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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Suspicious of all the bad reviews...

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205 posts found
  reeereee

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 769

2/10/14 11:03:54 PM#61
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by reeereee

Originally posted by baphamet  

Originally posted by rodingo Sure it could be some conspiracy that people are being paid to badmouth the game.  However, I think the more realistic approach is that they are just saying what they feel about the game.
  or maybe they are scared of the backlash they will get from their readers by saying anything positive about the game? writers will say whatever they need to say to get people to read their articles or subscribe to their youtube channels. i mean, if i took these "reviews" to heart, i would think that ESO was one of the worst mmo's ever created and i know that isn't true so something isn't right here.
Why are the reviewers suddenly now afraid of a backlash for giving good reviews when it never stopped them before with gw2, SWTOR, or even AoC?  How exactly would giving a bad or at least non-positive review be edgy or provocative and drive site traffic if everyone else is saying the same thing? 

 

 

Do you seriously believe all the reviewers were playing ESO and were like:

 

"This game is awesome!  Now I'll need to give it a terrible review so I can get more hits."


 

did you not see the backlash some of these same writers got when they praised SWTOR?

by the way, i like the game but could argue negative points about it if it meant more money in my pocket, i don't really see your point.

 

So they went on to heap endless praise on gw2 because of all the backlash they got from praising SWTOR, it's so clear now.   Thought, I wouldn't be shocked if EA had paid for good reviews for SWTOR.

 

I overall found the low level content solidly mediocre, I could have found a way to write a very positive or very negative review had I wanted to.  Both the reviews on this site are fairly middle of the road sighting positives and negatives since neither are too far from my own experience I don't ascribe them any ill intent. 

 

I'll admit if I had really liked the game I might be asking some of the same questions and would have been far more likely to believe than Zenimax had simply not chosen to pay for favorable reviews like previous games rather than reviewers were tilting their reviews thinking it would get them more hits.  I'm inclined to believe if all the media reviews are coming back negative and you're the one guy going positive that's going to get you a lot more hits as you're not just parroting what everyone else is saying.

  Keldien

Novice Member

Joined: 7/06/05
Posts: 87

2/10/14 11:05:35 PM#62

I think a lot of you are missing the OP's point.

The gaming press has had a huge problem for the longest time about bending over backward to find nice things to say about every (AAA) game that's launched.  I don't recall many previews bringing up the atrocious chat system of DCUO, nor the repetitive nature of its end-game at the time of launch nor a million other issues that were readily identifiable by testers.  I don't recall many previewers making a fuss over not seeing city sieges tested in beta for WAR - to my memory, it was done once - even though it was major feature; I also don't remember much complaining by the game journalists, pre-launch, about the fact that everything out of Paul Barnett's mouth was a lie, even though we could clearly see that from testing.

I could go on, but journalists have been extremely lenient with every other game put out by a major company.  You can justify it however you'd like, or you can make wild comparisons about smoke-filled rooms and conspiracies if it makes you feel witty, but it is odd and it is worth pointing out.  The OP isn't talking about the negativity of these forums, because nothing else exists here.  He is talking strictly about the gaming press.

Frankly, though, I agree with a previous poster that it's likely just that they've gotten so much crap for the positive reviews that they're just playing it safe to regain a bit of trust.  And if that really is the case, then good for them - as long as it doesn't turn into a witch hunt and crucifixion for the sake of it; but if there are issues with ESO, then they need to be pointed out.

It also doesn't help that Zenimax is keeping a draconian NDA in place, and severely limiting the scope of testing and press previews.

  Hellidol

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 388

2/10/14 11:08:30 PM#63
Originally posted by Dulu

Been on the MMO scene for a very long time, and I've seen companies like MMORPG.com and other review sites suck the **** of games that have been terrible, just because they have big names.

 

Age of Conan, Warhammer and Guild Wars 2 being the most notable. Anyone who was an MMO veteran when these games were releasing probably remembers thinking these games would be the next WoW, or the next Jesus Christ, etc. That's what the review companies were spouting.

 

And then you actually got to play the games... and yeah, we know the history.

 

My point is, why is it all of a sudden a game like ESO, which I thoroughly enjoy and think is so much better than anything that has released in years, is getting such terrible reviews, while games which almost no one enjoyed - received such AWESOME reviews?

 

What's going on? Did Zenimax not pay someone? Is this an organized plot by a competitor? I hate to be the conspiracy theory guy, but I don't understand. Or, is this just some sort of meme which has spread across the internet like wildfire, or doge? "ESO sucks, not worth $15, armor painted on, blah blah blah" (Anyone else notice the reviews all use the exact same terminology? I had never heard anyone say "armor painted on" before ESO, yet I've heard it in EVERY-SINGLE-REVIEW!)

 

I'm a skeptic, and I think some BS is going on..

it is simple, if they dont donate or support the media in a form then they get bad mouth by them. This is old news and typical of the media in the U.S. Just play the game you will love it and then you dont have to read on the bs put downs from the media.

  the420kid

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/19/05
Posts: 429

2/10/14 11:08:57 PM#64
dont let other people tell you what you like..  get into the next stree test they are more than happy to give out keys and try it for yourself.  After hiting lvl 10 and trying alliance war I am 100% on board and have pre-ordered was awsome.  Check it out and then hate it or get it :P
  ihaveabeard

Novice Member

Joined: 10/20/05
Posts: 56

2/10/14 11:12:37 PM#65
Originally posted by Keldien

The gaming press has had a huge problem for the longest time about bending over backward to find nice things to say about every (AAA) game that's launched.

 

That is not a new thing, gamers have been complaining about paid reviewers since the early mid 2000s. The gaming press never had a problem with these complaints before, so it's a bit odd for them to start caring about their credibility now. If there is a conspiracy here, it's more likely that Bethesda/Zenimax simply didn't pay the press enough or at all for their reviews, so now they can be honest with their opinions. Maybe for the first time in their careers.

  Kopogero

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/27/09
Posts: 750

2/10/14 11:14:58 PM#66

Do yourself a favor and see the state of any new MMO year from launch. I have not spent a dime on any new MMO for 3 years and 1 month and I never felt better. If I ever spend $ on a MMORPG it must have surplus playerbase and positive reviews years from launch.

It is the reason why WOW has took the most of my $ over the last decade. WOW and EVE are the only 2 MMORPG's that have been going into the right direction...

We the gamers are the only hope for the future of this genre and how we choose to spend our $. I would again returned to WOW or start EVE if they were not ancient and on the decline with some of their bad decisions. So yea, come back here mid April 2015 and you'll know if ESO is worth your $ or not.

Problem with all these new MMORPG's is the fact there is too much NDA, lack of demos or open betas for players to actually know what they getting themself into and my guess its because they want to hide the negative reviews, because they are the ones who truly know what their game is all about and in the process hurting themself from gaining sufficient playerbase for a solid launch. IP itself means nothing to me...

 

Starcraft aka wise/04. SWG/UO aka Wise HeRo, Light Jedi Knight pre-cu (Bria)

  Nhoj1983

Novice Member

Joined: 9/12/08
Posts: 184

2/10/14 11:41:31 PM#67

Honestly I think it simply comes down to a couple things.  It's not that people aren't being paid it's A because of how dark their running (NDA still up and it's less than two months out without plans for an open beta) and B because it's not just MMO journalists playing the thing. 

 

It's only natural to be suspicious of a game that is so set upon not supplying us with crucial information.  Anyone hear anything solid about the current end game?  No?  I thought not.  The first few levels are supposedly not all that amazing and has a bit more hand holding than most elder scrolls fans want.  I hear that it get's better post 10 but 95% of the journalists who played the game didn't get that far.  Okay I'll add another point... they did this with some pretty empty servers.  I hear over and over again... "it feels empty".  We don't know just how well they've implemented the multiplayer aspect as of yet. 

 

The second reason is simply there are a lot of elder scroll fans writing about this without any real understanding of how mmos work... they're looking for a skyrim or oblivion experience beyond setting and mechanics and not getting exactly what they wanted.  Many are console fans primarily and haven't ever played an mmo seriously in their life.  They don't understand a concept such as a sub and that makes them even more likely to set unrealistic expectations and when their expectations aren't met they ask... "why not just play skyrim?"  They may not care about the multiplayer aspect and hence when they can't casually kill an npc on a whim it's an issue and again this at least partially because the devs don't shove the benefits of said shared adventuring in their face early either.

 

If I were to say anyone is to blame it's zenimax for not letting people write about their experiences let alone give us enough concrete info to really see the shape of the game as it is at launch.  If people knew more they'd likely be less spooked.  We're basically left asking "why does this game have a sub again?" until we know more we simply put can't take all this with less than a heavy dose of salt but there will be many who will take these previews more seriously than that.  Bad Bethesda... very bad Bethesda... this isn't how you run the hype train just before the launch of an mmo. 

  Zairu

Novice Member

Joined: 1/09/09
Posts: 493

Yes, this is a personal attack.

2/10/14 11:42:21 PM#68
Originally posted by Dulu

 

 

Anyone else notice the reviews all use the exact same terminology? I had never heard anyone say "armor painted on" before ESO

 

 

 

during my beta, while talking about the flaws with my roomate i told him-

'it lookes like my robes are just painted on'.

 

it is a common term and you see it all over the ESO reviews because it is true.

 

 

i had too many log-in issues to really test the game much (only got to lvl 5)but my opinion is -

 

as an mmo - has a clean hud and manual targeting. both are very big deals to me. worth trying.

 

as a TES game - fails. i would wonder why they even used TES but i already know that the answer is $.

  gestalt11

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 6187

2/11/14 12:03:23 AM#69

Most "reviewers" do not actually review things, rather they simply regurgitate they hype of a thing.  If you follow the hype of the game you will see that it follows quite closely. 

 

There was always a large amount of skepticism that TESO can be true to an elder scrolls game.  There was a good reason behind this, but it affected the hype of the game.

 

"Reviewers" are, for the most part, robotic sheep and they just puked this up.  In the process of puking it up they latch on to some valid concerns in the case of this game or rabidly ignore things in the case of other ones.  When the hype goes one way they must ignore these things as it contradicts the hype and they are utter slaves to hype. 

 

The reason is simple; their entire endeavor IS hype.  It is a fait accompli.

  spidii

Novice Member

Joined: 10/16/07
Posts: 68

2/11/14 12:14:57 AM#70

The reviews aren't being completely negative from what I've seen and are raising very legitimate concerns. We've all been stung many times within the MMO genre by very promising games that end up being a let down. It's great that you yourself are having a good time and there will be many like you, but there are also quite a few of us that have an opposing view. The game isn't satisfying for many people, the combat doesn't feel right and with only 6 skills doesn't feel very deep either.

 

Just saying that these negative reviews aren't without warrant. Be open minded and don't get defensive when something you like isn't liked by others. The game is simply rubbing a lot of people the wrong way. I hope you enjoy it and I'm sure at the very least it will have a niche community but overall the response I've seen from most reciprocates the feelings of the reviewers you are talking about. 

 

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 6411

2/11/14 12:18:05 AM#71
Originally posted by the420kid
dont let other people tell you what you like..  get into the next stree test they are more than happy to give out keys and try it for yourself.  After hiting lvl 10 and trying alliance war I am 100% on board and have pre-ordered was awsome.  Check it out and then hate it or get it :P

People make up their own mind if they like a game or not already.

Nobody decides to like a game solely because someone tells them they should, so "don't let other people tell you what you like" is like saying "don't let other people chew your food". 

Seriously, this advice is unneeded - players have this covered.

 

 

 

  gestalt11

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 6187

2/11/14 1:15:28 AM#72
Originally posted by spidii

The reviews aren't being completely negative from what I've seen and are raising very legitimate concerns. We've all been stung many times within the MMO genre by very promising games that end up being a let down. It's great that you yourself are having a good time and there will be many like you, but there are also quite a few of us that have an opposing view. The game isn't satisfying for many people, the combat doesn't feel right and with only 6 skills doesn't feel very deep either.

 

Just saying that these negative reviews aren't without warrant. Be open minded and don't get defensive when something you like isn't liked by others. The game is simply rubbing a lot of people the wrong way. I hope you enjoy it and I'm sure at the very least it will have a niche community but overall the response I've seen from most reciprocates the feelings of the reviewers you are talking about. 

 

They aren't without warrant?  I wouldn't put it that way.  That implies they are being analytical or objective.  The game does have flaws and they are pretty obvious.  But so did a host of other games and they get ignored.

 

These guys didn't suddenly become circumspect after going on a 5 year drunken binge.  No they will have another drunken binge when some other thing they are in love with gets put into Beta.  For whatever reason a large number of people were never pre-seduced by TESO.  If they had been they would sweep all these things under the rug.

 

What we are basically seeing is reviews that are closer to fair DESPITE the media's complete inability to be fair or circumspect or anywhere  close to objective or anything of but drooling fools who all repeat what each other says.

 

The trick here is that there is really nothing wrong with the TESO reviews.  The point out some good things and some bad things.  What is wrong is 90% of other reviews where they go back to their normal mode of behavior and spout out drivel or flat out lies.

  Darkcrystal

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/10
Posts: 804

2/11/14 1:18:15 AM#73
Originally posted by Hellidol
Originally posted by Dulu

Been on the MMO scene for a very long time, and I've seen companies like MMORPG.com and other review sites suck the **** of games that have been terrible, just because they have big names.

 

Age of Conan, Warhammer and Guild Wars 2 being the most notable. Anyone who was an MMO veteran when these games were releasing probably remembers thinking these games would be the next WoW, or the next Jesus Christ, etc. That's what the review companies were spouting.

 

And then you actually got to play the games... and yeah, we know the history.

 

My point is, why is it all of a sudden a game like ESO, which I thoroughly enjoy and think is so much better than anything that has released in years, is getting such terrible reviews, while games which almost no one enjoyed - received such AWESOME reviews?

 

What's going on? Did Zenimax not pay someone? Is this an organized plot by a competitor? I hate to be the conspiracy theory guy, but I don't understand. Or, is this just some sort of meme which has spread across the internet like wildfire, or doge? "ESO sucks, not worth $15, armor painted on, blah blah blah" (Anyone else notice the reviews all use the exact same terminology? I had never heard anyone say "armor painted on" before ESO, yet I've heard it in EVERY-SINGLE-REVIEW!)

 

I'm a skeptic, and I think some BS is going on..

it is simple, if they dont donate or support the media in a form then they get bad mouth by them. This is old news and typical of the media in the U.S. Just play the game you will love it and then you dont have to read on the bs put downs from the media.

This is not just the US, this is every where but yes media ruin everything, no matter where it is, and what it is.. This site people love to bash every game  on the market, no matter what, look at every game, for years I have said this.... 

  Darkcrystal

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/10
Posts: 804

2/11/14 1:26:54 AM#74
Originally posted by psiic

I have see so called press lie their asses off about a piece of shit game to get us to buy it, but this is the first time I've seen press lying their asses off about a great game to try and get us not to buy it.

 

Frankly I think it is time for game devs to start re-evaluating who truly deserves to be considered press.

 

I think Angry Joe really states the real issue here. The ENTITLED mentality. 

 

Basically he states...

If ESO was a FREE game with this awesome engine, fantastic combat, superior graphics, and huge huge world, this would be the BEST game EVER!!

But because it's not FREE it sucks....

 

This whole entitled mentality that has become so prevalent  really pisses me off.

 

ESO is costing them a rather sizable investment, to provide a quality staff, and NOT to pink slip the whole dev team right after launch like EVERY F2P game has done costs money.

If you do not like it then go play one of the 100's of F2P games that you are bored with in two weeks, or raising hell because they have no support staff and you have to wait weeks to get an email answered.

Tons of us are excited over ESO and even more excited to be getting back to a sub based model so we do not have to put up with gold spammers, botters, hackers, chat spamming idiots, and entitled kiddies.

 

Finally someone said it, AMEN brother!!

  Darkcrystal

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/10
Posts: 804

2/11/14 1:29:13 AM#75
Originally posted by Tokken

 


Originally posted by Dulu
Been on the MMO scene for a very long time, and I've seen companies like MMORPG.com and other review sites suck the **** of games that have been terrible, just because they have big names.

 

 

Age of Conan, Warhammer and Guild Wars 2 being the most notable. Anyone who was an MMO veteran when these games were releasing probably remembers thinking these games would be the next WoW, or the next Jesus Christ, etc. That's what the review companies were spouting.

 

And then you actually got to play the games... and yeah, we know the history.

 

My point is, why is it all of a sudden a game like ESO, which I thoroughly enjoy and think is so much better than anything that has released in years, is getting such terrible reviews, while games which almost no one enjoyed - received such AWESOME reviews?

 

What's going on? Did Zenimax not pay someone? Is this an organized plot by a competitor? I hate to be the conspiracy theory guy, but I don't understand. Or, is this just some sort of meme which has spread across the internet like wildfire, or doge? "ESO sucks, not worth $15, armor painted on, blah blah blah" (Anyone else notice the reviews all use the exact same terminology? I had never heard anyone say "armor painted on" before ESO, yet I've heard it in EVERY-SINGLE-REVIEW!)

 

I'm a skeptic, and I think some BS is going on..


 


You see a pattern? How can so many reviews be wrong? I'm buying the game... but if there are so many reviews that trash the game, there must be something to it.

But how many times, have we seen reviews that were good and the game was trash... hmmmmm  Maybe people who review games are retarded??? This could be,  I been in the industry for to long, and see my fair share of morons..

  reeereee

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 769

2/11/14 1:38:57 AM#76
Originally posted by Darkcrystal
Originally posted by Hellidol
Originally posted by Dulu

Been on the MMO scene for a very long time, and I've seen companies like MMORPG.com and other review sites suck the **** of games that have been terrible, just because they have big names.

 

Age of Conan, Warhammer and Guild Wars 2 being the most notable. Anyone who was an MMO veteran when these games were releasing probably remembers thinking these games would be the next WoW, or the next Jesus Christ, etc. That's what the review companies were spouting.

 

And then you actually got to play the games... and yeah, we know the history.

 

My point is, why is it all of a sudden a game like ESO, which I thoroughly enjoy and think is so much better than anything that has released in years, is getting such terrible reviews, while games which almost no one enjoyed - received such AWESOME reviews?

 

What's going on? Did Zenimax not pay someone? Is this an organized plot by a competitor? I hate to be the conspiracy theory guy, but I don't understand. Or, is this just some sort of meme which has spread across the internet like wildfire, or doge? "ESO sucks, not worth $15, armor painted on, blah blah blah" (Anyone else notice the reviews all use the exact same terminology? I had never heard anyone say "armor painted on" before ESO, yet I've heard it in EVERY-SINGLE-REVIEW!)

 

I'm a skeptic, and I think some BS is going on..

it is simple, if they dont donate or support the media in a form then they get bad mouth by them. This is old news and typical of the media in the U.S. Just play the game you will love it and then you dont have to read on the bs put downs from the media.

This is not just the US, this is every where but yes media ruin everything, no matter where it is, and what it is.. This site people love to bash every game  on the market, no matter what, look at every game, for years I have said this.... 

Funny, did you not bother visiting this site in 2012?  People were heaping endless praise onto gw2 in the year leading up to it's launch gushing on and on about how innovative it was and how it would change everything in the mmo industry.  Now for once people are being realistic about a new mmo and what do we hear "Oh there is just nothing but negativity on this site!"

 

it's the like the poster above this one pointed out, for once the media actually does it's job and points out the good and the bad rather than just the good like for every other AAA in the last 5 years and the ESO fans are going crazy about how their MMO of choice is being unfairly discriminated against because the media won't just gloss over the downside of the game like they did for SWTOR/AoC/gw2/ect.

  jesad

Novice Member

Joined: 9/30/06
Posts: 733

Think of something witty and pretend that I typed it in this spot :)

2/11/14 1:39:22 AM#77

I honestly haven't seen a review that I thought really said anything other than "I'm lost and I really don't know what to say".  Bottom line, you can not test and review a game to the extent that 95% of these guys are trying to pretend they are doing with as little time to play it as they have been given. For this reason I can only deduce that most of them are just coming up with things to say to make them seem like they know what they are talking about while simultaneously providing the rest of the world (those not in the beta that is) with a solid look into how the game looks and plays.

Marketing genius every step of the way with these guys so far.  Honestly its been kind of fun to watch.  And if they have been doing this stuff on purpose, quite impressive.

 

  MoarDots

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 41

2/11/14 1:41:46 AM#78
Originally posted by Dulu

Been on the MMO scene for a very long time, and I've seen companies like MMORPG.com and other review sites suck the **** of games that have been terrible, just because they have big names.

 

Age of Conan, Warhammer and Guild Wars 2 being the most notable. Anyone who was an MMO veteran when these games were releasing probably remembers thinking these games would be the next WoW, or the next Jesus Christ, etc. That's what the review companies were spouting.

 

And then you actually got to play the games... and yeah, we know the history.

 

My point is, why is it all of a sudden a game like ESO, which I thoroughly enjoy and think is so much better than anything that has released in years, is getting such terrible reviews, while games which almost no one enjoyed - received such AWESOME reviews?

 

What's going on? Did Zenimax not pay someone? Is this an organized plot by a competitor? I hate to be the conspiracy theory guy, but I don't understand. Or, is this just some sort of meme which has spread across the internet like wildfire, or doge? "ESO sucks, not worth $15, armor painted on, blah blah blah" (Anyone else notice the reviews all use the exact same terminology? I had never heard anyone say "armor painted on" before ESO, yet I've heard it in EVERY-SINGLE-REVIEW!)

 

I'm a skeptic, and I think some BS is going on..

 

The rest is history...what? I still log on to GW2 every now and then and everywhere I go there is people. It's still the most popular game on MMORPG's front page. It's a solid game. And GW2 had its fair share of getting blasted by Guild Wars fans, PvP fans, and people who expected a different game based on the Devs' promises pre-launch.

I also enjoyed TESO as a MMORPG. But honestly, it offered nothing "special" that stood out from the plethora of other MMORPGs in years past. I have seen many TES fans seriously disappointed by TESO because of core things from the single player games that were not ported to TESO. I don't think calling it a MMORPG is acceptable to gloss over certain game details that loyal TES fans have loved for many years. They are marketing this as The Elders Scrolls Online, not MMORPG #232323. They've tagged it with a hefty franchise title, which boosted sales and interests by a huge amount. But I think they sort of failed to live up to the expectations of the people who bought on for the reputation of the franchise.

And then as a MMORPG - it's very average for me. Honestly, if you strip away the "elder scrolls" part from the entire game, change the names in the story, it would still be an enjoyable MMORPG experience. I've yet to pinpoint any particular feature of this MMORPG that makes it stand out from the rest. Personally I think I will just get bored of it a few months after playing, just like every thing else.

And there's the problem.

On one side, you have many angry TES fans that are claiming blasphemy. On the other, you have a perfectly normal, enjoyable MMORPG - and no more.

And then there's the whole disaster that is NDA, and limited press content, and you make it incredibly easy to give this game bad press.

The game is 2 months away from launch. It still has a NDA in the face of many of the people who are actually enjoying the game and will be willing to speak to its defense, with evidence. Those people cannot say a single word.

The press was only allowed to review up to level 15 - most didn't even make it past level 10. The first 10 levels of the game has been said to be excruciatingly slow. This is NOT what you want to limit your reviews to. From what I've heard, the fun doesn't really start until after level 10, and even 15. You can't throw the worst and slowest part of your entire game at the press and expects raving reviews.

 

To be honest, I think the thing that's been hurting this game the most is the horrible PR that has been coming out of Zenimax. If this didn't have the popularity of the TES series floating it, the game would have fell off the radar already. And that's unfortunate, because it's an enjoyable MMORPG.

  aspekx

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/05
Posts: 2197

2/11/14 1:48:18 AM#79

i am personally not a fan of the game, for a number of reasons, but i have to admit while im not suspicious about the negative press i have become skeptical.

 

even as someone who will not be playing the game it's gotten a bit over the top. but i think there are historical reasons for that, part of which is certainly that a lot of folks have been burned over the last three years. so it's kind of a perfect storm of not meeting certain TES fan expectations combined with an overall cynicism (warranted or not).

 

as a sidenote however i would say that mmorpg.com has put forth some pretty positive reviews often corresponding to concerns voiced in the forums. (take that as you will.)

"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  gestalt11

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 6187

2/11/14 1:49:18 AM#80

Let me make this as clear as I can.

 

By and large the "media" do nothing but lie.  They do it by omission and comission and sometimes by out right making shit up.  They are just so willfully non-observant they don't even understand they are doing it.  It's not a lie if you believe it, Jerry.  Also many of them are just plain corrupt (either for money or ideaology, no difference there really.  Ideaology always comes back to money either yours or someone else's), probably most of them to some degree.

 

One of the biggest lies of the past 6 decades or so is that of a professionally trained to be objective press whose job is to provide you information.  This is a bald faced lie.  There is a reason many older newspapers in the US have names like "The [City] Democrat".  Its because before this trend they didn't feel like they needed to hide what everyone already knew.  That paper had certain loyalties.  Some papers portrayed themselves are more rounded but there were literally tons of newspapers all over the country that proclaimed their loyalties one way or the other.

 

And then slowly they all started to pretend to be fair or objective until there was a monolithic professional facade, yet we all still know one obvious fact.  They can't find an objective fact even if was glued to their asses and they are supposedly paid to find things out (hah good joke there, they are really paid to just talk about stuff.  Finding stuff out is for detectives dontchaknow.

 

The modern age of the internet is erroding this fakery.  Slowly but surely we are returning to ideas of a less modern time.  It is ironic that modern technology is just proving to restore something everyone took for granted as a fact 100 years ago.  By and large the press lies and does little else.

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