a lot of cases you could probably point to previous projects where these things where done but in my mind at least these are the games that really managed to make a splash on the market with their respective features.  In some cases you might agree these are good features or bad features but innovation doesn't require you to like what happening just recognize that it is.

I think we ultimately have different standards on what counts for innovation, and - to be fair - I think yours is more accurate. Yes, games have innovated since WoW. All those innovations are upon the same WoW model.

I'm just personally getting sick of model... and, for me, what a game needs to do to truly interest me are no longer the minor innovations you've described. If it's the same model, I'm just not interested anymore.  Not after nearly 15 years, since EQ invented the 3d MMO Theme Park Genre and WoW took it to the level we just can't seem to get beyond. 

Someone please, design me a new wheel. WoW proved the genre is profitable... 10 years later, we are still releasing games that are 80-85% WoW. What gives? 

 

  udon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1618

2/13/14 3:47:25 PM#122
Originally posted by umcorian
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by umcorian
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by umcorian

My point is it seems innovation is just dead in this genre and it saddens me. 

Innovation didn't end with WoW.  You might not like some of the directions the industry has taken and I know in many cases I don't but we have seen a constant stream of it since  that game came out.  Games like Rift, TSW, AOC, Neverwinter, SWTOR etc. have all tried to do new things.  Even WoW has evolved their original game play mechanics over time.

ESO isn't a revolutionary new concept in MMO's but I think it does qualify as innovative in many ways at least as far as MMO's are concerned.  It tries to marriage what is probably one of the most recognizable RPG franchises in modern times with a MMO.  It's not a marriage made in heaven by any means but that's not to say it's a horrible outcome either.  Honestly we won't truly know how this whole things works out until a few months after release as there are a whole lot of unanswered questions right now that I don't think anyone can answer even those people beta testing high level content.

I would say Rift, AOC, Neverwinter, SWTOR, et al... didn't really try to do new things. They just took the WoW cash cow and tried a difficult color bell around its neck. 

Rift's bell was... Rifts that randomly appear and give you incentives to take a break from WoW style questing.

SWTOR's bell was to replace WoW style quest blocks with voice dialogue, add a few extra options... but still ultimately keep WoW style question.

GW2 was their much vaunted "make everyone the healer!" concept and, rather than click on NPCs with "!s" over their heads, you go to areas marked with Hearts rather than "!s."

Ultimately, it's the same game... with just a slightly different bell and whistle in its delivery.

What I call innovation is the kind of thinking that made UO/EQ out of games like King's Quest or Castlevania or whatever their inspirations were... for those that don't wanna give WoW/Blizzard any credit. Fine by me - I'm no Blizzard fanboy. But something special happened at the start of this genre, and all that's happened in at least 10 years is a different kind of stagnation with every new MMO that comes out.

As I said it depends how you look at it.

Rift introduced the idea of multiple roles per class or at least mainstreamed it.  We take the idea of being able to do more than one role for granted in todays games but back before Rift it was common that the answer to that request was "roll a alt"  Also they modernized dynamic PVE content on a much larger scale.

TSW really brought the idea of story telling to the forefront of the game pushing a lot of more traditional MMO mechanics to the background.  They also completely removed the concept of class restricting what role you can play.

AOC modernized the idea of action based MMO

Neverwinter tried to take player created content to the next level

SWTOR tried to push story even farther by creating whole quest lines tied to your class and introduced the idea of companions who at least in theory would level along side you.

And the list go on and on.  I do admit in a lot of cases you could probably point to previous projects where these things where done but in my mind at least these are the games that really managed to make a splash on the market with their respective features.  In some cases you might agree these are good features or bad features but innovation doesn't require you to like what happening just recognize that it is.

I think we ultimately have different standards on what counts for innovation, and - to be fair - I think yours is more accurate. Yes, games have innovated since WoW. All those are innovations upon the same WoW model.

I'm just personally getting sick of model... and, for me, the standard of what I'm willing to play has gone up. If it's the same model, I'm just not interested. Not after nearly 15 years, since EQ invented the 3d MMO Theme Park Genre and WoW took it to the level we just can't seem to get beyond. 

Someone please, design me a new wheel. 

What you want is a revolution to the MMO genre not a innovation.  It's hard to see that happening with how modern development projects and money work but there is alway hope someone will pull it off.  EQN is saying the right things but at this point I have heard the right things so many times from past developers that I'll believe it when I see it.

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

2/13/14 3:52:34 PM#123
Originally posted by botrytis

LOL - GW1 and GW2 were about skill not gearing up and most people, on this forum, laughed that those games. ESO, the darling that can do no wrong is in BETA, and all these forum members are now fawning after the same thing that they scoffed at in GW1/GW2. It is hysterical and very hypocritical.

 

Nothing in those dungeons is remotely new or exciting - a rehash of the same ol' WoW stuff.

I don't know how you can jokingly call ESO 'the darling that can do no wrong', considering all of the hate both on these boards and in what seems like a majority of the preview articles.

I thought synergies were pretty cool, at least I haven't seen those done before (to my goldfish memory). Mages using bows? Tanks wearing cloth? Not a whole lot in those dungeons may have been new, but come on it wasn't even a bit exciting?

  Arataki

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 243

2/13/14 4:00:24 PM#124
Originally posted by botrytis

LOL - GW1 and GW2 were about skill not gearing up and most people, on this forum, laughed that those games. ESO, the darling that can do no wrong is in BETA, and all these forum members are now fawning after the same thing that they scoffed at in GW1/GW2. It is hysterical and very hypocritical.

 

Nothing in those dungeons is remotely new or exciting - a rehash of the same ol' WoW stuff.

I wasn't aware WoW relied on CC for tanking. Then again I don't play WoW, learn something new everyday.

And you've got selective memory, I remember these forums singing GW1 and 2's praises until the fact that you weren't locked out of fights at first so you could zerg, small WvW with keep flipping and server hopping and the fact that every skill you had capped at lvl 10 and you had 70 more levels to go got them. And I've never heard the complaint that GW2 dungeons were just like WoW.

So what are you saying? GW2 dungeons that aren't like WoWs is what ESO copied but now ESO's is like WoWs? Is that seriously your argument right here?

And do no wrong? Have you been under a forum rock?

  umcorian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/06/11
Posts: 374

2/13/14 4:01:42 PM#125
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by umcorian
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by umcorian
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by umcorian

My point is it seems innovation is just dead in this genre and it saddens me. 

Innovation didn't end with WoW.  You might not like some of the directions the industry has taken and I know in many cases I don't but we have seen a constant stream of it since  that game came out.  Games like Rift, TSW, AOC, Neverwinter, SWTOR etc. have all tried to do new things.  Even WoW has evolved their original game play mechanics over time.

ESO isn't a revolutionary new concept in MMO's but I think it does qualify as innovative in many ways at least as far as MMO's are concerned.  It tries to marriage what is probably one of the most recognizable RPG franchises in modern times with a MMO.  It's not a marriage made in heaven by any means but that's not to say it's a horrible outcome either.  Honestly we won't truly know how this whole things works out until a few months after release as there are a whole lot of unanswered questions right now that I don't think anyone can answer even those people beta testing high level content.

I would say Rift, AOC, Neverwinter, SWTOR, et al... didn't really try to do new things. They just took the WoW cash cow and tried a difficult color bell around its neck. 

Rift's bell was... Rifts that randomly appear and give you incentives to take a break from WoW style questing.

SWTOR's bell was to replace WoW style quest blocks with voice dialogue, add a few extra options... but still ultimately keep WoW style question.

GW2 was their much vaunted "make everyone the healer!" concept and, rather than click on NPCs with "!s" over their heads, you go to areas marked with Hearts rather than "!s."

Ultimately, it's the same game... with just a slightly different bell and whistle in its delivery.

What I call innovation is the kind of thinking that made UO/EQ out of games like King's Quest or Castlevania or whatever their inspirations were... for those that don't wanna give WoW/Blizzard any credit. Fine by me - I'm no Blizzard fanboy. But something special happened at the start of this genre, and all that's happened in at least 10 years is a different kind of stagnation with every new MMO that comes out.

As I said it depends how you look at it.

Rift introduced the idea of multiple roles per class or at least mainstreamed it.  We take the idea of being able to do more than one role for granted in todays games but back before Rift it was common that the answer to that request was "roll a alt"  Also they modernized dynamic PVE content on a much larger scale.

TSW really brought the idea of story telling to the forefront of the game pushing a lot of more traditional MMO mechanics to the background.  They also completely removed the concept of class restricting what role you can play.

AOC modernized the idea of action based MMO

Neverwinter tried to take player created content to the next level

SWTOR tried to push story even farther by creating whole quest lines tied to your class and introduced the idea of companions who at least in theory would level along side you.

And the list go on and on.  I do admit in a lot of cases you could probably point to previous projects where these things where done but in my mind at least these are the games that really managed to make a splash on the market with their respective features.  In some cases you might agree these are good features or bad features but innovation doesn't require you to like what happening just recognize that it is.

I think we ultimately have different standards on what counts for innovation, and - to be fair - I think yours is more accurate. Yes, games have innovated since WoW. All those are innovations upon the same WoW model.

I'm just personally getting sick of model... and, for me, the standard of what I'm willing to play has gone up. If it's the same model, I'm just not interested. Not after nearly 15 years, since EQ invented the 3d MMO Theme Park Genre and WoW took it to the level we just can't seem to get beyond. 

Someone please, design me a new wheel. 

What you want is a revolution to the MMO genre not a innovation.  It's hard to see that happening with how modern development projects and money work but there is alway hope someone will pull it off.  EQN is saying the right things but at this point I have heard the right things so many times from past developers that I'll believe it when I see it.

I also have a lot of hope for EQ Next. That's the name attached to the game that made the genre.... if anyone can bring about the next revolution, maybe it's them.

But this is so true: 

"but at this point I have heard the right things so many times from past developers"

That's probably single-handedly why the genre is stagnating. Every MMO that's come out has basically *promised* to revolutionize the genre... when really, all they've done is peddle cheap innovations on a tired model. But people keep buying, just on the hopes they're telling the truth.

I'm really hoping Sony puts this tired horse down.

God I'm asking Sony for a miracle. Feels like the set-up to a bad joke. lol

  tranceauf

Novice Member

Joined: 9/06/08
Posts: 30

2/13/14 4:02:09 PM#126

Animations look so stiff and everyone is hunched over all the time. The encounter mechanics look to easy but then it is low level so i will reserve full judgement till i see end game.  That said I have been burned too many times on mmo's i will wait this one out.  It will either go f2p or at least reduced in price soon enough.

  gobla

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/07
Posts: 1417

C'est la vie.

2/13/14 4:23:54 PM#127

It seems very floaty to me. Hits don't really seem to connect while animations seem a tad off.

Reminds me mostly of GW2 to be honest, action combat more in mechanics than in anything visual which I'd say is just as important.

Don't mean visuals as in quality graphics, this game looks extremely impressive considering it's a MMO. Rather in things looking like they have some weight, which seems completely lacking. Believable stagger animations on getting hit, weapon swings that look like you're actually swinging a heavy weapon, casting animations that look like you're handling actual force. That kind of thing.

I'm seeing the combat. But I'm not feeling it.

We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")

  StarI

Novice Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 824

2/13/14 4:53:40 PM#128
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
 

Lol, Vanguard shipped with over 100 open world dungeons and many of them are vast and span multiple levels. Some took days/week to complete with puzzles and all kinds of traps and dungeons within dungeons.

Sounds like a good amount lmfao, really?

Yet the game lived very short life. Surely because those hundred dungeons were so great ;)

  Flyte27

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/13/05
Posts: 2255

2/13/14 4:57:06 PM#129
Originally posted by StarI
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
 

Lol, Vanguard shipped with over 100 open world dungeons and many of them are vast and span multiple levels. Some took days/week to complete with puzzles and all kinds of traps and dungeons within dungeons.

Sounds like a good amount lmfao, really?

Yet the game lived very short life. Surely because those hundred dungeons were so great ;)

I didn't like Vanguard too much because of the quest system.  With that said most people don't want a really challenging dungeon these days.  If you want a challenging dungeon you could go play Everquest even in this day and age with all the nerfing it has gone through.  I think most people would just get frustrated with them and quit.  Most people don't really want challenge.  They just want something they think is a challenge.

  keithian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 2998

2/13/14 5:08:16 PM#130
My first reaction after watching that was they are very good at coordinating and knowing what they are doing at that my groups and most groups will die multiple times in one boss fight lol. I really liked how many abilities the NPCs and party were using. I think it all looks awesome and challenging despite how successful they were. Also, we don't know how many times they died before showing what they did since they knew exactly what to do at every turn.

There Is Always Hope!

  darkhalf357x

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 1110

I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?

2/13/14 5:34:46 PM#131
What GW2 *SHOULD* have been.  Its not perfect, but cant wait.  Looks fun.

  Eighteen16

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 145

2/13/14 5:42:59 PM#132
Originally posted by keithian
My first reaction after watching that was they are very good at coordinating and knowing what they are doing at that my groups and most groups will die multiple times in one boss fight lol. I really liked how many abilities the NPCs and party were using. I think it all looks awesome and challenging despite how successful they were. Also, we don't know how many times they died before showing what they did since they knew exactly what to do at every turn.

 

Honestly I don't think the starting dungeons are difficult, but I have had terrible luck this beta with healers. I was playing on a very well geared tank, but the healers I got just didn't heal, I would literally sit in block for a minute as my HP slow got to zero. I guess that is inevitable when some people think a wide option of abilities means they can spec into whatever they want and still fit any role...

  User Deleted
2/13/14 5:57:57 PM#133
Originally posted by Eighteen16
Originally posted by keithian
My first reaction after watching that was they are very good at coordinating and knowing what they are doing at that my groups and most groups will die multiple times in one boss fight lol. I really liked how many abilities the NPCs and party were using. I think it all looks awesome and challenging despite how successful they were. Also, we don't know how many times they died before showing what they did since they knew exactly what to do at every turn.

 

Honestly I don't think the starting dungeons are difficult, but I have had terrible luck this beta with healers. I was playing on a very well geared tank, but the healers I got just didn't heal, I would literally sit in block for a minute as my HP slow got to zero. I guess that is inevitable when some people think a wide option of abilities means they can spec into whatever they want and still fit any role...

I was a very effective healer but I used resto staff all the way. the others may have been low level or spread their points out to thin or underestimated one of the healing skills and thus didn't take it or even didn't unlock any healing skills until after the first several levels.  Low level... I would guess the were working on survivability and a few other things and not just focusing on heals.  Also if they burned through and didn't explore they were probably hurting on skill points, I say a lot of people who ended up like that.  Skill points seriously help passives for healing too, but some people feel rushed in a weekend beta so they approach the game like you can just blitz through the main line content and everything will turn out exactly the same.

  darkhalf357x

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 1110

I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?

2/13/14 6:45:20 PM#134
Originally posted by Pyatra
Originally posted by Eighteen16
Originally posted by keithian
My first reaction after watching that was they are very good at coordinating and knowing what they are doing at that my groups and most groups will die multiple times in one boss fight lol. I really liked how many abilities the NPCs and party were using. I think it all looks awesome and challenging despite how successful they were. Also, we don't know how many times they died before showing what they did since they knew exactly what to do at every turn.

 

Honestly I don't think the starting dungeons are difficult, but I have had terrible luck this beta with healers. I was playing on a very well geared tank, but the healers I got just didn't heal, I would literally sit in block for a minute as my HP slow got to zero. I guess that is inevitable when some people think a wide option of abilities means they can spec into whatever they want and still fit any role...

I was a very effective healer but I used resto staff all the way. the others may have been low level or spread their points out to thin or underestimated one of the healing skills and thus didn't take it or even didn't unlock any healing skills until after the first several levels.  Low level... I would guess the were working on survivability and a few other things and not just focusing on heals.  Also if they burned through and didn't explore they were probably hurting on skill points, I say a lot of people who ended up like that.  Skill points seriously help passives for healing too, but some people feel rushed in a weekend beta so they approach the game like you can just blitz through the main line content and everything will turn out exactly the same.

The highlighted portion is what I am loving about this game.  You have options to build your character.  It will be fun until the Internet junkies start posting their theorycrafting, but by and large how well you play will be based on what character you want to be and how well you progress them.  

In this particular example, not all healers are made equal

  SlyLoK

Elite Member

Joined: 7/04/08
Posts: 1045

2/13/14 6:59:26 PM#135
Originally posted by Eighteen16
Originally posted by keithian
My first reaction after watching that was they are very good at coordinating and knowing what they are doing at that my groups and most groups will die multiple times in one boss fight lol. I really liked how many abilities the NPCs and party were using. I think it all looks awesome and challenging despite how successful they were. Also, we don't know how many times they died before showing what they did since they knew exactly what to do at every turn.

 

Honestly I don't think the starting dungeons are difficult, but I have had terrible luck this beta with healers. I was playing on a very well geared tank, but the healers I got just didn't heal, I would literally sit in block for a minute as my HP slow got to zero. I guess that is inevitable when some people think a wide option of abilities means they can spec into whatever they want and still fit any role...

Maybe you werent as good of a tank as you thought you were. Players cant keep up a " well geared tank " when they are to busy trying to keep themselves alive because the " well geared tank " doesnt know how to control aggro in ESO.

  Volgore

Tipster

Joined: 6/15/08
Posts: 2002

Posts deleted: 12589457

2/13/14 7:07:17 PM#136

Although i dont like the game for many reasons, I found the dungeons actually quite good -keeping in mind that this is lowlevel entry stuff. Even the animations didnt look as horrible as they actually are, graphics and overall style looked great to me.

I'm not sure if these guys wanted to show the content or rather put themselves on display, but i wont go into that.

 

  User Deleted
2/13/14 7:13:54 PM#137
Originally posted by Flyte27
It looked fun, but no one seemed to ever be in much danger of dying in the entire video.  The only one that seemed to lose much health was the tank.

The guys in this video are really good. They're blocking and interrupting at the right time, coordinating ultimates, swapping ultimates per the encounter, making proper use of synergies, moving properly, they know all the mechanics, and the healer is comfortable doing dps and healing at the same time. 

  david31741

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/19/06
Posts: 36

2/13/14 7:15:22 PM#138

I played this last weekends "stress test beta".  It was the first time I had played ESO..  I played about 60 hours over the course of those 4 days...maybe more.

I played the Banished Cells & Fungal Grotto (intended for levels 12-15) at least 10 times each as a Dragon Knight speced sword & shield - focused on tanking. I played with multiple pickup groups.  I played through these dungeons from lvl 15 on through to 18 - often times the healer was much lower level or had very little in healing abilities.  I felt like my role was being fullfilled - I was able to keep the bosses focused on me for the most part (better agro mgmt than in the video) - even in light of cloth wearing sorcerers jumping around with 2h swords... and healers who spent a good amount of time casting offensive spells.

These entry level group dungeons are easy with the exception of the first time you run through them.  They are not really challenging.  BUT they are FUN and there is a decent loot table and the story line is cool.  Also, something I do not see commented on much is the amount of "large sacks" & chests that are in each dungeon.  So, lots of crafting goodies and chests to loot for everyone. Loot tables are typical random and everyone loots the boss for their random drops - you can trade most of them as they are bound on equip. 

The only time I had an issue was the first time I ran through the BC's - the end boss was receiving healing from the dark spheres floating towards him during the fight.  Once I understood that the BC boss was not difficult.  Other than this one boss fight, I didn't pay any attention to most of the other "Boss'" special attacks.  

I would imagine it is tough to balance between "too hard" and "too easy".  The main issue here is that the devs WANT people to be able create characters they "want to play". Not that they have to play to be able to be involved in group content.  It is a tough balance without the classic "holy trinity" and min/max specing for group roles.  That is major draw for a lot of people to this game.  You ccoul have a spec that allows you to play any role in a group - if you want.... you could be main healer/main tank or DPS.... just change some gear and hot bar attack/spells around.  I'm sure that might not be as feasible with end game raids and whatnot....

My simple solution would be to have a "normal and hard mode - with items added to the loot table for anything over "normal".  Just increase damage by x% and increase the mobs damage resistances by x%

 

Overall EOS reviewer rant:

Most of the reviewers of this game never get past lvl 10 and this video is the only one I have seen that discusses/shows the group dungeons.  There are so many reasons that make this game worth getting/looking forward to and I am shocked that the "review market" is cluttered with folks who never played past lvl 10!  (shoot most reviewers barely made it out of the initial "get out of prison" area which takes like 10 minutes!)  

 

Some of things I though that were cool in my limited EOS experience:

Named encounters in the open world (found through exploration) / lootable items/sacks/glyphs - amazing crafting involvement / potential for solid economy with player interaction.  / great graphics engaging storylines (many, not all)  PvP environment / mechanics very similar to DAoC - realm vs real (was my fav game/setting)  DAoC devs are over at Zeni making an almost duplicate RvR environment. / treasure maps / detailed, in-depth crafting system.

 

I see lots of opportunity for all types of gamers to love this game... I am not sure why there is so much hate out there (well yes I am - YouTube channels trying to pump out popular review content - i.e. play for 1 hour and get a vid uploaded ASAP - shit 99% of the review vids are put up within 5 hours of the Beta open...)

PvE is engaging and fun.  Re-rollers can play with all kinds of alts and builds and fighting with different styles is  alot of fun. PvE raiders will have content and support via those 24 player dungeons. -- PvE does need to be harder in both open world and dungeon IMO.

PvP has potential to be best in class - especially if you liked DAoC -- there is zerg and there is small group and solo PvP playability.

 

FREE TO PLAY?

I tell ya what - I hope not and I am certain that they are trying to build a community - two specific examples:  crafters names on crafted items and no world AH.  There are some things I see as misteps towards a  "community goal" like the realms interacting switching sides etc... BUT, bottom line - it all hinges on Zenimax being able to create community.  Most MMOers would pay 15 a month for a "fresh" RvR/PvP / PvE / RP /Community.

 

It is all there and way better than any of the games released in the last 5 years IMO.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3883

2/13/14 7:22:22 PM#139
Originally posted by Eighteen16
Originally posted by keithian
My first reaction after watching that was they are very good at coordinating and knowing what they are doing at that my groups and most groups will die multiple times in one boss fight lol. I really liked how many abilities the NPCs and party were using. I think it all looks awesome and challenging despite how successful they were. Also, we don't know how many times they died before showing what they did since they knew exactly what to do at every turn.

 

Honestly I don't think the starting dungeons are difficult, but I have had terrible luck this beta with healers. I was playing on a very well geared tank, but the healers I got just didn't heal, I would literally sit in block for a minute as my HP slow got to zero. I guess that is inevitable when some people think a wide option of abilities means they can spec into whatever they want and still fit any role...

I had a similar but opposite experience: I leveled Healing Staff Templar just to have access to all healing skills to check them out. I couldn't find a good tank who knew to block, dodge, aggro and mitigate. We should have hooked up lol.

 

I did find that after a couple of wipes most people would start to get the hang of it.

 

All in all I really like the system: it's busy but the trinity works.

  keithian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 2998

2/13/14 8:20:10 PM#140
Originally posted by ZeroPointNRG
Originally posted by Flyte27
It looked fun, but no one seemed to ever be in much danger of dying in the entire video.  The only one that seemed to lose much health was the tank.

The guys in this video are really good. They're blocking and interrupting at the right time, coordinating ultimates, swapping ultimates per the encounter, making proper use of synergies, moving properly, they know all the mechanics, and the healer is comfortable doing dps and healing at the same time. 

All they did was make me feel incompetent when I play and I say to myself, "why was it so easy for them?" lol. Anyway, another person just wrote that the beginner dungeons aren't that hard, which I think is OK since they are beginner dungeons. Hopefully there is DEATH DEATH DEATH later on in higher level ones lol.

There Is Always Hope!

8 Pages First « 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 » Search