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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » SOE is heading in the direction of Eve (And that means open world PVP!)

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333 posts found
  Bidwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 555

 
OP  2/14/14 7:32:03 AM#81
Originally posted by SoulTrapOnSelf
Sandbox.

cheers!

  Ender4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2094

2/14/14 8:26:30 AM#82


Originally posted by Rusque
What is it with the OWPvP crowd?

You know many, actually millions and millions of us love pvp, but we don't like OWPvP. 


No you don't love PvP. I don't know what it is you love but BG and WvWvW aren't PvP, they are little mini arcade games. It is like saying you love PvP because you play League of Legends or Bloodline Champions. Both are decent games but neither are PvP games. GW2 as an example doesn't have PvP in it at all, they have some little mini game off in its own zone.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7237

2/14/14 8:30:39 AM#83
Originally posted by SoulTrapOnSelf
Sandbox.

/thread

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Kyllien

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 315

2/14/14 8:32:23 AM#84

Does anyone remember the show Sliders?  In this show they slid from Earth to Earth with each one having slightly different to very different rules.  I suspect that they will have servers with different rules.  Some may have full open PvP.  Some where all the players live peacefully.  Some with something in between.  If you gate onto a PvP server they should force you to fight your way to another gate.

  Maquiame

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/07
Posts: 626

Power without perception is spiritually useless and of no true value

2/14/14 8:38:29 AM#85

FFA PVP will be a server ruleset, I am willing to bet on this. EQN is already slated to have multiple servers,the best you will see on your common PVE server is flaggable pvp like Vanilla WoW (which imo got it right)

 

I plan on playing on an rp=pvp server myself but honestly I don't understand why you uber pvp types are not just waiting (or backing) Camelot Unchained. The game is pvp only. I think ultimately you will be disappointed by the pvp that EQN will have. I am more than willing to bet that pvp is not going to be FFA and if its there it will have the least servers dedicated to it.

Camelot Unchained is your savior not EQN trust me.

Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11474

2/14/14 8:46:49 AM#86
Originally posted by Maquiame
FFA PVP will be a server ruleset, I am willing to bet on this.
EQN is already slated to have multiple servers,the best you will see on your common PVE server is flaggable pvp like Vanilla WoW (which imo got it right)

i agree

Everquest in 1999 had several servers w different rulesets

 

there was a roundtable about this

http://www.eqnextfans.com/roundtable/26838-round-table-specialty-servers

https://forums.station.sony.com/everquestnext/index.php?threads/specialty-server-types-question-inside.214/

SOE EQN response

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XI0wVLMeLc

 

  Mors.Magne

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/02/07
Posts: 1428

2/14/14 8:51:51 AM#87

We'll have to wait-and-see because 'PvP' covers a broad range of gaming styles (quick twitch to long-term planning / strategy). It can also be done really well or really badly.

 

PvP has an advantage over PvE because it's generally less repetitive in the longer term. However, one day AI should advance to the stage where PvE is too similar to PvP to tell the difference.

 

I suspect that the introduction of PvP is code for 'our PvE is repetitive and crap'. I should know about these things because I'm a 'spin doctor' in real life.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19065

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

2/14/14 9:38:53 AM#88
Originally posted by Bidwood
Originally posted by SoulTrapOnSelf
Sandbox.

cheers!

What exactly does that point to.  He helped lead the creation of one of the most recognized sandbox style MMORPG's out there, SWG, and it never had FFA PVP as I understand it.

Designing a MMO around PVP like EVE does is entirely different than offering FFA servers of basically PVE game, which is what EQ1/2 and most other titles have.

I'm not sure which way he's going to go with this, but I suspect what he admires about EVE is more about the interdependent economy (with crafted gear always being some of the most useful) and other facets of player involvement such as territorial control, and less about the possibility of killing folks most anywhere which EVE actually permits. (just waiting for ganking in stations to be rolled out)

My guess is he'll create a hybrid world, where certain areas are totally safe, and a separate area for territorial control and FFA PVP for those willing to venture into it.

 

"Someone once told me, there is always someone more powerful than you." - Nicola [Bunraku]
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  KaitarBesh

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/08
Posts: 220

2/14/14 9:40:10 AM#89
Originally posted by Bidwood
Originally posted by Storm_Cloud

Calm down guys, this is really simple.

He will have open world pvp but not in EQnext (unless its on pvp servers). His open world PvP will be for his new zombie apocalypse game. Just like they have open world pvp in DayZ, Rust etc...

He's probably laughing his head off at all the trolls trying to justify his comments to mean EQN.

Guys, think zombies, DayZ, Rust etc... etc... and you are 100% right!

 

"Calm down" is right. I have my theories, but no need for anyone to get fired up over them. Do my theories feel threatening because they could be true? Everybody take a deep breath...

I'm not trolling. I think I'm actually playing into SOE's marketing comms strategy, which seems to be to get people to come to their own conclusions about the PVP based on nuggets of info here and there. As opposed to being flabbergasted when the official announcement comes out. But it looks like that's going to happen anyway.

I was right about this coming to PS4 despite a ton of scepticism and similar counter-arguments. (Which really boiled down to "I don't want that, and it's not how things have been done before, therefore SOE would never be stupid enough to do that.")

BTW, where did we hear his new IP would be a zombie apocalypse game? Is that the one that will appeal to SWG Players? I like the sound of this...

 

No one thought PS2 would be anything but a PVP oriented game. Big difference there. EQ is primarily and will always be primarily a fantasy based mmoRPG. Last three letters there, you should learn what they mean, because they don't mean teabagging douche PVP FFA gankfest. There's DAYZ for that.

  KaitarBesh

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/08
Posts: 220

2/14/14 9:41:36 AM#90
Originally posted by Maquiame

FFA PVP will be a server ruleset, I am willing to bet on this. EQN is already slated to have multiple servers,the best you will see on your common PVE server is flaggable pvp like Vanilla WoW (which imo got it right)

 

I plan on playing on an rp=pvp server myself but honestly I don't understand why you uber pvp types are not just waiting (or backing) Camelot Unchained. The game is pvp only. I think ultimately you will be disappointed by the pvp that EQN will have. I am more than willing to bet that pvp is not going to be FFA and if its there it will have the least servers dedicated to it.

Camelot Unchained is your savior not EQN trust me.

Yep, this right there.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4730

2/14/14 9:51:10 AM#91
Surefire path to failure.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Bidwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 555

 
OP  2/14/14 4:06:19 PM#92
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Bidwood
Originally posted by SoulTrapOnSelf
Sandbox.

cheers!

What exactly does that point to.  He helped lead the creation of one of the most recognized sandbox style MMORPG's out there, SWG, and it never had FFA PVP as I understand it.

Designing a MMO around PVP like EVE does is entirely different than offering FFA servers of basically PVE game, which is what EQ1/2 and most other titles have.

I'm not sure which way he's going to go with this, but I suspect what he admires about EVE is more about the interdependent economy (with crafted gear always being some of the most useful) and other facets of player involvement such as territorial control, and less about the possibility of killing folks most anywhere which EVE actually permits. (just waiting for ganking in stations to be rolled out)

My guess is he'll create a hybrid world, where certain areas are totally safe, and a separate area for territorial control and FFA PVP for those willing to venture into it.

 

I'm also expecting a "hybrid" world in the sense that some areas are "safer" than others. Like Eve with high-security zones where attacking and killing another player is suicide - but possible.

And zones on the 'frontier' which are totally unprotected. The best resources are there. And the only way to make it safe is to build your own town and pay for various levels of protection like in the safe 'core area'.

If PVPers are really a minority, the PVE-only crowd will band together and build out huge kingdoms with top tier protection.

SOE could monetize the hell out of this.

  Iczer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/10/04
Posts: 104

I want a world in a sandbox ... not a theme park!

2/14/14 4:32:06 PM#93
Originally posted by Fendel84M

Why do PvPers have a problem with there being separate servers for open PvP and consensual PvP? Do they really just like to gank people who don't want to fight until they quit?

SoE is too smart to go with forced PvP. There will be PvP servers though I am sure. I would bet good money on PvP not being forced.

Even Richard Garriot did away with that in SOTA even though that was something he Kickstarted with. There's simply no reason to not make PvP optional other than to greif PvEers.

I say all of these comments coming from a 7 year run in EVE online and for the majority of that time I was a PVPer ... soloing, looking for fair fights and also ganking / tricking innocents into fights that were definitely unfair. The bottom line with the trickery was their lack of understanding of how the game works. IMO Its not a matter of forced pvp if the game follows a similar design as EVE.

Point of note is that EVE does in fact have open world pvp but it is far from forced. It is your choice to venture into those dangerous systems of the universe where you could be attacked. If you don't want to get attacked with ease, stick to the areas. The same was true in UO back in the day with its guard zones in towns. If you attacked someone in the guard zone an NPC guard would immediately appear and kill you in one shot. So to combat the idea of forced pvp there should be varied degrees of game supplied protection.

EVE also has real consequences for pvp actions in those systems that are under police protection. If you attack someone in a protected area of space the NPC cops will be on  you fast and destroy your ship. Sure it is possible to game the system and still get away with a kill from this but you will pay for it. So to even out the risk of attacking someone in a place where you could pay for it with your life there should be heavy consequences and a way to track that behavior longer term on your character. EVE has this in your security status, if it goes too low you are flagged for all to see as attackable as a consequence. UO had the system where if you killed too many innocent people in a short time you became red and thus attackable to anyone.

Lastly is that if you piss off the wrong person in EVE online it can come back to bite you in the ass real bad. EVE has systems built in that let you extract revenge on an individual or corporation that has done you wrong in the form of bounties and war declarations. You can also extract your own revenge in one form or another without special game mechanics to support it. Power to the players!!! I feel a game should provide the players with some way to deal with this type of behavior.

If EQN follows any of the lessons learned from EVE online and its history of handling both heavy PVPers and non pvpers I feel it will go a long way and have an amazing run.

 

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7237

2/14/14 4:36:17 PM#94
Guilds building guild keeps, on open world, guild territory controlled land.  Alliances building cites!

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  laserit

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1433

Confusius say: Man who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with stinky finger

2/14/14 4:42:18 PM#95
Originally posted by bcbully
Guilds building guild keeps, on open world, guild territory controlled land.  Alliances building cites!

Imagine if the design of your keep and how thick you made the walls mattered.

Zenimax kicked my dog

  evilized

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 542

2/14/14 4:51:27 PM#96

Here's an interesting thought...

 

The ability to enable server-wide pvp based on the server population's actions. If enough people want it then the server can do "X" to make it happen.

 

Also in response to the guy that said nothing has been mentioned; I am pretty sure Georgeson said something about being able to server-hop freely in Next in one of his many interviews from SOELive. He was explaining how every server will be different because of the way that the story unfolds on each server will be different due to the very nature of storybricks and there being no predictable outcomes for each major story-related event. The Sliders reference made a few posts up is a pretty good analogy.

 

On the topic of players being too irresponsible to handle open pvp; that's not true. There will always be irresponsible people in any large group but there will also be people that take up the slack. If PK'ing becomes a problem then PKK guilds will spring up. I remember a time in UO just after T2A when there were so many guilds actively policing the shard that it was almost impossible for a red to go anywhere outside of their own tiny red village without being killed and camped. Self policing works when it is allowed.

  Knytta

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/03/07
Posts: 327

2/14/14 4:56:12 PM#97
Originally posted by Bidwood

I'm also expecting a "hybrid" world in the sense that some areas are "safer" than others. Like Eve with high-security zones where attacking and killing another player is suicide - but possible.

And zones on the 'frontier' which are totally unprotected. The best resources are there. And the only way to make

Forcing people to play a game exactly the way you want them to play is apparently very important to you.

Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.

He who can describe the flame does not burn.

Petrarca

  evilized

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 542

2/14/14 5:11:07 PM#98
Originally posted by Knytta
Originally posted by Bidwood

I'm also expecting a "hybrid" world in the sense that some areas are "safer" than others. Like Eve with high-security zones where attacking and killing another player is suicide - but possible.

And zones on the 'frontier' which are totally unprotected. The best resources are there. And the only way to make

Forcing people to play a game exactly the way you want them to play is apparently very important to you.

That's exactly it though, Knytta... There is no forcing anybody to do anything in a sandbox, open pvp or not. All options are available in one package. You can pvp if you'd like or you can stick to PvE / crafting or just hanging out with friends and never have to worry about being attacked by another player.

 

If anyone is having any trouble understanding what is being discussed I would recommend taking a few minutes and reading up on Ultima Online in the late 90's/early 2000's and SWG. Both of these games have been brought up before in this thread but they are what any real "next gen" mmo should be looking at and learning from moving forward. Please note that I am not saying these games need to be copied, instead they need to be built on and evolved into something almost totally new.

 

Freedom came to The Colonies in 1776, hopefully in 2014 freedom will also come to MMORPG's.

  Bidwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 555

 
OP  2/14/14 5:31:51 PM#99
Originally posted by Iczer
Originally posted by Fendel84M

Why do PvPers have a problem with there being separate servers for open PvP and consensual PvP? Do they really just like to gank people who don't want to fight until they quit?

SoE is too smart to go with forced PvP. There will be PvP servers though I am sure. I would bet good money on PvP not being forced.

Even Richard Garriot did away with that in SOTA even though that was something he Kickstarted with. There's simply no reason to not make PvP optional other than to greif PvEers.

I say all of these comments coming from a 7 year run in EVE online and for the majority of that time I was a PVPer ... soloing, looking for fair fights and also ganking / tricking innocents into fights that were definitely unfair. The bottom line with the trickery was their lack of understanding of how the game works. IMO Its not a matter of forced pvp if the game follows a similar design as EVE.

Point of note is that EVE does in fact have open world pvp but it is far from forced. It is your choice to venture into those dangerous systems of the universe where you could be attacked. If you don't want to get attacked with ease, stick to the areas. The same was true in UO back in the day with its guard zones in towns. If you attacked someone in the guard zone an NPC guard would immediately appear and kill you in one shot. So to combat the idea of forced pvp there should be varied degrees of game supplied protection.

EVE also has real consequences for pvp actions in those systems that are under police protection. If you attack someone in a protected area of space the NPC cops will be on  you fast and destroy your ship. Sure it is possible to game the system and still get away with a kill from this but you will pay for it. So to even out the risk of attacking someone in a place where you could pay for it with your life there should be heavy consequences and a way to track that behavior longer term on your character. EVE has this in your security status, if it goes too low you are flagged for all to see as attackable as a consequence. UO had the system where if you killed too many innocent people in a short time you became red and thus attackable to anyone.

Lastly is that if you piss off the wrong person in EVE online it can come back to bite you in the ass real bad. EVE has systems built in that let you extract revenge on an individual or corporation that has done you wrong in the form of bounties and war declarations. You can also extract your own revenge in one form or another without special game mechanics to support it. Power to the players!!! I feel a game should provide the players with some way to deal with this type of behavior.

If EQN follows any of the lessons learned from EVE online and its history of handling both heavy PVPers and non pvpers I feel it will go a long way and have an amazing run.

 

I like the way you think.

  evilized

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 542

2/14/14 6:43:07 PM#100
Originally posted by Bidwood
Originally posted by Iczer
Originally posted by Fendel84M

Why do PvPers have a problem with there being separate servers for open PvP and consensual PvP? Do they really just like to gank people who don't want to fight until they quit?

SoE is too smart to go with forced PvP. There will be PvP servers though I am sure. I would bet good money on PvP not being forced.

Even Richard Garriot did away with that in SOTA even though that was something he Kickstarted with. There's simply no reason to not make PvP optional other than to greif PvEers.

I say all of these comments coming from a 7 year run in EVE online and for the majority of that time I was a PVPer ... soloing, looking for fair fights and also ganking / tricking innocents into fights that were definitely unfair. The bottom line with the trickery was their lack of understanding of how the game works. IMO Its not a matter of forced pvp if the game follows a similar design as EVE.

Point of note is that EVE does in fact have open world pvp but it is far from forced. It is your choice to venture into those dangerous systems of the universe where you could be attacked. If you don't want to get attacked with ease, stick to the areas. The same was true in UO back in the day with its guard zones in towns. If you attacked someone in the guard zone an NPC guard would immediately appear and kill you in one shot. So to combat the idea of forced pvp there should be varied degrees of game supplied protection.

EVE also has real consequences for pvp actions in those systems that are under police protection. If you attack someone in a protected area of space the NPC cops will be on  you fast and destroy your ship. Sure it is possible to game the system and still get away with a kill from this but you will pay for it. So to even out the risk of attacking someone in a place where you could pay for it with your life there should be heavy consequences and a way to track that behavior longer term on your character. EVE has this in your security status, if it goes too low you are flagged for all to see as attackable as a consequence. UO had the system where if you killed too many innocent people in a short time you became red and thus attackable to anyone.

Lastly is that if you piss off the wrong person in EVE online it can come back to bite you in the ass real bad. EVE has systems built in that let you extract revenge on an individual or corporation that has done you wrong in the form of bounties and war declarations. You can also extract your own revenge in one form or another without special game mechanics to support it. Power to the players!!! I feel a game should provide the players with some way to deal with this type of behavior.

If EQN follows any of the lessons learned from EVE online and its history of handling both heavy PVPers and non pvpers I feel it will go a long way and have an amazing run.

 

I like the way you think.

He pretty much summed up my thoughts on the subject.

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