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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Hands on with three ESO dungeons.

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142 posts found
  User Deleted
2/13/14 10:51:53 AM#41
Originally posted by WereLlama

Anyone know if  6 people can do stuff?

We have been playing as a group since EQ days ... and would like to remain a group.

 Technically, maybe... I know you can probably raid group smaller groups together but not sure about Dungeons or anything like that.

  BBPD766

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/10
Posts: 99

2/13/14 10:54:13 AM#42
Originally posted by arieste
Originally posted by BBPD766

It looks fun? (raised eyebrow) While that is subjective, I see nothing innovative, challenging, or unique about a dungeon that is scripted like every other dungeon that has come before it that would make this fun; with mobs providing no deviation whether it's your first trip or 1,000th trip into it. This blueprint of entering a dungeon where the trash / boss mobs are in the exact same place they were before and do the exact same thing they did the last time to fend you off offers nothing that we haven't already played or seen for the past 10+ years in MMORPG's.

 

I get what you're saying, but can you give me an example of a game where the dungeon somehow adjusts to provide a more appropriate challenge every time you do it?

 Your question is EXACTLY my request; not what we have seen time and time again.

  arieste

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3308

2/13/14 10:59:17 AM#43
Originally posted by BBPD766
Originally posted by arieste
Originally posted by BBPD766

It looks fun? (raised eyebrow) While that is subjective, I see nothing innovative, challenging, or unique about a dungeon that is scripted like every other dungeon that has come before it that would make this fun; with mobs providing no deviation whether it's your first trip or 1,000th trip into it. This blueprint of entering a dungeon where the trash / boss mobs are in the exact same place they were before and do the exact same thing they did the last time to fend you off offers nothing that we haven't already played or seen for the past 10+ years in MMORPG's.

 

I get what you're saying, but can you give me an example of a game where the dungeon somehow adjusts to provide a more appropriate challenge every time you do it?

 Your question is EXACTLY my point; not what we have seen time and time again.

Well, many of the dungeons I've played that have been designed this way were indeed fun.  So yes, this dungeon looks like it is fun to play through.  And the 4 people seen playing seem to be having fun doing it.

 

Now, you imply that this type of dungeon design is not fun and a different one should be used.  So i ask again, in your experience, what dungeon design has been "fun" to you?   I take pride in playing a lot of different MMOs and exploring different mechanics, if there is a kind of fun that i'm missing out on, then I'd like to know where it is so i can try it.

"I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

- Raph Koster

Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2
Currently Playing: EQ2, Firefall

  Fermian

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/06/13
Posts: 26

2/13/14 11:07:58 AM#44
Looks good, however, I think 4 man groups is a bad move. Just a bad dps vs healer vs tank ratio.
  paul43

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/11
Posts: 108

2/13/14 11:11:52 AM#45
Originally posted by Fermian
Looks good, however, I think 4 man groups is a bad move. Just a bad dps vs healer vs tank ratio.

yeah.. I don't know why they go for 4 man dungeons, I fear it will be even harder for DPS to get into dungeons, since there is only 2 slots for them. Most people play DPS in my experience.

  arieste

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3308

2/13/14 11:12:30 AM#46
Originally posted by Fermian
Looks good, however, I think 4 man groups is a bad move. Just a bad dps vs healer vs tank ratio.

How's it a bad ratio?  1 tank, 1 healer, 1 dps, 1 support.   

 

I personally prefer larger groups since it makes for less cliques and more public grouping, but from a ratio perspective, 4 makes the most sense.   

"I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

- Raph Koster

Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2
Currently Playing: EQ2, Firefall

  StarI

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 808

2/13/14 11:12:33 AM#47
Originally posted by DrDwarf
 

Players died all the time in Deadmines in vanilla wow.  Several times per run.

You were dieing all the time in Deadmines? Ahaha what a nub sauce you must have been !

Unless you're talking about random newbs without comms or any knowledge of neither dungeon, classes or MMOs in general?

  greenreen

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1440

2/13/14 11:14:05 AM#48
Originally posted by Fermian
Looks good, however, I think 4 man groups is a bad move. Just a bad dps vs healer vs tank ratio.

I wondered too about the 4th. I think they did it because of this. They do suggest that people pick a role for those dungeon groups so you have 3 people who do the basics, tank, heal, dmg then you have the outlier. That 4th can be there as the floater. If the group needs more heals, they switch to a weapon for that, more dmg, or an off-tank. I think that floater is also there to supplement someone who is incapable sometimes, you know the guy that always stands in fire - the fourth is backup if that guy can't keep it together... yet again but everyone still likes their bubbling personality they are just a shitty player lol

That's why I think they used 4 because they said in the LFG setup that you can choose a role so at 4 someone will be doubling up if the choices are 3.

The floaters will probably be the hardcore ppl who spend a lot of time in the game. They will probably have different gear they carry with them and be meticulous. They will be the hybrid in the truest sense because each battle they might change if the fight calls for it. I see them as possibly leaders of groups with great skill knowledge.

  Magiknight

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/10/09
Posts: 744

2/13/14 11:14:57 AM#49
Are the dungeons instanced in ESO?
  arieste

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3308

2/13/14 11:15:12 AM#50

People died tons in Stormhold and Fallen Gate (early EQ2 dungeons).

 

People died plenty in TSW (it has some of the best dungeons i've played actually). 

 

People died lots in the first RIft dungeon, they it got nerfed hard  :(   (Not realm of the fae, the other side one, i forget name, fae was always easy).

 

So yeah, people do die.  Gotta be some skill involved in play.   This looks like just a solid group though.

 

 

"I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

- Raph Koster

Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2
Currently Playing: EQ2, Firefall

  arieste

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3308

2/13/14 11:15:47 AM#51
Originally posted by Magiknight
Are the dungeons instanced in ESO?

Some are, some not.  It looks liek these 4-man ones are.

"I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

- Raph Koster

Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2
Currently Playing: EQ2, Firefall

  BBPD766

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/10
Posts: 99

2/13/14 11:15:57 AM#52
Originally posted by arieste
Originally posted by BBPD766
Originally posted by arieste
Originally posted by BBPD766

It looks fun? (raised eyebrow) While that is subjective, I see nothing innovative, challenging, or unique about a dungeon that is scripted like every other dungeon that has come before it that would make this fun; with mobs providing no deviation whether it's your first trip or 1,000th trip into it. This blueprint of entering a dungeon where the trash / boss mobs are in the exact same place they were before and do the exact same thing they did the last time to fend you off offers nothing that we haven't already played or seen for the past 10+ years in MMORPG's.

 

I get what you're saying, but can you give me an example of a game where the dungeon somehow adjusts to provide a more appropriate challenge every time you do it?

 Your question is EXACTLY my point; not what we have seen time and time again.

Well, many of the dungeons I've played that have been designed this way were indeed fun.  So yes, this dungeon looks like it is fun to play through.  And the 4 people seen playing seem to be having fun doing it.

 

Now, you imply that this type of dungeon design is not fun and a different one should be used.  So i ask again, in your experience, what dungeon design has been "fun" to you?   I take pride in playing a lot of different MMOs and exploring different mechanics, if there is a kind of fun that i'm missing out on, then I'd like to know where it is so i can try it.

I appreciate and respect the fact you enjoy dungeons that are designed this way (the same every time). For me, are they fun the10th.....20th...100th time I do them? For me, the answer is no.

Of course the four ppl playing it seem to be having fun doing it. It's new to them isn't it? Let's see if it's still as fun 6 months to a year from now when they have run it over and over and over again.

I don't imply this type of dungeon is not fun, Im clearly stating it isnt. Furthermore, in doing so, i've also made it quite clear (again) what design IS fun for me.

  arieste

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3308

2/13/14 11:17:56 AM#53
Originally posted by BBPD766
 i've also made it quite clear (again) what design IS fun for me.

consider me stupid then, because it's still not quite clear to me.  what game has the type of dungeon you enjoy?  maybe i missed a post. 

"I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

- Raph Koster

Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2
Currently Playing: EQ2, Firefall

  DrDwarf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/08
Posts: 502

2/13/14 11:18:38 AM#54

So we will get into a position where monkee specs are not going to be flavour of the week for any serious players running dungeons.

For starters .. .if you roll up to these first dungeons with Billy Farkwit that thinks he can just equip a resto staff for near enough the first time and be the main healer of the group things are not going to end well for everyone relying on him to heal them.

Thats going to happen a lot . Same for effective Tanks and effective DPS.

Then we get Johnny Sheetforbrains who chirps in and says that he can heal himself and someone else that they have a pile of pots on them (that they are going to have fun trying to actually use from what i have seen from the Quickslot ability)

A level 10 group with no weapon swapping is going to need a capable healer and capable DPS and some relatively decent tanking skills not a bunch of useless hybrids with points spent allover the place.

So unless you are in a guild with solid friends and supportive players levelling at your pace, plenty of players are going to find themselves in the shit when it comes to running this content at lower levels.  We cant inspect Billy Farkwit or Johnny Sheetforbrains so we are going to run these places blind and it is going to cost a lot in repairs.

Most players are going to want to run this content at the high end of the level requirement simply because the combination of pug groups and no trinity makes it too easy for you to end up in a group that is going to die every few minutes.

 

  Magiknight

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/10/09
Posts: 744

2/13/14 11:19:34 AM#55
Originally posted by arieste

People died tons in Stormhold and Fallen Gate (early EQ2 dungeons).

 

People died plenty in TSW (it has some of the best dungeons i've played actually). 

 

People died lots in the first RIft dungeon, they it got nerfed hard  :(   (Not realm of the fae, the other side one, i forget name, fae was always easy).

 

So yeah, people do die.  Gotta be some skill involved in play.   This looks like just a solid group though.

 

 

There should be consequences for these people dying.

  Magiknight

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/10/09
Posts: 744

2/13/14 11:20:25 AM#56
Originally posted by arieste
Originally posted by Magiknight
Are the dungeons instanced in ESO?

Some are, some not.  It looks liek these 4-man ones are.

Not playing it then :(

  User Deleted
2/13/14 11:20:49 AM#57
Originally posted by BBPD766
Originally posted by arieste
Originally posted by BBPD766
Originally posted by arieste
Originally posted by BBPD766

It looks fun? (raised eyebrow) While that is subjective, I see nothing innovative, challenging, or unique about a dungeon that is scripted like every other dungeon that has come before it that would make this fun; with mobs providing no deviation whether it's your first trip or 1,000th trip into it. This blueprint of entering a dungeon where the trash / boss mobs are in the exact same place they were before and do the exact same thing they did the last time to fend you off offers nothing that we haven't already played or seen for the past 10+ years in MMORPG's.

 

I get what you're saying, but can you give me an example of a game where the dungeon somehow adjusts to provide a more appropriate challenge every time you do it?

 Your question is EXACTLY my point; not what we have seen time and time again.

Well, many of the dungeons I've played that have been designed this way were indeed fun.  So yes, this dungeon looks like it is fun to play through.  And the 4 people seen playing seem to be having fun doing it.

 

Now, you imply that this type of dungeon design is not fun and a different one should be used.  So i ask again, in your experience, what dungeon design has been "fun" to you?   I take pride in playing a lot of different MMOs and exploring different mechanics, if there is a kind of fun that i'm missing out on, then I'd like to know where it is so i can try it.

I appreciate and respect the fact you enjoy dungeons that are designed this way (the same every time). For me, are they fun the10th.....20th...100th time I do them? For me, the answer is no.

Of course the four ppl playing it seem to be having fun doing it. It's new to them isn't it? Let's see if it's still as fun 6 months to a year from now when they have run it over and over and over again.

I don't imply this type of dungeon is not fun, Im clearly stating it isnt. Furthermore, in doing so, i've also made it quite clear (again) what design IS fun for me.

 I don't understand one part of what you are saying... WHY would they be running it over and over and over?  Why do you assume the dungeons are meant to run over and over, or what gain is there?

  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1696

2/13/14 11:22:50 AM#58
Originally posted by Fermian
Looks good, however, I think 4 man groups is a bad move. Just a bad dps vs healer vs tank ratio.

This isn't a pure trinity game. A 4 man group can be a mix is nearly anything. Several dps bouncing aggro with a heal or 2 for backup or a traditional trinity setup or anything else. People are not "stuck" in a spec. You can change weapons, skills, armor at any time to adjust to a group's demands.

 

Your concern only applies in pure trinity games where tanks and healers are often rare. That is not the case in ESO.

You stay sassy!

  arieste

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3308

2/13/14 11:23:32 AM#59
Originally posted by Magiknight
Originally posted by arieste

People died tons in Stormhold and Fallen Gate (early EQ2 dungeons).

 

People died plenty in TSW (it has some of the best dungeons i've played actually). 

 

People died lots in the first RIft dungeon, they it got nerfed hard  :(   (Not realm of the fae, the other side one, i forget name, fae was always easy).

 

So yeah, people do die.  Gotta be some skill involved in play.   This looks like just a solid group though.

 

 

There should be consequences for these people dying.

In all my examples - there were.   You fail, you get nothing or you have to invest more of your time trying again.  Depending on the game, there are stats and monetary penalties also.     IDK about ESO, since i didn't do these dungeons.  But i assume that if you can't kill the boss, you get no loot for the time you spent doing the dungeon, so it's basically a waste of time and money (spent on consummables, etc.).      In TSW if you died, you were out of the fight completely, that made things pretty fun (And pretty frustrating at times).

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  User Deleted
2/13/14 11:30:28 AM#60
Originally posted by arieste
Originally posted by Magiknight
Originally posted by arieste

People died tons in Stormhold and Fallen Gate (early EQ2 dungeons).

 

People died plenty in TSW (it has some of the best dungeons i've played actually). 

 

People died lots in the first RIft dungeon, they it got nerfed hard  :(   (Not realm of the fae, the other side one, i forget name, fae was always easy).

 

So yeah, people do die.  Gotta be some skill involved in play.   This looks like just a solid group though.

 

 

There should be consequences for these people dying.

In all my examples - there were.   You fail, you get nothing or you have to invest more of your time trying again.  Depending on the game, there are stats and monetary penalties also.     IDK about ESO, since i didn't do these dungeons.  But i assume that if you can't kill the boss, you get no loot for the time you spent doing the dungeon, so it's basically a waste of time and money (spent on consummables, etc.).      In TSW if you died, you were out of the fight completely, that made things pretty fun (And pretty frustrating at times).

 Gear degrades on death and you have to repair it.. you may think... oh that's nothing.  Yeah... gold doesn't explode out of trees like most games several times I had to go make some stuff to sell to afford repairs and I don't buy any items.  Skulls...I eventually succeeded at one higher level than me so don't give me crap about it being because I suck.

I don't think there are XP or other penalties for dungeons though... so other than that, IDK.

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