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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Hands on with three ESO dungeons.

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142 posts found
  Jyiiga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1016

 
OP  2/13/14 10:09:58 AM#21
Originally posted by BBPD766

It looks fun? (raised eyebrow) While that is subjective, I see nothing innovative, challenging, or unique about a dungeon that is scripted like every other dungeon that has come before it that would make this fun; with mobs providing no deviation whether it's your first trip or 1,000th trip into it. This blueprint of entering a dungeon where the trash / boss mobs are in the exact same place they were before and do the exact same thing they did the last time to fend you off offers nothing that we haven't already played or seen for the past 10+ years in MMORPG's.

...If your idea of fun is described as: "Pls provide me with no challenge and allow me (and everyone else) to run "X" dungeon for the bazillionth time until I can do it with my eyes closed so I can collect all of  the exact same loot that can possibly be gotten from inside of it, and torture me for the next 6 months to a year with this very same dungeon until the next patch is released so I can enjoy the next dungeon (and every dungeon thereafter) in the exact same fashion...." .....then yes, I suppose this is fun.

The only thing I can think of with randomized content is the Diablo series, which we can all still do with our eyes closed.

What is your solution for dungeons? Be careful how you answer that, least ye be judged for a concept that is impossible to implement.

  greenreen

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1440

2/13/14 10:15:01 AM#22
Originally posted by flguy147
Those guys will be better than 95% of the player base as in skill.  Its the guild that started Tamriel Foundry.  You dont put that much effort into a fan website unless you are a very hardcore player.

Yeah they are playing well together. Even the guy talking is calm and cool like they were aware of everything going on at all times. You didn't see them spamming skills or using a rotation. They were playing act/react and plotting moves instead of having a set thing that works.

I would seriously doubt it if this video showed their first attempt. Prove this to yourself by skipping around the video, the skills on the bar for the person recording had skill changes indicating there was some tactic testing going on.  They look like a group that were used to playing with each other. Plus, healers who open fights and do DPS are not regular things for PUGs. That's something healers do when comfortable their party aren't wild and easy to get killed.

It's like gymnastics, people make it look easy but if you try to do all the muscle tensing they are doing in your hands and feet while doing moves you will find it's not so easy to be a swan on a few inches of a balance beam.

Some of those moves I recognize and they did not play them in the same order each time. That's all I should say about that amirite.

  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 1980

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

2/13/14 10:15:14 AM#23

It looks like they're having too easy of a time, but that can be deceptive as they might be a little higher level than the dungeon, or simply skilled. Does anyone know if the dungeon is a place you can explore or is it just a linear one-way street on rails etc. and other assorted negative words for only having one way to go?

Currently playing: Divinity: Original Sin, FTL, Hearthstone and Skyrim.
Eagerly anticipating: Camelot Unchained, Elite: Dangerous, Legend of Grimrock 2 and Star Citizen.

  Flyte27

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/13/05
Posts: 2255

2/13/14 10:15:50 AM#24
Has anyone been successful with making randomly generated content in a 3D game?  Blizzard tried with Diablo 3, but it really isn't random.  Not like it was in D1 and D2.  It's a lot easier to make randomly generated content on a 2D map then on a 3D map.
  Jyiiga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1016

 
OP  2/13/14 10:18:43 AM#25
Originally posted by DrDwarf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IpLlAdf7ZQ

In Ops video first boss.. took them less than a minute to kill it   ....

 

Wow what a challenge !  

 

Second Boss..

 

wow look at those health bars .. no one gets close to dying ...

 

Third Boss

Piece of piss

 Final boss.

wow that was real tough too.

 

 

Lets go ahead and make the obvious comparisons here.

How many times did you die in Deadmines (WoW)

How many times did you die in Realm of the Fae (RIFT)

How many times did you die in The Black Talon (SWTOR)

Those are similar dungeons. Low level dungeons, designed for players that are grouping for the FIRST TIME in a new game.

Now lets take it a step further and use our brain cells. How many "cuts" does that video have in it. Do you think that was their first trip through said dungeon?

 

  DrDwarf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/08
Posts: 502

2/13/14 10:21:55 AM#26
Originally posted by Jyiiga
Originally posted by DrDwarf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IpLlAdf7ZQ

In Ops video first boss.. took them less than a minute to kill it   ....

 

Wow what a challenge !  

 

Second Boss..

 

wow look at those health bars .. no one gets close to dying ...

 

Third Boss

Piece of piss

 Final boss.

wow that was real tough too.

 

 

Lets go ahead and make the obvious comparisons here.

How many times did you die in Deadmines (WoW)

How many times did you die in Realm of the Fae (RIFT)

How many times did you die in The Black Talon (SWTOR)

Those are similar dungeons. Low level dungeons, designed for players that are grouping for the FIRST TIME in a new game.

Now lets take it a step further and use our brain cells. How many "cuts" does that video have in it. Do you think that was their first trip through said dungeon?

 

Players died all the time in Deadmines in vanilla wow.  Several times per run.

Realm of the Fae some did .. becasue of monkee specs .. hybrids they thought were cool

cant rember black talon .. i remember people dying in some early instance runs though (mainly from bugs mind)

 

you cant have it both ways..

First time group players in mmorpgs and high expectations for a set of must have features like group finder and quick travel and spammable no cool down spells and cc and all sorts of other stuff they implement in theme park mmos these days that make the gameplay a joke and require little skill or attention to detail.

 

The last boss in this vid looks a little more dangerous for this group.   

  Thornrage

Comfortably Numb

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 530

Why kill them with kindness, when I can use an axe?

2/13/14 10:22:59 AM#27
Looks like fun!
  Jyiiga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1016

 
OP  2/13/14 10:27:02 AM#28
Originally posted by DrDwarf
Originally posted by Jyiiga
Originally posted by DrDwarf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IpLlAdf7ZQ

In Ops video first boss.. took them less than a minute to kill it   ....

 

Wow what a challenge !  

 

Second Boss..

 

wow look at those health bars .. no one gets close to dying ...

 

Third Boss

Piece of piss

 Final boss.

wow that was real tough too.

 

 

Lets go ahead and make the obvious comparisons here.

How many times did you die in Deadmines (WoW)

How many times did you die in Realm of the Fae (RIFT)

How many times did you die in The Black Talon (SWTOR)

Those are similar dungeons. Low level dungeons, designed for players that are grouping for the FIRST TIME in a new game.

Now lets take it a step further and use our brain cells. How many "cuts" does that video have in it. Do you think that was their first trip through said dungeon?

 

Players died all the time in Deadmines in vanilla wow.  Several times per run.

Realm of the Fae some did .. becasue of monkee specs .. hybrids they thought were cool

cant rember black talon .. i remember people dying in some early instance runs though (mainly from bugs mind)

 

and you can expect a similar body count from this. Will it be extreme no.... it isn't suppose to be at this point.

  LisaFlexy22

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/14
Posts: 421

2/13/14 10:28:41 AM#29
Wow they had a great group - the dungeon I did kicked our group's ass to hell and back
  Jyiiga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1016

 
OP  2/13/14 10:30:13 AM#30
Originally posted by LisaFlexy22
Wow they had a great group - the dungeon I did kicked our group's ass to hell and back

  Rusque

Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1681

2/13/14 10:32:01 AM#31

The most challenging aspect of ESO is that the game doesn't explicitly state what makes a good tank so players will have to find out how to mix and match skill lines to create a tank of their own. There's nothing forcing a tank to go sword and board and stack a specific stat.

For example, maybe you want to play a self sustaining tank so you pick up a resto staff, wear heavy armor, use abilities from the nightblade siphon tree and mix those with shield spells from elemental skills and a couple aggro attacks.

Or maybe you've found evasive and shielding abilities more to your liking, so you go with light or medium armor, dual wielding with skills that make you tougher to hit and take less damage.

So it'll be important to group with players who know how to focus a build to succeed.

 

Same for healing. Maybe you don't want to be a stand in the back caster type healer. Maybe you want to use a 2h weapon and have your attacks heals the group while a couple magic type heals are reserved for emergencies.

 

  arieste

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3308

2/13/14 10:32:37 AM#32
Originally posted by BBPD766

It looks fun? (raised eyebrow) While that is subjective, I see nothing innovative, challenging, or unique about a dungeon that is scripted like every other dungeon that has come before it that would make this fun; with mobs providing no deviation whether it's your first trip or 1,000th trip into it. This blueprint of entering a dungeon where the trash / boss mobs are in the exact same place they were before and do the exact same thing they did the last time to fend you off offers nothing that we haven't already played or seen for the past 10+ years in MMORPG's.

 

I get what you're saying, but can you give me an example of a game where the dungeon somehow adjusts to provide a more appropriate challenge every time you do it?

 

I'm a huge fan of dynamic content myself, but most dungeons that i've seen that have been done with dynamic content were actually LESS difficult than their pre-scripted counterparts.

 

Plus, while the dungeons built this way always stay the same, your group makeup changes, which is what makes them different each run.

 

Give me an example of dungeons that provide the sort of challenge you're looking for?

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  DrDwarf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/08
Posts: 502

2/13/14 10:34:18 AM#33

I haven't played ESO dungeons so I will take your knowledge as fact for now.   You know a lot more about it than I do or can ascertain from a video with too many unknowns.

As a side issue.

 

What sort of XP gain are we lookign at doing these dungeon runs relative to ordinary quests or other activities that might be completed in the same timescales.  ie is it relatviely good XP if you are in an average skilled group ?

What is loot like ?

Do players substantially need to complete these dungeons to progress ?

What is the balance between XP gain in pvp and xp gain in pve at these sort of low character levels ?  ie can you level faster in pvp over a session of a few hours vs pve over the same time period ?

What were the main ghroup challenges you faced i nthese dungeons ?   ie what were players/groups  not doing that caused them to fail/die ?  

  deniter

Elite Member

Joined: 9/06/08
Posts: 589

2/13/14 10:35:25 AM#34
Originally posted by Axxar

It looks like they're having too easy of a time, but that can be deceptive as they might be a little higher level than the dungeon, or simply skilled. Does anyone know if the dungeon is a place you can explore or is it just a linear one-way street on rails etc. and other assorted negative words for only having one way to go?

This is what i'd like to know as well.

Also, are the dungeons connected to the outside world in any way, or are they just minigames inside the soloable, storydriven rpg? Can you farm those 'skill shards' all day by spamming dungeon finder, run dungeons and never leave a town?

  helot

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/06
Posts: 87

2/13/14 10:35:54 AM#35
Looks like easy noob loots.  I will hit them up.
  udon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1604

2/13/14 10:39:10 AM#36
Originally posted by DrDwarf

I haven't played ESO dungeons so I will take your knowledge as fact for now.   You know a lot more about it than I do or can ascertain from a video with too many unknowns.

As a side issue.

 

What sort of XP gain are we lookign at doing these dungeon runs relative to ordinary quests or other activities that might be completed in the same timescales.  ie is it relatviely good XP if you are in an average skilled group ?

What is loot like ?

Do players substantially need to complete these dungeons to progress ?

What is the balance between XP gain in pvp and xp gain in pve at these sort of low character levels ?  ie can you level faster in pvp over a session of a few hours vs pve over the same time period ?

What were the main ghroup challenges you faced i nthese dungeons ?   ie what were players/groups  not doing that caused them to fail/die ?  

I'm sorry but I read your post's and look at your avatar and it just makes me smile.  It fits the tone of your comments so well.

  pmcubed

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/17/05
Posts: 291

2/13/14 10:41:12 AM#37

2 reasons these guys cleared so fast/easily

1.  They are very coordinated and equip skills that fill their roll well and synergize with their team-mates

2.  The dungeon is meant for level 12-15.  If you are level 15 (with weapon swapping + more skills + higher stats) the content is substantially easier.  I can tell these guys are level 15+

It is entirely possible to constantly wipe if you don't have the levels and/or a balanced skill set among the 4 people.

  BBPD766

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/10
Posts: 99

2/13/14 10:46:50 AM#38
Originally posted by Jyiiga
Originally posted by BBPD766

It looks fun? (raised eyebrow) While that is subjective, I see nothing innovative, challenging, or unique about a dungeon that is scripted like every other dungeon that has come before it that would make this fun; with mobs providing no deviation whether it's your first trip or 1,000th trip into it. This blueprint of entering a dungeon where the trash / boss mobs are in the exact same place they were before and do the exact same thing they did the last time to fend you off offers nothing that we haven't already played or seen for the past 10+ years in MMORPG's.

...If your idea of fun is described as: "Pls provide me with no challenge and allow me (and everyone else) to run "X" dungeon for the bazillionth time until I can do it with my eyes closed so I can collect all of  the exact same loot that can possibly be gotten from inside of it, and torture me for the next 6 months to a year with this very same dungeon until the next patch is released so I can enjoy the next dungeon (and every dungeon thereafter) in the exact same fashion...." .....then yes, I suppose this is fun.

The only thing I can think of with randomized content is the Diablo series, which we can all still do with our eyes closed.

What is your solution for dungeons? Be careful how you answer that, least ye be judged for a concept that is impossible to implement.

So let me get the facts straight...you started a post stating "looks fun to me,"  with no input or indication as to why. I question the validity of that statement by providing feedback as to why this does not appear to be fun, and your retort is to challenge what I would do to fix it. Before we begin to discuss what I would do to fix it, I would ask that we not pollute this until we deal with the first issue; then we can move onto the next (what I would do to resolve this). 

That being said, does this mean you are in agreement with my post, changed your position, and don't think it's fun anymore? Or do you oppose what I have stated? I still am unclear as to why this "looks fun to you"  and further confused by what your position is after the response you provided. Be careful how you answer that, least ye be judged for not providing information to support your initial position or for changing it and being indecisive.

  paul43

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/11
Posts: 108

2/13/14 10:49:58 AM#39
Originally posted by Jyiiga 

I'm not 100% sure about anything with dungeons. Having said that... I think there is a group finder, but I don't know any specifics about it. Hopefully it does not babysit you and hold your hand to the point of auto grouping you like WoW does.

The last game I played without a dungeon finder of any sort was TSW, there I ended up sitting in Agartha and spam LFG or LFM for 20min -1h each time. Quite annoying for a dungeon that takes 10-20min.

I don't have unlimited time so I prefer to spend that dead time questing or crafting and then get a popup and a teleport, but that's just me, I respect those who prefer not to have dungeon finders. I understand the negative sides like rude people or not talking to each other etc. It's however not a big issue for me.

  Jyiiga

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Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1016

 
OP  2/13/14 10:50:10 AM#40
Originally posted by DrDwarf

I haven't played ESO dungeons so I will take your knowledge as fact for now.   You know a lot more about it than I do or can ascertain from a video with too many unknowns.

As a side issue.

 

What sort of XP gain are we lookign at doing these dungeon runs relative to ordinary quests or other activities that might be completed in the same timescales.  ie is it relatviely good XP if you are in an average skilled group ?

What is loot like ?

Do players substantially need to complete these dungeons to progress ?

What is the balance between XP gain in pvp and xp gain in pve at these sort of low character levels ?  ie can you level faster in pvp over a session of a few hours vs pve over the same time period ?

What were the main ghroup challenges you faced i nthese dungeons ?   ie what were players/groups  not doing that caused them to fail/die ?  

 

Loot - Greens, blues, crafting mats, soul gems. They failed to show boss loot several times in that video, but there are a few cases where you can pause and catch a glance at what they are picking up.

Dungeons do not appear to be required content. However, there is a guild (they speak about it briefly in the video) called The Undaunted that revolved around dungeon completion. They offer their own skill line, which you can only progress in by completing dungeons.

From what I have seen exp in PVP is slow, but similar to The Undaunted there are Alliances skill lines to unlock. 

Not knowing when to move and more importantly, not using your active block at the right time will get you smashed. Active block is one of my favorite things from ES games. It can negate damage and negate CC.

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